How do I counter a magicka sorcerer???

jakeyura · April 2017

I'm a stamblade cp 330 and literally can't do anything vs a sorc. If I fight a level 600 in Cyrodiil 1v1 I get insta-killed by crystal frags.

I have 2000 recovery, 4K weapon damage, over 12k penetration, 34k max Stam, 42% crit, and 24k health.

My ult is useless, every time I cloak crystal frags takes me out half a second later, fear is ok but I'm always dead before I can get their stamina down. I just don't understand how I can have no counter at all and be out sustained against magicka sorcs.

The funny thing is they're getting buffed next patch by being the only class to not get nerfed.

Is this one of those if you can't beat them join them deals? Will everyone in pvp be running a magicka sorcerer next patch?

Casterial · April 2017

You don't. You die, they're nearly 2x stronger than most. Some pull 40-50k DPS on players... Thats 40k - 50k Damage Per Second against players. They're very strong, but ZOS nerfed Templars over them, when Sorc's have skills that are identical and need the same nerf, etc.

MasterSpatula · April 2017

You hope it's me. Then you'll be fine., trust me.

Runschei · April 2017

You don't counter the shieldspammer that doesn't move outside his mines.

Casterial · April 2017

Runschei wrote: »

You don't counter the shieldspammer that doesn't move outside his mines.

Could reflect spam, but in the end they can do what I do.... LOS CC them... attempt to hide, repeat.

utb99 · April 2017

1. You have half their CP so chill
2. M. Sorcs are the best M.Class atm so don't feel bad
3. To beat a Sorc on a S. Blade you either have to be on them like white on rice (Incapping, fearing, Surprise Attack without pausing) to run them out of magicka, or you keep your distance and play defensively and stun them every chance you have to run them outta stam.
4. Burst is everything
5. Shieldbreaker

DRXHarbinger · April 2017

Cloak at 1st contact. Stun 1st wait for the break free and then fear. 2ccs will kill a magsorc. Increase cost poison on bow.

IcyDeadPeople · April 2017

The best way is to ask a friend who plays sorc to duel you many times over and over to help you practice and adjust to fighting sorcs.

Yes, they are usually tougher than other classes with big shield and big damage at the same time, but on stamblade, you can make them run out of stamina, fear and dps them down.

You can also use poisons that increase magicka cost.

jakeyura · April 2017

Shield breaker is not an option this patch but maybe next patch when 90% of the people in pvp are playing mag sorc it will be

Vapirko · April 2017

If you have lag it's worse. You'll get fragged, executed and ulti'd before you see anything happen. Your strategy should also be to pick your battles. Even top streamers do so. Granted it's probably in a 1vX situation but still, play to your strengths if you don't want to die, until you get better/stronger.

Izaki · April 2017

Casterial wrote: »

You don't. You die, they're nearly 2x stronger than most. Some pull 40-50k DPS on players... Thats 40k - 50k Damage Per Second against players. They're very strong, but ZOS nerfed Templars over them, when Sorc's have skills that are identical and need the same nerf, etc.

50K DPS on players? Its already VERY rare to see a solo selfbuffed target skeleton (PvE) parse on a PET SORC that is higher than 42k. So your statement is lies. Plus DPS doesn't really apply in PvP anyway, because fights are far too short for DPS (aka damage per second) to be a valid term for describing the damage done.

@OP Those are your stats at CP300? If they are I don't know how you get instagibbed by a Crystal Frag. I have yet to see a Frag that hits for 24k. The highest I've ever seen from a DW Sorc, focused on Frags (without Curse at all) was 22k. So you gotta either roll dodge that Frag: easy to avoid, keep you HoTs up (Vigor and Rally) while going in for the burst, never fall beneath 20% health or you die. You control the fight as a stamblade because of cloak. You can reset the fight as much as you want to gain resources, rethink, reposition, etc. A Sorc can only camp Mines if he wants to counter a stamblade. If he isn't camping mines, then you should have absolutely no trouble killing a Sorc. Pressure the stamina pool. A good Sorc will manage his stam, but lets face it, good Sorcs are very rare in ESO. Keep him CC'd on cooldown.

