Morrowind In-Depth: The Death of MagPlars (PvE)

Ch4mpTW

Rohamad_Ali wrote: »

Peekachu99 wrote: »

I have several concerns/ comments about your reasoning.

A.) I didn't see it in there, but are you a vampire? If we're talking about min/ maxing for trials, you should be.

B.) Off that last point, what race are you? Looks Argonian, maybe? Or Orc? Neither of which isn't ideal for regen (Breton or High Elf). I really can't see anything other than her huge brown/ scaled boobs in that image (looks a bit like a messy tranny, if we're being honest).

C.) THREE spellpower glyphs are certainly an issue.

D.) Anything less than 1000 regen is bad, bad, bad. For any build. This is exactly the issue devs are trying to curb and you will be the player shrieking for shards and orbs and useless after they go "oomph". In PVE you're hobbled without a support monkey throwing you resources every second. In PVP you're just dead weight. The purpose of support roles is to support not carry people through every mechanic and facility of their class and resource management.

E.) Channeled Ritual's 120 magika/ 0.5s is the equivalent to 480 regen. Regen ticks every 2s. With that up, you're literally adding 480 points to your magika regen stat. That's not bad at all.

People making these knee jerk posts often demonstrate a lack of fundamental mechanics. And once more, we can invest in TWICE AS MANY CP NODES IN THE NEXT PATCH WITH A NEW ONE FOCUSED ON DIRECT DAMAGE. So you're parses will go up, even as you rework your build (or redo yours entirely, since it's not at all resource friendly) for 3.0.

Have you completed any of the hard mode trials or dungeons on the PTS ?

@Rohamad_Ali That's exactly what I'm wondering. Because if they're talking about building around sustain, how in the heck are they clearing content involving enrage mechanics? If you aren't pumping out high enough damage, you die. Simple as that. First boss VMoL shows this with shield phases. Or in a less extreme example, the second to last boss of VAA. If you don't kill the adds that she summons, they explode and wipe the group. So how are you supposed to build around sustain, while you're faced with things like that laid before you?

Rohamad_Ali

Ch4mpTW wrote: »

Rohamad_Ali wrote: »

Peekachu99 wrote: »

I have several concerns/ comments about your reasoning.

A.) I didn't see it in there, but are you a vampire? If we're talking about min/ maxing for trials, you should be.

B.) Off that last point, what race are you? Looks Argonian, maybe? Or Orc? Neither of which isn't ideal for regen (Breton or High Elf). I really can't see anything other than her huge brown/ scaled boobs in that image (looks a bit like a messy tranny, if we're being honest).

C.) THREE spellpower glyphs are certainly an issue.

D.) Anything less than 1000 regen is bad, bad, bad. For any build. This is exactly the issue devs are trying to curb and you will be the player shrieking for shards and orbs and useless after they go "oomph". In PVE you're hobbled without a support monkey throwing you resources every second. In PVP you're just dead weight. The purpose of support roles is to support not carry people through every mechanic and facility of their class and resource management.

E.) Channeled Ritual's 120 magika/ 0.5s is the equivalent to 480 regen. Regen ticks every 2s. With that up, you're literally adding 480 points to your magika regen stat. That's not bad at all.

People making these knee jerk posts often demonstrate a lack of fundamental mechanics. And once more, we can invest in TWICE AS MANY CP NODES IN THE NEXT PATCH WITH A NEW ONE FOCUSED ON DIRECT DAMAGE. So you're parses will go up, even as you rework your build (or redo yours entirely, since it's not at all resource friendly) for 3.0.

Have you completed any of the hard mode trials or dungeons on the PTS ?

@Rohamad_Ali That's exactly what I'm wondering. Because if they're talking about building around sustain, how in the heck are they clearing content involving enrage mechanics? If you aren't pumping out high enough damage, you die. Simple as that. First boss VMoL shows this with shield phases. Or in a less extreme example, the second to last boss of VAA. If you don't kill the adds that she summons, they explode and wipe the group. So how are you supposed to build around sustain, while you're faced with things like that laid before you?

