Resource management on live vs pts

JiKama · May 2017

So on live even with siphoning strikes I still lack resource management. I run outta stam so fast even trying to weave in a few AA's and Heavy AA's. Granted I'm running Pure crit/Weapon damage. I may swap to bone pirate or Hiricines. Ive read so much doom and gloom about resource management on the pts. I'm just curious about some other thoughts/opinions.

Aquanova · May 2017

Stand by for the heavy attack meta. As of 3.0.2 it's inevitable.

Peekachu99 · May 2017

JiKama wrote: »

So on live even with siphoning strikes I still lack resource management. I run outta stam so fast even trying to weave in a few AA's and Heavy AA's. Granted I'm running Pure crit/Weapon damage. I may swap to bone pirate or Hiricines. Ive read so much doom and gloom about resource management on the pts. I'm just curious about some other thoughts/opinions.

I've highlighted the issue for you. Also, as an experiment, I'm running my magblade destro VMA farmer with 15% regen, NO cost reduction and 4 lich/ 5 destruction mastery and I'm having absolutely no issue with resources or trials on live. 2300 regen, 2600 if I change the drink. More magika than I can spend and if I ever run out I swap to a fifth lich.

Clever sets, builds and resource management are the way forward, and I'm positive they will adjust the content difficulty (as they've done before with Trials and ICP) if the completion rates are abysmal. I can't talk too much about PTS, but your damage goes up with the new CP allocation, you just need to plan for resource management.

DjMuscleboy02 · May 2017

Peekachu99 wrote: »

JiKama wrote: »

So on live even with siphoning strikes I still lack resource management. I run outta stam so fast even trying to weave in a few AA's and Heavy AA's. Granted I'm running Pure crit/Weapon damage. I may swap to bone pirate or Hiricines. Ive read so much doom and gloom about resource management on the pts. I'm just curious about some other thoughts/opinions.

I've highlighted the issue for you. Also, as an experiment, I'm running my magblade destro VMA farmer with 15% regen, NO cost reduction and 4 lich/ 5 destruction mastery and I'm having absolutely no issue with resources or trials on live. 2300 regen, 2600 if I change the drink. More magika than I can spend and if I ever run out I swap to a fifth lich.

Clever sets, builds and resource management are the way forward, and I'm positive they will adjust the content difficulty (as they've done before with Trials and ICP) if the completion rates are abysmal. I can't talk too much about PTS, but your damage goes up with the new CP allocation, you just need to plan for resource management.

Completion rates won't be abysmal. Good groups won't have a problem, it's the people who are learning and trying to progress that will struggle. Now the better (more experienced) players will have an even tougher time teaching new players mechanics as well, that's the problem.

JiKama · May 2017

So for stamblade what are some good sets to use?? As far as resources go? Hulking Draugr? Bone pirate? Hiricines?

Dantaria · May 2017

Peekachu99 wrote: »

I can't talk too much about PTS, but your damage goes up with the new CP allocation, you just need to plan for resource management.

You can talk about it. The NDA is lifted for existing classes.

And it's not true. From personally my experience on PTS, CP now matter more than they did, so the gap becomes larger rather than smaller. If we talk about trial perspective.

I'm magsorc with 400CP. Here is the deal for trials. Esse, alpha-version

The best result I managed to achieve on Target Skeleton was still with using Blockade of Storms and Exploiter passive. The problem with it is that they changed the impact of CP. Thaumaturgy in total makes your DoTs stronger on 25%. You make it to 23% already on 40 points. Everything else is a huge waste. However. You need 75 in that tree for Exploiter. 35CP - into nothing. Because if you're magsorc your only choice in that tree is Thaumaturgy.

If you're not maxed out char, you have too few points left for Elfborn and Elemental Expert. So few that you don't make it to current live numbers.

And, as I said, the best result I managed to achieve was with Exploiter. Not using it only leads to DPS loss. (btw, "best result" being -4k DPS

).

Still. Let's for example, take Exploiter out of the picture.

Before you only needed some CP to make decent numbers in Elemental Expert and Elfborn. Maybe throw something in Thaumaturgy. And you could do fine. Now? Now you also have Master-At-Arms.

