What is the secret to good dps?

Arenguros · May 2017

So I'm playing an archer type character with bow/2h or bow/bow.

After the Homestead patch introduced target dummies I wanted to know what my dps was, just as a rough indication where I stand.
I know my toon is far from max, I don't have max CP, I only wear a mix of epic crafted / overland gear, my build is not perfect and my race (dunmer) apparently is useless for stamina builds, I'm not using potions, and so on.
My dps on dummy was 10k, with a bit of optimisation I got to 13k.
What would the expected numbers be? I looked up various guides and threads and was absolutely stumped. 30k is apparently the norm, trial guilds require 35k, the best players can pull of 40k alone and even 50k+ with group support.

So where does this huge gap come from? I expected it be gear and build so I went to pts and looked up various guides.
I built my character as close to these posted builds as possible with a template char and tried it out. (This was pre 3.0).
A bow/bow build that was apparently able to pull off 38k solo - I was able to get to 21k.
The dw/bow meta build that should be able to go 40k+ - i was able to get to 23k.
Now obviously I have little experience with these rotations and will make an error weaving here and there or refresh a dot too late and so on. But this should not cost me almost half the dps?

Now with the 3.0 PTS I tried again to replicate some builds and numbers people have posted.
For example there was a build on a template toon that was apparently doing 31k. Someone even pointed out some flaws with this build, so this is probably not the max performance of this.
I could replicate this build 100% and still only managed a dps of 23k.

Now keep in mind the builds I tested already include trial gear/vMA weapons that I will probably never get. On live with the best optimisation I can get, I expect to stay below 20k, which seems to be too low even for vet DLC dungeons.

So now my question is:
Where do these big differences of 40% to even 80% dps increase come from?
Can it be true that a few errors regarding weaving / rotation can cost up to half the dps?
Does latency / framerate play a big role here?
Is there some secret I am missing? Are there others with the same problem?

Looking at other games it almost seems like eso dps is "broken", escpecially since things like animation canceling, weaving, and generally just clicking as fast as possible play such a big role.

SodanTok · May 2017

Now obviously I have little experience with these rotations and will make an error weaving here and there or refresh a dot too late and so on. But this should not cost me almost half the dps?

Yes, maybe not half but significant amount. Lets say your fight took 100sec. Just by putting trap 1sec late each refresh you just lost ~14second of Minor Force (10% crit damage). Now lets say you used that bow/bow build but each 10s you messed up light weaving and restarter hawk eye. Suddenly you only had 25% damage increase to bow abilities ~70sec of that fight. Now what if you were standing too close? You may have lost up to 12% damage from bow abilities.
Now what if you missed one Snipe attack each rotation? Suddenly you lost maybe over 300k damage in that 100sec. That is another 3k DPS.

timidobserver · May 2017

Rotation and group buffs.

Karm1cOne · May 2017

A lot of those builds get a boost to damage from raid buffs: rotating warhorns, igneous weapons, etc. Work on animation cancelling and perfecting your rotation. Increase little by little. It will add up.

Arenguros · May 2017

Karm1cOne wrote: »

A lot of those builds get a boost to damage from raid buffs: rotating warhorns, igneous weapons, etc.

All the builds/numbers I tested against claimed to be self-buffed.
Now I know several players will argue you will always have the puncture debuff or ele drain on an enemy and use this to increase their "self-buffed" numbers, but still...

If eso is really this punishing towards "skill" (aka clicking a rotation perfectly, best latency, manage dot uptimes with an addon), I see little sense playing a dps toon.
As a casual player I didn't expect to be anywhere near leaderboard players, but dealing at least 75% of the dps?

It seems to me this should be of interest to the devs as well.
I.e. I see currently no point in buying the dungeon dlcs as I won't be able to participate without dragging my groups down...

SodanTok · May 2017

Arenguros wrote: »

Karm1cOne wrote: »

A lot of those builds get a boost to damage from raid buffs: rotating warhorns, igneous weapons, etc.

All the builds/numbers I tested against claimed to be self-buffed.
Now I know several players will argue you will always have the puncture debuff or ele drain on an enemy and use this to increase their "self-buffed" numbers, but still...

