Are people going to complain until all fun is removed from this game ?

Khaos_Bane · May 2017

I swear the class skills and balance developers listen to the community too much, especially the streamers. We used to have more unique class defining abilities and they keep getting nerfed into oblivion (not a pun). These are the skills and abilities that actually make the game fun. Once a unique class defining ability is nerfed or made vanilla to match other skills this community moves onto the next one. I am so tired of it, now people are whining about the sorc. The sorc is a perfectly well balanced class that is very versatile and fun to play. Now the community is whining about that, it's unbelievable.

Do you want them to get nerfed to the point that they are boring to play like the MagBlabe? If the developers would actually make boring classes more fun and lift them to the level of sorc it would be much better. But we have devs that make classes more boring, more vanilla, and homogenize unique skills. Sometimes this community is just unbelievable.

Sorcs are fun to play, while other classes have gotten more homogenized. I can see Wrobel nuking the fun versatile sorc. Who does that? Seriously...

IronCrystal · May 2017

I wouldn't say sorcs are that balanced. Every raid I do has 4-6 of them as dps, and they pull some of the highest parses (magDK can pull higher but melee range).

Can't comment on PvP.

Khaos_Bane · May 2017

IronCrystal wrote: »

I wouldn't say sorcs are that balanced. Every raid I do has 4-6 of them as dps, and they pull some of the highest parses (magDK can pull higher but melee range).

Can't comment on PvP.

So what class do you feel should pull the highest DPS then? Sounds like you have an idea of what should be the highest DPS class.

Don't nerf the sorc, introduce more unique class skills to the other classes so people will be more enticed to play the.

Why would you want to make a fun class less fun? That makes no sense but I guess Zeni feels it makes sense. I would never make my game LESS fun if I was selling one.

Kay1 · May 2017

Versatile, well, I haven't changed my skills since they nerfed Trapping Webs.

Silver_Strider · May 2017

I posted this in another thread but the same applies here

Silver_Strider wrote: »

Fun is subjective.

As far as uniqueness goes, I'd argue that was lost a long time ago.

DK chains were copied in Swarm Mother and Talons is just a mildly better version of Encase.
Everyone could get a decent shield via Annulment and up until fairly recently, pets were a joke that no one wanted and most still don't out of the simple fact that, even if Pets aren't prioritized over players, they can and still do "steal" buffs.
Invisibility is a potion away and Vampirism sure made you vanish into stealth pretty damn quickly.
Lava Whip and Veiled Strike are practically the same move with the only differences between the 2 being fairly mild in nature (Fire Damage vs Magic damage, Knockdown vs Stun, etc.)
Grim Focus is only unique in it's methodology but as far as functionality goes, it's similar to Crystal Frags in that they both have a requirement before they can be used and do fairly considerable damage.
Lighting Form and Spiked Armor are fairly similar as well.
Jabs and Flurry
Daedric Curse and Magic Det.

The list goes on and while not the exact same move, the similarities are enough that it doesn't exactly make them feel unique anymore. Also, just because a skill is better than one another does not make it unique either. The only truly unique skill I can even remotely think of is Repentance and that's because there is currently no other skill that interacts with Dead Bodies, at least not yet anyways. The group stamina return is something that I don't classify as unique as a Master Resto can do that to, just not as effectively but again, better skill =/= unique.

Class Defining moves and Uniqueness are a myth in ESO. The only reason classes were even made was for the sake of making the game easier to balance and even then ZOS is having a hard time finding that balance. Imagine the outright horror show if you could get the defensive capabilities of a DK, Healing potency of a Templar, godly sustain of Sorcerer and Ultimate Regen of NBs all on 1 character. A single theorycrafter putting all the best pieces together would make the ultimate build that could not be matched and everyone would just copy it because the "Uniqueness be damned, I want to be the best" mentality trumps everything else in any game with competitive elements.

The fact that Sorc damage numbers are higher than all other classes, having the best blend of survivability, AoE and ranged damage as well as great sustain while all other classes also had their sustain tools gutted to trash is hardly fair, regardless of your personal feelings on the matter.