[btw]At the same time good and bad news: don't bother with Staff Expert. This star is useless. 40 points in it don't even give 1k to Heavy Attacks. Actually, from where I stand, purely HA builds are impossible, the damage is too damn low and nothing, not even maxing out Staff Expert and wearing full Elegance will fix it[/btw]

As a result you know need even more CPs. Because you now have more stars which require 35+ CPs. And that's only if Exploiter will underperform, which is, for now, doubtful.

For Exploiter to underperform you need your whole raid to go into HA builds. I don't see it now. As I said, HA underperforms. This strategy is bad. HA still remains the last resort.

So. 75 points in Thaumaturgy. 35 points hugely wasted, great. And then...

You're not maxed out? Ooooops. Too bad for you. You don't have enough points for other stars.

***

That's just my experience with PTS for now. I'm not elite, I don't run cookie-cutter build, I'm "upper casual" who runs vet Trials with guildies for fun.

If ZoS wanted the game to be easier for the likes of me... For now, guys, it seems like you miserably failing :'(

Peekachu99 · May 2017

Dantaria wrote: »

Peekachu99 wrote: »

I can't talk too much about PTS, but your damage goes up with the new CP allocation, you just need to plan for resource management.

You can talk about it. The NDA is lifted for existing classes.

And it's not true. From personally my experience on PTS, CP now matter more than they did, so the gap becomes larger rather than smaller. If we talk about trial perspective.

I'm magsorc with 400CP. Here is the deal for trials. Esse, alpha-version

The best result I managed to achieve on Target Skeleton was still with using Blockade of Storms and Exploiter passive. The problem with it is that they changed the impact of CP. Thaumaturgy in total makes your DoTs stronger on 25%. You make it to 23% already on 40 points. Everything else is a huge waste. However. You need 75 in that tree for Exploiter. 35CP - into nothing. Because if you're magsorc your only choice in that tree is Thaumaturgy.

If you're not maxed out char, you have too few points left for Elfborn and Elemental Expert. So few that you don't make it to current live numbers.

And, as I said, the best result I managed to achieve was with Exploiter. Not using it only leads to DPS loss. (btw, "best result" being -4k DPS ).

Still. Let's for example, take Exploiter out of the picture.

Before you only needed some CP to make decent numbers in Elemental Expert and Elfborn. Maybe throw something in Thaumaturgy. And you could do fine. Now? Now you also have Master-At-Arms.

[btw]At the same time good and bad news: don't bother with Staff Expert. This star is useless. 40 points in it don't even give 1k to Heavy Attacks. Actually, from where I stand, purely HA builds are impossible, the damage is too damn low and nothing, not even maxing out Staff Expert and wearing full Elegance will fix it[/btw]

As a result you know need even more CPs. Because you now have more stars which require 35+ CPs. And that's only if Exploiter will underperform, which is, for now, doubtful.

For Exploiter to underperform you need your whole raid to go into HA builds. I don't see it now. As I said, HA underperforms. This strategy is bad. HA still remains the last resort.

So. 75 points in Thaumaturgy. 35 points hugely wasted, great. And then...

You're not maxed out? Ooooops. Too bad for you. You don't have enough points for other stars.

***

That's just my experience with PTS for now. I'm not elite, I don't run cookie-cutter build, I'm "upper casual" who runs vet Trials with guildies for fun.

If ZoS wanted the game to be easier for the likes of me... For now, guys, it seems like you miserably failing :'(

Except investing 1/2 way into a node gives you 75% of the FULL BENEFIT. So your 400 CP dude has better potential allocation than he did before. You DO NOT max out in 3.0. It's useless when those 50 points could get you 75% of a bonus in something else. Also, Vet trials are made--or ideal--for max CP characters. What competetive raiders even run guilds with people under CP cap? I can't think of any, unless they're pity runs, or CP lowered for skins (if you can still do that--been a while). I'm pretty sure that's intended. You also need to state what gear and configuration you're using, as I have, before declaring something "not true". It is true, for my 1:1 PTS copy character that I am doing more damage to target skeletons or otherwise.

And until they fix the whole grouping/ LFG interface the people harping on about a raiding scene really need to chill. Competetive raiding in this game is bottom-tier compared to every other game. ZoS need to fix their social tools, first and foremost. That's what we should all be rallying for.