If eso is really this punishing towards "skill" (aka clicking a rotation perfectly, best latency, manage dot uptimes with an addon), I see little sense playing a dps toon.
As a casual player I didn't expect to be anywhere near leaderboard players, but dealing at least 75% of the dps?

It seems to me this should be of interest to the devs as well.
I.e. I see currently no point in buying the dungeon dlcs as I won't be able to participate without dragging my groups down...

It is not that punishing you make it sound. Have good gear (no need to have the best), use your skills properly (no panicking, replenish dots in some well timed fashion, find balance between refreshing stuff that is still running and switching to backbar too often), use proper food and potions, have golden gear and you will pretty easily reach over 20k dps. Then with experience playing it you will get better and better, get more CP and gear and your dps will increase.

Your DPS on dummy with numbers like 10k or 13k show some other problem. That is DPS people reach by just pressing one skill on mismatched purple gear. Aka doing everything basic wrong.

DHale · May 2017

Practice practice practice and bow cannot be a primary dps tool sure poison inject and endless hail are great dots but that is only part of a good dps rotation.

Beardimus · May 2017

Weaving / rotation biggest difference. Sadly also meta gear etc, which makes it dull. But a good player will still make a big difference over gear alone

Personally take dummies with a pinch of salt unless you are doing Vet Trials which is all about the button smash. Worry about the content you want to do.

My vMSA build is around 16/17k for reference

Liofa · May 2017

Animation cancelling + group + rotation + items . If everything I just listed you have is decent , you will hit high numbers . If talking about dummy , take away ''group'' factor and if everything else is still decent , you should hit 35k easily . Group buffs can take it to 60k or even more .

For animation cancelling , watch this . It is quick and to the point video :

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BLZzGoPp9Ug

Zolron · May 2017

[ ?

sodantokb16_ESO wrote: »

Arenguros wrote: »

Karm1cOne wrote: »

A lot of those builds get a boost to damage from raid buffs: rotating warhorns, igneous weapons, etc.

All the builds/numbers I tested against claimed to be self-buffed.
Now I know several players will argue you will always have the puncture debuff or ele drain on an enemy and use this to increase their "self-buffed" numbers, but still...

If eso is really this punishing towards "skill" (aka clicking a rotation perfectly, best latency, manage dot uptimes with an addon), I see little sense playing a dps toon.
As a casual player I didn't expect to be anywhere near leaderboard players, but dealing at least 75% of the dps?

It seems to me this should be of interest to the devs as well.
I.e. I see currently no point in buying the dungeon dlcs as I won't be able to participate without dragging my groups down...

It is not that punishing you make it sound. Have good gear (no need to have the best), use your skills properly (no panicking, replenish dots in some well timed fashion, find balance between refreshing stuff that is still running and switching to backbar too often), use proper food and potions, have golden gear and you will pretty easily reach over 20k dps. Then with experience playing it you will get better and better, get more CP and gear and your dps will increase.

Your DPS on dummy with numbers like 10k or 13k show some other problem. That is DPS people reach by just pressing one skill on mismatched purple gear. Aka doing everything basic wrong.

I must be doing something horribly wrong then...My CP300 magika NB can only pull 11k dps with 2.5k spellpower, 74%crit and 34k magika. I'm in all crafted CP160 gear ( 5 peice Julianos, 4 magnus and 3 peice Willpower jewelery) all purple all divines...How do I get 13k dps from one button and mis-matched gear ??
***note*** this is not with any animation cancelling at all. I dont like the feel and look and since I mainly play solo for immersion it doesnt bother me things die in 2 or 3 hits anyways. Would weaving attacks really double my dps ?

Chibs · May 2017

Anybody who says they can pull 10k DPS with one skill and mismatched gear is exaggerating greatly, lol. Or they are a Mag Sorc.

SodanTok · May 2017

Zolron wrote: »

[ ?

sodantokb16_ESO wrote: »

Arenguros wrote: »

Karm1cOne wrote: »

A lot of those builds get a boost to damage from raid buffs: rotating warhorns, igneous weapons, etc.

