Blame ZoS for not giving Bows an insta spammable attack like others.

Nothing wrong with Bow dps. Inexperienced players or players who refuse to adapt will perform poorly no matter what weapon they equip.

The single biggest factor for the lack of bow performance is the lack of streamers providing guides for bow performance. This means more than likely players are left to figure out performance on their own. While there are a proliferation of magicka and stamina melee videos which guide players to perform better.

Edit: That isn't to say that bows are anywhere near #1, but it is just as achievable to top 40k with a bow build as with melee, both require BiS weapons and gear and near perfect rotation.

DoShazarr wrote: »

Waffennacht wrote: »

Why do people rush through a simple vet dungeon?

Probably because they've done it 250 times and want this 256th time to be the final one.

You do realize Lich, BSW and sets like rattlecage are all dungeon drops and can take up to 300 runs to get a specific item.

We rush through because we don't even want to be there in the first place!

So make everyone else suffer and demoralize and kick all the new players who are still just trying to learn.

Noone cares you've done it so many times because you min-max. There are people who just want to relax and actually have fun exploring the content rather than seeing what you people do. You do realize that it only makes people quit and kills the game, right? What will you do with your flawless gear once there's noone to even compete with?

Having min-maxed gear won't grow you a bigger peen irl, nor make you more socially desireable or make everyone go wow... or w/e is the reason you people do this. (yeah i just don't understand)

Good job.

Should never bring pugs and newbies if this is all you want. Stop hurting the community. Thanks.

Ex-Mythic WoW raider.

This is a funny argument because it goes both ways. I have no more reason to care about you wanting to explore this dungeon than you have to care about me wanting to get my gear. Now we can either all be jerks and keep kicking each other and raging when people in group have different opinions than we do, or we can try to adapt and find compromises. I personally will wait for the player to do their quest if they ask me to, and I will always ask if everyone's done it before. In my experience 9/10 people refuse to admit it's their first time though and prefer sticking behind in proud silence, then wiping on every single boss because they don't know mechanics but gods forbid they ask about them. Btw, plot twist - normal dungeons have the very same story as vet and are a LOT less demanding and can mostlhy even be soloed. Now granted you will also run into people farming gear there...

Teamwork. This is about teamwork and communication, people. Also wtb token system.

Also, did you just bring out the argument of min maxed gear/min maxing not mattering much, then specifically take the time to mention you're some WoW raider?..

I'm a elitist? Why because I want a decent dps if I queue up a healer but I'm a stamplar wouldn't you be *** or would you accept my vigor heals?

tonemd wrote: »

What would it hurt is Snipe had a proc like Crystal Frags?

Besides the light attack spamming bow builds I watch in PUGs, we now come to the second type of annoying "build" you are able to encounter: The hard cast frag Sorc, just mixed up with some light attacks here and there.

Reply in group chat:"Why is that bad ? it hits for 8k"......

Those builds you will even see paired with 500+ CP characters.

I have found a name for that for myself: "Anchor Specialists".

You can do vet dungeons fine with 15k DPS. Who cares how that number is achieved?

LadyLavina wrote: »

mr1sho wrote: »

I don't understand some of these players in this game, If you going queue up as a dps please for the love God don't come in there using SNIPE lol

lol people like to go "oh look, snipe is a high dmg attack. I kill lots of things with it. That must mean I'm a good dps for a dungeon".

No, fair snipe spammers (and honestly most only-bow users in general) , you are not a good dps. In the time that you're taking to back up , fire, and wait for your snipe to hit, a proper dps is cleaning house.

Your snipe hits hard, but it's not fast enough.

if you cancel it though its quite fast.. only it eats stamina too much.. so I also dont use it in dungeons.. I dont use my bow as anything but a back bar with 2 ground aoe on it and some buffs to start with.. and a dot

Saint_Bud wrote: »

I saw people casting heavy attack only with firestaff as a magplar. The terrible think is those player dont accept help and wounder why no one wants to run dungeons with them.