Universe · May 2017

Resource management *live* vs *pts*= Heaven vs Hell.
ZOS went too far and the resource management in Morrowind will be very difficult.

Dantaria · May 2017

I... I don't even... Can you read?

Peekachu99 wrote: »

Except investing 1/2 way into a node gives you 75% of the FULL BENEFIT. So your 400 CP dude has better potential allocation than he did before. You DO NOT max out in 3.0.

Exploiter passive. Do I need to stress it out? EXPOITER PASSIVE. Which requires 75 points in Ritual tree. And the only useful star here for magsorc (and probably all mag chars) is Thaumaturgy. And Exploiter passive is still your best bet in terms of DPS.

Comprehensible?

Peekachu99 wrote: »

Also, Vet trials are made--or ideal--for max CP characters. What competetive raiders even run guilds with people under CP cap? I can't think of any, unless they're pity runs, or CP lowered for skins (if you can still do that--been a while). I'm pretty sure that's intended.

What? What?!

Vet trials are not made for 600CP players. Things are not supposed to be that way.

Competitive runs for leaderboard? Yes. But you do realize that people also run it... for fun? Because there is such a content in the game? So... "Trials are for 600CP, farm Skyreach or gtfo" is fine for you? It's a good design and policy?

What's next? Vet Dungeons also are for 600CP only?

I'm... I'm done. That's... I have no words.

Dantaria · May 2017

Yeah, btw.

Peekachu99 wrote: »

You also need to state what gear and configuration you're using, as I have, before declaring something "not true". It is true, for my 1:1 PTS copy character that I am doing more damage to target skeletons or otherwise.

Fair enough.

400CP, magsorc, 5 Julianos + 2 Ilambris + 4 Infallible Aether. All golden. As I said, I'm "upper-casual" who is allergic to grinding

Live DPS - 28k. It's a good DPS. I'm not the one for vet HM trial runs or competitive runs. But vet Trials with guildies? Totally ok. I was even allowed into vMoL progression group. We are not expecting to make it through easy. But my DPS is enough to be a member of the team, not an outright carry.

PTS DPS - 24k. With the same chugging Tri-stat potions (Major Sorcery, Major Prophecy, Restore Magicka) on cooldown and whatsnot. It's still decent DPS. But... But. Okay for just completing Craglorn Trials. Definitely not okay for vMoL. And I probably would opt out from vCoAII, vICP, vRoM and vWGT runs... Especially HM.

EDITED: wrong use of terminology, sorry

Asardes · May 2017

You probably meant crafted major sorcery pots. Tristat pots are the ones that restore all 3 stats and they are used only by tank in PvE.

Dantaria · May 2017

Asardes wrote: »

You probably meant crafted major sorcery pots. Tristat pots are the ones that restore all 3 stats and they are used only by tank in PvE.

Yes, very sorry! I meant "Tri-effect": Major Prophecy buff, Major Sorcery buff and restore Magicka. I can screw up terminology sometimes, thanks for correction!

STEVIL · May 2017

DjMuscleboy02 wrote: »

Peekachu99 wrote: »

JiKama wrote: »

So on live even with siphoning strikes I still lack resource management. I run outta stam so fast even trying to weave in a few AA's and Heavy AA's. Granted I'm running Pure crit/Weapon damage. I may swap to bone pirate or Hiricines. Ive read so much doom and gloom about resource management on the pts. I'm just curious about some other thoughts/opinions.

I've highlighted the issue for you. Also, as an experiment, I'm running my magblade destro VMA farmer with 15% regen, NO cost reduction and 4 lich/ 5 destruction mastery and I'm having absolutely no issue with resources or trials on live. 2300 regen, 2600 if I change the drink. More magika than I can spend and if I ever run out I swap to a fifth lich.

Clever sets, builds and resource management are the way forward, and I'm positive they will adjust the content difficulty (as they've done before with Trials and ICP) if the completion rates are abysmal. I can't talk too much about PTS, but your damage goes up with the new CP allocation, you just need to plan for resource management.

Completion rates won't be abysmal. Good groups won't have a problem, it's the people who are learning and trying to progress that will struggle. Now the better (more experienced) players will have an even tougher time teaching new players mechanics as well, that's the problem.

