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Stamblade PVE sustain and heavy attacks on PTS [dps parses inside]

Dorrino
Dorrino
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After reading way too many posts claiming doom and gloom is coming with Morrowind, that pve is ruined and everybody's forced to Boring Heavy Attacks Meta (tm) with anecdotal evidences i finally decided test pve sustain myself:)

Specifically my aim was to verify 2 widespread claims:

1. We need to drastically change our gear setups in pve compared to live to sustain.

2. In any case new pve rotation will require using heavy attacks each 1-2 sec to sustain.

Test setup:

I decided to use CP allocation and most parts of gear setup from Gilliamtherogue's video since he's a well-known and respected member of pve community. The only difference is i used the new War Machine trial set instead of Vicious Ophidian, since pts templates are not equipped with the later (or i'm dumb and wasn't able to find it).

Major Slayer uptime from War Machine was 40-45% from using incap.

CP allocation was identical to Gilliamtherogue's (5:41) in the video.

Skills used were also identical Gilliamtherogue's setup in the video.

Rotation was focused on maintaining Poison Injection, Rearming Trap, Endless Hail, Anti-cavalry Caltrops, Rending Slashes and Major Breach on the target.

Keep in mind that template weapons are all precise, thus expect the parses to be lower than of a live character.

The character race was khajiit. Food used - max hp/max stam. Mundus - Thief.

The only stamina sustain skill used was Leeching Strikes.

The selfbuffed stats with weapon damage glyphs were:

0ekk9hgvsoi2.png

For each variation of gear setup i did 3 parses and chose the average one between the 3 results.

DISCLAIMER: i'm not the best pve player in the game. I did a lot of mistakes during the parses. Treat the results as your average trial dps parses. Not the best, not the worst. So you can expect me to mess up my rotation in a similar way between the parses:)

Now, to the results:

Setup #1, all wpd glyphs

First i did the runs with zero sustain setup. All glyphs were weapon damage:

sdj09wxb40vs.png

We can clearly see i needed 26 heavy attacks to sustain over the course of 196 seconds, which averages to roughly 1 heavy attack each 7-8 seconds.

Setup #2, 2 wpd glyphs, 1 stamina cost reduction glyph

This time i swapped one weapon damage glyph for a cost reduction glyph to see if i can reduce the number of heavy attacks required:

k84i57k8ikcm.png

Overall dps went down by approximately 3%, the number of heavy attacks didn't chance much though - 22 heavy attacks over 203 sec or 1 heavy attack each 9 seconds on average.

Setup #3, 2 wpd glyphs, 1 stamina recovery glyph

or7g4cg7zvn0.png

Here we finally start to see a difference. Dps is still 3% less than all wpd setup, but this time the number of heavy attacks is noticeably lower. 17 heavy attacks over 203 sec or 1 heavy attack each 12 seconds on average.

Setup #4, 1 wpd glyphs, 1 stamina recovery glyph, 1 cost reduction glyph

I parsed both 2 recovery glyphs and 1 recovery + 1 cost reduction glyph.

The results were similar, though 1 recovery + 1 cost reduction glyph felt easier to sustain:

w4s5yane09rz.png

Now that's the difference! I only needed 9 heavy attacks over the course of 204 seconds (~3.5 minutes) and overall dps was still within 3-3.5% range lower than all weapon damage glyphs setup.

9 heavy attacks over 204 seconds averages to 1 heavy attack each 22-23 seconds!

Conclusion:

1. As an average pve trials player by paying the cost of 3% less overall dps i was able to perfectly sustain myself with 1 heavy attack ~ each 20 seconds.

2. I still had a choice to increase my dps by a couple of % by drastically increasing the number of heavy attacks required.

3. Even in the worst case scenario i needed one heavy attack each 7-8 seconds which is far from Boring Heavy Attacks Meta (tm) people claim we're going to be stuck with.

4. I used the same meta pve setup people use on live with a variation in the form of the number of recovery and cost reduction glyphs used. The new set, War Machine does not provide any sustain benefits and thus couldn't skew the parse results in this aspect.

I don't know how typical stam nb example is, compared to other pve specs in this respect (heavy-to-light attack ratio), so i encourage you guys to provide your parses in this thread.

Cheers!

edit: completed vmsa using Test Setup 4 with vigor instead of trap. Really enjoyed the experience, all sustain problems were solved by an occasional heavy attack.
Edited by Dorrino on May 10, 2017 11:53PM
  • Draqone
    Draqone
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    That's great but in a trial setting you'll struggle to get a spot if you consider the fact that a magSorc can shield himself, stay 20 metres away from the boss and pull 40k DPS from that distance on top of all that.

    Ohh and yeah! I forgot a Sorc also provides a synergy and can do double your AoE damage.
    ESO Balance:
    “All skills are equal, but some skills are more equal than others.”
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  • Dorrino
    Dorrino
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    Draqone wrote: »
    That's great but in a trial setting you'll struggle to get a spot if you consider the fact that a magSorc can shield himself, stay 20 metres away from the boss and pull 40k DPS from that distance on top of all that.