You say Sorcs are balanced but how exactly is excelling at everything when your competitors are all crippled "balanced". That's like allowing an Olympic Gold Medalist to compete in the Special Olympics and saying it's balanced.

DragonBound · May 2017

Khaos_Bane wrote: »

I swear the class skills and balance developers listen to the community too much, especially the streamers. We used to have more unique class defining abilities and they keep getting nerfed into oblivion (not a pun). These are the skills and abilities that actually make the game fun. Once a unique class defining ability is nerfed or made vanilla to match other skills this community moves onto the next one. I am so tired of it, now people are whining about the sorc. The sorc is a perfectly well balanced class that is very versatile and fun to play. Now the community is whining about that, it's unbelievable.

Do you want them to get nerfed to the point that they are boring to play like the MagBlabe? If the developers would actually make boring classes more fun and lift them to the level of sorc it would be much better. But we have devs that make classes more boring, more vanilla, and homogenize unique skills. Sometimes this community is just unbelievable.

Sorcs are fun to play, while other classes have gotten more homogenized. I can see Wrobel nuking the fun versatile sorc. Who does that? Seriously...

Exactly they are more versatile then any stamina class, if anything they need to make the stamina classes just as useful.

Wrekkedd · May 2017

Kay1 wrote: »

Versatile, well, I haven't changed my skills since they nerfed Trapping Webs.

HAHAHA, I laughed so hard when I read this. Exactly what I was going to say, well....they did start using pets so that could be it... xD

Tryxus · May 2017

Yeah, it's a helluva lot of fun when you're at the top of everything, amirite?

Saint_Bud · May 2017

You called it balance when a pve raid wants 6 sorcs, just 2 dks for chaining, no nb and maybee 1 templar, but sorc beats them all. And for some under NDA content it will be 8 sorcs for the best way. The next real problem with sorcs is the rotation is so simpl that also non good player can reach high numbers, but on other classes you must brocken your *** fingers to get the same. Were is ouer changes to make ouer rotatiin simplyer. In pvp they will nearfed healing, but not shilds and sorcs have a great damage boost from high lightning status effeckt uptime (8% more damage). Once DK were in that place and gets nearfed in to the ground but it is balnce when pet sorc make evry other class useless as a DD. And now they swing the nearfhammer to the set that evry other magicka dd is running beside a pet sorc.
Sry for bad eng

TheHsN · May 2017

this game will never be balanced cuz of there isnt any definiations of CLASSES...

DK: it is TANK class it hasbeen always TANK ...so it should not make damage as much as dps classes such as SORC AND NB
Templar: It is a HEALAR class... it should not make DPS as much as SORC and NB
NB it is a DPS class... It should not be a tank or healar
SORC always one of the best DPS class and it has been ALWAYS.. SO it should make more DPS than all of other classes.. it has to be awful as tank and healar ....

BUTTT NOOO...ZOS makes with any class can be anything as good as other one.... WITH THIS U CAN NEVER MAKE BALANCE IN GAME

IF u dont make definations of classes every body want everything and u cant make all as same as other one...

Elvenpath · May 2017

TheHsN wrote: »

this game will never be balanced cuz of there isnt any definiations of CLASSES...

DK: it is TANK class it hasbeen always TANK ...so it should not make damage as much as dps classes such as SORC AND NB
Templar: It is a HEALAR class... it should not make DPS as much as SORC and NB
NB it is a DPS class... It should not be a tank or healar
SORC always one of the best DPS class and it has been ALWAYS.. SO it should make more DPS than all of other classes.. it has to be awful as tank and healar ....

BUTTT NOOO...ZOS makes with any class can be anything as good as other one.... WITH THIS U CAN NEVER MAKE BALANCE IN GAME

IF u dont make definations of classes every body want everything and u cant make all as same as other one...

You are literaly joke right? Telling nb is a dps class. Why all parses higher than nb duh?

Idinuse · May 2017

Khaos_Bane wrote: »

IronCrystal wrote: »

I wouldn't say sorcs are that balanced. Every raid I do has 4-6 of them as dps, and they pull some of the highest parses (magDK can pull higher but melee range).

Can't comment on PvP.

So what class do you feel should pull the highest DPS then? Sounds like you have an idea of what should be the highest DPS class.

