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Do you think being overly dramatic helps your case?

scorpiodog
scorpiodog
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I think the vast majority of the people on this forum are perfectly reasonable in their daily lives. They might write factually accurate and balanced papers for college and get an A+, or they might write daily reports for work that are completely professional and balanced. They might even evaluate the potential of companies to produce a profit into the future.

Then apparently they come to this forum and something strange happens.

They want to convince a company to change their business strategy going forward but they do everything in their post to guarantee that any normal person will just ignore them.

For the small minority who might not know - here are some things to avoid in written communication if you want to get your point across:
- DRAMATIC LANGUAGE IN ALL CAPS!!! If I see all caps in an email, I immediately think "nutter" and save it for last or just ignore it completely.
- Insulting language. Frankly if a client gets rude or insulting with me at my work they can find someone else to do their work. I don't need their money that bad.
- Taking things personally that affect everyone: No, Zenimax is not singling you or your group out. They are not "***ting on you.
- Obvious bias: The presumption will be that you want your way. You have to go above and beyond to show that your opinion is not biased.
- Stupid assumptions / questions: "If you care about your business / customers, ZOS..." Come on, people. Use your head. Of course they are doing their best and care about both their business and their customers.
- Appeal to the mob: "Hey guys! They're terrible! Hear that, Mr. Company! I told everyone you are terrible. Now listen to me>"
- Try to discourage sales: If you don't do everything I say exactly how I want I'll say bad things about you. (esp on my youtube TM channel)
- They owe you in perpetuity: You bought a game / subscription / DLC. You probably bought more than one, even several. But they don't "owe" you to the degree that many people want to believe. For example, your $40 is not more valuable than another random person's $40. Oh, you spent $50k last year on crown crates? Sucks but that was last year. In my experience the least profitable customers are the people who complain about their bill because they're "long time customers". They think that I should spend twice as much time with them and charge them half as much as a new client. I'm not saying long time customers aren't profitable - just the ones who want a reduced price combined with special treatment.


Edit:
Additions / Contributions from @Merlin13KAGL
A few additions you might deem valuable:
•Overtagging: Tagging 50 moderators with every reply doesn't somehow increase your reply odds or gift you the right to a personalized response. It's not a summoning tool & you're not the leader of the free world. They're moderators. I'm quite sure they have counters and such to show them the high traffic threads.
•Self importance: Proceeding with or implying that your thread is somehow the most important or innovative one out there.
•In game - Self importance: "If I/we leave, the game will crumble. Surely no one has done more for the peasants than I."
•Ambiguous or vague titles: Save clickbait for website banners and fb. It's intended to be a summary - use it that way.
•Demanding response or action: "Oh, well since you put it that way, or gave us an ultimatum, we're now obligated to answer..."
•Self appointed leader/spokesperson: "Everyone feels this way," or "I speak for everyone..."

A well written post or reply will stand on its own merit. Adding the other things detract from any value an excellent thought may have otherwise had.

Edited by scorpiodog on April 26, 2017 8:10PM
  • bareheiny
    bareheiny
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    5cee7ebe9b4ab38d032fac8b565ec26a.jpg

    :tongue:
  • SleepyTroll
    SleepyTroll
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    But I survived a near death experience and realized I'm still alive so that I can be a better gamer and ZOS *** it all up! I can't stand by and let this happen! /s
  • raj72616a
    raj72616a
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    yes.
  • terovian2000b14_ESO
    So much yes in this post!
  • vyndral13preub18_ESO
    vyndral13preub18_ESO
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    In the immortal words of the Smashing Pumpkins...

    Despite all my rage, I'm still just a rat in Zenimax's cage...

    Or something like that.
  • colig
    colig
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    Welcome to the forum.
  • mewcatus
    mewcatus
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    Well, how do u think politicians get elected ? I am sure it is by being calm, collected, presenting facts and not making outlandish claims. Oh wait.... ...
    Edited by mewcatus on April 26, 2017 1:57AM
  • LordGavus
    LordGavus
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    This is all true, however I think the people responsible for that kind of post don't really expect anything to change. They just want a rage rant.
    They just say it's trying to change something so they can claim their post is more than just a tantrum.
  • S1ipperyJim
    S1ipperyJim
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    scorpiodog wrote: »
    - DRAMATIC LANGUAGE IN ALL CAPS!!! If I see all caps in an email, I immediately think "nutter" and save it for last or just ignore it completely.
    - Insulting language. Frankly if a client gets rude or insulting with me at my work they can find someone else to do their work. I don't need their money that bad.