I've been tinkering on a StamSorc build and using regular mode dungeons to gauge a few things before I go in vet . The system right now is pretty unforgiving . Swap dmg glyphs for cost reduction and you are spinning through mobs like a weed eater with no wire left . Swap back and you are cutting adds down again but one missed dodge roll to avoid an interrupts turns in a oh shii moment of spamming a backup heal . It's a mess but somehow I am doing it lol .. I'm pretty sure I should wear makeup in my first try of vet because I'm going to be a bosses love puppet if the damn Templars and Wardens run low on recourses

Ch4mpTW

Rohamad_Ali wrote: »

Ch4mpTW wrote: »

Rohamad_Ali wrote: »

Peekachu99 wrote: »

I have several concerns/ comments about your reasoning.

A.) I didn't see it in there, but are you a vampire? If we're talking about min/ maxing for trials, you should be.

B.) Off that last point, what race are you? Looks Argonian, maybe? Or Orc? Neither of which isn't ideal for regen (Breton or High Elf). I really can't see anything other than her huge brown/ scaled boobs in that image (looks a bit like a messy tranny, if we're being honest).

C.) THREE spellpower glyphs are certainly an issue.

D.) Anything less than 1000 regen is bad, bad, bad. For any build. This is exactly the issue devs are trying to curb and you will be the player shrieking for shards and orbs and useless after they go "oomph". In PVE you're hobbled without a support monkey throwing you resources every second. In PVP you're just dead weight. The purpose of support roles is to support not carry people through every mechanic and facility of their class and resource management.

E.) Channeled Ritual's 120 magika/ 0.5s is the equivalent to 480 regen. Regen ticks every 2s. With that up, you're literally adding 480 points to your magika regen stat. That's not bad at all.

People making these knee jerk posts often demonstrate a lack of fundamental mechanics. And once more, we can invest in TWICE AS MANY CP NODES IN THE NEXT PATCH WITH A NEW ONE FOCUSED ON DIRECT DAMAGE. So you're parses will go up, even as you rework your build (or redo yours entirely, since it's not at all resource friendly) for 3.0.

Have you completed any of the hard mode trials or dungeons on the PTS ?

@Rohamad_Ali That's exactly what I'm wondering. Because if they're talking about building around sustain, how in the heck are they clearing content involving enrage mechanics? If you aren't pumping out high enough damage, you die. Simple as that. First boss VMoL shows this with shield phases. Or in a less extreme example, the second to last boss of VAA. If you don't kill the adds that she summons, they explode and wipe the group. So how are you supposed to build around sustain, while you're faced with things like that laid before you?

I've been tinkering on a StamSorc build and using regular mode dungeons to gauge a few things before I go in vet . The system right now is pretty unforgiving . Swap dmg glyphs for cost reduction and you are spinning through mobs like a weed eater with no wire left . Swap back and you are cutting adds down again but one missed dodge roll to avoid an interrupts turns in a oh shii moment of spamming a backup heal . It's a mess but somehow I am doing it lol .. I'm pretty sure I should wear makeup in my first try of vet because I'm going to be a bosses love puppet if the damn Templars and Wardens run low on recourses

@Rohamad_Ali Lmao. I'm telling you dude. These people be out here talking about how I'm spewing nonsense, and how I'm making things sound more bad than what they are. And yet, it's clear as day that there are glaring issues with the content at hand (not including overland content and questing). People forget that things have decent resistances in standard veteran dungeons, and high resistances in DLC veteran dungeons. They forget that content has enrange mechanics, and how sustained high damage is what gets content done.

Anyway, do me a favor? Try doing City of Ash II, and tell me how it goes. Normal mode to be specific, and tell me how that fire breathing Daedroth fight goes, as well as the last boss.

Goshua

Northern_Eve wrote: »

Goshua wrote: »

Mettaricana wrote: »

Or let it go back to being a healer tank like it was before everyone cried wolf for picking a non dps class

By 'picking' I guess you deciding to play, otherwise there needs to be a warning on a few class skill tool tips and character creation screen.

"Templar is a Class in Elder Scrolls Online. These traveling knights call upon the power of light and the burning sun to deal massive damage to their enemies while restoring health, magicka and stamina to their allies."

If this is the Templar class description, do you think it will be accurate and informative after Morrowind?