All the builds/numbers I tested against claimed to be self-buffed.
Now I know several players will argue you will always have the puncture debuff or ele drain on an enemy and use this to increase their "self-buffed" numbers, but still...

If eso is really this punishing towards "skill" (aka clicking a rotation perfectly, best latency, manage dot uptimes with an addon), I see little sense playing a dps toon.
As a casual player I didn't expect to be anywhere near leaderboard players, but dealing at least 75% of the dps?

It seems to me this should be of interest to the devs as well.
I.e. I see currently no point in buying the dungeon dlcs as I won't be able to participate without dragging my groups down...

It is not that punishing you make it sound. Have good gear (no need to have the best), use your skills properly (no panicking, replenish dots in some well timed fashion, find balance between refreshing stuff that is still running and switching to backbar too often), use proper food and potions, have golden gear and you will pretty easily reach over 20k dps. Then with experience playing it you will get better and better, get more CP and gear and your dps will increase.

Your DPS on dummy with numbers like 10k or 13k show some other problem. That is DPS people reach by just pressing one skill on mismatched purple gear. Aka doing everything basic wrong.

I must be doing something horribly wrong then...My CP300 magika NB can only pull 11k dps with 2.5k spellpower, 74%crit and 34k magika. I'm in all crafted CP160 gear ( 5 peice Julianos, 4 magnus and 3 peice Willpower jewelery) all purple all divines...How do I get 13k dps from one button and mis-matched gear ??
***note*** this is not with any animation cancelling at all. I dont like the feel and look and since I mainly play solo for immersion it doesnt bother me things die in 2 or 3 hits anyways. Would weaving attacks really double my dps ?

Double probably not. But golden weapons and weaving light attack inbetween would increase your dps both thanks to more damage and to better ultimate generation.

Chibs wrote: »

Anybody who says they can pull 10k DPS with one skill and mismatched gear is exaggerating greatly, lol. Or they are a Mag Sorc.

Ok, i was exaggerating a little. But you can do 7k foodless, naked with golded bow, major brutality by spamming snipe and light attacks, with 100cp in mighty (5.3k without CP). That is 1600weapon damage, 20k stamina, 23% crit chance.
Having mismatched purple gear would increase that output at least by 50%.

Arenguros · May 2017

DHale wrote: »

Practice practice practice and bow cannot be a primary dps tool (...)

Why not? This does not look that bad:
tamrielfoundry.com/topic/noss-bo-bo-stamblade-pve-guide/
And looking at the meta dw/bow build the only real difference is the spamable attack and the fact that the bow heavy attack does not auto-fire.

Liofa wrote: »

Animation cancelling + group + rotation + items . If everything I just listed you have is decent , you will hit high numbers . If talking about dummy , take away ''group'' factor and if everything else is still decent , you should hit 35k easily . Group buffs can take it to 60k or even more .

I know what animation cancelling is and I use it to an extent.
Obviously not perfect as I am no robot and I don't use any macros or similar.

sodantokb16_ESO wrote: »

Double probably not. But golden weapons and weaving light attack inbetween would increase your dps both thanks to more damage and to better ultimate generation.

Upgrading my gear from purple to golden did increase my dps by only 2-3k on pts.
As far as ultimate generation is concerned it should be enough to get in one light attack every 8 seconds to keep the buff up, so this is rather forgiving if you mess up weaving every now and then.
Hawk Eye or Siphoning Attacks benefit much more from perfect weaving, but the increase should still be only a few thousand dps, not 15k+

SodanTok · May 2017

Arenguros wrote: »

DHale wrote: »

Practice practice practice and bow cannot be a primary dps tool (...)

Why not? This does not look that bad:
tamrielfoundry.com/topic/noss-bo-bo-stamblade-pve-guide/
And looking at the meta dw/bow build the only real difference is the spamable attack and the fact that the bow heavy attack does not auto-fire.

Liofa wrote: »

Animation cancelling + group + rotation + items . If everything I just listed you have is decent , you will hit high numbers . If talking about dummy , take away ''group'' factor and if everything else is still decent , you should hit 35k easily . Group buffs can take it to 60k or even more .