Don't nerf the sorc, introduce more unique class skills to the other classes so people will be more enticed to play the.

Why would you want to make a fun class less fun? That makes no sense but I guess Zeni feels it makes sense. I would never make my game LESS fun if I was selling one.

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/338778/joys-thoughts-on-templars-in-morrowind-they-just-arent-fun-anymore/p1

Have you heard about Templars? But I guess it's ok to make other classes less fun even no fun at all, but your own.

Very symptomatic for Sorcerers. You have to be on the top of the booyaa DD food chain no matter what, while keeping the best evasion and mobility and best shield usage in game coupled with top AoEs, extreme high Max Mag stacking, extreme high Spell Damage stacking extreme Resource Sustain, mag or stam including Dark Deal.

Every defence or explanation against a nerf has been exactly the same for Templars, every argument the same (l2p issues, only extremely good players produce this and this or it only happens to potato noob builds, plethora of counters and so on, but everyone insisted on nerfing the Class to the ground to the point it has no utility and no meaning. Far beyond the point of not being fun at all to play let alone useful. No particular heals advantages despite an entire class tree dedicated to it instead of buffs/debuffs and DD or utility skills, no speed, no reliable comparable burst, no sustained DPS, meh AoEs, no CCs at all, what is there are mockeries of CCs. Pretty much less of everything.

See how that feels?

Now. If Zos arguments for nerfing every class on top of the general sustain nerfs is to be consistent, they can't take away from everyone and leave the Sorcerers untouched. It would be hypocrisy, and that won't happen right? So after yapping for Templar nerfs everywhere, in every thread regardless of subject to the point of absurdity, now that Sorcerers are facing the same mob, suddenly all other classes should be buffed and made fun again instead of bringing Sorcerers "in balance" with everyone else ? Hyp...what's that word?

Oh, btw I'm currently leveling a new Sorcerer myself, so I'm certainly not biased.

I count on Sorc to still maintain the immune fav position. It's my insurance policy. Either they stay untouched by the nerf bat, good for me, or they get "balanced" to other classes, ok then I'll give up and go to the new golden child Warden. Or maybe even the joke class Templars and the 5,000 hours I invested in it might be worth the time and effort then after all. Who knows.

DHale · May 2017

Heavy attacking for 80 percent of the time is fun. Ok that is sarcasm, it's no bueno.

SnubbS · May 2017

Silver_Strider wrote: »

I posted this in another thread but the same applies here

Silver_Strider wrote: »

Fun is subjective.

As far as uniqueness goes, I'd argue that was lost a long time ago.

DK chains were copied in Swarm Mother and Talons is just a mildly better version of Encase.
Everyone could get a decent shield via Annulment and up until fairly recently, pets were a joke that no one wanted and most still don't out of the simple fact that, even if Pets aren't prioritized over players, they can and still do "steal" buffs.
Invisibility is a potion away and Vampirism sure made you vanish into stealth pretty damn quickly.
Lava Whip and Veiled Strike are practically the same move with the only differences between the 2 being fairly mild in nature (Fire Damage vs Magic damage, Knockdown vs Stun, etc.)
Grim Focus is only unique in it's methodology but as far as functionality goes, it's similar to Crystal Frags in that they both have a requirement before they can be used and do fairly considerable damage.
Lighting Form and Spiked Armor are fairly similar as well.
Jabs and Flurry
Daedric Curse and Magic Det.

The list goes on and while not the exact same move, the similarities are enough that it doesn't exactly make them feel unique anymore. Also, just because a skill is better than one another does not make it unique either. The only truly unique skill I can even remotely think of is Repentance and that's because there is currently no other skill that interacts with Dead Bodies, at least not yet anyways. The group stamina return is something that I don't classify as unique as a Master Resto can do that to, just not as effectively but again, better skill =/= unique.

Class Defining moves and Uniqueness are a myth in ESO. The only reason classes were even made was for the sake of making the game easier to balance and even then ZOS is having a hard time finding that balance. Imagine the outright horror show if you could get the defensive capabilities of a DK, Healing potency of a Templar, godly sustain of Sorcerer and Ultimate Regen of NBs all on 1 character. A single theorycrafter putting all the best pieces together would make the ultimate build that could not be matched and everyone would just copy it because the "Uniqueness be damned, I want to be the best" mentality trumps everything else in any game with competitive elements.