    What you are describing above would be very unprofessional and poor business practice on the part of a business.

    I have been in the customer service industry more than 15 years and currently work for one of the largest financial institutions in my country, in the area of complaint management, we often get written complaints submitted using all caps, swearing, emotional language etc. We take these very seriously and equally as important as politely worded criticism or concerns we receive. We respond to all of these customers promptly, in a timely manner and with respect.

    In fact if customers are getting emotional and upset about service/products it is even more important businesses get to the root cause of their issue and arrange a suitable response.

    If businesses or staff take complaints or feedback personally and view them patronisingly or dismissively it reflects on their own lack of professionalism and business nous.
  • scorpiodog
    scorpiodog
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    scorpiodog wrote: »
    - DRAMATIC LANGUAGE IN ALL CAPS!!! If I see all caps in an email, I immediately think "nutter" and save it for last or just ignore it completely.
    - Insulting language. Frankly if a client gets rude or insulting with me at my work they can find someone else to do their work. I don't need their money that bad.

    What you are describing above would be very unprofessional and poor business practice on the part of a business.

    I have been in the customer service industry more than 15 years and currently work for one of the largest financial institutions in my country, in the area of complaint management, we often get written complaints submitted using all caps, swearing, emotional language etc. We take these very seriously and equally as important as politely worded criticism or concerns we receive. We respond to all of these customers promptly, in a timely manner and with respect.

    In fact if customers are getting emotional and upset about service/products it is even more important businesses get to the root cause of their issue and arrange a suitable response.

    If businesses or staff take complaints or feedback personally and view them patronisingly or dismissively it reflects on their own lack of professionalism and business nous.

    Sorry, no. No employee should ever be required to accept abuse as a job requirement. If your employer requires you to accept abuse that is unfortunate for you, but it is not "unprofessional" to tell someone it is not worth your time to accept their business.
  • S1ipperyJim
    S1ipperyJim
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    scorpiodog wrote: »
    No employee should ever be required to accept abuse as a job requirement. If your employer requires you to accept abuse that is unfortunate for you, but it is not "unprofessional" to tell someone it is not worth your time to accept their business.

    Nowhere at all did I mention accepting abuse.

    I mentioned emotional language, swearing and using all caps.

    Many people (as evident, for example in forums like this) use swearing as part of their everyday language, taking offence at it would be pointless.

    And yes, telling a customer it is not worth your time to accept their business would be incredibly unprofessional. Sadly there are a lot of unprofessional businesses with unprofessional staff out there.
  • Kram8ion
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    NO!
    Aussie lag is real!
  • lunalitetempler
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    Zennimax ain't changing it, the sooner they realise that the better for them self's.
  • scorpiodog
    scorpiodog
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    scorpiodog wrote: »
    No employee should ever be required to accept abuse as a job requirement. If your employer requires you to accept abuse that is unfortunate for you, but it is not "unprofessional" to tell someone it is not worth your time to accept their business.

    Nowhere at all did I mention accepting abuse.

    I mentioned emotional language, swearing and using all caps.

    Many people (as evident, for example in forums like this) use swearing as part of their everyday language, taking offence at it would be pointless.

    And yes, telling a customer it is not worth your time to accept their business would be incredibly unprofessional. Sadly there are a lot of unprofessional businesses with unprofessional staff out there.