Many people play with the skills they find funny or easy to use. Not all make a character or build to achieve specific number of DPS or heal. So they don't need help. Maybe their build is as they like it.

kongkim wrote: »

Saint_Bud wrote: »

I saw people casting heavy attack only with firestaff as a magplar. The terrible think is those player dont accept help and wounder why no one wants to run dungeons with them.

Many people play with the skills they find funny or easy to use. Not all make a character or build to achieve specific number of DPS or heal. So they don't need help. Maybe their build is as they like it.

That's fine and cool - as long as you aren't hindering a group acitivity that you yourself volunteered to be part of by doing so. You don't have to do dungeons, let alone vet dungeons, but if you do decide to do them then it stops being about you and your fun only and starts being about your group and its fun/success.

kongkim wrote: »

Magdalina wrote: »

kongkim wrote: »

Saint_Bud wrote: »

I saw people casting heavy attack only with firestaff as a magplar. The terrible think is those player dont accept help and wounder why no one wants to run dungeons with them.

Many people play with the skills they find funny or easy to use. Not all make a character or build to achieve specific number of DPS or heal. So they don't need help. Maybe their build is as they like it.

That's fine and cool - as long as you aren't hindering a group acitivity that you yourself volunteered to be part of by doing so. You don't have to do dungeons, let alone vet dungeons, but if you do decide to do them then it stops being about you and your fun only and starts being about your group and its fun/success.

I do not agree on the. The group finder is for everybody to use. And when you queue up, you accept that there is a chance that when doing so you will get a totally random group of people. new and old, casuals and pros, fun builds and max/min.
And that chance is the same if it Normal or Veteran dungeons.

If you what to perform and do high numbers, and like every other person in the group to do so as well, you need to make a premade where people accept that and have the same goal.

Erm...what part don't you agree with, having to adapt for the group's success? So, say, you get to a boss and you just want to lazily dps her down. But people keep telling you that when your screen goes white, you need to kill portals as you're the only person who can do that, and portals spawn ads if not killed. But since you just want to lazily dps the boss down, you simply ignore them and keep dpsing the boss. Eventually you get overrun by 20 ogrims that spawned because you didn't bother closing the portals and die. Your groupmates politely remind you that you need to close the portals, but since you don't find closing the portals fun you still refuse to do that and wipe the group again. And again. And then you get kicked and feel unfairly mistreated for just "playing the way you want"?

You join a group acitivity. It means you signed up to work as a group. If you like being melee but for this boss you MUST be ranged, sorry but you have to go ranged. If you like just staying on boss and never bothering with other things but you have to close portals on this boss - sorry but you'll have to close portals, no matter how unfun you find it. If the 5k melee-only dps your fun build does is simply not enough to close the portals in time and you refuse/cannot adapt - I'm sorry but you should leave as you're hindering the group's progress and there's simply no point in you being there.

From my side it means I'll offer you any help I can, I'll give you repair kits, lockpicks, soulgems, food, advices, explanations and whatnot, because I signed up to work as a group. I'll also do 70% group's dps and not mention it, that's fine. But I cannot kill these damn portals for you. I'd love to but I CANNOT. If your fun preferred buildstyle is causing your group to fail - not just slowing it down but making it absurdly hard or absolutely impossibe to progress - then it's time you reconsider your build before you queue for a vet dungeon next.

kongkim wrote: »

Magdalina wrote: »

kongkim wrote: »

Magdalina wrote: »

kongkim wrote: »

Saint_Bud wrote: »

I saw people casting heavy attack only with firestaff as a magplar. The terrible think is those player dont accept help and wounder why no one wants to run dungeons with them.

Many people play with the skills they find funny or easy to use. Not all make a character or build to achieve specific number of DPS or heal. So they don't need help. Maybe their build is as they like it.

That's fine and cool - as long as you aren't hindering a group acitivity that you yourself volunteered to be part of by doing so. You don't have to do dungeons, let alone vet dungeons, but if you do decide to do them then it stops being about you and your fun only and starts being about your group and its fun/success.

