Delves too Formulaic: Missing Adventure and Exploration

GrumpyDuckling · April 2017

Compared to other TES games which inspire feelings of spontaneity and adventure, ESO feels formulaic and simple - and I think the main reason is because the delve experience is too shallow and lacks deeply rich, challenging, and bountiful adventures.

The formula for almost every delve in the game is as follows: Enter, take care of trash mobs, grab your skyshard, defeat the delve boss, and leave. Delves do not contain enough:

- depth
- treacherous terrain
- traps
- locked doors
- environmental obstacles
- chests with worthwhile loot
- unique enemies
- unique npcs
- choices/consequences
- companions/followers
- lootable items
- interactive environments
- etc.

I'm not saying that every delve has to have all that is listed above, but it would be great if ZOS could strive for such a task. The potential is there; I have seen it. Play the quest "Brothers and Bandits," in Malabal Tor, and you'll see what I mean. It's the start of a great delve experience. It has a quest with consequences and choices that tug at your heart strings. I just wish there was more to it - the delve is simple and everything can be completed in a few minutes. The basic premise is there for an enjoyable experience, but the adventure suffers because the delve is too shallow.

I am aware of the fundamental differences between single player RPGs and online, multiplayer MMOs, so no... I am not expecting ESO to be Skyrim. I do think, however that ZOS could learn a lot about adventure and exploration from other TES games. Hopefully, in the future, they'll inject more sense of adventure and exploration into their delves. Thanks for hearing me out.

DanaDark · April 2017

Honestly a little underwhelmed with delves.

Personally, I think they should be mainly meant for solo, maybe duos. We already have dungeons for full groups.

I would like to see:
A little larger maps
Small quests added in
Puzzles of various sorts

Overall, I like them a lot, glad they are in, but surely could use for a little extra excitement in them.

Browiseth · April 2017

you're talking like the elder scrolls games have rich detail in their worlds and areas in which you explore

the reality is everything looks very pretty and impressive but it's as deep as a puddle

if anything ESO is just continuing the tradition

Capt_Morgan · April 2017

You should have seen them at launch. While ZoS has done nothing but remove aspects of every class you have to admit they've done a pretty bang up job with the world itself. Delves are miles ahead of what they once were.

GrumpyDuckling · April 2017

Capt_Morgan wrote: »

You should have seen them at launch. While ZoS has done nothing but remove aspects of every class you have to admit they've done a pretty bang up job with the world itself. Delves are miles ahead of what they once were.

What have they changed other than giving the delve boss waist and feet drops for overland sets?

Capt_Morgan · April 2017

It used to be only like three or four layouts. Literally every other delve you went into would he exactly the same, just different mobs.

Capt_Morgan · April 2017

The one right outside glenumbras main city is a good example of it. Think of it as if every delve was that same one, but some with Zombies, some with rats, and some with people. But yeah, they used to be all the same pretty much. Was one of the biggest gripes people had at launch.

GrumpyDuckling · April 2017

Capt_Morgan wrote: »

It used to be only like three or four layouts. Literally every other delve you went into would he exactly the same, just different mobs.

Hmm that sounds good, it means they're not opposed to upgrading delves.

max_only · April 2017

Have you tried one from the dlc? I just started some of the dlc content and I was so effing impressed with one in Hew's Bane.

You climb along the ceiling rafters to the secret room to find the skyshard! I was so impressed.

henrycupcakerwb17_ESO · April 2017

So you are looking for a real game offering true dungeon experience like Everquest did
I suggest you keep an eye on Pantheon : rise of the fallen

obscure7 · April 2017

The best delves are in Craglorn
then the 2 in Hew's Bane

after that they are definitely formulaic. Some have more interesting stories/environments, but those 2 zones have the best delves if you're looking for something different.

blacksghost · April 2017

We can get accustomed to them faster that they can create them...Ever felt like a lab rat in the same maze?

Syntse · April 2017

Capt_Morgan wrote: »

It used to be only like three or four layouts. Literally every other delve you went into would he exactly the same, just different mobs.

oh the times

VShane · April 2017

The only game I ever played that felt like it challenged all of your characters skills was DnD online

GrumpyDuckling · April 2017

Syntse wrote: »

Capt_Morgan wrote: »

It used to be only like three or four layouts. Literally every other delve you went into would he exactly the same, just different mobs.

oh the times

Haha wow, that's an incredible image.

Ulfgarde · April 2017

Used to be such Copy and Paste. They're much more unique, longer, and complex than before. The image is a great display of how the Forums will continue to complain about crap that was worse off before.

Try Craglorn / DLC dungeons. If you wanted more Skyrim-esque dungeons, go play Skyrim.

