Should we stop selling limited time only cash shop items because it is unethical?

WalksonGraves · May 2017

Yes

haukke wrote: »

ScytheNL wrote: »

Well.. The Crown system IS intentionally deceiptful, just like how casino's work with chips:

"Hey, this island for only 15.000 imaginary in game crowns!"

vs

"DAMN, they're charging € 120,00 REAL MONEY for an imaginary place to live for my imaginary heroes?"

If the Crown store was in actual money prices they wouldn't sell half as much.

if the island was real money instead of crowns it would have only been about 55 dollars. I bought crowns at half price and only 5500 at a time. even at full price crowns are .77 cents each. I think they should have more limited stuff. it is not deceptive it is math. if you don't like it don't use it. and if you don't use it you have no reason to complain.

Island is 150$ not 55$

DanaDark · May 2017

No

I have taken 3 different classes on ethics... highlights:

Ethics in Science: Don't imprison and do experiments on people.
Ethics in Business: Don't sell Ford Pintos. Exploding gas tanks are bad.
Ethics in Computer Science: Don't program robots to go on murder sprees at the local pre-school.

I do not see ZOS really pushing any ethical boundaries at this time.

MasterSpatula · May 2017

Dont Care

If they think they can make more money selling a small number at a stupid price than a larger number at a reasonable price, more power to them, I suppose.

max_only · May 2017

Thannazzar wrote: »

WalksonGraves wrote: »

What? Capitalism leads to inequality? Since when! Next you're going to tell me people eat thousand dollar desserts while people starve to death. The more you have the less it's worth and the more likely you are to waste.

Blimey, hadn't realised that ESO had a Social Justice Warrior Class.

A socialist and a social justice warrior are two different things.

Also, being a warrior for justice (Superman, Batman, Spider-Man, Captain America) doesn't sound like a pejorative but that may be a generational thing......

Magenpie · May 2017

Yes

At risk of flames, death, destruction and tiresome insults, for your interest, have a look at 'Extra Credits' on Youtube, and find their 'Free to Play' video playlist.

Interesting stuff...

Dr.NRG · May 2017

No

Thats parts of ZOS business model and its their call! No one forces you to buy these items and they are a good way to make mobey for ZOS without screwing us all by doing monthly fees or other. On top of that these bring in some diversity. For example I wish I would have bought the elf hero costume cause now that you can dye it it looks cool af and not many ppl have it. In this case you get what you pay for! Crown crates differnt story tho;)

WalksonGraves · May 2017

Yes

max_only wrote: »

Thannazzar wrote: »

WalksonGraves wrote: »

What? Capitalism leads to inequality? Since when! Next you're going to tell me people eat thousand dollar desserts while people starve to death. The more you have the less it's worth and the more likely you are to waste.

Blimey, hadn't realised that ESO had a Social Justice Warrior Class.

A socialist and a social justice warrior are two different things.

Also, being a warrior for justice (Superman, Batman, Spider-Man, Captain America) doesn't sound like a pejorative but that may be a generational thing......

Red Skull was constantly screaming "***" & "sjw" at Cpt. America. It's a *** tradition.

Magenpie · May 2017

Yes

Dr.NRG wrote: »

Thats parts of ZOS business model and its their call! No one forces you to buy these items and they are a good way to make mobey for ZOS without screwing us all by doing monthly fees or other. On top of that these bring in some diversity. For example I wish I would have bought the elf hero costume cause now that you can dye it it looks cool af and not many ppl have it. In this case you get what you pay for! Crown crates differnt story tho;)

Hi there

My problem with the time-limited offers is also their connection to the Crown Crates really.

First of all, I have no problem with ZOS selling things in a store, I also don't mind the odd Limited Edition item with the price set at a premium but having all the store items with a time limit is ***, I think. Having all items on a time limit, long or short, not only pressurises players to buy Now This Minute, even if they can't afford it at the time, but then allows ZOS to re-pressurise via the Crown Crates, at a premium too, because the gem conversion rate is so terrible.

Even as a subscriber, I feel that ZOS don't really 'like' me as a customer, and just want to gouge me for all they can. That's not a very good way to form customer loyalty, imho.

If they simply put all items in the shop, permanently, with maybe a few seasonal limited edition things and the odd Premium limited edition items, players could buy most of the items they want when their personal budget allows or when it's appropriate to their gameplay.

I'm not an economist (to my eternal relief) but I can't believe ZOS would lose money this way, and it would certainly forge a better bond between their players and the game, because people would feel able to customise as and when they wanted.