The fact that Sorc damage numbers are higher than all other classes, having the best blend of survivability, AoE and ranged damage as well as great sustain while all other classes also had their sustain tools gutted to trash is hardly fair, regardless of your personal feelings on the matter.

You say Sorcs are balanced but how exactly is excelling at everything when your competitors are all crippled "balanced". That's like allowing an Olympic Gold Medalist to compete in the Special Olympics and saying it's balanced.

I didn't read the rest of the post—but Encase is probably 4 or 5 times better than Talons—it's not even a question. There's not even a debate to be had here—Talons is easily the most overrated skill in Elder Scrolls. Ask a MagDK PvP main who's played the class longer than 5 hours.

CultOfMMO · May 2017

if you think people whining about sorc is unwarranted you're horribly delusional.

Sorcs are by far the most powerful class in Homestead PVE, and to certain extent in PVP too? not too familiar with that

Now that the nerf hammer seeks to wreck havoc in its wake, somehow sorcs miraculously survived with the least amount of nerfs in terms of class skills. Then they went ahead and nerfed the BSW which every mag class uses, while leaving necro, which is a sorc specific powerhouse.

Sounds bad enough on paper and it does also show through in practice, plenty of benchmark dps parses have been posted in PTS, and sorcs are blowing everyone out the water.

I'll admit I love to play w/e is flavour of the month and w/e is broken strong, but I could not care less what class it actually is. Matter of fact I'd love mNB to be the next OP, cuz I'm getting a little tired of my sorc.

with the exception to stam builds, all mag builds are pretty unique imo, very clear strengths and weaknesses. I think your issue is you LOVE your sorc, you MUST play sorc, and it just so happened that its broken OP and you're loving it.

TheHsN · May 2017

Elvenpath wrote: »

TheHsN wrote: »

this game will never be balanced cuz of there isnt any definiations of CLASSES...

DK: it is TANK class it hasbeen always TANK ...so it should not make damage as much as dps classes such as SORC AND NB
Templar: It is a HEALAR class... it should not make DPS as much as SORC and NB
NB it is a DPS class... It should not be a tank or healar
SORC always one of the best DPS class and it has been ALWAYS.. SO it should make more DPS than all of other classes.. it has to be awful as tank and healar ....

BUTTT NOOO...ZOS makes with any class can be anything as good as other one.... WITH THIS U CAN NEVER MAKE BALANCE IN GAME

IF u dont make definations of classes every body want everything and u cant make all as same as other one...

You are literaly joke right? Telling nb is a dps class. Why all parses higher than nb duh?

Man that is what i try to tell already..........

DjMuscleboy02 · May 2017

Is this a "please don't nerf sorcs, that's not fair" thread? I never thought I'd see one of these gems

drake88131 · May 2017

Agree with OP

Saint_Bud wrote: »

You called it balance when a pve raid wants 6 sorcs, just 2 dks for chaining, no nb and maybee 1 templar, but sorc beats them all. And for some under NDA content it will be 8 sorcs for the best way. The next real problem with sorcs is the rotation is so simpl that also non good player can reach high numbers, but on other classes you must brocken your *** fingers to get the same. Were is ouer changes to make ouer rotatiin simplyer. In pvp they will nearfed healing, but not shilds and sorcs have a great damage boost from high lightning status effeckt uptime (8% more damage). Once DK were in that place and gets nearfed in to the ground but it is balnce when pet sorc make evry other class useless as a DD. And now they swing the nearfhammer to the set that evry other magicka dd is running beside a pet sorc.
Sry for bad eng

He's not saying they are balanced he is saying the constant nerfs TO EVERYTHING is making the game not fun. I'm sure op would be all about buffing other classes so that everyone could have fun

Rinmaethodain · May 2017

Even if all the classes would be exactly same, heck players would have exactly same abilities, on exactly same toons with exactly same stats and equipment people would still complain about other players being OP and whatanot and demand to make everyones ping 300 by force so game is balanced.