A fight between a good NB and a Sorc of equal skill is always a draw. Sorcs counter with Mines, NBs control the fight and reset it as much as they need.

jakeyura · April 2017

Harbinger usually when I try this my fear does nothing. Am I doing it too soon? Do I need to wait a couple seconds after the freak free?

jakeyura · April 2017

Izaki like I said when I cloak they are doing something to take me out of cloak instantly idk what it is. I see this especially in duels. And this just drains my magicka to nothing because I have to reapply cloak 2-3 times to get it to work.

And I'm not getting 1 shot by frags it's their first rotation that kills me because frags is hitting so hard the burst is unsustainable.

Izaki · April 2017

Sorcs shields counter burst in a 1v1 pretty damn well. This doesn't translate to open world, where shields get taken down EASILY by 3 or more people firing off a few random skills at you (if you're being focuses, you start spamming shields basically, kiting and can only attack during a tiny window, where Curse explodes). So in a duel you're gonna have a hard time vs Sorc, especially as a class that relies on burst. Best bet is to use DoTs and continuously pressure the Sorc's shields. Best defense is offense. Keep in mind though, Sorcs can counter attack any second as long as they have a Curse on you. So you'll know that when a Curse is about to blow up, you gotta avoid the incoming Frag. Keep Vigor up 100% of the time. Roll dodge everytime the Curse is about to explode are definitely your best bets. If they are using mines: poke at them a few times, then just put your HoTs up and go full offense into the Mines (but be careful to not hit more than 1 or 2 at most otherwise you're dead). Surprise Attack the shields a few times, then Fear > Incap > Surprise Attack > Execute. My best combo that I know of to take down shields quickly is Heavy Bow attack > Ambush. Frankly as long as you don't hit more than 2 mines and keep your Vigor up 100% of the time, you should be fine against a not-so-good Sorc. Against a good one, the duel can go on for ages, at this point its a waiting game: wait for mistakes. Hope this helps man!

Araviel2 · April 2017

bash and interupt,

jakeyura wrote: »

Harbinger usually when I try this my fear does nothing. Am I doing it too soon? Do I need to wait a couple seconds after the freak free?

yes,

jakeyura wrote: »

Harbinger usually when I try this my fear does nothing. Am I doing it too soon? Do I need to wait a couple seconds after the freak free?

yes you need to wait 5s, watch their feet. when that swirling effect around them ends that means they are out of CC immunity, in the mean time get in their face and bash as much as possible btw your attacks to interrupt.
if they put down mines you can try Venom Arrow if you still want to be able to interrupt at range. otherwise just move away and get them to a position that you control.

and keep in mind that all skilled sorcs will try and time their frags whit their curse. when you see the curse land on you (the blue glow) you know they will try and burst you in 3.5s. it is within this time frame that it is as most crucial that you CC or interrupt them. don't let that burst land on you, and if all fails be ready to dodge.

also some people will say that you should get shieldbreaker, but unless you are one a non CP campaign i disagree.
Investing points into shattering blows is a far more effective way to counter shields than dedicating a whole 5 piece set bonus for it (as the effect of shieldbreaker easily can get outhealed under shields, while shattering blows will help you negate the shields completely)

Naerri · April 2017

Araviel2 wrote: »

(as the effect of shieldbreaker easily can get outhealed under shields, while shattering blows will help you negate the shields completely)

not really, most sorcs are usually not ready for this and dont even pop a health pot, casting their shields over and over and wtfing...and streaking away...

Dracane · April 2017

Sorcerer is the only class, that has to follow a very strict rotation in pvp to kill you. If you don't know what they are going to do, you're going to have issues. But once you learn it, you'll find them quite predictable.

Almost all Sorcerers have the exact same build and skill layout, so you should almost never run into something unpredictable.
But honey, your Cp level is pretty low. It's no shame to get killed easily with such a disadvantage. Your best bet is to keep leveling, or perhaps just go to a non Cp campaign in the meantime. Though as others said, using magicka poison or shieldbreaker spam, will either kill them easily or simply scare them away instantly. Believe me, most Sorcerers are super bad at playing the class. They won't know how to handle that.

ChildOfLight · April 2017

Some above stating the problems are your CPs or the fact you play a class that relies on burst.

Wrong. MagSorc problem is over this tiny analisys.

You could play a full cp stamDk for example. Nothing would change.
A competent MagSorc can overcome easily every stam class with an easy rotation, full animation cancellable.
(2h bred and butter WB isn't, just as side note)

Daedric mines grants 6 free snares vs every stam character, since if you don't try to gap close you'll end burned down.
In the meanwhile you'll get burned the same since you can't really dodgeroll 6 times (and Curse is not dodgeable)
(2 options : gap close - not gap close, same outcome)

Pvp is not fun for me right now.
The feeling overall is there are no counterplays to these situations.
Nothing you can do versus a class that does the same things you do but BETTER.
So my question is, why should I play something different from a magSorc?

ScooberSteve · April 2017

Casterial wrote: »

You don't. You die, they're nearly 2x stronger than most. Some pull 40-50k DPS on players... Thats 40k - 50k Damage Per Second against players. They're very strong, but ZOS nerfed Templars over them, when Sorc's have skills that are identical and need the same nerf, etc.

This guys thinks pvp is a dps race.

Make then use there stamina through breakfree or other methods like poisons.

SodanTok · April 2017

Dodge/block all their one shot comboes.
Stun them 10 times everytime CC immunity is off to drain their stamina
Once they start streaking away because they have no stamina you have 3 choices:
- Wait till they are back with full and repeat the steps above
- Go away and consider it a win
- or continue with the steps by following them
Drain all your stamina following them
After few minutes of chase where they were both spamming streak and shield they will look out of magicka
They werent.
Repeat 1-2. There is big chance that this time they will go down fighting.

Magdalina · April 2017

You can dodge frags, they fly really slow. And what's taking you out of cloak is probably curse, it takes 3.5 seconds for first explosion and 8.5 for second though, so you could try to time around that. If you're struggling, use cloak to los, heal and time the next attack. That aside, do target their stamina, you can even fear them out of their mines. Magsorcs are far from immortal. You won't kill a good magsorc 1v1 easily, but then if someone's legit good you won't kill them easily on any class.

Waseem · April 2017

shieldbreaker, good sorcs know how to counter it though, but still the absolute best thing
i've seen sorcs use 4-6 streaks in a row to escape shieldbreaker, also a nice magicka pool+ efficient purge will help alot.

most players do not understand still... most sorcs focus on boosting their magicka pool to stupid values, they have high damage shield but very low health and stamina

stamina/magicka poison helps a bit,, or maybe oblivion damage glyph

to those who think this build is a waste:
its effective vs magicka NB(harness/healing ward bubble) and DK aswell,, even some templars use damage shields, DKs -stamina or magicka- use a shield to gain major mending etc...

Caligamy_ESO · April 2017

DRXHarbinger wrote: »

Cloak at 1st contact. Stun 1st wait for the break free and then fear. 2ccs will kill a magsorc. Increase cost poison on bow.

Pretty much just that ^ A magicka sorcerer doesn't have the stamina to survive through any CC abilities, catch them a few times with them and they'll sit on the ground for you while you kill them. Also frags is a projectile spell like every other, it can be dodged, blocked, reflected, dodge rolled, etc.. The add-on Combat cloud will even tell you "Dodge Now!" when something like this is headed your way.

boundsy88 · April 2017

make sure your vigor is up all the time. if there is a curse about to blow up on you then you cannot go offensive. thats where cloak comes in handy. cloak after the first initial curse because u have time to get your damage in before the next blows up, just as long as they havent re-applied their curse on you since most sorcs will not wait for the 2nd to blow up. your incap has to be use to CC him while his shields are down. if you fail to achieve this then you will simply not kill them. another tactic i find handy against the less experienced sorcs is if you know you are up to the task of evading their damage while they tunnel vision thinking they are in control of the fight and forget to shield then you can sometimes make easy work of them.

RANKK7 · April 2017

Oh yes, "how do I counter" is the same question I ask myself when I get shot by an invisible opponent with a bow and I'm dead straight after falling from the horse since there is no way to move or react.

Truly it seems a recurring question in this game, though (opposite as me) you can definitely get valid answers, you got them already.

Many sorcerers underestimate the need of boosting stamina and that's easily a death sentence.
Yes, we magicka based must boost stamina losing dps in order to break free and roll dodge to survive, while a pure stamina user have no need whatsoever to boost magicka for so fatal reason, game balance.

Enslaved · April 2017

jakeyura wrote: »

I'm a stamblade cp 330 and literally can't do anything vs a sorc. If I fight a level 600 in Cyrodiil 1v1 I get insta-killed by crystal frags.

I have 2000 recovery, 4K weapon damage, over 12k penetration, 34k max Stam, 42% crit, and 24k health.