Mind you, I also think they should take a leaf out of the WoW manual and throw in more in-game collectable mounts, pets, costumes etc. I reckon one of the reasons WoW suceeds is because it gives players many many many reasons to go back and play, collecting these things being one.

I wish ZOS would lighten up and start treating players as allies rather than The Enemy and Cash Cows. I really like this game, but it doesn't half try it's best to irritate me in lots of ways.

Hallothiel · May 2017

Dont Care

Annoying? Sometimes. (But not as annoying as crown crates).

Frustrating? Occasionally.

But Unethical? No. Standard business practice the world over. Limited edition offers are the cornerstone of business. Are sales unethical as they are also limited time offers?

You do not need to buy anything from the Crown store. You can happily play the game without ever buying crowns. No one is forcing you to buy stuff.

Rinmaethodain · May 2017

Also, for people giving real life examples:

In real life, having limited time products have logical and practical reason - a production process is launched to produce X of that item or its produced only for Y of months.

With virtual goods "limited time" makes no sense, the goods are virtual and once coded hey are available all the time. The rarity and "limited avaliability" is artificial.

radiostar · May 2017

They're just min/maxing. It's inevitable, to quote Agent Smith.

Beardimus · May 2017

No

In no way is it unethical! Standard marketing practice. Also do I mind? No, as I wont personally buy them and if people do, good as ZOS will be profitable which is key to game longevity

clocksstoppe · May 2017

Dont Care

Limited time offers unethical? That's what you complain about? With gamble crates being sold to children?

Kiwi · May 2017

i guess op read an edgy article about chinese cash boxes

a fool and his money are soon parted

Zvorgin · May 2017

ANGEL_BtVS wrote: »

Taco Bell has a limited time taco burrito. Is that unethical?

Yes, because they should let us have access to that deliciousness all the time!

Balamoor · May 2017

No

Calling something unethical doesn't automatically make it so.

I'll just toss this thread in the idiot whine bin.

ANGEL_BtVS · May 2017

No

MaximusDargus wrote: »

Also, for people giving real life examples:

In real life, having limited time products have logical and practical reason - a production process is launched to produce X of that item or its produced only for Y of months.

With virtual goods "limited time" makes no sense, the goods are virtual and once coded hey are available all the time. The rarity and "limited avaliability" is artificial.

Yeah, Taco Bell's "taco burrito" is only limited time due to a production process and limited number of months to produce.

Pwnyridah · May 2017

No

Lol how is it unethical? They're vanity items. If you want them, buy 'em! There was just a crown store sale!

haukke · May 2017

No

WalksonGraves wrote: »

haukke wrote: »

ScytheNL wrote: »

Well.. The Crown system IS intentionally deceiptful, just like how casino's work with chips:

"Hey, this island for only 15.000 imaginary in game crowns!"

vs

"DAMN, they're charging € 120,00 REAL MONEY for an imaginary place to live for my imaginary heroes?"

If the Crown store was in actual money prices they wouldn't sell half as much.

if the island was real money instead of crowns it would have only been about 55 dollars. I bought crowns at half price and only 5500 at a time. even at full price crowns are .77 cents each. I think they should have more limited stuff. it is not deceptive it is math. if you don't like it don't use it. and if you don't use it you have no reason to complain.

Island is 150$ not 55$

It is not 150 dollars. Crowns are around .77 cents each and I bought mine on sale knowing the island would be expensive and they did tell everyone in advance when it was going to be released. 5500 crowns are 40 dollars plus tax. It's math try it sometime.

haukke · May 2017

No

I am not even sure why this is a topic. They always tell us in advance what is coming and if it limited time. They are after all vanity items buy them or don't it is as easy as that.

IcyDeadPeople · May 2017

Dont Care

MidknightWolf wrote: »

A question asking if you think persuading weak minded, often younge consumers into impulse buying already outrageously overpriced items is unethical. I dont have an opinion. Just curious.

No, "ethical" questions would be more along the lines of advertising one thing and then delivering a completely different product, or say, exploiting child labor, poisoning the local water supply etc.

All these products for sale in the crown store are exactly as advertised, in fact you can preview the houses and explore, check them out before buying anything.

And although I've seen an occasional bug, I highly doubt they have any 10-year old programmers on staff or toxic waste problems.

idk · May 2017

No

Why did OP attempt to skew the poll by falsely calling the practice unethical? Just because someone finds distaste in the practice does not make it unethical.

Not that it matters. The polls in the forums are designed to be nothing more than entertainment value. They hold no usable information about the game base.

KochDerDamonen · May 2017

This poll will not convince ZOS of anything.