    Ohh and yeah! I forgot a Sorc also provides a synergy and can do double your AoE damage.

    Mag sorcs are mushrooms in our little rock-paper-scissors game:)

    We don't talk about mag sorcs, but cry on ZOS's broad shoulder.
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  • Draqone
    Draqone
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    Bar me jumping on that bandwagon, those are some good numbers. Your rotation while maybe not perfect seems very stable and a good means to test.

    One thing you forgot to mention, Setup #2 and to some degree #3 and #4 have stamina drains higher or equal to stam recovery, whereas Setup #1 is easily sustainable. This will be important in trials where the fights last longer than 2 minutes, even significantly longer in weaker groups.
    ESO Balance:
    “All skills are equal, but some skills are more equal than others.”
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  • RoyJade
    RoyJade
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    With 5 VO instead of 5 war machine, I wonder if you can sustain better while doing even more damage. War machine bonus seem solid though, especially for the group synergy, but I think it will fit better on a mabglade.

    Thanks for the test and for the numbers, they bring hopes !
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  • Draqone
    Draqone
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    RoyJade wrote: »
    Thanks for the test and for the numbers, they bring hopes !

    Stamblades are one of the best selfbuffed DPS classes. The question never was "Can StamBlades do damage?" because they can easily on live, and should be able to after the changes. The question is, why do other classes do it better, easier and safer. :D

    ESO Balance:
    “All skills are equal, but some skills are more equal than others.”
    Options
  • Dorrino
    Dorrino
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    Draqone wrote: »
    Bar me jumping on that bandwagon, those are some good numbers. Your rotation while maybe not perfect seems very stable and a good means to test.

    One thing you forgot to mention, Setup #2 and to some degree #3 and #4 have stamina drains higher or equal to stam recovery, whereas Setup #1 is easily sustainable. This will be important in trials where the fights last longer than 2 minutes, even significantly longer in weaker groups.

    In Setup#1 most of the additional sustain comes from heavy attacks. And one of the main points of the post was to demonstrate sustainability without heavy reliance on heavy attacks (pun intended).
    RoyJade wrote: »
    With 5 VO instead of 5 war machine, I wonder if you can sustain better while doing even more damage. War machine bonus seem solid though, especially for the group synergy, but I think it will fit better on a mabglade.

    Thanks for the test and for the numbers, they bring hopes !

    Yep, VO would be better for the sustain, not sure about the damage though. 45% uptime of Major Slayer = 6.75% damage increase from a 5-set bonus.
    Draqone wrote: »
    Stamblades are one of the best selfbuffed DPS classes.

    Stamblades got hit very hard with syphonings nerf. I don't expect them (and magblades) to have better sustain than other classes anymore. You can see it clearly in the parses. Stam return from Leeching Strikes is the same as the direct stam return from the potion.
    Edited by Dorrino on May 10, 2017 7:38AM
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  • Draqone
    Draqone
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    What I meant about self buffed is the easy access to Major Fracture and Minor berserk. We get those anyway in a trial setting, and the fact we have access to them doesn't matter much in trials. So basically, a healers Minor Bersek and the tanks Major fracture are buffs to other classes, but not to a stamblade.

    As far as VO, I am pretty sure it's a better target skeleton parse set but a group Major Slay is what will make and break groups. :)
    Edited by Draqone on May 10, 2017 8:20AM
    ESO Balance:
    “All skills are equal, but some skills are more equal than others.”
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  • SirSocke
    SirSocke
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    Draqone wrote: »
    What I meant about self buffed is the easy access to Major Fracture and Minor berserk. We get those anyway in a trial setting, and the fact we have access to them doesn't matter much in trials. So basically, a healers Minor Bersek and the tanks Major fracture are buffs to other classes, but not to a stamblade.

    And that is the reason why everybody thinks stamblades are great. For real results every other class needs a tank applying Major Fracture and a healer applying Minor Berserk to the target. In this case only you can compare the numbers and you'll see that the other classes were much better.
    Bosmer stamina nightblade!
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  • Dorrino
    Dorrino
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    Draqone wrote: »
    What I meant about self buffed is the easy access to Major Fracture and Minor berserk. We get those anyway in a trial setting, and the fact we have access to them doesn't matter much in trials. So basically, a healers Minor Bersek and the tanks Major fracture are buffs to other classes, but not to a stamblade.

    This is most likely correct.

    The point of the parses wasn't to demonstrate that stamnbs have competitive dps, this is entirely another subject.

    The point was to use a stamnb as an example and demonstrate that Heavy Attacks Meta can be heavily mitigated without major dps losses.
    Edited by Dorrino on May 10, 2017 10:36PM
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