    Ok, so pm me your phone number and I'll give it to the the whacko tweakers who wander into our office off the streets every once in a while. They might have $50 they want to put into an IRA or something in one of the largest financial institutions in the country. Personally I think they just want to raid our candy dish and dirty our bathroom, so instead of threatening them by calling the police to tresspass them I'll just give them your number and they can curse at you and tell you their conspiracy theories about how some organization is out to kill them but they have lots of money and were born into wealth but someone stole it from them. Because, you know, it would be unprofessional for you to refuse their business.
  • KochDerDamonen
    KochDerDamonen
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    scorpiodog wrote: »
    scorpiodog wrote: »
    - DRAMATIC LANGUAGE IN ALL CAPS!!! If I see all caps in an email, I immediately think "nutter" and save it for last or just ignore it completely.
    - Insulting language. Frankly if a client gets rude or insulting with me at my work they can find someone else to do their work. I don't need their money that bad.

    What you are describing above would be very unprofessional and poor business practice on the part of a business.

    I have been in the customer service industry more than 15 years and currently work for one of the largest financial institutions in my country, in the area of complaint management, we often get written complaints submitted using all caps, swearing, emotional language etc. We take these very seriously and equally as important as politely worded criticism or concerns we receive. We respond to all of these customers promptly, in a timely manner and with respect.

    In fact if customers are getting emotional and upset about service/products it is even more important businesses get to the root cause of their issue and arrange a suitable response.

    If businesses or staff take complaints or feedback personally and view them patronisingly or dismissively it reflects on their own lack of professionalism and business nous.

    Sorry, no. No employee should ever be required to accept abuse as a job requirement. If your employer requires you to accept abuse that is unfortunate for you, but it is not "unprofessional" to tell someone it is not worth your time to accept their business.

    Words are not abuse just because they're crude and written in a large way. When you work in customer service you're going to get casually cussed at by customers, coworkers and maybe even your higher ups, and you don't last long if your response is to blow up at the person over some words. You don't have to "accept the abuse", but it's absolutely expected to see frustrated language when you deal with people all day :p
    If you quote someone, and intend for them to see what you have said, be sure to Mention them with @[insert name].
  • S1ipperyJim
    S1ipperyJim
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    scorpiodog wrote: »
    Ok, so pm me your phone number and I'll give it to the the whacko tweakers who wander into our office off the streets every once in a while. They might have $50 they want to put into an IRA or something in one of the largest financial institutions in the country. Personally I think they just want to raid our candy dish and dirty our bathroom, so instead of threatening them by calling the police to tresspass them I'll just give them your number and they can curse at you and tell you their conspiracy theories about how some organization is out to kill them but they have lots of money and were born into wealth but someone stole it from them. Because, you know, it would be unprofessional for you to refuse their business.

    I can't help thinking you're being a little overdramatic
  • Tasear
    Tasear
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    scorpiodog wrote: »
    scorpiodog wrote: »
    - DRAMATIC LANGUAGE IN ALL CAPS!!! If I see all caps in an email, I immediately think "nutter" and save it for last or just ignore it completely.
    - Insulting language. Frankly if a client gets rude or insulting with me at my work they can find someone else to do their work. I don't need their money that bad.

    What you are describing above would be very unprofessional and poor business practice on the part of a business.

    I have been in the customer service industry more than 15 years and currently work for one of the largest financial institutions in my country, in the area of complaint management, we often get written complaints submitted using all caps, swearing, emotional language etc. We take these very seriously and equally as important as politely worded criticism or concerns we receive. We respond to all of these customers promptly, in a timely manner and with respect.

    In fact if customers are getting emotional and upset about service/products it is even more important businesses get to the root cause of their issue and arrange a suitable response.

    If businesses or staff take complaints or feedback personally and view them patronisingly or dismissively it reflects on their own lack of professionalism and business nous.

    Sorry, no. No employee should ever be required to accept abuse as a job requirement. If your employer requires you to accept abuse that is unfortunate for you, but it is not "unprofessional" to tell someone it is not worth your time to accept their business.

    :o I like this...I need your job.
  • scorpiodog
    scorpiodog
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    scorpiodog wrote: »
    Ok, so pm me your phone number and I'll give it to the the whacko tweakers who wander into our office off the streets every once in a while. They might have $50 they want to put into an IRA or something in one of the largest financial institutions in the country. Personally I think they just want to raid our candy dish and dirty our bathroom, so instead of threatening them by calling the police to tresspass them I'll just give them your number and they can curse at you and tell you their conspiracy theories about how some organization is out to kill them but they have lots of money and were born into wealth but someone stole it from them. Because, you know, it would be unprofessional for you to refuse their business.