If I was a new player I'd probably be sold by 'massive' and I'd look a the class skills and think they look really good.
Anyone starting the game after Morrowind won't have a clue what these dramas are all about. I almost envy them.

It doesn't exactly scream healer or tank specifically at me and 'massive' should really be changed to 'reasonable' and 'to themselves or allies'

Rohamad_Ali

Ch4mpTW wrote: »

Rohamad_Ali wrote: »

Ch4mpTW wrote: »

Rohamad_Ali wrote: »

Peekachu99 wrote: »

I have several concerns/ comments about your reasoning.

A.) I didn't see it in there, but are you a vampire? If we're talking about min/ maxing for trials, you should be.

B.) Off that last point, what race are you? Looks Argonian, maybe? Or Orc? Neither of which isn't ideal for regen (Breton or High Elf). I really can't see anything other than her huge brown/ scaled boobs in that image (looks a bit like a messy tranny, if we're being honest).

C.) THREE spellpower glyphs are certainly an issue.

D.) Anything less than 1000 regen is bad, bad, bad. For any build. This is exactly the issue devs are trying to curb and you will be the player shrieking for shards and orbs and useless after they go "oomph". In PVE you're hobbled without a support monkey throwing you resources every second. In PVP you're just dead weight. The purpose of support roles is to support not carry people through every mechanic and facility of their class and resource management.

E.) Channeled Ritual's 120 magika/ 0.5s is the equivalent to 480 regen. Regen ticks every 2s. With that up, you're literally adding 480 points to your magika regen stat. That's not bad at all.

People making these knee jerk posts often demonstrate a lack of fundamental mechanics. And once more, we can invest in TWICE AS MANY CP NODES IN THE NEXT PATCH WITH A NEW ONE FOCUSED ON DIRECT DAMAGE. So you're parses will go up, even as you rework your build (or redo yours entirely, since it's not at all resource friendly) for 3.0.

Have you completed any of the hard mode trials or dungeons on the PTS ?

@Rohamad_Ali That's exactly what I'm wondering. Because if they're talking about building around sustain, how in the heck are they clearing content involving enrage mechanics? If you aren't pumping out high enough damage, you die. Simple as that. First boss VMoL shows this with shield phases. Or in a less extreme example, the second to last boss of VAA. If you don't kill the adds that she summons, they explode and wipe the group. So how are you supposed to build around sustain, while you're faced with things like that laid before you?

I've been tinkering on a StamSorc build and using regular mode dungeons to gauge a few things before I go in vet . The system right now is pretty unforgiving . Swap dmg glyphs for cost reduction and you are spinning through mobs like a weed eater with no wire left . Swap back and you are cutting adds down again but one missed dodge roll to avoid an interrupts turns in a oh shii moment of spamming a backup heal . It's a mess but somehow I am doing it lol .. I'm pretty sure I should wear makeup in my first try of vet because I'm going to be a bosses love puppet if the damn Templars and Wardens run low on recourses

@Rohamad_Ali Lmao. I'm telling you dude. These people be out here talking about how I'm spewing nonsense, and how I'm making things sound more bad than what they are. And yet, it's clear as day that there are glaring issues with the content at hand (not including overland content and questing). People forget that things have decent resistances in standard veteran dungeons, and high resistances in DLC veteran dungeons. They forget that content has enrange mechanics, and how sustained high damage is what gets content done.

Anyway, do me a favor? Try doing City of Ash II, and tell me how it goes. Normal mode to be specific, and tell me how that fire breathing Daedroth fight goes, as well as the last boss.

I think it's a community under reaction to off shoot the former community over reaction . Are there issues that are game breaking ? Yes . Is it the end of Tamriel ? No but it is game impairing . I wish people would start testing before giving a Coffe fueled sermon at the Church of L2P . There are a lot of great things in the patch that will bo so awesome ! An then there are some things that need to have gasoline poured on them and cleansed with fire an put in a urn back on Wrobels desk . More reporting and less emotion .

Anyways I'll try to get a group for CoA 2 . (Gawd ai hate that one ..why did you pick that one ..) I'll update after .

Doctordarkspawn

notimetocare wrote: »

Nonsense and fearmongering

Not really. He took the time to lay out the math.

Maybe it's time to lay off the propaganda bub.

