Morrowind In-Depth: The Death of MagPlars (PvE)

Ch4mpTW · April 2017

danno8 wrote: »

Ch4mpTW wrote: »

danno8 wrote: »

Ch4mpTW wrote: »

Rohamad_Ali wrote: »

Ch4mpTW wrote: »

Rohamad_Ali wrote: »

Peekachu99 wrote: »

I have several concerns/ comments about your reasoning.

A.) I didn't see it in there, but are you a vampire? If we're talking about min/ maxing for trials, you should be.

B.) Off that last point, what race are you? Looks Argonian, maybe? Or Orc? Neither of which isn't ideal for regen (Breton or High Elf). I really can't see anything other than her huge brown/ scaled boobs in that image (looks a bit like a messy tranny, if we're being honest).

C.) THREE spellpower glyphs are certainly an issue.

D.) Anything less than 1000 regen is bad, bad, bad. For any build. This is exactly the issue devs are trying to curb and you will be the player shrieking for shards and orbs and useless after they go "oomph". In PVE you're hobbled without a support monkey throwing you resources every second. In PVP you're just dead weight. The purpose of support roles is to support not carry people through every mechanic and facility of their class and resource management.

E.) Channeled Ritual's 120 magika/ 0.5s is the equivalent to 480 regen. Regen ticks every 2s. With that up, you're literally adding 480 points to your magika regen stat. That's not bad at all.

People making these knee jerk posts often demonstrate a lack of fundamental mechanics. And once more, we can invest in TWICE AS MANY CP NODES IN THE NEXT PATCH WITH A NEW ONE FOCUSED ON DIRECT DAMAGE. So you're parses will go up, even as you rework your build (or redo yours entirely, since it's not at all resource friendly) for 3.0.

Have you completed any of the hard mode trials or dungeons on the PTS ?

@Rohamad_Ali That's exactly what I'm wondering. Because if they're talking about building around sustain, how in the heck are they clearing content involving enrage mechanics? If you aren't pumping out high enough damage, you die. Simple as that. First boss VMoL shows this with shield phases. Or in a less extreme example, the second to last boss of VAA. If you don't kill the adds that she summons, they explode and wipe the group. So how are you supposed to build around sustain, while you're faced with things like that laid before you?

I've been tinkering on a StamSorc build and using regular mode dungeons to gauge a few things before I go in vet . The system right now is pretty unforgiving . Swap dmg glyphs for cost reduction and you are spinning through mobs like a weed eater with no wire left . Swap back and you are cutting adds down again but one missed dodge roll to avoid an interrupts turns in a oh shii moment of spamming a backup heal . It's a mess but somehow I am doing it lol .. I'm pretty sure I should wear makeup in my first try of vet because I'm going to be a bosses love puppet if the damn Templars and Wardens run low on recourses

@Rohamad_Ali Lmao. I'm telling you dude. These people be out here talking about how I'm spewing nonsense, and how I'm making things sound more bad than what they are. And yet, it's clear as day that there are glaring issues with the content at hand (not including overland content and questing). People forget that things have decent resistances in standard veteran dungeons, and high resistances in DLC veteran dungeons. They forget that content has enrange mechanics, and how sustained high damage is what gets content done.

Anyway, do me a favor? Try doing City of Ash II, and tell me how it goes. Normal mode to be specific, and tell me how that fire breathing Daedroth fight goes, as well as the last boss.

Just want to say I soloed CoA2 on PTS with my magplar. Just saying. Obviously used 3 cost reduction glyphs and ample use of Channeled Focus. That was it though. Soulshine, spinners and Grothdar.

You solo'd CoA2 on the PTS currently with your MagPlar? Was this normal or veteran? Also, do you have a data log or any video footage that I could glance at by a chance?

Yah it was the first thing I did. Just on normal. I figured it was one of the harder original dungeons. Veteran will probably be too hard, maybe, though I have though that before and pulled through. Veteran just takes too darn long most of the time. I didn't record myself, although I could I guess if you really need it.

The hardest part was the middle boss with the dozens of adds. Tough to sustain there, but managed.

edit: Got the new trophy you get for finishing normal dungeon versions, so I am sure it was PTS, lol.

@danno8 I see... Very interesting information. A strong insightful is in order for you. I just wish I could've observed somehow, or had some type of data or footage to go off of. Tell me, approximately how long did it take you to solo it? Also, what was your gear combination of choice?

danno8 · April 2017

Ch4mpTW wrote: »

danno8 wrote: »

Ch4mpTW wrote: »

danno8 wrote: »

Ch4mpTW wrote: »

Rohamad_Ali wrote: »

Ch4mpTW wrote: »

Rohamad_Ali wrote: »

Peekachu99 wrote: »

I have several concerns/ comments about your reasoning.