I know what animation cancelling is and I use it to an extent.
Obviously not perfect as I am no robot and I don't use any macros or similar.

sodantokb16_ESO wrote: »

Double probably not. But golden weapons and weaving light attack inbetween would increase your dps both thanks to more damage and to better ultimate generation.

Upgrading my gear from purple to golden did increase my dps by only 2-3k on pts.
As far as ultimate generation is concerned it should be enough to get in one light attack every 8 seconds to keep the buff up, so this is rather forgiving if you mess up weaving every now and then.
Hawk Eye or Siphoning Attacks benefit much more from perfect weaving, but the increase should still be only a few thousand dps, not 15k+

Well, if you go by your 23k dps and not the 13k from live. Dont forget all those builds are for current patch not for the huge sustain nerf patch.
If we ignore that and lets say you have 26k now with gold gear on CURRENT PATCH. With some practice and proper weaving you will reach 30 in no time. (still speaking of bow build). Then after that is the hard part where you need to absolutely optimize your rotation, get someone to apply major fracture (thats like what? maybe another 10% dps increase), get someone to supply you stamina, use pots (stam, crit, brutality) nonstop, get minor berserk (if you arent NB already), optimize CP allocation, make sure you have 100% uptime on all these things (crit, brutality, fracture, berserk, hawk eye,..) stand ~25m far away for full effect of long shots and you should be able to do much better.
I myself have only like 31k bow/bow with slightly different and worse gear, without berserk, without fracture, without getting stamina from someone, without master bow on stam sorc.

The simple fact you use bow severly limits you. Its easier to do higher DPS on classic dw/bow builds.

Arenguros · May 2017

sodantokb16_ESO wrote: »

(...)
I myself have only like 31k bow/bow with slightly different and worse gear, without berserk, without fracture, without getting stamina from someone, without master bow on stam sorc.

The simple fact you use bow severly limits you. Its easier to do higher DPS on classic dw/bow builds.

I'm not sure if I want to be happy or sad that you apparently need to be a god to reach even 35k on a bow build.
What numbers are getting on a dw/bow build with similar gear?

With 3.0 it seems to be even worse.
Heavy attacking with bow is annoying and getting cost reduction on jewelry will reduce dps.
While the frontloaded CP will increase dps a bit, I could not sustain selfbuffed without HA.

Jawasa · May 2017

Don't worry about if you do 20 or 40k dps as a casual you wont need over 20k dps. I have done all content in the game outside trials and have the skins from soth vet dungeon achivments. All this on both Templar and sorcerer as dps.

I haven't done a dps test but I'm pretty sure I don't do 40k dps even in a 4 man group buffed and as a casual you don't need too.

hedna123b14_ESO · May 2017

sodantokb16_ESO wrote: »

Arenguros wrote: »

DHale wrote: »

Practice practice practice and bow cannot be a primary dps tool (...)

Why not? This does not look that bad:
tamrielfoundry.com/topic/noss-bo-bo-stamblade-pve-guide/
And looking at the meta dw/bow build the only real difference is the spamable attack and the fact that the bow heavy attack does not auto-fire.

Liofa wrote: »

Animation cancelling + group + rotation + items . If everything I just listed you have is decent , you will hit high numbers . If talking about dummy , take away ''group'' factor and if everything else is still decent , you should hit 35k easily . Group buffs can take it to 60k or even more .

I know what animation cancelling is and I use it to an extent.
Obviously not perfect as I am no robot and I don't use any macros or similar.

sodantokb16_ESO wrote: »

Double probably not. But golden weapons and weaving light attack inbetween would increase your dps both thanks to more damage and to better ultimate generation.

