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constitution change isn't needed
Lynx7386
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Constitution, after the 42% nerf, is returning no more resources than a typical 2-4 pc set recovery bonus. This is far less than the recovery boost light or medium give even with low base recovery, and requires taking damage consistently to even function.
This change is pigeonholing tanks into using black rose just to maintain similar recovery to what constitution currently provides.
This change is pigeonholing tanks into using black rose just to maintain similar recovery to what constitution currently provides.
PS4 / NA
M'asad - Khajiit Nightblade - Healer
Pakhet - Khajiit Dragonknight - Tank
Raksha - Khajiit Sorcerer - Stamina DPS
Bastet - Khajiit Templar - Healer
Leonin - Khajiit Warden - Tank
M'asad - Khajiit Nightblade - Healer
Pakhet - Khajiit Dragonknight - Tank
Raksha - Khajiit Sorcerer - Stamina DPS
Bastet - Khajiit Templar - Healer
Leonin - Khajiit Warden - Tank
16
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Dr.NRG✭✭✭✭no it is very much needed! I am sick and tired of no skilled gamers hopping into heavy amor and then feel super strong cause they can sustain so much.
However, it's the wrong fix they get sustain through heavy attack passive that gives you 25% more resources back. this passive needs to go and heavy will be perfectly fine.23 -
West93✭✭✭✭✭no it is very much needed! I am sick and tired of no skilled gamers hopping into heavy amor and then feel super strong cause they can sustain so much.
However, it's the wrong fix they get sustain through heavy attack passive that gives you 25% more resources back. this passive needs to go and heavy will be perfectly fine
CP cost reduction/recovery passive nerf would fix that infinite sustain problem. I think constitution nerf should be around 15-25%, but not 41% or whatever exactly it was.4 -
Anti_Virus✭✭✭✭✭
✭no it is very much needed! I am sick and tired of no skilled gamers hopping into heavy amor and then feel super strong cause they can sustain so much.
However, it's the wrong fix they get sustain through heavy attack passive that gives you 25% more resources back. this passive needs to go and heavy will be perfectly fine
Perfect example of ignorance here^^.Power Wealth And Influence.16 -
Lynx7386✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Anti_Virus wrote: »no it is very much needed! I am sick and tired of no skilled gamers hopping into heavy amor and then feel super strong cause they can sustain so much.
However, it's the wrong fix they get sustain through heavy attack passive that gives you 25% more resources back. this passive needs to go and heavy will be perfectly fine
Perfect example of ignorance here^^.
And obviously from someone not experienced with heavy armor, either.
Block cost is essentially being doubled. Champion perks to reduce ability cost are being removed entirely. Recovery is being reduced. Stamina costs are going up 5% globally. There was absolutely no reason to change any of the armor passives on top of all that.
Zos does this constantly; they find a "problem", and instead of making moderate changes they go overboard.Edited by Lynx7386 on April 23, 2017 4:34AMPS4 / NA
M'asad - Khajiit Nightblade - Healer
Pakhet - Khajiit Dragonknight - Tank
Raksha - Khajiit Sorcerer - Stamina DPS
Bastet - Khajiit Templar - Healer
Leonin - Khajiit Warden - Tank20 -
Magıc✭✭✭✭✭Anti_Virus wrote: »no it is very much needed! I am sick and tired of no skilled gamers hopping into heavy amor and then feel super strong cause they can sustain so much.
However, it's the wrong fix they get sustain through heavy attack passive that gives you 25% more resources back. this passive needs to go and heavy will be perfectly fine
Perfect example of ignorance here^^.
He's also stating facts. PvP has become filled with casuals who as NRG says, hop into heavy armour and can sustain forever while being impossible to kill when they are in a zerg because they're in heavy armour.
Constitution should be gutted completely. If anything the only way to sustain in heavy is through heavy attacks imo. I'm so looking forward to everyone going back to light/medium armour and some actual skill returning to cyrodiil even though proc sets will return to the meta, it's much better than the current meta.13 -
KCLucky✭✭Anti_Virus wrote: »no it is very much needed! I am sick and tired of no skilled gamers hopping into heavy amor and then feel super strong cause they can sustain so much.
