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Dark exchange does not need a 8k heal tool tip
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Feanor✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭So, mSorc should have no good class heal then? (and don't even begin to argue surge and matriarch are reliable heals)Main characters: Feanor the Believer - AD Altmer mSorc - AR 50 - Flawless Conqueror (PC EU)Idril Arnanor - AD Altmer mSorc - CP 217 - Stormproof (PC NA)Other characters:Necrophilius Killgood - DC Imperial NecromancerFearscales - AD Argonian Templar - Stormproof (healer)Draco Imperialis - AD Imperial DK (tank)Cabed Naearamarth - AD Dunmer mDKValirion Willowthorne - AD Bosmer stamBladeTuruna - AD Altmer magBladeKheled Zaram - AD Redguard stamDKKibil Nala - AD Redguard stamSorc - StormproofYavanna Kémentárí - AD Breton magWardenAzog gro-Ghâsh - EP Orc stamWardenVidar Drakenblød - DC Nord mDKMarquis de Peyrac - DC Breton mSorc - StormproofRawlith Khaj'ra - AD Khajiit stamWardenTu'waccah - AD Redguard StamplarAll chars 50 @ CP 1900+. Playing and enjoying PvP with RdK mostly on PC EU.0 -
Draqone✭✭✭✭tinbromide wrote: »Maybe they left dark exchange in place as a goal and will bring the other classes sustain skills back up to it?
Man, I can't believe I got through that with a straight face...
There, have an "Awesome".ESO Balance:
“All skills are equal, but some skills are more equal than others.”2 -
Onefrkncrzypope✭✭✭✭✭
✭So, mSorc should have no good class heal then? (and don't even begin to argue surge and matriarch are reliable heals)
Other than Stam sorc, what Stam class has a reliable class heal? The stamplar at least needs dead bodies. Oh yeah it got nerfed... So yeah tell me why mSorc has 2 class heals, the best shield, best mobility, and best burst??? Dude surge is all I need for a flawless vMA run. But yeah not reliable, it freaking crits...-Immortal Redeemer-
-Extinguisher of Flames-
-Gryphon Heart-
-Potato-
If I edited a post, it was for spelling. It is always because of spelling....2 -
Feanor✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭For PvE I agree. Surge is not bad there. For PvP? Not so much.Main characters: Feanor the Believer - AD Altmer mSorc - AR 50 - Flawless Conqueror (PC EU)Idril Arnanor - AD Altmer mSorc - CP 217 - Stormproof (PC NA)Other characters:Necrophilius Killgood - DC Imperial NecromancerFearscales - AD Argonian Templar - Stormproof (healer)Draco Imperialis - AD Imperial DK (tank)Cabed Naearamarth - AD Dunmer mDKValirion Willowthorne - AD Bosmer stamBladeTuruna - AD Altmer magBladeKheled Zaram - AD Redguard stamDKKibil Nala - AD Redguard stamSorc - StormproofYavanna Kémentárí - AD Breton magWardenAzog gro-Ghâsh - EP Orc stamWardenVidar Drakenblød - DC Nord mDKMarquis de Peyrac - DC Breton mSorc - StormproofRawlith Khaj'ra - AD Khajiit stamWardenTu'waccah - AD Redguard StamplarAll chars 50 @ CP 1900+. Playing and enjoying PvP with RdK mostly on PC EU.0 -
sly007✭✭✭✭So a 1 second cast heal should heal for less than an instant cast heal ?
Of course not. But like I said, dark exchange was not meant to be a heal. And and for the comparison to rally, rally can not use used twice for the same heal. You need to wait around 12 seconds or so for the big heal to be ready.2 -
Chilly-McFreeze✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭So a 1 second cast heal should heal for less than an instant cast heal ?
Of course not. But like I said, dark exchange was not meant to be a heal. And and for the comparison to rally, rally can not use used twice for the same heal. You need to wait around 12 seconds or so for the big heal to be ready.
How do you know that?2 -
Izaki✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭I do not understand why this skill and it's morphs heals so much. I have healed for 6k in cyrodiil. That's a non crit rally heal. Dark exchange is a sustain skill which i am fine with but the burst heal is too strong.