Upgrading my gear from purple to golden did increase my dps by only 2-3k on pts.
As far as ultimate generation is concerned it should be enough to get in one light attack every 8 seconds to keep the buff up, so this is rather forgiving if you mess up weaving every now and then.
Hawk Eye or Siphoning Attacks benefit much more from perfect weaving, but the increase should still be only a few thousand dps, not 15k+

Well, if you go by your 23k dps and not the 13k from live. Dont forget all those builds are for current patch not for the huge sustain nerf patch.
If we ignore that and lets say you have 26k now with gold gear on CURRENT PATCH. With some practice and proper weaving you will reach 30 in no time. (still speaking of bow build). Then after that is the hard part where you need to absolutely optimize your rotation, get someone to apply major fracture (thats like what? maybe another 10% dps increase), get someone to supply you stamina, use pots (stam, crit, brutality) nonstop, get minor berserk (if you arent NB already), optimize CP allocation, make sure you have 100% uptime on all these things (crit, brutality, fracture, berserk, hawk eye,..) stand ~25m far away for full effect of long shots and you should be able to do much better.
I myself have only like 31k bow/bow with slightly different and worse gear, without berserk, without fracture, without getting stamina from someone, without master bow on stam sorc.

The simple fact you use bow severly limits you. Its easier to do higher DPS on classic dw/bow builds.

Without vMA/vDSA weapons bow/bow and DW/Bow builds are on par

SodanTok · May 2017

Arenguros wrote: »

sodantokb16_ESO wrote: »

(...)
I myself have only like 31k bow/bow with slightly different and worse gear, without berserk, without fracture, without getting stamina from someone, without master bow on stam sorc.

The simple fact you use bow severly limits you. Its easier to do higher DPS on classic dw/bow builds.

I'm not sure if I want to be happy or sad that you apparently need to be a god to reach even 35k on a bow build.
What numbers are getting on a dw/bow build with similar gear?

With 3.0 it seems to be even worse.
Heavy attacking with bow is annoying and getting cost reduction on jewelry will reduce dps.
While the frontloaded CP will increase dps a bit, I could not sustain selfbuffed without HA.

You dont need to be good, you need to be very good. But you dont need 35k. Thats trials talk. With those 23-26k you are probably above average DPS in random groups in veteran dungeons.
3.0 will change everything that is true. Bows have the worse possible heavy attacks for that meta and based by some videos I have seen, cost reduction lower DPS so significantly you lose more damage than you gain resources probably. So not worth it (well, maybe one, we will see). I am no expert at bow and with lack of my characters or something less than 200 ping on PTS I cant even test properly how it hits me.

hedna123b14_ESO wrote: »

sodantokb16_ESO wrote: »

Arenguros wrote: »

DHale wrote: »

Practice practice practice and bow cannot be a primary dps tool (...)

Why not? This does not look that bad:
tamrielfoundry.com/topic/noss-bo-bo-stamblade-pve-guide/
And looking at the meta dw/bow build the only real difference is the spamable attack and the fact that the bow heavy attack does not auto-fire.

Liofa wrote: »

Animation cancelling + group + rotation + items . If everything I just listed you have is decent , you will hit high numbers . If talking about dummy , take away ''group'' factor and if everything else is still decent , you should hit 35k easily . Group buffs can take it to 60k or even more .

I know what animation cancelling is and I use it to an extent.
Obviously not perfect as I am no robot and I don't use any macros or similar.

sodantokb16_ESO wrote: »

Double probably not. But golden weapons and weaving light attack inbetween would increase your dps both thanks to more damage and to better ultimate generation.

Upgrading my gear from purple to golden did increase my dps by only 2-3k on pts.
As far as ultimate generation is concerned it should be enough to get in one light attack every 8 seconds to keep the buff up, so this is rather forgiving if you mess up weaving every now and then.
Hawk Eye or Siphoning Attacks benefit much more from perfect weaving, but the increase should still be only a few thousand dps, not 15k+

Well, if you go by your 23k dps and not the 13k from live. Dont forget all those builds are for current patch not for the huge sustain nerf patch.
If we ignore that and lets say you have 26k now with gold gear on CURRENT PATCH. With some practice and proper weaving you will reach 30 in no time. (still speaking of bow build). Then after that is the hard part where you need to absolutely optimize your rotation, get someone to apply major fracture (thats like what? maybe another 10% dps increase), get someone to supply you stamina, use pots (stam, crit, brutality) nonstop, get minor berserk (if you arent NB already), optimize CP allocation, make sure you have 100% uptime on all these things (crit, brutality, fracture, berserk, hawk eye,..) stand ~25m far away for full effect of long shots and you should be able to do much better.
I myself have only like 31k bow/bow with slightly different and worse gear, without berserk, without fracture, without getting stamina from someone, without master bow on stam sorc.

