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Play How You Want + Healers in the Morrowind Update

sirtadzio
sirtadzio
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This is a repost from the closed forum since it doesn't breach NDA, and so others would have the chance to read it:

I would like to have a discussion about ZoS's concept of competitive PvE trial healer with the direction they are taking for next patch. Please note I am basing this discussion around score runs in vSO, vAA, vHRC, vMoL and vHoF...not PVP, not vDSA, not Crowswood, Fungal Grotto, or that delve near the way shrine in Malabol Tor. I'm also not discussing the warden quite yet, as I really believe we need to let things settle there a bit before we can do a true detailed analysis and comparison.

This is in light of the recent ESO Live, where it was stated that we should feel comfortable bringing for example, a DK healer or NB healer into a raid; for the record I have successfully healed all craglorn HM trials with a DK, NB and Sorc healer, and have come within a few %'s of clearing vmol HM on a NB healer, although I haven't put much time into actually pursuing that. I also want to establish that I would never bring these toons on a dedicated scored run, nor do I believe they are anywhere near as strong as a Templar.

So if we are to look at this idea of 'bring whatever class you'd like' to a competitive raid, I'd like to examine the functionality of each class as a healer, and then determine the suitability of brining non-templars into a competitive raid environment.

First- Base line skills for a PvE healer (not a hard an fast rule, but a collection of skills you could expect to see in most situations, exceptions and preference apply): Healing Springs, Combat Prayer, Ele Drain, Inner Light, Harness magic, Orbs. War Horn. Cleanse.

*Not counting lightning wall due to incoming heavy attack meta...

There are 8 skills that are fairly standard, out of the 12 you can slot, all of which are non class skills. So those remaining skills that you pick from your class skill line, should really be a deal breaker in terms of who you are bringing into the trial....

Analysis:
Templar: Breath of Life, Ritual, Channeled Focus, Shards, Power of the light, Nova.... So here we have a burst heal, a persistent HoT with a cleanse synergy, resource return synergy, minor breach debuff, damage mitigation. Casting PoL also grants group minor sorcery, and personal ulti regen via passives. Rune gives good buff to resistances and mana regen (useful for sustain nerfs). Potential to have 100% uptime on minor mending.
Verdict: Excellent! Burst heal is important, persistent HoT from ritual helps keep uptime on SPC and cleanse bonus, shards for added utility.


DK: Igneous Shield, Igneous Weapons (or molten armaments), Hardened armor, Cauterize, Choking Talons/Chains...umm..Magma Shell? Lots of situational things here...Talons and Chains are often redundant as they overlap with tanks, and don't really offer extra utility on boss fights. Hardened armor is your personal resistance buff (dead healer doesn't help the group)...Igneous Shield will to get a brief second of major mending + a tiny group shield, igneous weapons is a nice 33 second source of major sorcery/brutality. If you needed a massive shield ult for your group, not sure why you would use magma shell over a Barrier Morph.

Verdict: Meh. Fun for casual runs when you're just messing around, but doesn't offer tons of group play bonuses. Igneous shield from a healer is almost a mana sink. It's such a small shield (even with a number of points into Bastion) that it's mostly useful for the brief flash of major mending,. Cauterize, while it is a healing morph, is SUPER lack luster. Sure you get major prophecy, but activating it for the heal only gives you 3 small, single target heals over a period of 15 seconds- would rather have inner light for the extra magica if I had to choose.

Night Blade: Refreshing Path; Funnel Health; Mark Target; Siphoning Attacks??; Soul Siphon; Veil; Sap Essence? Idk???: Refreshing Path is a HoT...I've actually seen it heal more over time than the templar ritual, except that it's tiny and has no synergy...people can run a bit faster for a second...not a game changer. Funnel Health- negligible DPS addition from a healer, insignificant heal when you have a whole raid to take care of. Same thing with Sap essence- when my group needs big heals and buffs, there isn't really a convenient time to stand in the middle of everything and spam sap. Mark Target- nice debuff, although that is overlapping with the tank already. Soul Siphon- its a big heal and its interesting to have Major Vitality for a whole 4 seconds; with 150ultimate cost, its really not practical in a trial setting. Veil: Actually useful! Major Protection is helpful to have, especially with the 15+ second duration.