However, it's the wrong fix they get sustain through heavy attack passive that gives you 25% more resources back. this passive needs to go and heavy will be perfectly fine
Perfect example of ignorance here^^.
He's also stating facts. PvP has become filled with casuals who as NRG says, hop into heavy armour and can sustain forever while being impossible to kill when they are in a zerg because they're in heavy armour.
Constitution should be gutted completely. If anything the only way to sustain in heavy is through heavy attacks imo. I'm so looking forward to everyone going back to light/medium armour and some actual skill returning to cyrodiil even though proc sets will return to the meta, it's much better than the current meta.
What do you propose for Vet Trials? A tank can't heavy attack on a lot of fights or they will die. ZoS looks like they won't balance separately so both sides have to be accounted for with suggested changes.Edited by KCLucky on April 23, 2017 8:54AM8 -
SodanTok✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Constitution, after the 42% nerf, is returning no more resources than a typical 2-4 pc set recovery bonus. This is far less than the recovery boost light or medium give even with low base recovery, and requires taking damage consistently to even function.
This change is pigeonholing tanks into using black rose just to maintain similar recovery to what constitution currently provides.
I know math is problematic in this because medium also gets cost reduction, but no need to "lie".
You would need 620 recovery to match Constitution after nerfs. Thats at least 5 set recovery bonuses.
Even if we factor all easily accessible recovery % increases in the game (which we are not counting for heavy) you would at best get it down to 2-3 recovery pieces
I was taking in consideration only 5pieces of heavy vs 5medium fyi.
I was not taking in consideration all these mechanics that decrease or stop your recovery or that heavy also gets magicka with it or the huge defense and healing boost forcing heavy to waste resources on defense and healing less often or the heavy attack resource gain buff for heavy or that outside of blocking heavy armor still has too stam recovery pool +/- similiar to medium armor in PvE and +/- 25% of PVP value.Edited by SodanTok on April 23, 2017 9:45AM3 -
ku5h✭✭✭✭✭
✭All 3 types of armor got nerfed, but you complain about HA which was BiS for almost any build for a long time now.
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Lynx7386✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Anti_Virus wrote: »no it is very much needed! I am sick and tired of no skilled gamers hopping into heavy amor and then feel super strong cause they can sustain so much.
However, it's the wrong fix they get sustain through heavy attack passive that gives you 25% more resources back. this passive needs to go and heavy will be perfectly fine
Perfect example of ignorance here^^.
He's also stating facts. PvP has become filled with casuals who as NRG says, hop into heavy armour and can sustain forever while being impossible to kill when they are in a zerg because they're in heavy armour.
Constitution should be gutted completely. If anything the only way to sustain in heavy is through heavy attacks imo. I'm so looking forward to everyone going back to light/medium armour and some actual skill returning to cyrodiil even though proc sets will return to the meta, it's much better than the current meta.
I'd love to see you try to tank a vet trial relying on heavy attacks for your sustain.
PS4 / NA
M'asad - Khajiit Nightblade - Healer
Pakhet - Khajiit Dragonknight - Tank
Raksha - Khajiit Sorcerer - Stamina DPS
Bastet - Khajiit Templar - Healer
Leonin - Khajiit Warden - Tank10 -
Rex-Umbra✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Terrible nerf heavy is pointless even for tanks.Xbox GT: Rex Umbrah
GM of IMPERIUM since 2015.4 -
Lynx7386✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭sodantokb16_ESO wrote: »Constitution, after the 42% nerf, is returning no more resources than a typical 2-4 pc set recovery bonus. This is far less than the recovery boost light or medium give even with low base recovery, and requires taking damage consistently to even function.
This change is pigeonholing tanks into using black rose just to maintain similar recovery to what constitution currently provides.
I know math is problematic in this because medium also gets cost reduction, but no need to "lie".
You would need 620 recovery to match Constitution after nerfs. Thats at least 5 set recovery bonuses.