I do not agree on the. The group finder is for everybody to use. And when you queue up, you accept that there is a chance that when doing so you will get a totally random group of people. new and old, casuals and pros, fun builds and max/min.
And that chance is the same if it Normal or Veteran dungeons.

If you what to perform and do high numbers, and like every other person in the group to do so as well, you need to make a premade where people accept that and have the same goal.

Erm...what part don't you agree with, having to adapt for the group's success? So, say, you get to a boss and you just want to lazily dps her down. But people keep telling you that when your screen goes white, you need to kill portals as you're the only person who can do that, and portals spawn ads if not killed. But since you just want to lazily dps the boss down, you simply ignore them and keep dpsing the boss. Eventually you get overrun by 20 ogrims that spawned because you didn't bother closing the portals and die. Your groupmates politely remind you that you need to close the portals, but since you don't find closing the portals fun you still refuse to do that and wipe the group again. And again. And then you get kicked and feel unfairly mistreated for just "playing the way you want"?

You join a group acitivity. It means you signed up to work as a group. If you like being melee but for this boss you MUST be ranged, sorry but you have to go ranged. If you like just staying on boss and never bothering with other things but you have to close portals on this boss - sorry but you'll have to close portals, no matter how unfun you find it. If the 5k melee-only dps your fun build does is simply not enough to close the portals in time and you refuse/cannot adapt - I'm sorry but you should leave as you're hindering the group's progress and there's simply no point in you being there.

From my side it means I'll offer you any help I can, I'll give you repair kits, lockpicks, soulgems, food, advices, explanations and whatnot, because I signed up to work as a group. I'll also do 70% group's dps and not mention it, that's fine. But I cannot kill these damn portals for you. I'd love to but I CANNOT. If your fun preferred buildstyle is causing your group to fail - not just slowing it down but making it absurdly hard or absolutely impossibe to progress - then it's time you reconsider your build before you queue for a vet dungeon next.

Im not saying you don't need to work together. Because some of the dungeons require that. But don't sign up to a random dungeon with a random groups and expect to get people that know how or make optimized builds.
If you expect that you are wrong in queueing up for a random run.

I expect people to
1)agree to work together. As in, if they're told to close portals, they go close portals. I can gladly explain why it needs to be done or how best to do it but they need to listen. 9/10 pugs refuse. Planar in WGT(the boss I described) is a damn fine reading check that most people somehow fail.
2)do the role they queued for. I'm in no way talking about optimized builds but if you queue as a tank, you must have a taunt. If you queue as a healer, you must have at least one(lol) healing skill. If you queue as a dps(for a vet dungeon), do damage. A non optimized build is fine but 5k dps is not, and does not qualify for doing damage whatsoever. A bigger issue is players have no idea their build can be bad until they enter the dungeon since there's nothing in open world even hinting on that. But that's where we come back to 1. If you see that your dps is underperforming and possibly causing group wipes, perhaps ask for a tip. Or if you're given one, don't brush it off or try to yell at the person taking their time to try to help you. If it comes down to being impossible to fix within the dungeon(wrong sets, no food, wrong skills and no skillpoints) and it's stopping your group's progress I suppose you'll have to leave and rethink your build until you queue for a vet dungeon again, because what else is there to do?

The dps/tank/heal checks still present in the dungeons are VERY weak, with exception of SotH ones on hm. Like 15k dps is more than enough. Hell 10 probably is. But if you do less than that, there're simply mechanics you aren't getting through because you honestly aren't doing he role you queued for.

For a normal duneon, it's whatever.

Elitist "I'm tired of people using sub optimal build for doing vet dungeons. It slows down progress"

Same Elitist "ZOS, please nerf sustain and lower people's damage the game is too easy."

kongkim wrote: »

mr1sho wrote: »

I'm a elitist? Why because I want a decent dps if I queue up a healer but I'm a stamplar wouldn't you be *** or would you accept my vigor heals?

Yes you are.

Yea you my friend are ********

People who queue for a random dungeon and then complain about who they get are the lol. Worst type of player possible. If you aren't prepared to get paired with someone who isn't a min/maxer then group with your guild mates before you queue.