The simple fact you use bow severly limits you. Its easier to do higher DPS on classic dw/bow builds.

Without vMA/vDSA weapons bow/bow and DW/Bow builds are on par

Yeah I know I meant it more in mechanics kind of way. I noticed less experienced people have bigger problems with bow/bow mostly because they fail to keep full hawk eye whole fight or stand at good range for long shots or even weave light/medium attacks with snipe.

theamazingx · May 2017

Chibs wrote: »

Anybody who says they can pull 10k DPS with one skill and mismatched gear is exaggerating greatly, lol. Or they are a Mag Sorc.

An msorc spamming force pulse won't do significantly more than an mdk or an mblade spamming force pulse. An mdk could just sit and spam whip and pull well over 10k.

Arenguros · May 2017

So yeah, with the new PTS and EU now having live chars copied I went and tested with the same conditions as before
(~360CP, crafted/overland epic gear, stam food, no pots, wep dam jewelry, self-buffed, bow main bar).

My dps dropped from the previous 13k to now 11.5k.
A lot of Heavy attacks were needed to sustain, I was barely even using focused aim.

Extrapolating my experiences with the template character and which ways I have to increase dps

In my reach
- getting legendary and more sustain oriented crafted sets
- maximizing CP
- slightly better "rotation"
Not an option for me
- race-changing
- getting vMA or vDA weapons
- getting trial sets
- constantly throwing potions
- somehow transforming into an animation canceling robot

I expect the maximum I will be able to achieve will be around 18k - which is demoralizing.

And regarding "You can just spam one skill for 10k+ dps".
I've tried that also on pts.
With my setup spaming snipe and light attack weaving does 12k, but after 30 seconds no more stamina...

KingYogi415 · May 2017

This game, believe or not, takes skill.

You can't just copy and paste a build and expect to be good.

People pulling that dps have played thousands of hours. On the correct build. Not some double bow roleplay nonsese.

Cheers!

Miss_Morphine · May 2017

Arenguros wrote: »

So now my question is:
Where do these big differences of 40% to even 80% dps increase come from? Rotation, AC, precision in keeping up dots and firing off procs/ults right away.
Can it be true that a few errors regarding weaving / rotation can cost up to half the dps? Yes
Does latency / framerate play a big role here? Yes, though constant drops/rises in FPS seem to lower a parse more than just bad latency/framerate.
Is there some secret I am missing? Are there others with the same problem? No, and yes.

DPS is far from button mashing or clicking as fast as you can. It's about precision. In fact if you do more than 1 ability and 1 weapon attack a second it does absolutely nothing. There is a global cooldown of one ability per second so anything more is just noise that really doesn't matter.
What matters is making sure your dots are running, you use your ult when it's up, you weave in light/med attacks depending on the build, and you keep your buffs/relentless focus up and use the proc as soon as it's up.

Here's an example of a self buffed parse (aside from worm). It is not in BiS gear or anything, and if I remember right wasn't 100% clean.

LA weaves still made up 9.2% of my dammage, and that doesn't take into consideration the fact that weaves are between cooldowns so essentially free DPS. More than that are only the dots, which shows you the importance of keeping those up. It has to be even more precise with dots like endless hail because it does more dammage as time goes on.
Essentially missing 1 thing has a domino effect.
Say you miss light attacks, don't cast dots on time, lose 1 proc or 2 and fire some ults off too late. You have easily lost 40% DPS.

hedna123b14_ESO · May 2017

KingYogi415 wrote: »

This game, believe or not, takes skill.

You can't just copy and paste a build and expect to be good.

People pulling thay dps have played thousands of hours. On the correct build. Not some double bow roleplay nonsese.

Cheers!

Please dont make unsubstantiated statements...double bow can parse just fine...

anitajoneb17_ESO · May 2017

Arenguros wrote: »

On live with the best optimisation I can get, I expect to stay below 20k, which seems to be too low even for vet DLC dungeons.