Verdict: Rip. Really nothing useful here for end game vet trials other than Veil...

Sorcs: Twilight Matriarch; Empowered Ward; Bound Aegis; Aegis Streak?; Dark Conversion? Boundless Storm? Absorption Field
People have called Twilight Matriarch akin to a breath of life...except now you have to double bar it, and control an AI pet that can hypothetically get killed. To me, BoL wins the comparison battle here. Bound Aegis: Minor resolve, minor ward and extra mana. Survivability is great, although again, you need to double bar the skill. Empowered ward, big shield with group minor intellect buff. Streak for mobility if you want, Dark conversion if you have time to channel for more resources. Boundless storm for even more survivability. Absorption Field, mediocre healing plus a negate- don't need tons of negates in trials, but barring no other unique class skill available I guess you could use this instead of a DPS in the few places you would drop a negate to save a DPS having to do it.

Verdict: Rip+: again, lack of substantial group enhancing skills. Night blades at least get increased healing for each siphoning skill slotted. Sorcs get no innate healing boost. Their passives are however nice for boosted stats..
___________

Discussion:
So even with nerfing templars with major mending, shards +orbs on CD together, etc. I'm struggling to find the incentive to pick another of the original classes as a main healer, or even as an attractive healer option for score runs. The benefits that the templar offers the group are too substantial to bring along my night blade "because I feel like it". I recognize that it can be hard to "buff" the healing capability of other classes as that would make them OP as dps players in any of the content, but imaginably it could be done. For example, DK is arguably the closest to being able to compete kit wise with a templar- but it would help if Cauterize wasn't such a god awful skill. If you're going to intentionally give me a healing morph of an ability, I'd like for it to heal more than 3 people in a 15 second period for a lackluster amount.
Now, all of these passives have group buffs that are added already to the group either from tanks or dps characters doing their normal rotation. Even without templar healers, a dps can drop ritual for people to synergize a cleanse. Really the only thing a templar healer brings is their increased healing done, a burst heal, and the excellent HoT from their ritual to keep SPC buff topped off- the other classes simply don't have as powerful of burst heal and HoT's, leaving templar as BiS.
Ultimately what I'm trying to get at with this post is this (aka TL;DR)
One of two things need to happen:
1) Admit and accept that Templars are the primary healing class of the game, and stop hitting them with the nerf gun.
OR
2) Nerf templars a bit, but if you want us to feel comfortable picking other classes, you need to give us incentives to choose those classes, as opposed to de-incetivizing us away from templars. I would actually be all onboard if other classes had more unique class based healing quirks that, maybe wouldn't make them BiS all the time, but would give me reason to pick them in a specific trial for a specific reason due to what they can bring the group.
~Who needs sustain when repentance is a free cast? ~

PvE Healer
Epic Synergy Officer (NA)
Aetherial Remnants Officer (NA)
Core team healer with Epic Synergy and What Mechanics.
CP110 on EU - Looking for more Friends!
  • Doctordarkspawn
    Doctordarkspawn
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    Precisely.

    Crap or get off the pot. If you want to make every roll every class, give all classes the ammount of versitility Templar has, or stop hitting Temp with the nerf gun.

    But then, you should probably question whether people -want- the first.
    Edited by Doctordarkspawn on April 30, 2017 1:53AM
    PAWS (Positively Against Wrip-off Stuff) - Say No to Crown Crates!

    To me, the measure of a man is whether or not he fights for his principles. It does not matter if you never had a chance to begin with. The deck could be stacked, the game rigged against you. You fight to the bitter end, because it is worth fighting for.

    NA-PC Tank player only.
  • D0ntevenL1ft
    D0ntevenL1ft
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    There is no X is the primary (tank, heal, or dps) class of the game since ZOS has removed class specific attributes little by little over the past several updates.

    They are forcing every single class into the same, boring, little variation lifestyle. rip.
  • sirtadzio
    sirtadzio
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    There is no X is the primary (tank, heal, or dps) class of the game since ZOS has removed class specific attributes little by little over the past several updates.