    I can't help thinking you're being a little overdramatic

    No joke. We have a streetfront office and homeless people and drug addicts come in off the streets for the A/C and candy and want to waste my time. One of them started getting belligerent Friday talking about he had a right to be there and people wanting to kill him and he started to freak out the secretary so I called the police. He left just before they arrived but they knew who he was and when they ran his name there was a long list of drug offenses and warrant violations.

    Unprofessional to refuse service? GTFO.
  • KochDerDamonen
    KochDerDamonen
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    scorpiodog wrote: »
    scorpiodog wrote: »
    Ok, so pm me your phone number and I'll give it to the the whacko tweakers who wander into our office off the streets every once in a while. They might have $50 they want to put into an IRA or something in one of the largest financial institutions in the country. Personally I think they just want to raid our candy dish and dirty our bathroom, so instead of threatening them by calling the police to tresspass them I'll just give them your number and they can curse at you and tell you their conspiracy theories about how some organization is out to kill them but they have lots of money and were born into wealth but someone stole it from them. Because, you know, it would be unprofessional for you to refuse their business.

    I can't help thinking you're being a little overdramatic

    No joke. We have a streetfront office and homeless people and drug addicts come in off the streets for the A/C and candy and want to waste my time. One of them started getting belligerent Friday talking about he had a right to be there and people wanting to kill him and he started to freak out the secretary so I called the police. He left just before they arrived but they knew who he was and when they ran his name there was a long list of drug offenses and warrant violations.

    Unprofessional to refuse service? GTFO.

    Definitely being overdramatic, some cursing and capitals in a typed letter are not equivalent to the hobo screaming about being hunted in the middle of your lobby.
    If you quote someone, and intend for them to see what you have said, be sure to Mention them with @[insert name].
  • S1ipperyJim
    S1ipperyJim
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    scorpiodog wrote: »
    No joke. We have a streetfront office and homeless people and drug addicts come in off the streets for the A/C and candy and want to waste my time. One of them started getting belligerent Friday talking about he had a right to be there and people wanting to kill him and he started to freak out the secretary so I called the police. He left just before they arrived but they knew who he was and when they ran his name there was a long list of drug offenses and warrant violations.

    Unprofessional to refuse service? GTFO.

    Wow ok, I feel for you, face to face customer service is always more of a challenge, although I'm not sure some of those people sound like customers. We have our own procedures for bomb threats and branch robberies, but that's a different issue from responding to genuine customer complaints or feedback.
  • scorpiodog
    scorpiodog
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    scorpiodog wrote: »
    scorpiodog wrote: »
    Ok, so pm me your phone number and I'll give it to the the whacko tweakers who wander into our office off the streets every once in a while. They might have $50 they want to put into an IRA or something in one of the largest financial institutions in the country. Personally I think they just want to raid our candy dish and dirty our bathroom, so instead of threatening them by calling the police to tresspass them I'll just give them your number and they can curse at you and tell you their conspiracy theories about how some organization is out to kill them but they have lots of money and were born into wealth but someone stole it from them. Because, you know, it would be unprofessional for you to refuse their business.

    I can't help thinking you're being a little overdramatic

    No joke. We have a streetfront office and homeless people and drug addicts come in off the streets for the A/C and candy and want to waste my time. One of them started getting belligerent Friday talking about he had a right to be there and people wanting to kill him and he started to freak out the secretary so I called the police. He left just before they arrived but they knew who he was and when they ran his name there was a long list of drug offenses and warrant violations.

    Unprofessional to refuse service? GTFO.

    Definitely being overdramatic, some cursing and capitals in a typed letter are not equivalent to the hobo screaming about being hunted in the middle of your lobby.

    I just thought of something - what if he actually was being hunted? Ooops, my bad! Poor customer service indeed.
    Edited by scorpiodog on April 26, 2017 4:00AM
  • Acrolas
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    If calm and collected gets you nowhere, and ranting gets you nowhere, at least ranting is a little bit fun.