A.) I didn't see it in there, but are you a vampire? If we're talking about min/ maxing for trials, you should be.

B.) Off that last point, what race are you? Looks Argonian, maybe? Or Orc? Neither of which isn't ideal for regen (Breton or High Elf). I really can't see anything other than her huge brown/ scaled boobs in that image (looks a bit like a messy tranny, if we're being honest).

C.) THREE spellpower glyphs are certainly an issue.

D.) Anything less than 1000 regen is bad, bad, bad. For any build. This is exactly the issue devs are trying to curb and you will be the player shrieking for shards and orbs and useless after they go "oomph". In PVE you're hobbled without a support monkey throwing you resources every second. In PVP you're just dead weight. The purpose of support roles is to support not carry people through every mechanic and facility of their class and resource management.

E.) Channeled Ritual's 120 magika/ 0.5s is the equivalent to 480 regen. Regen ticks every 2s. With that up, you're literally adding 480 points to your magika regen stat. That's not bad at all.

People making these knee jerk posts often demonstrate a lack of fundamental mechanics. And once more, we can invest in TWICE AS MANY CP NODES IN THE NEXT PATCH WITH A NEW ONE FOCUSED ON DIRECT DAMAGE. So you're parses will go up, even as you rework your build (or redo yours entirely, since it's not at all resource friendly) for 3.0.

Have you completed any of the hard mode trials or dungeons on the PTS ?

@Rohamad_Ali That's exactly what I'm wondering. Because if they're talking about building around sustain, how in the heck are they clearing content involving enrage mechanics? If you aren't pumping out high enough damage, you die. Simple as that. First boss VMoL shows this with shield phases. Or in a less extreme example, the second to last boss of VAA. If you don't kill the adds that she summons, they explode and wipe the group. So how are you supposed to build around sustain, while you're faced with things like that laid before you?

I've been tinkering on a StamSorc build and using regular mode dungeons to gauge a few things before I go in vet . The system right now is pretty unforgiving . Swap dmg glyphs for cost reduction and you are spinning through mobs like a weed eater with no wire left . Swap back and you are cutting adds down again but one missed dodge roll to avoid an interrupts turns in a oh shii moment of spamming a backup heal . It's a mess but somehow I am doing it lol .. I'm pretty sure I should wear makeup in my first try of vet because I'm going to be a bosses love puppet if the damn Templars and Wardens run low on recourses

@Rohamad_Ali Lmao. I'm telling you dude. These people be out here talking about how I'm spewing nonsense, and how I'm making things sound more bad than what they are. And yet, it's clear as day that there are glaring issues with the content at hand (not including overland content and questing). People forget that things have decent resistances in standard veteran dungeons, and high resistances in DLC veteran dungeons. They forget that content has enrange mechanics, and how sustained high damage is what gets content done.

Anyway, do me a favor? Try doing City of Ash II, and tell me how it goes. Normal mode to be specific, and tell me how that fire breathing Daedroth fight goes, as well as the last boss.

Just want to say I soloed CoA2 on PTS with my magplar. Just saying. Obviously used 3 cost reduction glyphs and ample use of Channeled Focus. That was it though. Soulshine, spinners and Grothdar.

You solo'd CoA2 on the PTS currently with your MagPlar? Was this normal or veteran? Also, do you have a data log or any video footage that I could glance at by a chance?

Yah it was the first thing I did. Just on normal. I figured it was one of the harder original dungeons. Veteran will probably be too hard, maybe, though I have though that before and pulled through. Veteran just takes too darn long most of the time. I didn't record myself, although I could I guess if you really need it.

The hardest part was the middle boss with the dozens of adds. Tough to sustain there, but managed.

edit: Got the new trophy you get for finishing normal dungeon versions, so I am sure it was PTS, lol.

@danno8 I see... Very interesting information. A strong insightful is in order for you. I just wish I could've observed somehow, or had some type of data or footage to go off of. Tell me, approximately how long did it take you to solo it? Also, what was your gear combination of choice?

That's one of the longer ones. Probably an hour, maybe a bit less.

Gear was 5-2 heavy, Soulshine, Grothdar, Spinners. Had to go all 3 cost reduction enchants. Moved CP points around since the last 30 points in many CP's like Elemental Expert are only 1.5% more damage now, or regeneration, like in the case for Arcanist.

The whole reason I tried it was because (a) I hate vMSA, but knew it would be a good test and (b) unlike the DLC dungeons I knew I could solo it before and (c) it was the toughest one I could think of on normal mode so it would make a good test of how I could handle the changes.

To be clear, I think most of the changes are OK, what I frown on is the changes to group actions, like synergies. Those should be strong to allow for min-max set ups and strong group coordination. Having a well coordinated group should be rewarded with better performance in dungeons and trials than just a group that has 4-12 self-sustaining individuals.