Amadis001 · April 2017

Delves are fun and a challenge for very new players leveling for the first time. They serve a definite purpose for lowbies before they can handle themselves in public dungeons. They become routine (grab skyshard, kill boss, find quick quest for XP) anyone with CP (or maybe earlier for some players).

Rescorla_ESO · April 2017

I would like to see Delves converted to solo instances and the difficulty of the mobs inside increased to the point they are a lot tougher than overland mobs. A possible option is that the mobs in delves scale to your CP value.

Incorporating some kind of puzzles, traps, etc with unique boss encounters and unique loot would make the game significantly more enjoyable for solo players.

I guess the point I am trying to make is that the level of detail that ZOS put into group dungeons and trials would be nice to see in delves. Wishful thinking I know.

Sakiri · April 2017

When they were first announced, my bf(then) thought they'd be instanced and designed for solo or pairs.

Cryptical · April 2017

Well, to be fair it's a hell of a lot of work laying out a design like vaults of madness, the prison, the cradle maze, city of ash 2, etc.

Ever done such a layout? Lot of tedious work.

Get your feet wet. Download Quake, it's free, and a map creator. Google tells me this one called TrenchBroom is good. Start simple, try to roughly duplicate some of the easiest delves.

Moloch1514 · April 2017

Cryptical wrote: »

Well, to be fair it's a hell of a lot of work laying out a design like vaults of madness, the prison, the cradle maze, city of ash 2, etc.

Ever done such a layout? Lot of tedious work.

Get your feet wet. Download Quake, it's free, and a map creator. Google tells me this one called TrenchBroom is good. Start simple, try to roughly duplicate some of the easiest delves.

To be fair, those people get paid a salary to do that work full time. Just like we saw in housing, ZOS loves the copy/paste function when they can get away with it.

GrumpyDuckling · April 2017

Ulfgarde wrote: »

Used to be such Copy and Paste. They're much more unique, longer, and complex than before. The image is a great display of how the Forums will continue to complain about crap that was worse off before.

Try Craglorn / DLC dungeons. If you wanted more Skyrim-esque dungeons, go play Skyrim.

Just because delves used to be worse doesn't mean that they still can't be and shouldn't be improved. The game lacks exploration and improved delves would definitely help.

Tasear · April 2017

I want a pitfall where you will only be aware of if you listen to the npc. That will teach us not to skip the dialog!

t3hdubzy · April 2017

U mean u dont like the go here, kill stuff press x on said item, return to quest giver type of game that takes no skill, and zero brain power?

Jollygoodusername · April 2017

Compounded by the fact I have to traverse them so many times, to get a Skyshard for every new character.
Seriously, I haven't even spent a weeks time playing and already know that Mount upgrades and Skyshards should be global account/server wide after obtaining them.

S1ipperyJim · April 2017

Agreed. Delves feel very cut and paste. I wish they were more like public dungeons which have unique aspects and themes.

QuebraRegra · April 2017

VShane wrote: »

The only game I ever played that felt like it challenged all of your characters skills was DnD online

THIS!

because delves/dungeons should offer more of a challenge/variety beyond just mobs and bosses. Look at the variations in traps from OBLIVION even!!! Trap detection/disarming should be at least passives for the LEGERDEMAIN, and should be required to explore certain dungeon areas. Sure a sorc could just shield up and take the dmg, but maybe some traps like the insta-death crushing floors/ceilings like OBLIVION would provide more of s challenge.

Shgon_Dunstan · April 2017

GrumpyDuckling wrote: »

Compared to other TES games which inspire feelings of spontaneity and adventure, ESO feels formulaic and simple -

... You mean Skyrim?

Half the dungeons in Morrowind and Oblivion were pretty much just copy & paste. Arena's were largely the exact same... Indeed, about the only other one you could be talking about is Daggerfall, for all of it almost literally copy & pasting... "spontaneity and adventure" aren't exactly the words I'd use for it. -_-

Lavennin · April 2017

Having unique quests may not be very practical (and if only for a selective few delves, it won't be a big improvement), but more puzzles/traps sounds cool. A hidden treasure chamber not seen on map, maybe? An optional boss that spawns only after fulfilling some weird requirements? Lock mechanism, Skyrim-style?Would make it more an exploration and less a shard-boss-exit.

Shgon_Dunstan · April 2017

And on the issue of puzzles and locks... Huh? ESO is way better then past TES games in that department.

Lavennin · April 2017

Shgon_Dunstan wrote: »

And on the issue of puzzles and locks... Huh? ESO is way better then past TES games in that department.

One thing past TES games have but ESO doesn't is the atmosphere. Because delves aren't instanced, you are rarely alone and there's skill effect everywhere. A boss goes down in seconds. No amount of high resolution texture and ambient sound could help it.

So the laughable traps and silly puzzles of other TES games actually have more of an impact on the gameplay, at least in my experience.

Not saying the delves should be instanced though.