    ...

    Are you not entertained?
    signing off
  • Tasear
    Tasear
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    People on the forums are just passionate.
  • Mojmir
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    After all this time it doesn't matter how you articulate yourself,if a business is worried by "How the customer words their complaints" that business is amateur and lacks the skills to handle such customers. i remember one such post by a dev saying something along these lines, guess what, the issue is still unresolved after numerous "nice and please posts". we need need less california/west coast "its all good and were in no hurry" attitude.
    Edited by Mojmir on April 26, 2017 4:05AM
  • scorpiodog
    scorpiodog
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    Anyway - my main point is that making overly dramatic posts is not the best way to get results in most cases. People disagree I guess but I think that when you type something like I described in my OP you are less likely to get the results you want.

  • Mordenkainen
    Mordenkainen
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    scorpiodog wrote: »
    Anyway - my main point is that making overly dramatic posts is not the best way to get results in most cases. People disagree I guess but I think that when you type something like I described in my OP you are less likely to get the results you want.

    And the people will continue to make them. Frankly you can paint a van gogh here in the forums with umlauts and @ symbols, it won't change that the current patch notes are making people rather 'passionate' as someone else named it.

    Oh.. and forced positivity is just as much cancer.
  • Swifigames
    Swifigames
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    Depends on the audience.
    "We don't want other worlds, we want mirrors." - Gibarian
    --
    Nightblade (Bosmer) - Kremlok
    Templar (Khajiit) - Drops-the-Ball
    Templar (Altmer) - Lyranil of Alinor
    Necromancer (Altmer) - Kalomyr
    Sorcerer (Dunmer) - Lord Eldruin
  • Cathexis
    Cathexis
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    Poll?



    Also, this thing you are describing, its called dialogue. It's how a forum works. You put words in in a meaningful order and they carry ideas.

    Like for example:

    "Potato Hat Monkey Doornob Policeman." << No meaning.

    "Cats are silly." << Meaning.

    Sometimes they are ironic in their meaning, in that they carry an opposing meaning to their original intent.
    They might write factually accurate and balanced papers for college and get an A+

    This, for example, is an ironic statement, in that college papers can range down to the dumbest and most poorly written papers ever made by adult humans.

    Of the examples you gave many of them are pretty weak arguments in that they inherently reflect the bias of the poster, however that doesn't fundamentally make them any less what the poster is thinking.

    And as for this one
    - Try to discourage sales: If you don't do everything I say exactly how I want I'll say bad things about you. (esp on my youtube TM channel)

    That is actually a fundamentally legitimate argument to make, its an action a player can take in their power if they don't support something. You have every right not to support something if you don't want to. When customers band together to do this, its called a boycott. The intent is to disrupt the sales of a particular company to have their voice heard. It is actually a common practice people do for many reasons, most commonly used if a company is destructive or unhealthy for people.
    Edited by Cathexis on April 26, 2017 4:44AM
    Tome of Alteration Magic I - Reality is an Ancient Dwemer Construct: Everything You Need to Know About FPS
    https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/520903/tomb-of-fps-alteration-magic-everything-you-need-to-know-about-fps

    Tome of Alteration Magic II - The Manual of the Deceiver: A Beginner's Guide to Thieving
    https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/462509/tome-of-alteration-mastery-ii-the-decievers-manual-thieving-guide-for-new-characters

    Ultrawide ESO Adventure Screenshots - 7680 x 1080 Resolution
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  • ArchMikem
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    b8c112ff5a7e47479ca64e5ba4cf071b_miss-nairaland-contest-2016-nomination-verification-thread-preach-brotha-meme_400-400.jpeg
    CP2,000 Master Explorer - AvA One Star General - Console Peasant - Khajiiti Aficionado - The Clan
    Quest Objective: OMG Go Talk To That Kitty!
  • Cadbury
    Cadbury
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    This type of behavior is seen on pretty much any game / MMO forum since forever. At this point, I would be more worried if there wasn't any drama.
    "If a person is truly desirous of something, perhaps being set on fire does not seem so bad."
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