Balamoor · May 2017

It's all just noise, the sad part is if the folks who complained wouldn't do it in such a unhinged way, the devs might actually stop and listen..but the perpetual whiners want the freak show more than they want change I guess

Shadow_Viper_vX · May 2017

It's always irritating when the developers listen to the vocal minority of crybabes that want them to make the game easier for them rather than Learning to Play so they can Adapt and Overcome

BigBragg · May 2017

Attempting to lay the balance blame at the feet of the community and/or streamers is misguided. It solely lies with the developers, and is headed by Wrobel. Every balance patch they do in this game leaves the forums a mess for a while, until a new meta surfaces, and everyone grinds for new gear. Rinse and repeat.

Fallen_Ray · May 2017

Games, even online games should be a non adjustable final product with patches only containing fixes for glitch & exploits. Modern gaming focuses too damn much on commentaries and critics of streamers, major pvpers, major dungeoneers, etc, etc, etc.

Then there's the community that actually backs those comments saying "yeah this needs a nerf ZOS buff that skill, nerf that class" Then the devs take a look and decide to adjust a skill effect of a class. And the unbalance starts.
For example:

Some major streamer says Class X can perform better dps if it has the duration of its AOE skill increased (duration 8 secs, 800 damg per tick), class Y has an AOE that does more damage (duration 7 secs, 1060 dmg per tick) in total with a difference of 1020 pts. Depending on the adjustment, lets say class X was buffed by increasing an AOE DOT effect by 60% of its original duration. Class X is going to outperform the other dps class Y with a difference of 2820.

That's just to set off the chain reaction. From there onward it's just buffs and nerfs with each update. In order to create a ""balance"" that was not needed. Just because the company decided to listen to some guy and his minion followers. To cut it short, it results in what we are experiencing classes that are nerfed to uselessness, classes that over-perform in damage regardless the playstyle, unkillable classes, classes that have infinite magicka or stamina classes that heal to 90% HP from 10% HP.

I really like this game. But the changes made lately and the ones that are to come have repelled me from thee game though I still have hope that all will turn out for the better I doubt it at the same time.

Saint_Bud · May 2017

drake88131 wrote: »

Agree with OP

Saint_Bud wrote: »

You called it balance when a pve raid wants 6 sorcs, just 2 dks for chaining, no nb and maybee 1 templar, but sorc beats them all. And for some under NDA content it will be 8 sorcs for the best way. The next real problem with sorcs is the rotation is so simpl that also non good player can reach high numbers, but on other classes you must brocken your *** fingers to get the same. Were is ouer changes to make ouer rotatiin simplyer. In pvp they will nearfed healing, but not shilds and sorcs have a great damage boost from high lightning status effeckt uptime (8% more damage). Once DK were in that place and gets nearfed in to the ground but it is balnce when pet sorc make evry other class useless as a DD. And now they swing the nearfhammer to the set that evry other magicka dd is running beside a pet sorc.
Sry for bad eng

He's not saying they are balanced he is saying the constant nerfs TO EVERYTHING is making the game not fun. I'm sure op would be all about buffing other classes so that everyone could have fun

I never wanted a balanced game for pvp, i think classes should have pro and contras, that means that some classes would have advantage to several classes and negatives to others. Once this was the case, but nearly all this skills how give a advantage in some case are nearft in the ground or just usefull on a troll build.

For pve all classes should be usefull in a raid, not just one. On live some classes are only playes because you need them like DK for chaining in the 2nd mol boss ( know there is taktic where tank can make this) or because the player master his class so good that he can keep up with a pet sorc. They should bring the dps gab in line and the inly 2 options for that is nearfing the one how performs much better or buffing the others. Last will be hard for pvp balance.

I understand that player how play the op class hate nearfs, but when all other classes are useless it will be not good for the game health. Just remember the perma standart or bats spamming dk at the beginn (pc launch) who fights alone against bad zerg groups and pull about 1/3 more dps in pve.

LadyLavina · May 2017

Yes and then they'll accuse ZOS of making a bad game, which they absolutely did not.