When they started cranking up prices, there was uproar.
When they introduced limited time offers, there was uproar
When they put in Crown Crates, uproar
Limited time, crown store exclusive motifs? Uproar.

Their response was a $150 digital house.

And for folks that expected Morrowind to be included in the sub fee, that could be seen as a slight too. I was always personally under the impression that an 'expansion'(chapter) would not be. Although, I can't really look at Morrowind yet to judge whether it's worthy of being called something other than a DLC...

max_only wrote: »

Thannazzar wrote: »

WalksonGraves wrote: »

What? Capitalism leads to inequality? Since when! Next you're going to tell me people eat thousand dollar desserts while people starve to death. The more you have the less it's worth and the more likely you are to waste.

Blimey, hadn't realised that ESO had a Social Justice Warrior Class.

A socialist and a social justice warrior are two different things.

Also, being a warrior for justice (Superman, Batman, Spider-Man, Captain America) doesn't sound like a pejorative but that may be a generational thing......

@max_only It is a generational thing, the phrase 'social justice warrior' refers to a group/brand of person (some people self-identify as, others perform the same actions as that group) whom fancies themselves an arbiter of the downtrodden, and will go out of their way to do things ranging from 'speak up for' other people through a tweet to physically assaulting a person they perceive as being negative towards the aforementioned downtrodden. Generally under the assumption that particular groups of people, based on anything from race to disability, are oppressed and needs protecting (from anything, words, violence, discrimination) from the 'social justice warriors' or available government body.

That is the most neutral way I can describe that, I'd like to say it's a synonym for 'lynch mob'

Malic · May 2017

My Ex GF says I am "an unethical piece of trash" she also told me I was morally corrupt but I dont know, im just a normal guy who see a nice ass and looks.

So if Im unethical for doing that then who cares if their "ethics" arent in sync with your definition? Just dont buy what you dont want, is that such a hard concept to grasp?

Or are you like my EX, you think people should live the way you say? This is an online game, what the hell do I care about your or anyone elses ethics. Thats like a donkey taking a crap, poop coming out of the ass of an ass.

Dont be an ass man.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zd4t8Kys0tU

Jamascus · May 2017

ANGEL_BtVS wrote: »

Taco Bell has a limited time taco burrito. Is that unethical?

Taconachorito. That's all their menu should say.

haukke · May 2017

No

KochDerDamonen wrote: »

This poll will not convince ZOS of anything.

When they started cranking up prices, there was uproar.
When they introduced limited time offers, there was uproar
When they put in Crown Crates, uproar
Limited time, crown store exclusive motifs? Uproar.

Their response was a $150 digital house.

I don't remember seeing anything that 150 dollars.

ScytheNL · May 2017

haukke wrote: »

ScytheNL wrote: »

Well.. The Crown system IS intentionally deceiptful, just like how casino's work with chips:

"Hey, this island for only 15.000 imaginary in game crowns!"

vs

"DAMN, they're charging € 120,00 REAL MONEY for an imaginary place to live for my imaginary heroes?"

If the Crown store was in actual money prices they wouldn't sell half as much.

if the island was real money instead of crowns it would have only been about 55 dollars. I bought crowns at half price and only 5500 at a time. even at full price crowns are .77 cents each. I think they should have more limited stuff. it is not deceptive it is math. if you don't like it don't use it. and if you don't use it you have no reason to complain.

Crowns on Xbox are 39,99, x3 = 119,97

Even on sale, and with the extra bonus for Xbox Gold Live, they were 23,99, so the island at the CHEAPEST possible price on Xbox One would be € 71,97

ScytheNL · May 2017

KerinKor wrote: »

ScytheNL wrote: »

Well.. The Crown system IS intentionally deceiptful, just like how casino's work with chips:

"Hey, this island for only 15.000 imaginary in game crowns!"

vs

"DAMN, they're charging € 120,00 REAL MONEY for an imaginary place to live for my imaginary heroes?".

If someone's too stupid to be able to translate Crown price into real cash then perhaps they need to educate themselves instead of playing a video game.

In any case, your point has no relevance to this thread as it isn't only applicable to time-limited sales.

That is how it works. Hence why I mentioned casino's, that operate on the exact same psychological principle. It's not that they CAN'T translate the amount, it's that is SEEMS less relevant and less expensive when it's imaginary money.

ScytheNL · May 2017

Stopnaggin wrote: »

ScytheNL wrote: »

Well.. The Crown system IS intentionally deceiptful, just like how casino's work with chips:

"Hey, this island for only 15.000 imaginary in game crowns!"

vs

"DAMN, they're charging € 120,00 REAL MONEY for an imaginary place to live for my imaginary heroes?"