Reducing the heal tool tip to 4k instead of 8k would be reasonable. The player will still receive some sought of heal but the skills will not be a source of both burst heal and burst sustain simultaneously. Any thoughts on this?
I don't see how you got a 6k heal in Cyrodiil because the skill is not affected by any modifiers at all. Not Healing Received or Healing Done, not Spell/Weapon Damage, not Spell/Weapon Cirt not Max Stamina/Magicka. The maximum heal you can get is 50% of the tooltip value.@ Izaki #PCEU
#FrenchKiss #GoneFor2YearsAndMyGuildDoesn'tRaidAnymore
#MoreDPSthanYou
#Stamblade1 -
sly007✭✭✭✭Chilly-McFreeze wrote: »So a 1 second cast heal should heal for less than an instant cast heal ?
Of course not. But like I said, dark exchange was not meant to be a heal. And and for the comparison to rally, rally can not use used twice for the same heal. You need to wait around 12 seconds or so for the big heal to be ready.
How do you know that?
Because sorcerers have surge to heal. Healing on a sorceror was never an issue. Infact, stamina sorcerer and magicka sorcerer the easiest time in vma because of strong shields strong heals from surge.1 -
Chilly-McFreeze✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭Chilly-McFreeze wrote: »So a 1 second cast heal should heal for less than an instant cast heal ?
Of course not. But like I said, dark exchange was not meant to be a heal. And and for the comparison to rally, rally can not use used twice for the same heal. You need to wait around 12 seconds or so for the big heal to be ready.
How do you know that?
Because sorcerers have surge to heal. Healing on a sorceror was never an issue. Infact, stamina sorcerer and magicka sorcerer the easiest time in vma because of strong shields strong heals from surge.
@sly007
How does vma performance contribute to the issue you have with dark exchange healing in PvP?
Healing get's cut in half + most people don't run high crit chances in cyro.
And why do you think surge should be the only "viable" heal source a sorc has in his class lines?
Edit: - every class has multiple skills to heal. Why do you think it's necessary to strip sorcs from an channeled on-demand heal and narrow them down to only 1 class heal?
Also, how do you get 6k heals in PvP from it?Edited by Chilly-McFreeze on May 8, 2017 12:23PM4 -
Biro123✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭Chilly-McFreeze wrote: »Chilly-McFreeze wrote: »So a 1 second cast heal should heal for less than an instant cast heal ?
Of course not. But like I said, dark exchange was not meant to be a heal. And and for the comparison to rally, rally can not use used twice for the same heal. You need to wait around 12 seconds or so for the big heal to be ready.
How do you know that?
Because sorcerers have surge to heal. Healing on a sorceror was never an issue. Infact, stamina sorcerer and magicka sorcerer the easiest time in vma because of strong shields strong heals from surge.
@sly007
How does vma performance contribute to the issue you have with dark exchange healing in PvP?
Healing get's cut in half + most people don't run high crit chances in cyro.
And why do you think surge should be the only "viable" heal source a sorc has in his class lines?
Also, how do you get 6k heals in PvP from it?
Exactly. Its up to the Devs to decide what an ability is *meant* to do. The fact that it has a sizeable heal component means that it quite obviously WAS meant to be a heal. Its like saying that Surprise Attack wasn't *meant* to do damage because nightblade has a number of other abilities that do damage...
Minalan owes me a beer.
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Minie Mo - Stam/Magblade - DC
Woody Ron - Stamplar - DC
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Notadorf - Stamsorc - DC
Khattman Doo - Stamblade - Relegated to Crafter, cos AD.5 -
sly007✭✭✭✭Chilly-McFreeze wrote: »Chilly-McFreeze wrote: »So a 1 second cast heal should heal for less than an instant cast heal ?
Of course not. But like I said, dark exchange was not meant to be a heal. And and for the comparison to rally, rally can not use used twice for the same heal. You need to wait around 12 seconds or so for the big heal to be ready.
How do you know that?
Because sorcerers have surge to heal. Healing on a sorceror was never an issue. Infact, stamina sorcerer and magicka sorcerer the easiest time in vma because of strong shields strong heals from surge.
@sly007
How does vma performance contribute to the issue you have with dark exchange healing in PvP?
Healing get's cut in half + most people don't run high crit chances in cyro.