    They are forcing every single class into the same, boring, little variation lifestyle. rip.

    Agreed- there has been a lot that has been homogenized, yet Templar still is your BiS healer pick when you actually analyze the comparative advantages they have. They still have a) The most consistent uptime for healing buff (minor mending), b) strongest burst heal (Breath of Life) and c) most effective class based HoT. Combined with their channeled focus to powerfully increase regeneration and mitigation, and provide minor mending all in one cast, they are best suited for morrow wind PVE competitive trials.

    As I laid out in the analysis of my original post, the remaining uniqueness of the each classes kit doesn't provide incentive to play any of the original classes over the templar in competitive raids. Further, increased homogenization or templar nerfs won't make me want to heal with another class until they can provide me an equally attractive alternative to what a templar can provide my raid team.
    ~Who needs sustain when repentance is a free cast? ~

    PvE Healer
    Epic Synergy Officer (NA)
    Aetherial Remnants Officer (NA)
    Core team healer with Epic Synergy and What Mechanics.
    CP110 on EU - Looking for more Friends!
  • itsjeepers
    itsjeepers
    Soul Shriven
    hello
  • Joy_Division
    Joy_Division
    Class Representative
    Nice analysis. I noticed your options are rather limited. I see ZoS's nerf fetish is beginning to infect the ESO community.

    There is a third option you know: make it so the other classes offer something that Templars do not.
    Edited by Joy_Division on April 30, 2017 6:14AM
  • Sacredx
    Sacredx
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    Why has the Warden class not even been mentioned?
    PC NA PvP Oceanic
    The Kelly Gang [TKG]
    Highest kill streak: https://i.imgur.com/V6jJhoy.png
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  • actosh
    actosh
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    There is a third option you know: make it so the other classes offer something that Templars do not.

    Its the same issue with tanks.

  • sirtadzio
    sirtadzio
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    Nice analysis. I noticed your options are rather limited. I see ZoS's nerf fetish is beginning to infect the ESO community.

    There is a third option you know: make it so the other classes offer something that Templars do not.

    Thanks for chiming in Joy :)
    The third option is what I was trying to imply with my second option. If they would like any class to be able to heal, there needs to be an incentive in their kits to make them an attractive choice, so that I am making a conscious choice to lose out on a templar skill, but advantageously gain something from say, a DK skill.

    @Sacredx - I didn't make reference to the warden for three reasons: 1) while I have played around with a Warden, I want more time with it in a competitive trial setting to get a better sense of where it stands. 2) ZoS has stated should feel comfortable with ANY class as a healer. So as long as that argument doesn't hold true for even 1 class, they are incorrect with their statement and how they have crafted the game, and I believe I have proven that is so on 3 different fronts. 3) Not 100% sure about NDA
    ~Who needs sustain when repentance is a free cast? ~

    PvE Healer
    Epic Synergy Officer (NA)
    Aetherial Remnants Officer (NA)
    Core team healer with Epic Synergy and What Mechanics.
    CP110 on EU - Looking for more Friends!
  • Vaoh
    Vaoh
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    Fantastic post. I'm gonna make a thread to follow up on this tomorrow with suggestions on how to make other classes viable for healing, as well as un-nerf Templars a bit.

    If ZoS replaced the atrociously weak morphs of some skills that have like 0.001% of players slotting it for more than a few minutes with support morphs, we'd have reason to choose non-Templar/Warden healers.
  • Elsterchen
    Elsterchen
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    actosh wrote: »
    There is a third option you know: make it so the other classes offer something that Templars do not.

    Its the same issue with tanks.

    ... as well as DDs.

    If classes are to remain unique, and despite a comprehensive vision of what is to come ZOS keeps on repeating that classes are meant to be unique, there can only be this third option.

    The thing that (still) amuses me is that ppl complain about beeing not on par with templar healing while having a blind spot for templars not beeing on par with nightblade sneakiness, DDs DPS (its at best situational!) and a tanks tankiness (again, at the best its situational). With next patch at least 2 other classes have a chance at beeing just AS GOOD AS templars in healing (sorcs and DKs) ... yet that isn't enough.