So now my question is:
Where do these big differences of 40% to even 80% dps increase come from?
Can it be true that a few errors regarding weaving / rotation can cost up to half the dps?
Does latency / framerate play a big role here?
Is there some secret I am missing? Are there others with the same problem?

Looking at other games it almost seems like eso dps is "broken", escpecially since things like animation canceling, weaving, and generally just clicking as fast as possible play such a big role.

Good questions, and welcome to the club.
The 1x=>10x DPS gap between bad and good players in ESO is ridiculous. I've long given up trying to "git gud". The trick is in the weaving/animation canceling/DOT upkeeping, and just as you say, it's all about efficiently clicking buttons, which is not my source of enjoyment in this game.

That being said, you can reach 15-20K DPS by playing casually, just with meaningful gear combinations and a relaxed rotation. Such DPS is already above average (don't think the average forumer reflects the average player) and lets you complete all the content in the game with the only exception of vet trials. Also, don't forget to socialize and make friends you can play and have fun without even thinking who's better or worse and if you're carrying or being carried. Many people care about DPS and efficiency, but many people don't. Find the right people and you'll be fine. Also, don't be afraid to use the group finder with your 20K DPS. That's perfectly acceptable and already above average.

SodanTok · May 2017

Arenguros wrote: »

So yeah, with the new PTS and EU now having live chars copied I went and tested with the same conditions as before
(~360CP, crafted/overland epic gear, stam food, no pots, wep dam jewelry, self-buffed, bow main bar).

My dps dropped from the previous 13k to now 11.5k.
A lot of Heavy attacks were needed to sustain, I was barely even using focused aim.

Extrapolating my experiences with the template character and which ways I have to increase dps
In my reach
- getting legendary and more sustain oriented crafted sets
- maximizing CP
- slightly better "rotation"
Not an option for me
- race-changing
- getting vMA or vDA weapons
- getting trial sets
- constantly throwing potions
- somehow transforming into an animation canceling robot
I expect the maximum I will be able to achieve will be around 18k - which is demoralizing.

And regarding "You can just spam one skill for 10k+ dps".
I've tried that also on pts.
With my setup spaming snipe and light attack weaving does 12k, but after 30 seconds no more stamina...

You still keep saying "no pots" I dont think you get how important they are. You need Major Brutality for higher damage, you need Major Savagery for higher crit chance, you need the Stamina and Major Endurance to sustain. They are more important than legendary gear or better sets (they are basically like 3 sets in one)

//EDIT:
Also dont forget there is lag too. I lost like 5k dps just because i replaced one snipe in rotation with heavy attack and second snipe just got lost because lags and heavy attack takes longer time than snipe would.

zaria · May 2017

Chibs wrote: »

Anybody who says they can pull 10k DPS with one skill and mismatched gear is exaggerating greatly, lol. Or they are a Mag Sorc.

My templar do over 12 dps with just stab, yes that is with gold sharpened staff and purple divine julianos+ mother sorrow.
Sorcerer do worse with just one attack as the sorc pulse is pretty weak.

My problem with the templar is that having an real rotation does not increase my damage much, wall of elements+spear shard+vampires bane takes away time to sweep so dps only goes up to 15k, this is with animation canceling all the time except the shard.
I even made an macro for the entire rotation with not much improvement
Still feels I miss something fundamental like using surge on sorcerer there I went from having problem with 4 mobs to pulling +20 mobs in public dungeons.

Arenguros · May 2017

anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »

Good questions, and welcome to the club.
The 1x=>10x DPS gap between bad and good players in ESO is ridiculous. I've long given up trying to "git gud". The trick is in the weaving/animation canceling/DOT upkeeping, and just as you say, it's all about efficiently clicking buttons, which is not my source of enjoyment in this game.

*high five*
It's really sad how large of a difference this is.

sodantokb16_ESO wrote: »

You still keep saying "no pots" I dont think you get how important they are. You need Major Brutality for higher damage, you need Major Savagery for higher crit chance, you need the Stamina and Major Endurance to sustain. They are more important than legendary gear or better sets (they are basically like 3 sets in one)

I constantly have Mayor Savagery due to Evil Hunter.
I can get Mayor Brutality either from a dk or by using momentum (at least on my bow/2h build).
(At least on live) I did not have any meaningful sustain problems without Mayor Endurance.