Peekachu99

Ch4mpTW wrote: »

Peekachu99 wrote: »

I have several concerns/ comments about your reasoning.

A.) I didn't see it in there, but are you a vampire? If we're talking about min/ maxing for trials, you should be.

B.) Off that last point, what race are you? Looks Argonian, maybe? Or Orc? Neither of which isn't ideal for regen (Breton or High Elf). I really can't see anything other than her huge brown/ scaled boobs in that image (looks a bit like a messy tranny, if we're being honest).

C.) THREE spellpower glyphs are certainly an issue.

D.) Anything less than 1000 regen is bad, bad, bad. For any build. This is exactly the issue devs are trying to curb and you will be the player shrieking for shards and orbs and useless after they go "oomph". In PVE you're hobbled without a support monkey throwing you resources every second. In PVP you're just dead weight. The purpose of support roles is to support not carry people through every mechanic and facility of their class and resource management.

E.) Channeled Ritual's 120 magika/ 0.5s is the equivalent to 480 regen. Regen ticks every 2s. With that up, you're literally adding 480 points to your magika regen stat. That's not bad at all.

People making these knee jerk posts often demonstrate a lack of fundamental mechanics. And once more, we can invest in TWICE AS MANY CP NODES IN THE NEXT PATCH WITH A NEW ONE FOCUSED ON DIRECT DAMAGE. So you're parses will go up, even as you rework your build (or redo yours entirely, since it's not at all resource friendly) for 3.0.

@Peekachu99 First off, I am not a vampire. I cured my vamprism on my MagPlar a while ago, and actually did better than when I was 1. Just my personal preference. Also, that is a Breton MagPlar. They look the way they do, because of me wearing the Dro-m'Athra skin. I specifically choose Breton to make sustaining easier, way back when I first created them eons ago. Also, those pictures were taken as I use that Templar nowadays. Once things shift over, I will undoubtably go with a different type of enchantment on jewelry, but there is no reason for me to go about using sustain glyphs on my jewelry for content pre-Morrowind. Also, your comments about being hobbled without a "support monkey" make no sense. Supports are there to throw orbs and shards in general. When you're a damage dealer in a trial, you're not there to be focused on self-sustain. No. That's not your job. Hence why it's frowned upon to go into a trial as a magicka damage dealer with Destro/Resto. No. You go in as Destro/Destro, or in a MagPlar's case — Destro/DW. What are you even talking about? O_O

Edit: My gear choice is actually considered best-in-slot for doing trials, minus the restoration staff. As that is replaced with sharpened Moondancer swords for that back bar. However, it was setup for VMA and vet dungeon solo'ing. Which is why I left the restoration staffs there. I don't know anyone in a serious end-game trial who doesn't utilize the build I listed above. Even MagDK's. An entirely different class utilizes 5x BSW, 3x Moondancer, 2x Grothdarr, and 2x Maelstrom Inferno. Although you can go 1x Maelstrom Inferno, and 1x Crafted Inferno. For MagPlars you go: 5x BSW, 5x Moondancer, 2x Grothdarr, 1x Maelstrom Lightning. That's considered best in slot.

A healer's primary job is to heal you. Period. Second responsibility: buffs. Third: resource assistance. What's happening in this game is the same thing that happened in DCUO or any game that catered to dps for too long, wherein the majority of players (dps) have forgotten what their responsiblities are in a group (some measure of weaving, self-sustain, staying out of bad stuff) while relegating every other responsibility to support roles. Why do those players get to have absolute blinders on, while expecting the other roles to pick up every ounce of slack? That's ridiculous, narrow minded and it needs to change. It's exactly the behavior that has people standing in red circles, too lazy to move, because they assume the healer or tank will somehow save them from their own stupidity. I'm not saying that's you, but that's how the attitude is fostered.

Making people consider another aspect of their build other than maxing dps is not a bad thing, and can only be good for the game. A base of 1000 regen is hardly asking too much for trial dps. Less than that and you're entirely dependent upon synergies, which, btw, take a second to activate (or longer if you're laggy/ glitching) and therefore lower your overall dps. Time you spend sustaining, is time lost dpsing. Also, in your examples, I'm assuming none of your gear is gold, given the star rating. You don't have any buffs active, either, which I can see. So the whole setup is quite disingenuous.