Khaos_Bane · May 2017

Idinuse wrote: »

Khaos_Bane wrote: »

IronCrystal wrote: »

I wouldn't say sorcs are that balanced. Every raid I do has 4-6 of them as dps, and they pull some of the highest parses (magDK can pull higher but melee range).

Can't comment on PvP.

So what class do you feel should pull the highest DPS then? Sounds like you have an idea of what should be the highest DPS class.

Don't nerf the sorc, introduce more unique class skills to the other classes so people will be more enticed to play the.

Why would you want to make a fun class less fun? That makes no sense but I guess Zeni feels it makes sense. I would never make my game LESS fun if I was selling one.

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/338778/joys-thoughts-on-templars-in-morrowind-they-just-arent-fun-anymore/p1

Have you heard about Templars? But I guess it's ok to make other classes less fun even no fun at all, but your own.

Very symptomatic for Sorcerers. You have to be on the top of the booyaa DD food chain no matter what, while keeping the best evasion and mobility and best shield usage in game coupled with top AoEs, extreme high Max Mag stacking, extreme high Spell Damage stacking extreme Recourse Sustain, mag or stam including Dark Deal.

Every defence or explanation against a nerf has been exactly the same for Templars, every argument the same (l2p issues, only extremely good players produce this and this or it only happens to potato noob builds, plethora of counters and so on, but everyone insisted on nerfing the Class to the ground to the point it has no utility and no meaning. Far beyond the point of not being fun at all to play let alone useful. No particular heals advantages despite an entire class tree dedicated to it instead of buffs/debuffs and DD or utility skills, no speed, no reliable comparable burst, no sustained DPS, meh AoEs, no CCs at all, what is there are a mockeries of CCs. Pretty much less of everything.

See how that feels?

Now. If Zos arguments for nerfing every class on top of the general sustain nerfs is to be consistent, they can't take away from everyone and leave the Sorcerers untouched. It would be hypocrisy, and that won't happen right? So after yapping for Templar nerfs everywhere, in every thread regardless of subject to the point of absurdity, now that Sorcerers are facing the same mob, suddenly all other classes should be buffed and made fun again instead of bringing Sorcerers "in balance" with everyone else ? Hyp...what's that word?

Oh, btw I'm currently leveling a new Sorcerer myself, so I'm certainly not biased. I count on Sorc to still maintain the immune fav position. It's my insurance policy. Either they stay untouched by the nerf bat, good for me, or they get "balanced" to other classes, ok then I'll give up and go to the new golden child Warden. Or maybe even the joke class Templars and the 5,000 hours I invested in it might be worth the time and effort then after all. Who knows.

First of all, yes I do know, my favorite class to play since release has been the Templar and still is the Templar. I am sick and tired of @Wrobel making this game more boring. People like @FENGRUSH whined and whined and whined about Templars and they saw nerf after nerf after nerf and @Wrobel has nearly eliminated all uniqueness. Look at the amount of useless skills the Templar has now.

This is exactly what I don't want to happen to any classes, including the Sorc. I'm not playing sides like you, I want all classes to be more fun but that is NOT the way this game is going. This game is becoming more vanilla and boring as time goes on and it has everything to do with the classes.

Buff other classes to be more fun by giving them unique skills instead of nerfing classes and making @Wrobel boring because people whine on the community forum or @FENGRUSH throws a fit on his stream because he can't kill someone fast enough with his STAM sorc. The classes are going into the crapper with such a fantastic game.

Khaos_Bane · May 2017

CultOfMMO wrote: »

if you think people whining about sorc is unwarranted you're horribly delusional.

Sorcs are by far the most powerful class in Homestead PVE, and to certain extent in PVP too? not too familiar with that

Now that the nerf hammer seeks to wreck havoc in its wake, somehow sorcs miraculously survived with the least amount of nerfs in terms of class skills. Then they went ahead and nerfed the BSW which every mag class uses, while leaving necro, which is a sorc specific powerhouse.

Sounds bad enough on paper and it does also show through in practice, plenty of benchmark dps parses have been posted in PTS, and sorcs are blowing everyone out the water.