Are you aware that they (zos) may even have competion rates on all the groups trying and rates - not just the best ones? I think that could possibly be the case. in which case, if a block of folks currently running them and failing starts failing the rates will drop and if that percentage is noticable it will be able to be adjusted for.

then again, if good and experienced groups make it, not just maelstrom equipped golden gods, then maybe the success rates wont drop but the tactics will... away from screw mechanics burn thrus to beat mechanics slower.

Dantaria · May 2017

STEVIL wrote: »

Are you aware that they (zos) may even have competion rates on all the groups trying and rates - not just the best ones? I think that could possibly be the case. in which case, if a block of folks currently running them and failing starts failing the rates will drop and if that percentage is noticable it will be able to be adjusted for.

then again, if good and experienced groups make it, not just maelstrom equipped golden gods, then maybe the success rates wont drop but the tactics will... away from screw mechanics burn thrus to beat mechanics slower.

I sure hope they will adjust PvE. Things are sad for now

BTW )) "burning through mechanics" is a myth, guys. The only mechanic you actually can burn through is Rakkhat Lunar Phase. Idk where did you take it from, people.

In vAA you still have to run to runes on the 1st boss. DPS doesn't matter, you phisically can't avoid it. And so on and so forth. Warror will still jump and throw his shield. Serpent will teleport, cast AoE and summon Manticora. Lamia will pin your teammates. You can't avoid it.

Only Lunar Phase. And I still think about Twins in vMoL. People prefer to burn them before 4 + 4 adds phase. I'm not sure if it was indeed intended as a indirect DPS-check (surviving 8 adds is damn hard) or it is the actual mechanics. As in your group is supposed to learn how to survive several waves of 8 adds.

Alcast · May 2017

Aquanova wrote: »

Stand by for the heavy attack meta. As of 3.0.2 it's inevitable.

wrong

WarpigFunk · May 2017

Dantaria wrote: »

STEVIL wrote: »

Are you aware that they (zos) may even have competion rates on all the groups trying and rates - not just the best ones? I think that could possibly be the case. in which case, if a block of folks currently running them and failing starts failing the rates will drop and if that percentage is noticable it will be able to be adjusted for.

then again, if good and experienced groups make it, not just maelstrom equipped golden gods, then maybe the success rates wont drop but the tactics will... away from screw mechanics burn thrus to beat mechanics slower.

I sure hope they will adjust PvE. Things are sad for now

BTW )) "burning through mechanics" is a myth, guys. The only mechanic you actually can burn through is Rakkhat Lunar Phase. Idk where did you take it from, people.

In vAA you still have to run to runes on the 1st boss. DPS doesn't matter, you phisically can't avoid it. And so on and so forth. Warror will still jump and throw his shield. Serpent will teleport, cast AoE and summon Manticora. Lamia will pin your teammates. You can't avoid it.

Only Lunar Phase. And I still think about Twins in vMoL. People prefer to burn them before 4 + 4 adds phase. I'm not sure if it was indeed intended as a indirect DPS-check (surviving 8 adds is damn hard) or it is the actual mechanics. As in your group is supposed to learn how to survive several waves of 8 adds.

To be fair ... with the requisite group optimisation there's skippable mechanics in basically every trial.

Top boss in Helra - like the whole thing- he can be killed in like 20 seconds.
Lunar on Rakkhat (non-hm)
most, if not all of the add mechanics on DSA last boss
Varlariel in AA you can all but ignore the splits besides throwing a few beams and ultis at them and kill her after the second split.
Theoretically you could skip pink bubbles on Serpent hm- not sure if it's been done though.

Dantaria · May 2017

WarpigFunk wrote: »

To be fair ... with the requisite group optimisation there's skippable mechanics in basically every trial.

Top boss in Helra - like the whole thing- he can be killed in like 20 seconds.

How the?.. TEACH ME SENPAI!

Seriously though. How?

WarpigFunk wrote: »

Varlariel in AA you can all but ignore the splits besides throwing a few beams and ultis at them and kill her after the second split.

You're still kinda not ignoring it

Huge DPS makes things easier, it always does. But go into full-blown "ignore copies"? Nah

WarpigFunk wrote: »

Theoretically you could skip pink bubbles on Serpent hm- not sure if it's been done though.