    Save your breath,I won't argue anymore, I said my piece. Just wait for next year or the year thereafter when your favourite class gets ripped of whatever made them special and admirable and have it distributed to everyone. We will see how much fun thats gonna be.

    edit: ... and just so: I don't even play a healer templar, I seriously couldn't care less if any other class takes up this specific role as their "unique"-thing. However, it IS the very last thing ZOS left templars to do as they butchered and tweaked that class along the way from beta in 2014. Again, my complain isn't about who doesn't do whatever best anymore, as it stands templars just wont do ANYTHING unique or special AT ALL. And that is what my mourning and drama is about. Honestly, looking at how NBs are treated ... I should just shut up and be glad as templars will at least be viable. Yet, beeing unique (as even ZOS claims they are supposed to be) and beeing viable are 2 very different pairs of socks.
    Edited by Elsterchen on April 30, 2017 7:23AM
  • Calandrae
    Calandrae
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    I would also like to point out that if ZoS keeps just ripping off and nerfing templars instead of developing other classes and leaving templars alone, there will not be any really good healing classes/builds left in the game.

    Some people seem to relish the thought because they believe it's going to open possibilities for their sorc healers or whatever. That seems like a very selfish way of thinking, because whole raid teams (and playstyles) are going to suffer when healing and support is made weaker and less effecive.

    But to some pretty vocal ones the destruction of templar healers seems to be more important than actually adding diversity/choice.
  • Aionna
    Aionna
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    With the same logic, why bring any other class for dd except sorcs because they do the best damage and have better sustain, dk is better at tanking so why bring another and so on...

    Let's nerf everyone !

    Note: dks give minor brutality to the group , nightblades minor savagery and sorc minor prophecy...i think these weren't mentioned or they resources each class gets back by slotting or activating their abilities.
    Edited by Aionna on April 30, 2017 7:34AM
  • Sacredx
    Sacredx
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    sirtadzio wrote: »
    @Sacredx - I didn't make reference to the warden for three reasons: 1) while I have played around with a Warden, I want more time with it in a competitive trial setting to get a better sense of where it stands. 2) ZoS has stated should feel comfortable with ANY class as a healer. So as long as that argument doesn't hold true for even 1 class, they are incorrect with their statement and how they have crafted the game, and I believe I have proven that is so on 3 different fronts. 3) Not 100% sure about NDA

    You could have at least mentioned that there is a warden class with healing abilities that needs to be looked at. All you have proven is that the game is not balanced. 95% of the population that don't do trials and just play casually doing questing and an odd dungeon/pledge rping will do just fune as long as each role has made some effort to have the right skills of their bar (ie healer having heal skills, not just dps). Worst case a player can just use a weapon and its abilities to do whatever role they a meant for, no class skills required. And this holds up for ZoS case that all classes should be able to perform any role because 95% of the game pop is casual.

    Don't get me wrong I would love them to fix the balancing for the end game content.
    PC NA PvP Oceanic
    The Kelly Gang [TKG]
    Highest kill streak: https://i.imgur.com/V6jJhoy.png
    KB sample: https://i.imgur.com/n7TFyZr.png
    TKG raid sample: https://youtube.com/watch?v=RkrsHg3T7pc
  • Zagnut123Zagnut123
    Zagnut123Zagnut123
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    itsjeepers wrote: »
    hello

    Hello
  • lunalitetempler
    lunalitetempler
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    There is no X is the primary (tank, heal, or dps) class of the game since ZOS has removed class specific attributes little by little over the past several updates.

    They are forcing every single class into the same, boring, little variation lifestyle. rip.

    Its kinda great if your loyal to one character like me, I play all roles as Templer. Great stuff!
  • Sinolai
    Sinolai
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    Sacredx wrote: »
    Why has the Warden class not even been mentioned?
    sirtadzio wrote: »
    This is a repost from the closed forum since it doesn't breach NDA, and so others would have the chance to read it:

    I'm also not discussing the warden quite yet, as I really believe we need to let things settle there a bit before we can do a true detailed analysis and comparison.

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