On PTS this is different, so thx ZOS for making potions even more mandatory.

Still my tests regarding pot vs no pot showed (depending on build) either a minimal increase or up to 10% (so ~2k on a 19k pts setup).

SodanTok · May 2017

Arenguros wrote: »

anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »

Good questions, and welcome to the club.
The 1x=>10x DPS gap between bad and good players in ESO is ridiculous. I've long given up trying to "git gud". The trick is in the weaving/animation canceling/DOT upkeeping, and just as you say, it's all about efficiently clicking buttons, which is not my source of enjoyment in this game.

*high five*
It's really sad how large of a difference this is.

sodantokb16_ESO wrote: »

You still keep saying "no pots" I dont think you get how important they are. You need Major Brutality for higher damage, you need Major Savagery for higher crit chance, you need the Stamina and Major Endurance to sustain. They are more important than legendary gear or better sets (they are basically like 3 sets in one)

I constantly have Mayor Savagery due to Evil Hunter.
I can get Mayor Brutality either from a dk or by using momentum (at least on my bow/2h build).
(At least on live) I did not have any meaningful sustain problems without Mayor Endurance.

On PTS this is different, so thx ZOS for making potions even more mandatory.

Still my tests regarding pot vs no pot showed (depending on build) either a minimal increase or up to 10% (so ~2k on a 19k pts setup).

Thats great tho. You said your rotations on overall mechanics arent exactly optimal so if you can do close to 20k on PTS with pots, food, gear, etc... then you are probably above average now. From your post i figured you are playing DK? Because on DK you dont have berserk nor long range Major Fracture that could be another 18% DPS increase. I get without these two debuffs 25k on PTS (lags and sustain issue and probably not optimal CP allocation played some part I hope i can get at least back to 30 once Morrowind arrives)

Arenguros · May 2017

sodantokb16_ESO wrote: »

From your post i figured you are playing DK? Because on DK you dont have berserk nor long range Major Fracture that could be another 18% DPS increase.

No, my archer toon is a NB.
What i meant was a DK sharing Igneous Weapons, which has gotten rare, as it's apparently not meta.

I do have minor berserk and I could use mark to get the fracture debuff, but generally won't, as tanks will debuff this in dungeons anyway and I don't want to get used to playing with it.
It wasn't a huge dps increase on my usual bow/2h bar, as the buff cycle on my offbar would become so long I'd drop Hawk Eye everytime...

SodanTok · May 2017

Arenguros wrote: »

sodantokb16_ESO wrote: »

From your post i figured you are playing DK? Because on DK you dont have berserk nor long range Major Fracture that could be another 18% DPS increase.

No, my archer toon is a NB.
What i meant was a DK sharing Igneous Weapons, which has gotten rare, as it's apparently not meta.

I do have minor berserk and I could use mark to get the fracture debuff, but generally won't, as tanks will debuff this in dungeons anyway and I don't want to get used to playing with it.
It wasn't a huge dps increase on my usual bow/2h bar, as the buff cycle on my offbar would become so long I'd drop Hawk Eye everytime...

Well you should light attack before every cast of a skill. But overall I just meant it in regards to your DPS and DPS of builds you use. Like the 38k dps bow/bow parses is with both berserk and major fracture.

Anyway, you should definitely start using pots. There are no good DPS boosts from pots other than brutality, savagery and the stamina sustain so having these buffs from skills is waste of slot (and not using pots is waste of very important game mechanic). To say it loud and clear: YOU NEED them for good DPS. More than having perfect rotations or being perfect at animation canceling.

a_dangeli91b16_ESO · November 2017

I see so many threads of people like him who have my same problem of less-than-half what is considered "easy" to achieve dps, and in every thread all the commenters are missing the point...

I'm sorry guys but everyone is focusing on things that make the difference between good players and the best players, while we are just trying to understand what is the huge issue that we can't pinpoint that is making us exactly half as effective as anyone else doing the same thing with the same build...