Very great effort required. You can skip bubbles, ok, but... It's godly 0.01% playerbase DPS

We, simple mortals, don't even dream about it

WarpigFunk · May 2017

Dantaria wrote: »

WarpigFunk wrote: »

To be fair ... with the requisite group optimisation there's skippable mechanics in basically every trial.

Top boss in Helra - like the whole thing- he can be killed in like 20 seconds.

How the?.. TEACH ME SENPAI! Seriously though. How?

WarpigFunk wrote: »

Varlariel in AA you can all but ignore the splits besides throwing a few beams and ultis at them and kill her after the second split.

You're still kinda not ignoring it Huge DPS makes things easier, it always does. But go into full-blown "ignore copies"? Nah

WarpigFunk wrote: »

Theoretically you could skip pink bubbles on Serpent hm- not sure if it's been done though.

Very great effort required. You can skip bubbles, ok, but... It's godly 0.01% playerbase DPS We, simple mortals, don't even dream about it

Top Boss:

1 tank w/ deep breath, 1 healer with BoL on his lightning staff bar, 4 DPS all lightning staffs
Boss spawns - ulti dump, full rotation DPS
Adds spawn - Tank pulls all 4 mobs to one location (usually small room doorway, or area where you enetered) calls out real boss.
Everyone else targets the enemy closest to the boss, shields up, Lightning heavy attack the add. When it dies, you go the add on the other side of the boss and heavy attack. Once all adds are down, full rotation/ execute on the boss.
Boss takes like 2 million DPS + ... and often dies on the first add rotation, if not he'll be at 10-20% hp and will die on the next one. Whole fight should take no more than 20 seconds - 1 minute.

And yea Varlariel if you watch vids of the 150k + score runs you'll see most Groups don't ever really pull dps off the boss - when the first adds split, you just quickly drop ultis on them and templars throw some jesus beams, but everyone stays focused on boss. Same with 2nd split. By the third split you're just executing boss. Group never moves from it's position around the boss, and stays focusing DPS on boss. You're still getting the splits yea, but with enough burn you can basically ignore them.

I agree that it's only a very small % of the player base that benefits from the requisite group optimisation, to burn through these mechanics - I was merely pointing out that mechanic skipping isn't necessarily a myth - it's essentially a fixture of the highest leaderboard runs in the game - and there are technically skippable mechanics in every trial (not every fight)- even if skipping them is not feasible for 90%+ of the players encountering them.

Dantaria · May 2017

WarpigFunk wrote: »

Top Boss:

1 tank w/ deep breath, 1 healer with BoL on his lightning staff bar, 4 DPS all lightning staffs
Boss spawns - ulti dump, full rotation DPS
Adds spawn - Tank pulls all 4 mobs to one location (usually small room doorway, or area where you enetered) calls out real boss.
Everyone else targets the enemy closest to the boss, shields up, Lightning heavy attack the add. When it dies, you go the add on the other side of the boss and heavy attack. Once all adds are down, full rotation/ execute on the boss.
Boss takes like 2 million DPS + ... and often dies on the first add rotation, if not he'll be at 10-20% hp and will die on the next one. Whole fight should take no more than 20 seconds - 1 minute.

Aha! So tank and stack! Thanks a lot, got it

WarpigFunk wrote: »

I agree that it's only a very small % of the player base that benefits from the requisite group optimisation, to burn through these mechanics - I was merely pointing out that mechanic skipping isn't necessarily a myth - it's essentially a fixture of the highest leaderboard runs in the game - and there are technically skippable mechanics in every trial (not every fight)- even if skipping them is not feasible for 90%+ of the players encountering them.

Ok, I stand corrected, thanks

But it's still far from "OMG EVERYONE JUST BURNS THROUGH" people are using as an argument, when it comes to new changes. Those who struggled will still strugle. Those who burned through... Well... Mild inconveniece maybe

idk · May 2017

First I'd suggest cost reduction glyphs on jewelry to start with and see how that goes. But yes, the sustain is extremely different.

WarpigFunk · May 2017

Giles.floydub17_ESO wrote: »

First I'd suggest cost reduction glyphs on jewelry to start with and see how that goes. But yes, the sustain is extremely different.