Have you been on PTS? I have. Played the harder vet dungeons as all three roles. Haven't been able to coordinate a trial run, yet--maybe today. And you know what: it's not the end of the world. Many of the new mechanics, and especially the new CP allocation, are great. Your belief, as well, that that yours is the only viable trial build is somewhat misguided. BSW is the only 'must' and 'meta', everything else is somewhat interchageable. Adaptive builds with a 1-5% dps variance are just as viable.

Final food for thought, and one that dedicated players, including myself, don't always like to hear: trials are an absolutely miniscule portion of the game as played by the majority of the playerbase. I'm actually an advocate of having a "raid finder" style que for the normal modes only, just to get participation in that content up. But that's another matter. Point is, hardly anyone in the community at large cares about or completes that content. So tuning an entire game to the whims of those players is most certainly a bad idea.

If you haven't been on PTS, I suggest you download it on PC and check it out. You can access every facet of the game minus the expansion, and it will clear up a lot of your concens.

Ch4mpTW

Rohamad_Ali wrote: »

Ch4mpTW wrote: »

Rohamad_Ali wrote: »

Ch4mpTW wrote: »

Rohamad_Ali wrote: »

Peekachu99 wrote: »

I have several concerns/ comments about your reasoning.

A.) I didn't see it in there, but are you a vampire? If we're talking about min/ maxing for trials, you should be.

B.) Off that last point, what race are you? Looks Argonian, maybe? Or Orc? Neither of which isn't ideal for regen (Breton or High Elf). I really can't see anything other than her huge brown/ scaled boobs in that image (looks a bit like a messy tranny, if we're being honest).

C.) THREE spellpower glyphs are certainly an issue.

D.) Anything less than 1000 regen is bad, bad, bad. For any build. This is exactly the issue devs are trying to curb and you will be the player shrieking for shards and orbs and useless after they go "oomph". In PVE you're hobbled without a support monkey throwing you resources every second. In PVP you're just dead weight. The purpose of support roles is to support not carry people through every mechanic and facility of their class and resource management.

E.) Channeled Ritual's 120 magika/ 0.5s is the equivalent to 480 regen. Regen ticks every 2s. With that up, you're literally adding 480 points to your magika regen stat. That's not bad at all.

People making these knee jerk posts often demonstrate a lack of fundamental mechanics. And once more, we can invest in TWICE AS MANY CP NODES IN THE NEXT PATCH WITH A NEW ONE FOCUSED ON DIRECT DAMAGE. So you're parses will go up, even as you rework your build (or redo yours entirely, since it's not at all resource friendly) for 3.0.

Have you completed any of the hard mode trials or dungeons on the PTS ?

@Rohamad_Ali That's exactly what I'm wondering. Because if they're talking about building around sustain, how in the heck are they clearing content involving enrage mechanics? If you aren't pumping out high enough damage, you die. Simple as that. First boss VMoL shows this with shield phases. Or in a less extreme example, the second to last boss of VAA. If you don't kill the adds that she summons, they explode and wipe the group. So how are you supposed to build around sustain, while you're faced with things like that laid before you?

I've been tinkering on a StamSorc build and using regular mode dungeons to gauge a few things before I go in vet . The system right now is pretty unforgiving . Swap dmg glyphs for cost reduction and you are spinning through mobs like a weed eater with no wire left . Swap back and you are cutting adds down again but one missed dodge roll to avoid an interrupts turns in a oh shii moment of spamming a backup heal . It's a mess but somehow I am doing it lol .. I'm pretty sure I should wear makeup in my first try of vet because I'm going to be a bosses love puppet if the damn Templars and Wardens run low on recourses

@Rohamad_Ali Lmao. I'm telling you dude. These people be out here talking about how I'm spewing nonsense, and how I'm making things sound more bad than what they are. And yet, it's clear as day that there are glaring issues with the content at hand (not including overland content and questing). People forget that things have decent resistances in standard veteran dungeons, and high resistances in DLC veteran dungeons. They forget that content has enrange mechanics, and how sustained high damage is what gets content done.

Anyway, do me a favor? Try doing City of Ash II, and tell me how it goes. