Delves too Formulaic: Missing Adventure and Exploration

GrumpyDuckling · April 2017

Shgon_Dunstan wrote: »

And on the issue of puzzles and locks... Huh? ESO is way better then past TES games in that department.

I wouldn't mind a few more locked doors. In the very first quest of the game we have to pick a locked door to progress. How many other locked doors are there that can be lock-picked in the base game (non DLC)?

I have a bajillion (official number) lockpicks on most of my characters.

Syntse · April 2017

GrumpyDuckling wrote: »

Shgon_Dunstan wrote: »

And on the issue of puzzles and locks... Huh? ESO is way better then past TES games in that department.

I wouldn't mind a few more locked doors. In the very first quest of the game we have to pick a locked door to progress. How many other locked doors are there that can be lock-picked in the base game (non DLC)?

I have a bajillion (official number) lockpicks on most of my characters.

No locked doors in delves or quests but plenty locked doors if you are going for stealing stuff from peoples houses.

playsforfun · April 2017

it wasn't so bad before they'd dumb everything down so much to were you're just one hitting mobs and mini bosses even with 0 cp

Nestor · April 2017

GrumpyDuckling wrote: »

What have they changed other than giving the delve boss waist and feet drops for overland sets?

Go to Hildunes Secret Refuge in Rivenspire near Northpoint. Its the one that has an entrance in a house. Anyway, all Delves looked pretty much like this one did. Basically a D shape with the Boss at the end. Delves are way better than they used to be.

As far as depth, sure their could be more, their could be more depth in everything in this game. But, they do serve the purpose they need to serve, which is provide mobs to farm, a Boss to kill and loot and sometimes a quest or two.

Also, there is a story in every delve, sometimes it is related to the quest, sometimes it is spelled out in a book or leaflet, sometimes you just have to figure it out by the clues left behind.

I don't know if they are finished with the Delve Project, as some of them seem to be changed recently. I can also see where the boss should be, but it is still in the original position. So, maybe they have more in store for those.

Xylphan · April 2017

I'm all for adding complexity as long as it isn't stupid "parkor" type crap. That's fine in special events (maybe) but if I want to play a platformer I'll load one up on a console. Nothing irritates me more than instant death or having to re-run the last 15 minutes of some dungeon because of a freakin' lag spike.

That's one of the things that drove me away from GW2 was all the "must jump perfectly or instantly die/fail" crap they started throwing in (HoT, Fractals, etc.). MMO does not stand for Mario Mastery Online.

Zardayne · April 2017

GrumpyDuckling wrote: »

Compared to other TES games which inspire feelings of spontaneity and adventure, ESO feels formulaic and simple - and I think the main reason is because the delve experience is too shallow and lacks deeply rich, challenging, and bountiful adventures.

The formula for almost every delve in the game is as follows: Enter, take care of trash mobs, grab your skyshard, defeat the delve boss, and leave. Delves do not contain enough:

- depth
- treacherous terrain
- traps
- locked doors
- environmental obstacles
- chests with worthwhile loot
- unique enemies
- unique npcs
- choices/consequences
- companions/followers
- lootable items
- interactive environments
- etc.

I'm not saying that every delve has to have all that is listed above, but it would be great if ZOS could strive for such a task. The potential is there; I have seen it. Play the quest "Brothers and Bandits," in Malabal Tor, and you'll see what I mean. It's the start of a great delve experience. It has a quest with consequences and choices that tug at your heart strings. I just wish there was more to it - the delve is simple and everything can be completed in a few minutes. The basic premise is there for an enjoyable experience, but the adventure suffers because the delve is too shallow.

I am aware of the fundamental differences between single player RPGs and online, multiplayer MMOs, so no... I am not expecting ESO to be Skyrim. I do think, however that ZOS could learn a lot about adventure and exploration from other TES games. Hopefully, in the future, they'll inject more sense of adventure and exploration into their delves. Thanks for hearing me out.

I agree wholeheartedly. I've been thinking the same for 3 years now..When you know the boss is at the end and there's nothing but some trash mobs in between it loses the "adventure" pretty fast.

They need some roaming Lt. mobs, traps that will kill you, and if they would fix the jumping animation some of those treacherous jumps like GW2 and Asheron's Call had. I mean hell, if you die in this game you can just respawn without much damaged except some pride.

Blackmoon777 · April 2017

and what you think about really big dungeons but without a map!
if u get lost you could just port back to wayshrine
some dungeons could have hidden treasures or for example "harvesting spots" with many ores to harvest or mashrooms to gather

DragonBound · April 2017

GrumpyDuckling wrote: »

Compared to other TES games which inspire feelings of spontaneity and adventure, ESO feels formulaic and simple - and I think the main reason is because the delve experience is too shallow and lacks deeply rich, challenging, and bountiful adventures.