That would go a long way towards ameliorating the sustain changes - however, it also reduces your typical magdps build's spell power by a whopping 522, assuming your changing out glyphs on all 3 jewelry pieces. So DPS drops off precipitously either way.

IronCrystal · May 2017

Peekachu99 wrote: »

Dantaria wrote: »

Peekachu99 wrote: »

I can't talk too much about PTS, but your damage goes up with the new CP allocation, you just need to plan for resource management.

You can talk about it. The NDA is lifted for existing classes.

And it's not true. From personally my experience on PTS, CP now matter more than they did, so the gap becomes larger rather than smaller. If we talk about trial perspective.

I'm magsorc with 400CP. Here is the deal for trials. Esse, alpha-version

The best result I managed to achieve on Target Skeleton was still with using Blockade of Storms and Exploiter passive. The problem with it is that they changed the impact of CP. Thaumaturgy in total makes your DoTs stronger on 25%. You make it to 23% already on 40 points. Everything else is a huge waste. However. You need 75 in that tree for Exploiter. 35CP - into nothing. Because if you're magsorc your only choice in that tree is Thaumaturgy.

If you're not maxed out char, you have too few points left for Elfborn and Elemental Expert. So few that you don't make it to current live numbers.

And, as I said, the best result I managed to achieve was with Exploiter. Not using it only leads to DPS loss. (btw, "best result" being -4k DPS ).

Still. Let's for example, take Exploiter out of the picture.

Before you only needed some CP to make decent numbers in Elemental Expert and Elfborn. Maybe throw something in Thaumaturgy. And you could do fine. Now? Now you also have Master-At-Arms.

[btw]At the same time good and bad news: don't bother with Staff Expert. This star is useless. 40 points in it don't even give 1k to Heavy Attacks. Actually, from where I stand, purely HA builds are impossible, the damage is too damn low and nothing, not even maxing out Staff Expert and wearing full Elegance will fix it[/btw]

As a result you know need even more CPs. Because you now have more stars which require 35+ CPs. And that's only if Exploiter will underperform, which is, for now, doubtful.

For Exploiter to underperform you need your whole raid to go into HA builds. I don't see it now. As I said, HA underperforms. This strategy is bad. HA still remains the last resort.

So. 75 points in Thaumaturgy. 35 points hugely wasted, great. And then...

You're not maxed out? Ooooops. Too bad for you. You don't have enough points for other stars.

***

That's just my experience with PTS for now. I'm not elite, I don't run cookie-cutter build, I'm "upper casual" who runs vet Trials with guildies for fun.

If ZoS wanted the game to be easier for the likes of me... For now, guys, it seems like you miserably failing :'(

Except investing 1/2 way into a node gives you 75% of the FULL BENEFIT. So your 400 CP dude has better potential allocation than he did before. You DO NOT max out in 3.0. It's useless when those 50 points could get you 75% of a bonus in something else. Also, Vet trials are made--or ideal--for max CP characters. What competetive raiders even run guilds with people under CP cap? I can't think of any, unless they're pity runs, or CP lowered for skins (if you can still do that--been a while). I'm pretty sure that's intended. You also need to state what gear and configuration you're using, as I have, before declaring something "not true". It is true, for my 1:1 PTS copy character that I am doing more damage to target skeletons or otherwise.

And until they fix the whole grouping/ LFG interface the people harping on about a raiding scene really need to chill. Competetive raiding in this game is bottom-tier compared to every other game. ZoS need to fix their social tools, first and foremost. That's what we should all be rallying for.

Well, I'll admit it's pretty rare for non-cp capped players to be doing top end raids, but I'll tell you the #1 vSO score in PC NA had a cp 489 healer :P

GrigorijMalahevich · May 2017

Dantaria wrote: »

Peekachu99 wrote: »

I can't talk too much about PTS, but your damage goes up with the new CP allocation, you just need to plan for resource management.

You can talk about it. The NDA is lifted for existing classes.

And it's not true. From personally my experience on PTS, CP now matter more than they did, so the gap becomes larger rather than smaller. If we talk about trial perspective.

I'm magsorc with 400CP. Here is the deal for trials. Esse, alpha-version

The best result I managed to achieve on Target Skeleton was still with using Blockade of Storms and Exploiter passive. The problem with it is that they changed the impact of CP. Thaumaturgy in total makes your DoTs stronger on 25%. You make it to 23% already on 40 points. Everything else is a huge waste. However. You need 75 in that tree for Exploiter. 35CP - into nothing. Because if you're magsorc your only choice in that tree is Thaumaturgy.