I'll admit I love to play w/e is flavour of the month and w/e is broken strong, but I could not care less what class it actually is. Matter of fact I'd love mNB to be the next OP, cuz I'm getting a little tired of my sorc.

with the exception to stam builds, all mag builds are pretty unique imo, very clear strengths and weaknesses. I think your issue is you LOVE your sorc, you MUST play sorc, and it just so happened that its broken OP and you're loving it.

Yeah you completely missed the point. I play Templar Healer and DK Tank primarily, I have all classes leveled and know what is fun and isn't. @Wrobel has made the Templar MUCH more boring and I do not want to see that happen with ANY class. I want this game to be fun and see the developers get creative with the classes, which hasn't been happening.

flizomica · May 2017

I wouldn't really say sorc is balanced cuz most score runs have like 6 of them in the group.

Think one of the problems with endgame PvE is that there's no reason to ever run anything with less dps because more dps = more skipped mechanics = ez clear. It's just the way stuff was designed with hard enrages (zhaj pillars running out) and soft enrages (too many twins adds to deal with).

Hopefully that'll change with how HoF was designed with a greater focus on mechanics, not DPS.

Grabmoore · May 2017

Khaos_Bane wrote: »

CultOfMMO wrote: »

if you think people whining about sorc is unwarranted you're horribly delusional.

Sorcs are by far the most powerful class in Homestead PVE, and to certain extent in PVP too? not too familiar with that

Now that the nerf hammer seeks to wreck havoc in its wake, somehow sorcs miraculously survived with the least amount of nerfs in terms of class skills. Then they went ahead and nerfed the BSW which every mag class uses, while leaving necro, which is a sorc specific powerhouse.

Sounds bad enough on paper and it does also show through in practice, plenty of benchmark dps parses have been posted in PTS, and sorcs are blowing everyone out the water.

I'll admit I love to play w/e is flavour of the month and w/e is broken strong, but I could not care less what class it actually is. Matter of fact I'd love mNB to be the next OP, cuz I'm getting a little tired of my sorc.

with the exception to stam builds, all mag builds are pretty unique imo, very clear strengths and weaknesses. I think your issue is you LOVE your sorc, you MUST play sorc, and it just so happened that its broken OP and you're loving it.

Yeah you completely missed the point. I play Templar Healer and DK Tank primarily, I have all classes leveled and know what is fun and isn't. @Wrobel has made the Templar MUCH more boring and I do not want to see that happen with ANY class. I want this game to be fun and see the developers get creative with the classes, which hasn't been happening.

...but Sorc have a boring playstyle. Their rotation is easy, in fact so easy that I could so a drunk leaderboard run . Tested this, never succeeded while trying this on my main. In PvP streaking away is a valid playstyle, so is camping in mines. Thats no fun...

You should of made a "buff others" thread instead of this one, than I would of agreed.

Khaos_Bane · May 2017

Grabmoore wrote: »

Khaos_Bane wrote: »

CultOfMMO wrote: »

if you think people whining about sorc is unwarranted you're horribly delusional.

Sorcs are by far the most powerful class in Homestead PVE, and to certain extent in PVP too? not too familiar with that

Now that the nerf hammer seeks to wreck havoc in its wake, somehow sorcs miraculously survived with the least amount of nerfs in terms of class skills. Then they went ahead and nerfed the BSW which every mag class uses, while leaving necro, which is a sorc specific powerhouse.

Sounds bad enough on paper and it does also show through in practice, plenty of benchmark dps parses have been posted in PTS, and sorcs are blowing everyone out the water.

I'll admit I love to play w/e is flavour of the month and w/e is broken strong, but I could not care less what class it actually is. Matter of fact I'd love mNB to be the next OP, cuz I'm getting a little tired of my sorc.

with the exception to stam builds, all mag builds are pretty unique imo, very clear strengths and weaknesses. I think your issue is you LOVE your sorc, you MUST play sorc, and it just so happened that its broken OP and you're loving it.

Yeah you completely missed the point. I play Templar Healer and DK Tank primarily, I have all classes leveled and know what is fun and isn't. @Wrobel has made the Templar MUCH more boring and I do not want to see that happen with ANY class. I want this game to be fun and see the developers get creative with the classes, which hasn't been happening.