And why do you think surge should be the only "viable" heal source a sorc has in his class lines?
Edit: - every class has multiple skills to heal. Why do you think it's necessary to strip sorcs from an channeled on-demand heal and narrow them down to only 1 class heal?
Also, how do you get 6k heals in PvP from it?
It does get bonuses from heal modifier.
1 -
Darlon✭✭✭✭✭Chilly-McFreeze wrote: »Chilly-McFreeze wrote: »So a 1 second cast heal should heal for less than an instant cast heal ?
Of course not. But like I said, dark exchange was not meant to be a heal. And and for the comparison to rally, rally can not use used twice for the same heal. You need to wait around 12 seconds or so for the big heal to be ready.
How do you know that?
Because sorcerers have surge to heal. Healing on a sorceror was never an issue. Infact, stamina sorcerer and magicka sorcerer the easiest time in vma because of strong shields strong heals from surge.
@sly007
Edit: - every class has multiple skills to heal. Why do you think it's necessary to strip sorcs from an channeled on-demand heal and narrow them down to only 1 class heal?
I think the next thing the OP will suggest is removing/changing all skills with a healing component from the Templar skill line except for 1.2 -
Chilly-McFreeze✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭Chilly-McFreeze wrote: »Chilly-McFreeze wrote: »So a 1 second cast heal should heal for less than an instant cast heal ?
Of course not. But like I said, dark exchange was not meant to be a heal. And and for the comparison to rally, rally can not use used twice for the same heal. You need to wait around 12 seconds or so for the big heal to be ready.
How do you know that?
Because sorcerers have surge to heal. Healing on a sorceror was never an issue. Infact, stamina sorcerer and magicka sorcerer the easiest time in vma because of strong shields strong heals from surge.
@sly007
How does vma performance contribute to the issue you have with dark exchange healing in PvP?
Healing get's cut in half + most people don't run high crit chances in cyro.
And why do you think surge should be the only "viable" heal source a sorc has in his class lines?
Edit: - every class has multiple skills to heal. Why do you think it's necessary to strip sorcs from an channeled on-demand heal and narrow them down to only 1 class heal?
Also, how do you get 6k heals in PvP from it?
It does get bonuses from heal modifier.
Cp also? Why shouldn't buffs have an effect to d/e?
If you buff up or invest cp heavily into these modifiers, why shouldn't they effect the heal? Is there something that justifies otherwise?
Or is it because you think this skill is just to strong? Which could lead this discussion in a somewhat more productive direction. But then again, there are a dozend threads out there discussing ideas on how to tone down d/e without trashing it.0 -
sly007✭✭✭✭Chilly-McFreeze wrote: »Chilly-McFreeze wrote: »Chilly-McFreeze wrote: »So a 1 second cast heal should heal for less than an instant cast heal ?
Of course not. But like I said, dark exchange was not meant to be a heal. And and for the comparison to rally, rally can not use used twice for the same heal. You need to wait around 12 seconds or so for the big heal to be ready.
How do you know that?
Because sorcerers have surge to heal. Healing on a sorceror was never an issue. Infact, stamina sorcerer and magicka sorcerer the easiest time in vma because of strong shields strong heals from surge.
@sly007
How does vma performance contribute to the issue you have with dark exchange healing in PvP?
Healing get's cut in half + most people don't run high crit chances in cyro.
And why do you think surge should be the only "viable" heal source a sorc has in his class lines?
Edit: - every class has multiple skills to heal. Why do you think it's necessary to strip sorcs from an channeled on-demand heal and narrow them down to only 1 class heal?
Also, how do you get 6k heals in PvP from it?
It does get bonuses from heal modifier.
Cp also? Why shouldn't buffs have an effect to d/e?
If you buff up or invest cp heavily into these modifiers, why shouldn't they effect the heal? Is there something that justifies otherwise?
Or is it because you think this skill is just to strong? Which could lead this discussion in a somewhat more productive direction. But then again, there are a dozend threads out there discussing ideas on how to tone down d/e without trashing it.