If you're not maxed out char, you have too few points left for Elfborn and Elemental Expert. So few that you don't make it to current live numbers.

And, as I said, the best result I managed to achieve was with Exploiter. Not using it only leads to DPS loss. (btw, "best result" being -4k DPS ).

Still. Let's for example, take Exploiter out of the picture.

Before you only needed some CP to make decent numbers in Elemental Expert and Elfborn. Maybe throw something in Thaumaturgy. And you could do fine. Now? Now you also have Master-At-Arms.

[btw]At the same time good and bad news: don't bother with Staff Expert. This star is useless. 40 points in it don't even give 1k to Heavy Attacks. Actually, from where I stand, purely HA builds are impossible, the damage is too damn low and nothing, not even maxing out Staff Expert and wearing full Elegance will fix it[/btw]

As a result you know need even more CPs. Because you now have more stars which require 35+ CPs. And that's only if Exploiter will underperform, which is, for now, doubtful.

For Exploiter to underperform you need your whole raid to go into HA builds. I don't see it now. As I said, HA underperforms. This strategy is bad. HA still remains the last resort.

So. 75 points in Thaumaturgy. 35 points hugely wasted, great. And then...

You're not maxed out? Ooooops. Too bad for you. You don't have enough points for other stars.

***

That's just my experience with PTS for now. I'm not elite, I don't run cookie-cutter build, I'm "upper casual" who runs vet Trials with guildies for fun.

If ZoS wanted the game to be easier for the likes of me... For now, guys, it seems like you miserably failing :'(

Magsorc with 400cp should be able to pull 30-33k DPS in necro, moondancer, vma lightning sharp, illambris, but probably if you are comparing live to pts on 400cp, then yes maybe you will lose DPS due to low ele expert and elfborn, but do not forget about master of arms new cp - you can ignore concussion and exploiter and go for master of arms and inferno staves or something...

WarpigFunk · May 2017

I dont have capped CP - and my primary focus in the game is end game PvE content.

See signature.

ADarklore · May 2017

Every time I read these threads I can't help but point out, the ONLY players that will have a problem with the sustain changes are 'End Game' players who are already a minority in ESO anyway. The majority of players, solo questers, delves, public/group dungeons, these players will all be fine. Already on Live I've taken all CP points out of Cost Reduction, reduced regen to 15%, remove a point from both armor passives... and I can still perform just as well without them... of course I am now running three Cost Reduction glyphs in jewelry too.

However, this is also without having the ability to put points into the NEW constellations coming with Morrowind, which should also help increase my damage output.

Let's also consider one of my non-typical builds, a BOSMER Magicka Nightblade Vampire is doing perfectly fine in the above mentioned content with these self-imposed pre-Morrowind nerfs. I don't care about 'End Game' and neither does ZOS apparently, because these upcoming changes impact them the most... but for those of us who play ESO for the questing, we'll be perfectly fine.

sadownik · May 2017

@ADarklore I also didnt run much endgame content when i was still playing regulary but on pts i do feel changes and how... Yes i still can do over-world content, yes delves and public dungeons too. But i just dont see pugging with my not-so-good equipment veteran dungeons for example. And combat does get more static.

Dantaria · May 2017

Valera Progib wrote: »

Magsorc with 400cp should be able to pull 30-33k DPS in necro, moondancer, vma lightning sharp, illambris, but probably if you are comparing live to pts on 400cp, then yes maybe you will lose DPS due to low ele expert and elfborn, but do not forget about master of arms new cp - you can ignore concussion and exploiter and go for master of arms and inferno staves or something...

No. You cannot.

Okay, guys. Here comes some science

Setup: 5 Julianos + 4 IA + 2 Ilambris. All golden. Full Spell Damage enchantment.

Exploiter passive (75 into Thaumaturgy), Live DPS: http://imgur.com/G133zv2. Solid 28k DPS. Nice? Nice!

Now. Let's go to PTS.

Assuming that setup doesn't change.