...but Sorc have a boring playstyle. Their rotation is easy, in fact so easy that I could so a drunk leaderboard run . Tested this, never succeeded while trying this on my main. In PvP streaking away is a valid playstyle, so is camping in mines. Thats no fun...

You should of made a "buff others" thread instead of this one, than I would of agreed.

All rotation's are easy, the Mageblade being the most annoying and clunky, which it shouldn't be. The sorc plays very smoothly and is still unique, though not as unique as it used to be.

Time to stop nerfing the fun, make class skills great again @Wrobel

FENGRUSH · May 2017

Khaos_Bane wrote: »

Idinuse wrote: »

Khaos_Bane wrote: »

IronCrystal wrote: »

I wouldn't say sorcs are that balanced. Every raid I do has 4-6 of them as dps, and they pull some of the highest parses (magDK can pull higher but melee range).

Can't comment on PvP.

So what class do you feel should pull the highest DPS then? Sounds like you have an idea of what should be the highest DPS class.

Don't nerf the sorc, introduce more unique class skills to the other classes so people will be more enticed to play the.

Why would you want to make a fun class less fun? That makes no sense but I guess Zeni feels it makes sense. I would never make my game LESS fun if I was selling one.

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/338778/joys-thoughts-on-templars-in-morrowind-they-just-arent-fun-anymore/p1

Have you heard about Templars? But I guess it's ok to make other classes less fun even no fun at all, but your own.

Very symptomatic for Sorcerers. You have to be on the top of the booyaa DD food chain no matter what, while keeping the best evasion and mobility and best shield usage in game coupled with top AoEs, extreme high Max Mag stacking, extreme high Spell Damage stacking extreme Recourse Sustain, mag or stam including Dark Deal.

Every defence or explanation against a nerf has been exactly the same for Templars, every argument the same (l2p issues, only extremely good players produce this and this or it only happens to potato noob builds, plethora of counters and so on, but everyone insisted on nerfing the Class to the ground to the point it has no utility and no meaning. Far beyond the point of not being fun at all to play let alone useful. No particular heals advantages despite an entire class tree dedicated to it instead of buffs/debuffs and DD or utility skills, no speed, no reliable comparable burst, no sustained DPS, meh AoEs, no CCs at all, what is there are a mockeries of CCs. Pretty much less of everything.

See how that feels?

Now. If Zos arguments for nerfing every class on top of the general sustain nerfs is to be consistent, they can't take away from everyone and leave the Sorcerers untouched. It would be hypocrisy, and that won't happen right? So after yapping for Templar nerfs everywhere, in every thread regardless of subject to the point of absurdity, now that Sorcerers are facing the same mob, suddenly all other classes should be buffed and made fun again instead of bringing Sorcerers "in balance" with everyone else ? Hyp...what's that word?

Oh, btw I'm currently leveling a new Sorcerer myself, so I'm certainly not biased. I count on Sorc to still maintain the immune fav position. It's my insurance policy. Either they stay untouched by the nerf bat, good for me, or they get "balanced" to other classes, ok then I'll give up and go to the new golden child Warden. Or maybe even the joke class Templars and the 5,000 hours I invested in it might be worth the time and effort then after all. Who knows.

First of all, yes I do know, my favorite class to play since release has been the Templar and still is the Templar. I am sick and tired of @Wrobel making this game more boring. People like @FENGRUSH whined and whined and whined about Templars and they saw nerf after nerf after nerf and @Wrobel has nearly eliminated all uniqueness. Look at the amount of useless skills the Templar has now.

This is exactly what I don't want to happen to any classes, including the Sorc. I'm not playing sides like you, I want all classes to be more fun but that is NOT the way this game is going. This game is becoming more vanilla and boring as time goes on and it has everything to do with the classes.

Buff other classes to be more fun by giving them unique skills instead of nerfing classes and making @Wrobel boring because people whine on the community forum or @FENGRUSH throws a fit on his stream because he can't kill someone fast enough with his STAM sorc. The classes are going into the crapper with such a fantastic game.

I didnt realize you were having so much fun holding block and spamming breath of life from the start to the end of the fight.