I don't have a problem with it being affected by modifiers. I don't have a problem with the stamina or magicka return. The issue is the strength of the healing component attached to the sustain.1 -
Mumyo✭✭✭✭✭I do not understand why this skill and it's morphs heals so much. I have healed for 6k in cyrodiil. That's a non crit rally heal. Dark exchange is a sustain skill which i am fine with but the burst heal is too strong.
Reducing the heal tool tip to 4k instead of 8k would be reasonable. The player will still receive some sought of heal but the skills will not be a source of both burst heal and burst sustain simultaneously. Any thoughts on this?
Warden has even stronger options
He has something more reliable than Rally and something healing stronger than Dark Exchange.
The main issue i see is that Templars and DKs must stick with the expensive vigor and without major mending, having no escape option at the same time.
Warden gets Major Mending and awesome heals and the Sorc can compete with that.
So if u wanna be able to stand alone u have to pick NB, Sorc or Warden, the others will have a tough time, even though they are frontliners. Those are my concerns regarding this.4 -
MrBrandon✭✭✭I do not understand why this skill and it's morphs heals so much. I have healed for 6k in cyrodiil. That's a non crit rally heal. Dark exchange is a sustain skill which i am fine with but the burst heal is too strong.
Reducing the heal tool tip to 4k instead of 8k would be reasonable. The player will still receive some sought of heal but the skills will not be a source of both burst heal and burst sustain simultaneously. Any thoughts on this?
I've healed for 11k on rally before. ZOS please nerf that. PVP will be the death of this game.2 -
Izanagi.Xiiib16_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭I was just looking back to the Dark Brotherhood patch notes where this ability got buffed..:
Dark Exchange: Increased the amount of resources gained from this ability and its morphs: Health by 100%, Stamina and Magicka by 75%.
Before then, this simply was not used at all. In fact Stamsorcs just weren't used. Just seems to me that all the nerf threads for this just want it back how it was - and the class back how it was - ie. non-existant.
Actually both stam sorcs and dark exchange were used. Stam sorcs had some of the strongest stam AoE in pvp raids and combined with the utility of negate they were actually incredibly good. The main population didn't use them because this wasn't widely known.
Also back then regen wasn't so much of an issue because retreating maneuvers stayed on healers all the time.
Now stam sorcs are effectively a must have in pvp and far out perform any other stam class. Mainly due to dark deal being ridiculously OP.
But let's pretend not so they don't get nerfed like all the other classes right?Edited by Izanagi.Xiiib16_ESO on May 8, 2017 1:04PM@Solar_Breeze
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Chilly-McFreeze✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭Chilly-McFreeze wrote: »Chilly-McFreeze wrote: »Chilly-McFreeze wrote: »So a 1 second cast heal should heal for less than an instant cast heal ?
Of course not. But like I said, dark exchange was not meant to be a heal. And and for the comparison to rally, rally can not use used twice for the same heal. You need to wait around 12 seconds or so for the big heal to be ready.
How do you know that?
Because sorcerers have surge to heal. Healing on a sorceror was never an issue. Infact, stamina sorcerer and magicka sorcerer the easiest time in vma because of strong shields strong heals from surge.
@sly007
How does vma performance contribute to the issue you have with dark exchange healing in PvP?
Healing get's cut in half + most people don't run high crit chances in cyro.
And why do you think surge should be the only "viable" heal source a sorc has in his class lines?
Edit: - every class has multiple skills to heal. Why do you think it's necessary to strip sorcs from an channeled on-demand heal and narrow them down to only 1 class heal?
Also, how do you get 6k heals in PvP from it?
It does get bonuses from heal modifier.
Cp also? Why shouldn't buffs have an effect to d/e?
If you buff up or invest cp heavily into these modifiers, why shouldn't they effect the heal? Is there something that justifies otherwise?
Or is it because you think this skill is just to strong? Which could lead this discussion in a somewhat more productive direction. But then again, there are a dozend threads out there discussing ideas on how to tone down d/e without trashing it.
I don't have a problem with it being affected by modifiers. I don't have a problem with the stamina or magicka return. The issue is the strength of the healing component attached to the sustain.