The formula for almost every delve in the game is as follows: Enter, take care of trash mobs, grab your skyshard, defeat the delve boss, and leave. Delves do not contain enough:

- depth
- treacherous terrain
- traps
- locked doors
- environmental obstacles
- chests with worthwhile loot
- unique enemies
- unique npcs
- choices/consequences
- companions/followers
- lootable items
- interactive environments
- etc.

I'm not saying that every delve has to have all that is listed above, but it would be great if ZOS could strive for such a task. The potential is there; I have seen it. Play the quest "Brothers and Bandits," in Malabal Tor, and you'll see what I mean. It's the start of a great delve experience. It has a quest with consequences and choices that tug at your heart strings. I just wish there was more to it - the delve is simple and everything can be completed in a few minutes. The basic premise is there for an enjoyable experience, but the adventure suffers because the delve is too shallow.

I am aware of the fundamental differences between single player RPGs and online, multiplayer MMOs, so no... I am not expecting ESO to be Skyrim. I do think, however that ZOS could learn a lot about adventure and exploration from other TES games. Hopefully, in the future, they'll inject more sense of adventure and exploration into their delves. Thanks for hearing me out.

I could not agree more.

Merlin13KAGL · April 2017

Shgon_Dunstan wrote: »

GrumpyDuckling wrote: »

Compared to other TES games which inspire feelings of spontaneity and adventure, ESO feels formulaic and simple -

... You mean Skyrim?

Half the dungeons in Morrowind and Oblivion were pretty much just copy & paste. Arena's were largely the exact same... Indeed, about the only other one you could be talking about is Daggerfall, for all of it almost literally copy & pasting... "spontaneity and adventure" aren't exactly the words I'd use for it. -_-

I think you might be confused.

There may have been certain aspects and assets seen in multiple dungeons, obviously, but to say most were the same?

I get the feeling you missed a few, and by a few, I mean most...

Tombs were about the only things that would bear similarity to one another, and rightfully so.

Shgon_Dunstan · April 2017

Merlin13KAGL wrote: »

Shgon_Dunstan wrote: »

GrumpyDuckling wrote: »

Compared to other TES games which inspire feelings of spontaneity and adventure, ESO feels formulaic and simple -

... You mean Skyrim?

Half the dungeons in Morrowind and Oblivion were pretty much just copy & paste. Arena's were largely the exact same... Indeed, about the only other one you could be talking about is Daggerfall, for all of it almost literally copy & pasting... "spontaneity and adventure" aren't exactly the words I'd use for it. -_-

I think you might be confused.

There may have been certain aspects and assets seen in multiple dungeons, obviously, but to say most were the same?

I get the feeling you missed a few, and by a few, I mean most...

Tombs were about the only things that would bear similarity to one another, and rightfully so.

... No, it's you who are wearing the rosy nostalgia glasses. Aside from some story or some guild quest dungeons, they were no less identical then the ones in ESO.

lientier · April 2017

I found most delves always more of a chore (to get everything completed), and was happy when they were just a small circuit. So I dont really like them. I like the delves in hew's bane though.. and fortunately they were only 2..
otherwise I pretty much detested most of them.. but then I dont like the gloomy underground thing.. in skyrim atleast you could also enter some caves where there were no monsters.. and some where just really short or small other really long.. and I didnt really like the long ones either.. I like the open landscape..

phileunderx2 · April 2017

Bahrahas gloom in hews bane is my favorite.

GrumpyDuckling · April 2017

lientier wrote: »

I found most delves always more of a chore (to get everything completed), and was happy when they were just a small circuit. So I dont really like them. I like the delves in hew's bane though.. and fortunately they were only 2..
otherwise I pretty much detested most of them.. but then I dont like the gloomy underground thing.. in skyrim atleast you could also enter some caves where there were no monsters.. and some where just really short or small other really long.. and I didnt really like the long ones either.. I like the open landscape..

I understand the "chore" perspective - and I think it has a lot to do with most base game delves being designed with the same formula.

Aesthetically speaking, occasionally you'll come across a cool indoor waterfall with sunlight beaming through so it doesn't feel as gloomy, but those seem more rare. It would be cool to get area-designed themed delves that differ from what already exists. Examples:

- Tree-themed Bosmer delve
- Water/Swamp-themed Argonian delve (would be awesome, but unfortunately no underwater swimming in ESO)