Qbiken · April 2017

Lol STEVIL, always backing up zenimax, no matter what context. How much do they pay you (kappa) xD?

I´m fine with changes in CP to nerf sustain (I don´t like them but will most likely survive them). But then the next question arrives: Was the nerf of the classes needed (not just talking about templars, will not swap subject totaly so will still keep to the templar mostly)??? Maybe in some specifik PvP situations but in general no.

If they (ZOS) want to nerf sustain, sure do it. But don´t kill the classes uniqueness while doing so. Don´t do a overkill when it comes to nerfing the sustain (and yes it´s an overkill when you read the patch notes). Been to the PTS to test redguard, stam/magdk and templars (since the changes I don´t like in the patch notes affect those I just them) and I´m genuinely just sad on how zos killed most of my builds/characters (rarely play PvP so those who read this: No need to make assumtions on what kind of "broken meta builds" I run in pvp).

SublimeSparo · April 2017

Ch4mpTW wrote: »

rustic_potato wrote: »

Lol if u have trouble sustaining a magplar on live it's a L2P issue. On live all u need is ele drain to infinite sustain a 38k parse on a 6 mill dummy.

@rustic_potato Really? In wearing BIS trial gear, it's that easy to sustain? Is that right? Okay then. Then surely you'll have absolutely no problem providing video proof of your claims. As I would love to watch you do so. And to make sure we are on the same page, best-in-slot gear is: 5pcs. Burning Spellweave, 5pcs. Moondancer (swords on back bar), Maelstrom Lightning Staff front bar (but if you don't have it then use w/e lightning staff you have), and 2pcs. Grothdarr. Jewelry is to have spell damage glyphs. Not reduce cost or recovery glyphs as a damage dealer. I'll be waiting for your demonstration.

Edit: By the way, there should be no one grouped with you wearing Worm's Raiment. And if Elemental Drain is applied, then apply it yourself. Let's do this test fully self-sufficient, being as you make such bold claims of how easy things are to do. Potions of any kind are allowed, and being as it's just you — no one should be around or there to throw you any synergies. Again, I'll be waiting for your footage. And I'm sure others will be as well.

? This is why test dummies are useless on console. BiS for magplar in group play is dw front bar, inferno backbar.
Using lightning blockade exploiter and proccing minor vulnerability on a dummy gives you a higher dps on dummy solo, but is a dps loss in a group where healers are running lightning blockade and fp from sorcs proc minor vulnerability.

Ch4mpTW · April 2017

SublimeSparo wrote: »

Ch4mpTW wrote: »

rustic_potato wrote: »

Lol if u have trouble sustaining a magplar on live it's a L2P issue. On live all u need is ele drain to infinite sustain a 38k parse on a 6 mill dummy.

@rustic_potato Really? In wearing BIS trial gear, it's that easy to sustain? Is that right? Okay then. Then surely you'll have absolutely no problem providing video proof of your claims. As I would love to watch you do so. And to make sure we are on the same page, best-in-slot gear is: 5pcs. Burning Spellweave, 5pcs. Moondancer (swords on back bar), Maelstrom Lightning Staff front bar (but if you don't have it then use w/e lightning staff you have), and 2pcs. Grothdarr. Jewelry is to have spell damage glyphs. Not reduce cost or recovery glyphs as a damage dealer. I'll be waiting for your demonstration.

Edit: By the way, there should be no one grouped with you wearing Worm's Raiment. And if Elemental Drain is applied, then apply it yourself. Let's do this test fully self-sufficient, being as you make such bold claims of how easy things are to do. Potions of any kind are allowed, and being as it's just you — no one should be around or there to throw you any synergies. Again, I'll be waiting for your footage. And I'm sure others will be as well.

? This is why test dummies are useless on console. BiS for magplar in group play is dw front bar, inferno backbar.
Using lightning blockade exploiter and proccing minor vulnerability on a dummy gives you a higher dps on dummy solo, but is a dps loss in a group where healers are running lightning blockade and fp from sorcs proc minor vulnerability.

I'm still waiting on their documented proof though. >_>

SublimeSparo · April 2017

Ch4mpTW wrote: »

SublimeSparo wrote: »

Ch4mpTW wrote: »

rustic_potato wrote: »

Lol if u have trouble sustaining a magplar on live it's a L2P issue. On live all u need is ele drain to infinite sustain a 38k parse on a 6 mill dummy.

@rustic_potato Really? In wearing BIS trial gear, it's that easy to sustain? Is that right? Okay then. Then surely you'll have absolutely no problem providing video proof of your claims. As I would love to watch you do so. And to make sure we are on the same page, best-in-slot gear is: 5pcs. Burning Spellweave, 5pcs. Moondancer (swords on back bar), Maelstrom Lightning Staff front bar (but if you don't have it then use w/e lightning staff you have), and 2pcs. Grothdarr. Jewelry is to have spell damage glyphs. Not reduce cost or recovery glyphs as a damage dealer. I'll be waiting for your demonstration.