It's an interruptable channel. 1s + can't quickly barswap afterwards. It should be strong. Only issue I see with this is that it doesn't costs resources if it gets interrupted. But then again, I don't know if any cast-time-skill costs res if it get's interrupted (e.g. dark flare).2 -
sly007✭✭✭✭I do not understand why this skill and it's morphs heals so much. I have healed for 6k in cyrodiil. That's a non crit rally heal. Dark exchange is a sustain skill which i am fine with but the burst heal is too strong.
Reducing the heal tool tip to 4k instead of 8k would be reasonable. The player will still receive some sought of heal but the skills will not be a source of both burst heal and burst sustain simultaneously. Any thoughts on this?
I've healed for 11k on rally before. ZOS please nerf that. PVP will be the death of this game.
Yea, an 11k rally critical heal that cannot heal as much several times within a few seconds. Even the dragon knight coagulating blood needs to be low hp and crit for heals comparable to rally.1 -
technohic✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭I think I am finally tired of the debate. I don't want to level any more classes and my magsorc is about done. I'm kind of tired how gutted the classes wind up being. They are getting close to where no ones class feels powerful and that is not good for the health of the game IMO. Makes them all boring.1 -
CyrusArya✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭If this is anywhere remotely close to being a concern, its on stam sorc which already has excellent healing and uses the magicka pool as a resource dump. The heal, and really the skill itself, is not too overpowered on a magicka sorc where running out of stamina is a death spell.2 -
Biro123✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭Izanagi.Xiiib16_ESO wrote: »I was just looking back to the Dark Brotherhood patch notes where this ability got buffed..:
Dark Exchange: Increased the amount of resources gained from this ability and its morphs: Health by 100%, Stamina and Magicka by 75%.
Before then, this simply was not used at all. In fact Stamsorcs just weren't used. Just seems to me that all the nerf threads for this just want it back how it was - and the class back how it was - ie. non-existant.
Actually both stam sorcs and dark exchange were used. Stam sorcs had some of the strongest stam AoE in pvp raids and combined with the utility of negate they were actually incredibly good. The main population didn't use them because this wasn't widely known.
Also back then regen wasn't so much of an issue because retreating maneuvers stayed on healers all the time.
Now stam sorcs are effectively a must have in pvp and far out perform any other stam class. Mainly due to dark deal being ridiculously OP.
But let's pretend not so they don't get nerfed like all the other classes right?
Is that true? Dark exchange was buffed in the same patch that introduced hurricane/implosion and.. another stam addition to a mag passive, I forgot which.. (phsy dmg maybe?)
I'm genuinely curious as to what made stamsorcs strong for stam AOE.Minalan owes me a beer.
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Notadorf - Stamsorc - DC
Khattman Doo - Stamblade - Relegated to Crafter, cos AD.0 -
Xvorg✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Look - if you go with the OP's suggestion and half it to 4k.. It becomes 2k in PVP - which is nothing. Nobody in their right mind would use n expensive 1-second interruptable channel to try to recover 2k health.
Its one thing to ask for something to be toned down - its another to destroy it completely.
Say that to DKs regarding GDB and the nerf cry that even now can be heard from 2014Sarcasm is something too serious to be taken lightly
I was born with the wrong sign
In the wrong house
With the wrong ascendancy
I took the wrong road
That led to the wrong tendencies
I was in the wrong place at the wrong time
For the wrong reason and the wrong rhyme
On the wrong day of the wrong week
Used the wrong method with the wrong technique2 -
Minno✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭the sustain should match Honor the Dead return (over time.) if it wants to give a burst heal with a sustain mechanic.
Otherwise stam have access to rally/vigor, so its not out of the ordinary to have the mag version of dark deal only provide the burst heal. But then again, if current shield mechanics are still in effect, then magsorcs have healing ward and therefore don't need the heal from DD either but it sitll costs stamina so maybe this is a bad idea too?
Just remove the heal component from Dark Deal (stam) but keep the heal for Dark Conversion (mag). its a huge sustain skill and I dont want that intent to be nerfed. But there needs to be a risk in running it, which should be this:
- high dmg/high sustain = no heal
- uses stam = heal+mag return.