If the Crown store was in actual money prices they wouldn't sell half as much.

There is nothing tricky about buying crowns. You know exactly what you are buying. Even with the crates, you know you are buying a "chance" to get something. They never hid that fact. $120 in rlm, or maybe I bought mine on sale and added what I get every month from eso plus.

"The primary reason casinos prefer chips over cash is because chips add a little mental separation between the gambler and his valuable money. It’s a little easier for you, the gambler, to place a big bet because it’s just chips. Logically, you know what those chips represent. But since it’s not actual cash in your hand, you feel slightly less inhibition towards taking bigger risks.

Basically, it’s a matter of psychology. You can also think about it like this. If you wanted to place a $500 bet on blackjack and all you had was cash, you would have to sit there and count out the currency. It might be twenty-five $20 bills or a small wad of fresh, crisp hundred dollar bills. It’s very real and it’s staring you in the face. It gives time for what you’re doing to really sink in.

But if you use chips, all you need to do is throw a single, purple chip down on the table. It doesn’t look like much. It’s just a single, lonely chip sitting there in the middle of a green felt sea. All it takes is a second and the money is gone."

Same applies here.

Elsonso · May 2017

pieratsos wrote: »

I totally agree that its because of people's mentality that these kind of things even exist tho it doesnt really have anything to do with being an adult. It mostly has to do with people being able to see reason over emotion. And if people didnt have that mentality then we wouldnt be having this conversation now.
That being said no one is forcing the companies to do these kind of things. On the contrary, they are willingly doing those offers with the sole purpose of manipulating people, expose that mentality and take as much money as possible. Like i said, its a brilliant business tactic but it is what it is. Whether its good or bad, well it depends on how u see it.

Umm. People buy luxury items because of emotions. We are not Vulcans. People often buy luxury items, and that includes ESO stuff, because it makes them feel better, as one possible emotion. They certainly don't buy it because it is the logical thing that they need to buy. I buy underwear because I need it. I buy ESO mounts because I want it. Big difference.

Limited time offers enhance the feeling, the thrill, of buying something on a short duration basis. Yes, they are taking advantage of this feeling, as is any retailer that does the same, but it is not wrong. It is not wrong because people have a brain, and they can make decisions regarding the purchase of luxury items, vs purchase of other items. They can decide whether they want to spend on those terms, and not do it if they decide it is not worth it to them.

I don't know if this is the intent, but don't make these limited time sales out to be something that enslaves otherwise smart people and makes them feebleminded, then tricks them into spending the money that they should be spending on food on ESO items.

ScytheNL wrote: »

Stopnaggin wrote: »

ScytheNL wrote: »

Well.. The Crown system IS intentionally deceiptful, just like how casino's work with chips:

"Hey, this island for only 15.000 imaginary in game crowns!"

vs

"DAMN, they're charging € 120,00 REAL MONEY for an imaginary place to live for my imaginary heroes?"

If the Crown store was in actual money prices they wouldn't sell half as much.

There is nothing tricky about buying crowns. You know exactly what you are buying. Even with the crates, you know you are buying a "chance" to get something. They never hid that fact. $120 in rlm, or maybe I bought mine on sale and added what I get every month from eso plus.

"The primary reason casinos prefer chips over cash is because chips add a little mental separation between the gambler and his valuable money. It’s a little easier for you, the gambler, to place a big bet because it’s just chips. Logically, you know what those chips represent. But since it’s not actual cash in your hand, you feel slightly less inhibition towards taking bigger risks.

Basically, it’s a matter of psychology. You can also think about it like this. If you wanted to place a $500 bet on blackjack and all you had was cash, you would have to sit there and count out the currency. It might be twenty-five $20 bills or a small wad of fresh, crisp hundred dollar bills. It’s very real and it’s staring you in the face. It gives time for what you’re doing to really sink in.

But if you use chips, all you need to do is throw a single, purple chip down on the table. It doesn’t look like much. It’s just a single, lonely chip sitting there in the middle of a green felt sea. All it takes is a second and the money is gone."

Same applies here.

That may be the case, but chips (npt Crowns) also make money easier to handle and manage, reduces the amount of actual cash that is on the tables, reducing the risk of theft and stealing, and allows the casino to concentrate on-site cash in one location. Just for some perspective.

Crowns exist because using actual cash in-game apparently causes issues with governments, they remove the need to consider global currencies in pricing, and reduce complexity in the transaction, in addition to the psychological reasons listed above. Also for some perspective.