Even if we factor all easily accessible recovery % increases in the game (which we are not counting for heavy) you would at best get it down to 2-3 recovery pieces
I was taking in consideration only 5pieces of heavy vs 5medium fyi.
I was not taking in consideration all these mechanics that decrease or stop your recovery or that heavy also gets magicka with it or the huge defense and healing boost forcing heavy to waste resources on defense and healing less often or the heavy attack resource gain buff for heavy or that outside of blocking heavy armor still has too stam recovery pool +/- similiar to medium armor in PvE and +/- 25% of PVP value.
After the change, constitution gives roughly 200 stamina/magicka recovery (400~ return every 4 seconds, recovery is every 2 seconds), or just under 300 with black rose. That's with 7 pieces of heavy armor.
Light or medium armor, at 7 pieces, give you 28% increased recovery (those armor types did not have recovery reduced, only cost). That means having a base 700 recovery will give you the same bonus fron their passives as constitution gives to heavy armor users.
Even without focusing on recovery sets, any character is going to have 500-600 recovery just from the base value and passives. My tanks have 600 magicka and stamina recovery without any gained from armor. Hell, you can get 400 from a drink or food buff alone.
The heavy armor resource return passive can be removed from heavy, I'm fine with that - heavy is for tanking and tanks don't get to rely on heavy attacks at all. The constitution passive needs to be reverted, as tanks -do- tale hits and that's exactly how a tank should be recovering his resources.
What this comes down to is that the pvp community thinks their opinion is the only one that matters, and has no regard for any other part of the game.PS4 / NA
M'asad - Khajiit Nightblade - Healer
Pakhet - Khajiit Dragonknight - Tank
Raksha - Khajiit Sorcerer - Stamina DPS
Bastet - Khajiit Templar - Healer
Leonin - Khajiit Warden - Tank9 -
Qbiken✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Anti_Virus wrote: »no it is very much needed! I am sick and tired of no skilled gamers hopping into heavy amor and then feel super strong cause they can sustain so much.
However, it's the wrong fix they get sustain through heavy attack passive that gives you 25% more resources back. this passive needs to go and heavy will be perfectly fine
Perfect example of ignorance here^^.
He's also stating facts. PvP has become filled with casuals who as NRG says, hop into heavy armour and can sustain forever while being impossible to kill when they are in a zerg because they're in heavy armour.
Constitution should be gutted completely. If anything the only way to sustain in heavy is through heavy attacks imo. I'm so looking forward to everyone going back to light/medium armour and some actual skill returning to cyrodiil even though proc sets will return to the meta, it's much better than the current meta.
Sustaining forever due to the constitution passive is a myth. It helps sure but its not the reason people can "sustain forever"11 -
alephthiago✭✭✭✭✭I would like to see 80% nerf to constitution and wrath halved again to be honest.
No, this is not a joke.Walks-in-Shadowss AD Magblade
*** kitty AD Stamblade
Paarthurnax's Will AD Magicka DK
agnar cracked skull EP Magicka DK (veteran dragonstar arena bot)
Klogi Mugdul AD Stamina DK
Savre Selranni AD Magicka Sorc (being polished)
Avenar Lolhealing AD Magicka Templar (being polished)2 -
Lynx7386✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭alephthiago wrote: »I would like to see 80% nerf to constitution and wrath halved again to be honest.
No, this is not a joke.
And this is why pvpers shouldn't have any say in balance changes. You can't think clearly or reasonably when you spend all day in cyrodiil.PS4 / NA
M'asad - Khajiit Nightblade - Healer
Pakhet - Khajiit Dragonknight - Tank
Raksha - Khajiit Sorcerer - Stamina DPS
Bastet - Khajiit Templar - Healer
Leonin - Khajiit Warden - Tank9 -
Dracane✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭I personally think, Constitution was way too good, especially since it restores both ressources.
Light and medium armor should offer more sustain for their respective ressource than heavy armor, yet heavy armor offered more for both ressources at a time. If you count it together, heavy armor still restores more ressources than the others.Edited by Dracane on April 23, 2017 2:53PMAuri-El is my lord,
Trinimac is my shield,
Magnus is my mind.
My debut album on YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@Gleandra/videos2 -
SodanTok✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭sodantokb16_ESO wrote: »Constitution, after the 42% nerf, is returning no more resources than a typical 2-4 pc set recovery bonus. This is far less than the recovery boost light or medium give even with low base recovery, and requires taking damage consistently to even function.
This change is pigeonholing tanks into using black rose just to maintain similar recovery to what constitution currently provides.
I know math is problematic in this because medium also gets cost reduction, but no need to "lie".
You would need 620 recovery to match Constitution after nerfs. Thats at least 5 set recovery bonuses.
Even if we factor all easily accessible recovery % increases in the game (which we are not counting for heavy) you would at best get it down to 2-3 recovery pieces
I was taking in consideration only 5pieces of heavy vs 5medium fyi.
I was not taking in consideration all these mechanics that decrease or stop your recovery or that heavy also gets magicka with it or the huge defense and healing boost forcing heavy to waste resources on defense and healing less often or the heavy attack resource gain buff for heavy or that outside of blocking heavy armor still has too stam recovery pool +/- similiar to medium armor in PvE and +/- 25% of PVP value.
After the change, constitution gives roughly 200 stamina/magicka recovery (400~ return every 4 seconds, recovery is every 2 seconds), or just under 300 with black rose. That's with 7 pieces of heavy armor.
Light or medium armor, at 7 pieces, give you 28% increased recovery (those armor types did not have recovery reduced, only cost). That means having a base 700 recovery will give you the same bonus fron their passives as constitution gives to heavy armor users.
Even without focusing on recovery sets, any character is going to have 500-600 recovery just from the base value and passives. My tanks have 600 magicka and stamina recovery without any gained from armor. Hell, you can get 400 from a drink or food buff alone.
The heavy armor resource return passive can be removed from heavy, I'm fine with that - heavy is for tanking and tanks don't get to rely on heavy attacks at all. The constitution passive needs to be reverted, as tanks -do- tale hits and that's exactly how a tank should be recovering his resources.
What this comes down to is that the pvp community thinks their opinion is the only one that matters, and has no regard for any other part of the game.
I dont understand. What is the constitution value of heavy armor on PTS? I go by patch notes. They said it is +/- 42% nerf. That would put 7 heavy at around 750 stam gain every 4sec. That is 375 stam regen.
With your 600 already that puts you at 975 regen no? That is equivalent to more than twice the bonus medium gets on 'clean' (no regen pieces) build.
Either you math is wrong or the patch notes, because youre talking here about 72% nerf to constituion.Edited by SodanTok on April 23, 2017 2:55PM0 -
Lynx7386✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭I personally think, Constitution was way too good, especially since it restores both ressources.
Light and medium armor should offer more sustain for their respective ressource than heavy armor, yet heavy armor offered more for both ressources at a time. If you count it together, heavy armor still restores more ressources than the others.
You're not taking into account that light and medium also reduce resource costs.PS4 / NA
M'asad - Khajiit Nightblade - Healer
Pakhet - Khajiit Dragonknight - Tank
Raksha - Khajiit Sorcerer - Stamina DPS
Bastet - Khajiit Templar - Healer
Leonin - Khajiit Warden - Tank6 -
wimhwimladimf✭✭✭They should rework it to increased healing taken from other players only, by "X" %. This way it would still be viable in group content, but you couldnt self sustain yourself like a super tanky healer.1
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Valencer✭✭✭✭✭
✭alephthiago wrote: »I would like to see 80% nerf to constitution and wrath halved again to be honest.
No, this is not a joke.
And this is why pvpers shouldn't have any say in balance changes. You can't think clearly or reasonably when you spend all day in cyrodiil.
Considering you didn't even get the numbers right in your earlier post, that's a really stupid thing to say3 -
Dracane✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭I personally think, Constitution was way too good, especially since it restores both ressources.
Light and medium armor should offer more sustain for their respective ressource than heavy armor, yet heavy armor offered more for both ressources at a time. If you count it together, heavy armor still restores more ressources than the others.
You're not taking into account that light and medium also reduce resource costs.
I know, that's a thing.
But why should heavy armor give more defense AND restore the same or more ressources ? It should restore less. They want you to make choices, heavy armor should be no exception here.Auri-El is my lord,
Trinimac is my shield,
Magnus is my mind.
My debut album on YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@Gleandra/videos4 -
wimhwimladimf✭✭✭I personally think, Constitution was way too good, especially since it restores both ressources.
Light and medium armor should offer more sustain for their respective ressource than heavy armor, yet heavy armor offered more for both ressources at a time. If you count it together, heavy armor still restores more ressources than the others.
You're not taking into account that light and medium also reduce resource costs.
I know, that's a thing.
But why should heavy armor give more defense AND restore the same or more ressources ? It should restore less. They want you to make choices, heavy armor should be no exception here.
100% agree. It should be either mobility or resource, or a mix of both.
Light armor = low resistance, fast mobility and good resource recovery
Medium armor = average mobility and recovery
Heavy armor = best resistance but low mobility and recovery.2 -
pugyourself✭✭✭✭Constitution, after the 42% nerf, is returning no more resources than a typical 2-4 pc set recovery bonus. This is far less than the recovery boost light or medium give even with low base recovery, and requires taking damage consistently to even function.
This change is pigeonholing tanks into using black rose just to maintain similar recovery to what constitution currently provides.
I think tanks probably should have to use Black Rose for the increased constitution tbh. Tanks probably shouldn't be able to effectively tank and slot two or three damage dealing sets as well. I'm saying this as someone who exclusively wears heavy armor in cyro and will most certainly feel the effects of this nerf.1 -
Lynx7386✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭pugyourself wrote: »Constitution, after the 42% nerf, is returning no more resources than a typical 2-4 pc set recovery bonus. This is far less than the recovery boost light or medium give even with low base recovery, and requires taking damage consistently to even function.
This change is pigeonholing tanks into using black rose just to maintain similar recovery to what constitution currently provides.
I think tanks probably should have to use Black Rose for the increased constitution tbh. Tanks probably shouldn't be able to effectively tank and slot two or three damage dealing sets as well. I'm saying this as someone who exclusively wears heavy armor in cyro and will most certainly feel the effects of this nerf.
Tanks already have to slot ebon and Alkosh, or one of the few other group support sets. Black rose is a pvp set.wimhwimladimf wrote: »I personally think, Constitution was way too good, especially since it restores both ressources.
Light and medium armor should offer more sustain for their respective ressource than heavy armor, yet heavy armor offered more for both ressources at a time. If you count it together, heavy armor still restores more ressources than the others.
You're not taking into account that light and medium also reduce resource costs.
I know, that's a thing.
But why should heavy armor give more defense AND restore the same or more ressources ? It should restore less. They want you to make choices, heavy armor should be no exception here.
100% agree. It should be either mobility or resource, or a mix of both.
Light armor = low resistance, fast mobility and good resource recovery
Medium armor = average mobility and recovery
Heavy armor = best resistance but low mobility and recovery.
This isn't skyrim. Armor doesn't effect mobility.
PS4 / NA
M'asad - Khajiit Nightblade - Healer
Pakhet - Khajiit Dragonknight - Tank
Raksha - Khajiit Sorcerer - Stamina DPS
Bastet - Khajiit Templar - Healer
Leonin - Khajiit Warden - Tank7 -
pugyourself✭✭✭✭Tanks already have to slot ebon and Alkosh, or one of the few other group support sets. Black rose is a pvp set.
Sorry, I didn't realize you were referring to PVE. I was thinking in terms of PVP. There are a lot of people who tank very well in heavy with two five piece damage sets and a heals monster set. Or even three damage sets. From that perspective, I think one of those sets should have to be something like BR to maintain that kind of sustain.1 -
Anti_Virus✭✭✭✭✭
✭Anti_Virus wrote: »no it is very much needed! I am sick and tired of no skilled gamers hopping into heavy amor and then feel super strong cause they can sustain so much.
However, it's the wrong fix they get sustain through heavy attack passive that gives you 25% more resources back. this passive needs to go and heavy will be perfectly fine
Perfect example of ignorance here^^.
He's also stating facts. PvP has become filled with casuals who as NRG says, hop into heavy armour and can sustain forever while being impossible to kill when they are in a zerg because they're in heavy armour.
Constitution should be gutted completely. If anything the only way to sustain in heavy is through heavy attacks imo. I'm so looking forward to everyone going back to light/medium armour and some actual skill returning to cyrodiil even though proc sets will return to the meta, it's much better than the current meta.
These are not "facts" at all majority of players in PVP wear Light Armor, followed by medium then heavy according to Zos Rich Lamberts data in a thread called "Hard Data" he came in and debunked a rediculous claim that heavy is over used and its not. Stop with the lunacy.Edited by Anti_Virus on April 23, 2017 10:28PMPower Wealth And Influence.4 -
Anti_Virus✭✭✭✭✭
✭I personally think, Constitution was way too good, especially since it restores both ressources.
Light and medium armor should offer more sustain for their respective ressource than heavy armor, yet heavy armor offered more for both ressources at a time. If you count it together, heavy armor still restores more ressources than the others.
You're not taking into account that light and medium also reduce resource costs.
Exactly @Dracane said heavy gives more resources than LA and MA with is stupid. It doesn't it gives half as much back for both.Power Wealth And Influence.0 -
Anti_Virus✭✭✭✭✭
✭Heavy armor is not OP its simply a L2P issue.
You have plenty of unblockable attacks, lots of sources of Penetration from gear and CP stars. You all just want to return to the good ol days were everyone wore Light armor with a few medium armor guys and absolutely no heavy at all.Power Wealth And Influence.2 -
Joy_Division✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Anti_Virus wrote: »no it is very much needed! I am sick and tired of no skilled gamers hopping into heavy amor and then feel super strong cause they can sustain so much.
However, it's the wrong fix they get sustain through heavy attack passive that gives you 25% more resources back. this passive needs to go and heavy will be perfectly fine
Perfect example of ignorance here^^.
He's also stating facts. PvP has become filled with casuals who as NRG says, hop into heavy armour and can sustain forever while being impossible to kill when they are in a zerg because they're in heavy armour.
Constitution should be gutted completely. If anything the only way to sustain in heavy is through heavy attacks imo. I'm so looking forward to everyone going back to light/medium armour and some actual skill returning to cyrodiil even though proc sets will return to the meta, it's much better than the current meta.
How exactly is that a fact?
Maybe you and NRG aren't nearly as good players as you think you are and take comfort in blaming the game's mechanics why the two of you lose.Make Rush of Agony "Monsters only." People should not be consecutively crowd controlled in a PvP setting. Period.6 -
Brrrofski✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭Honestly, should have just punished damage when wearing heavy.
Reduce weapon and spell damage by 20% while wearing 5 heavy. It'd change the PvP meta.
This coming from someone who's favourite Pve build is a saptank that runs 2.5k spell damage.0 -
Subversus✭✭✭✭✭
✭alephthiago wrote: »I would like to see 80% nerf to constitution and wrath halved again to be honest.
No, this is not a joke.
And this is why pvpers shouldn't have any say in balance changes. You can't think clearly or reasonably when you spend all day in cyrodiil.
At this point it's either buff heavy armor and ruin pvp for another year or keep it nerfed and make PvErs l2p and adapt to some changes instead of stacking damage sets as a tank.
Look up one of woeler's videos about how to tank in homestead, he clearly states that at this point in the game a tank could do just fine with medium.
I don't know if that guy is considered good or not, but he's got a point: tanking is easy mode as it is on live to the point that tanks stack damage sets. I'm sure you lot can learn to adapt. 
Edited by Subversus on April 23, 2017 10:49PM1