- remains interruptible due to a channel mechanic.Minno - DC - Forum-plar Extraordinaire
- Guild-lead for MV
- Filthy Casual2 -
DHale✭✭✭✭✭
✭It only heals like that if you have a lot of magic. I don't so please give it a rest.Sorcerna, proud beta sorc. RIP April 2014 to May 31 2016 DArk Brotherhood. Out of retirement for negates and encases. Sorcerna will be going back into retirement to be my main crafter Fall 2018. Because an 8 k shield is f ing useless. Died because of baddies on the forum. Too much qq too little pew pew. 16 AD 2 DC. 0 EP cause they bad, CP 2300 plus 18 level 50 toons. NA, PC, Grey Host#SORCLIVESMATTER actually they don’t or they wouldn’t keep getting nerfed constantly.0 -
Subversus✭✭✭✭✭
✭the sustain should match Honor the Dead return (over time.) if it wants to give a burst heal with a sustain mechanic.
Otherwise stam have access to rally/vigor, so its not out of the ordinary to have the mag version of dark deal only provide the burst heal. But then again, if current shield mechanics are still in effect, then magsorcs have healing ward and therefore don't need the heal from DD either but it sitll costs stamina so maybe this is a bad idea too?
Just remove the heal component from Dark Deal (stam) but keep the heal for Dark Conversion (mag). its a huge sustain skill and I dont want that intent to be nerfed. But there needs to be a risk in running it, which should be this:
- high dmg/high sustain = no heal
- uses stam = heal+mag return.
- remains interruptible due to a channel mechanic.
Tbh I'd be fine with it giving less healing. No healing is too harsh. I am planning on maining stam sorc next patch after all!Edited by Subversus on May 8, 2017 4:30PM0 -
Minno✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭the sustain should match Honor the Dead return (over time.) if it wants to give a burst heal with a sustain mechanic.
Otherwise stam have access to rally/vigor, so its not out of the ordinary to have the mag version of dark deal only provide the burst heal. But then again, if current shield mechanics are still in effect, then magsorcs have healing ward and therefore don't need the heal from DD either but it sitll costs stamina so maybe this is a bad idea too?
Just remove the heal component from Dark Deal (stam) but keep the heal for Dark Conversion (mag). its a huge sustain skill and I dont want that intent to be nerfed. But there needs to be a risk in running it, which should be this:
- high dmg/high sustain = no heal
- uses stam = heal+mag return.
- remains interruptible due to a channel mechanic.
Tbh I'd be fine with it giving less healing. No healing is too harsh. I am planning on maining stam sorc next patch after all!
id be fine with less healing too. crit heals + shield is what the class was intended for using, not have access to a "free" breath of life.Minno - DC - Forum-plar Extraordinaire
- Guild-lead for MV
- Filthy Casual1 -
templesus✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭They should nerf dark exchange, streak, shields....um...pets are hitting too hard..let's see...
Hold on *goes to read the other numerous nerf sorc threads*
Crystal frags!
Seriously though, does no one bash? Dark exchange is literally telegraphed for an entire second before going off.
Also, you get an 8k tool tip on cyrodiil? I get that in pve with 46k Magicka, so I'm going to assume the OP didn't take pvp reduction into account, which means that 6k rally tick kind of proves DE is much less at about 4k.
Have you fought a 75% of cyrodiil's stam sorcs that use immovables? Try bashing them for the 16 seconds their imov pot is up, see where it gets you.
1 -
Joy_Division✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭They should nerf dark exchange, streak, shields....um...pets are hitting too hard..let's see...
Hold on *goes to read the other numerous nerf sorc threads*
Crystal frags!
Seriously though, does no one bash? Dark exchange is literally telegraphed for an entire second before going off.
Also, you get an 8k tool tip on cyrodiil? I get that in pve with 46k Magicka, so I'm going to assume the OP didn't take pvp reduction into account, which means that 6k rally tick kind of proves DE is much less at about 4k.
Have you fought a 75% of cyrodiil's stam sorcs that use immovables? Try bashing them for the 16 seconds their imov pot is up, see where it gets you.
FYI - immunity cannot prevent interruption.
But the whole "bash me bro" counter is disingenuous since it's so easy for the mobile streaking sorcerer that has 100% up-time on minor expedition to elude their opponent for the second it takes to complete the channel. To say nothing of a random tree they can just run around.Make Rush of Agony "Monsters only." People should not be consecutively crowd controlled in a PvP setting. Period.4