1) First option, nothing changes: Exploiter passive, what's left goes to Elfborn and Elemental Expert.
15 Elfborn, 42 Elemental Expert: http://imgur.com/a/voaPm
http://imgur.com/a/Jwhd7
75 Thaumaturgy: http://imgur.com/a/DHmHM

Result: http://imgur.com/a/lj5pP

As I said. -4k DPS.

2) Second option, let's try Master-At-Arms. And Fire blockade:
25 Elfborn, 42 Elemental Expert: http://imgur.com/a/nRtsz
55 Master-At-Arms: http://imgur.com/a/rJEIU
10 Thaumaturgy: http://imgur.com/a/uaO5O

Result: http://imgur.com/a/RCZlz

21k. -7k DPS.

So let me repeat myself: EXPLOITER STILL ROCKS.

But yes. You also need Master-At-Arms. Therefore - for magchars the gap between "low-CP" and "maxed-out" chars grows even larger.

And yes, yes, yes. I can (and I will) try Cost Reduction glyphs. I can do anything. But nothing is going to give me back my 4k DPS.

***

ADarklore wrote: »

Every time I read these threads I can't help but point out, the ONLY players that will have a problem with the sustain changes are 'End Game' players who are already a minority in ESO anyway. The majority of players, solo questers, delves, public/group dungeons, these players will all be fine. Already on Live I've taken all CP points out of Cost Reduction, reduced regen to 15%, remove a point from both armor passives... and I can still perform just as well without them... of course I am now running three Cost Reduction glyphs in jewelry too.

However, this is also without having the ability to put points into the NEW constellations coming with Morrowind, which should also help increase my damage output.

Let's also consider one of my non-typical builds, a BOSMER Magicka Nightblade Vampire is doing perfectly fine in the above mentioned content with these self-imposed pre-Morrowind nerfs. I don't care about 'End Game' and neither does ZOS apparently, because these upcoming changes impact them the most... but for those of us who play ESO for the questing, we'll be perfectly fine.

Than please tell me... WHY?! Why has that been done in the first place?

It hasn't been done for "elite" - they are not happy. It hasn't been done for "upper casuals" like me - we are not happy. It hasn't been done for total casuals - for questing it honestly doesn't matter.

Then. Why?

STEVIL · May 2017

Dantaria wrote: »

WarpigFunk wrote: »

Top Boss:

1 tank w/ deep breath, 1 healer with BoL on his lightning staff bar, 4 DPS all lightning staffs
Boss spawns - ulti dump, full rotation DPS
Adds spawn - Tank pulls all 4 mobs to one location (usually small room doorway, or area where you enetered) calls out real boss.
Everyone else targets the enemy closest to the boss, shields up, Lightning heavy attack the add. When it dies, you go the add on the other side of the boss and heavy attack. Once all adds are down, full rotation/ execute on the boss.
Boss takes like 2 million DPS + ... and often dies on the first add rotation, if not he'll be at 10-20% hp and will die on the next one. Whole fight should take no more than 20 seconds - 1 minute.

Aha! So tank and stack! Thanks a lot, got it

WarpigFunk wrote: »

I agree that it's only a very small % of the player base that benefits from the requisite group optimisation, to burn through these mechanics - I was merely pointing out that mechanic skipping isn't necessarily a myth - it's essentially a fixture of the highest leaderboard runs in the game - and there are technically skippable mechanics in every trial (not every fight)- even if skipping them is not feasible for 90%+ of the players encountering them.

Ok, I stand corrected, thanks

But it's still far from "OMG EVERYONE JUST BURNS THROUGH" people are using as an argument, when it comes to new changes. Those who struggled will still strugle. Those who burned through... Well... Mild inconveniece maybe

immediately after your hyperbole is outted coming back with renewed complaints about other folks hyperbole... nice!

Dantaria · May 2017

STEVIL wrote: »

immediately after your hyperbole is outted coming back with renewed complaints about other folks hyperbole... nice!

Wasn't a hyperbole. Was an honest mistake

Honestly didn't know you could easily burn through 2nd-up boss in vHR and pink balls. We never came even close and on those "elite" videos I watched people still ran to balls. And still killed copies - though ok, yeah, was easier for them than for us obviously.

One cannot know all, guilty as charged

Resource management on *live* vs *pts*

Resource management on live vs pts