My ult is useless, every time I cloak crystal frags takes me out half a second later, fear is ok but I'm always dead before I can get their stamina down. I just don't understand how I can have no counter at all and be out sustained against magicka sorcs.

The funny thing is they're getting buffed next patch by being the only class to not get nerfed.

Is this one of those if you can't beat them join them deals? Will everyone in pvp be running a magicka sorcerer next patch?

You can't counter an equally skilled mSorc with a sNB.

Goshua · April 2017

Caligamy_ESO wrote: »

DRXHarbinger wrote: »

Cloak at 1st contact. Stun 1st wait for the break free and then fear. 2ccs will kill a magsorc. Increase cost poison on bow.

Pretty much just that ^ A magicka sorcerer doesn't have the stamina to survive through any CC abilities, catch them a few times with them and they'll sit on the ground for you while you kill them. Also frags is a projectile spell like every other, it can be dodged, blocked, reflected, dodge rolled, etc.. The add-on Combat cloud will even tell you "Dodge Now!" when something like this is headed your way.

Fear works through the CC immunity after stun?

Araviel2 · April 2017

Waseem wrote: »

shieldbreaker, good sorcs know how to counter it though, but still the absolute best thing
i've seen sorcs use 4-6 streaks in a row to escape shieldbreaker, also a nice magicka pool+ efficient purge will help alot.

most players do not understand still... most sorcs focus on boosting their magicka pool to stupid values, they have high damage shield but very low health and stamina

stamina/magicka poison helps a bit,, or maybe oblivion damage glyph

to those who think this build is a waste:
its effective vs magicka NB(harness/healing ward bubble) and DK aswell,, even some templars use damage shields, DKs -stamina or magicka- use a shield to gain major mending etc...

its bad sorcs man, a good sorc you can't beat unless you can burst him down, and to do that you basically have to be able to smash his shield in one blow and get damage under it so you can get an execute in before he applies the shields again.
thats why shattering blows - shieldbreaker, as an investment in shattering blows will help you defeat both the good and the bad ones.

and because as you say shields are so common among all classes now that is even more reason to invest cp to counter it.
but using shieldbreaker against anyone who is decent is just an annoyance that will get you focused very fast.

better use that 5 piece bonus to get even more burst in your build.

Emma_Overload · April 2017

jakeyura wrote: »

I'm a stamblade cp 330 and literally can't do anything vs a sorc. If I fight a level 600 in Cyrodiil 1v1 I get insta-killed by crystal frags.

I have 2000 recovery, 4K weapon damage, over 12k penetration, 34k max Stam, 42% crit, and 24k health.

My ult is useless, every time I cloak crystal frags takes me out half a second later, fear is ok but I'm always dead before I can get their stamina down. I just don't understand how I can have no counter at all and be out sustained against magicka sorcs.

The funny thing is they're getting buffed next patch by being the only class to not get nerfed.

Is this one of those if you can't beat them join them deals? Will everyone in pvp be running a magicka sorcerer next patch?

Your build is fine. The problem is that you're getting into drawn out fights with sorcs in the first place. What you need to be doing is sneaking up on them and attacking out of stealth with Surprise Attack, Incapacitating Strike and all those cheesy proc sets like Viper that stamblades use. The point is to kill them before they even know what's going on.

Seriously, stamblades have been the deadliest class since Imperial City dropped, and nothing has really happened to change that.

Emma_Overload · April 2017

Casterial wrote: »

You don't. You die, they're nearly 2x stronger than most. Some pull 40-50k DPS on players... Thats 40k - 50k Damage Per Second against players. They're very strong, but ZOS nerfed Templars over them, when Sorc's have skills that are identical and need the same nerf, etc.

LOL, this is straight up lies. Nobody is pulling those numbers in PvP.

Dracane · April 2017

Emma_Overload wrote: »

Casterial wrote: »

You don't. You die, they're nearly 2x stronger than most. Some pull 40-50k DPS on players... Thats 40k - 50k Damage Per Second against players. They're very strong, but ZOS nerfed Templars over them, when Sorc's have skills that are identical and need the same nerf, etc.

LOL, this is straight up lies. Nobody is pulling those numbers in PvP.

Yea that must've been a bad joke.
Nobody in pvp stands still. People in pvp block, shield, dodge and run around plus you only deal half damage in pvp.
I sometimes deal like 5-7k dps on a player depending on the duration of the fight and that's a lot if you consider that players only have 20-30k health.