Edit: By the way, there should be no one grouped with you wearing Worm's Raiment. And if Elemental Drain is applied, then apply it yourself. Let's do this test fully self-sufficient, being as you make such bold claims of how easy things are to do. Potions of any kind are allowed, and being as it's just you — no one should be around or there to throw you any synergies. Again, I'll be waiting for your footage. And I'm sure others will be as well.

? This is why test dummies are useless on console. BiS for magplar in group play is dw front bar, inferno backbar.
Using lightning blockade exploiter and proccing minor vulnerability on a dummy gives you a higher dps on dummy solo, but is a dps loss in a group where healers are running lightning blockade and fp from sorcs proc minor vulnerability.

I'm still waiting on their documented proof though. >_>

Don't get me wrong, the rest of what you say holds true, but dummys on console are so useless for group dps testing, (unless you get a full 12 person group killing the 6m with all relevant buffs/debuffs but how often do people do that, and 6m isn't enough for reliable test with 8 dd's melting it) and just become exercises in boosting solo dps that doesn't accurately translate to group play.
We desperately need combat metrics or at the min the same dps/ time results to come up after boss battles in trials like we get on the dummy.
We started putting lightning blockade and ele drain over weaved with shock enchanted charged lightning staff for everyones dps tests just to even out minor vuln/ exploiter across the classes and so that people realise fire blockade is a lot more damage.

rustic_potato · April 2017

@Ch4mpTW Has my self buffed and raid buffed parse. BTW I value my privacy a lot more to give you a video. Actually its my second BIS setup 5BSW/5IA. So I can hit 50k single on rakkhat with moondancer if i actually get the sharp sword.

So L2P maybe?

Ch4mpTW · April 2017

rustic_potato wrote: »

http://imgur.com/a/edhwI

@Ch4mpTW Has my self buffed and raid buffed parse.. BTW I value my privacy a lot more to give you a video.. Actually its my second BIS setup 5BSW/5IA.. So I can hit 50k single on rakkhat with moondancer if i actually get the sharp sword..

So L2P maybe?

And you won't provide video footage to support said data, because you value your privacy... I'm not even going to bother, and apply any effort to this debate at all. You're willing to go as far as to tell people L2P, but refuse to supply video...? Okay. Okay bruh. Uh huh. Right. I'll uh... Take note of that. I promise. Lol.

rustic_potato · April 2017

If you cannot make sense out of a combat metrics report I cant help you. I certainly do not gain anything from providing a video to you. But sure whine on forums about ZOS fixing stuff without knowing how broken said stuff is.

Doctordarkspawn · April 2017

rustic_potato wrote: »

If you cannot make sense out of a combat metrics report I cant help you. I certainly do not gain anything from providing a video to you. But sure whine on forums about ZOS fixing stuff without knowing how broken said stuff is.

Photo's can be edited. Statistics, filled in like madlibs.

Video footage, or it didn't happen.

FlyLionel · April 2017

Northern_Eve wrote: »

Goshua wrote: »

Mettaricana wrote: »

Or let it go back to being a healer tank like it was before everyone cried wolf for picking a non dps class

By 'picking' I guess you deciding to play, otherwise there needs to be a warning on a few class skill tool tips and character creation screen.

"Templar is a Class in Elder Scrolls Online. These traveling knights call upon the power of light and the burning sun to deal massive damage to their enemies while restoring health, magicka and stamina to their allies."

If this is the Templar class description, do you think it will be accurate and informative after Morrowind?

No ETA on an updated description, Sorry.

exeeter702 · April 2017

Northern_Eve wrote: »

Goshua wrote: »

Mettaricana wrote: »

Or let it go back to being a healer tank like it was before everyone cried wolf for picking a non dps class

By 'picking' I guess you deciding to play, otherwise there needs to be a warning on a few class skill tool tips and character creation screen.

"Templar is a Class in Elder Scrolls Online. These traveling knights call upon the power of light and the burning sun to deal massive damage to their enemies while "

If this is the Templar class description, do you think it will be accurate and informative after Morrowind?

"Templar is a class in elder scrolls online"
This is true still.

"call upon the power of light and the burning sun to deal massive damage to their enemies"
Not sure about you but I have been on the receiving end of power if the light, dark flare, and radiant destruction and they do indeed sting. But i digress, that is a thematic description. Their damaging abilities comes from the aforementioned sun and light sources.

"restoring health, magicka and stamina to their allies." they still have healing skills and shards still restores magicka or stamina.

So yes I would dare say nothing thematically and mechanically has changed about the templar to render that description innacurate.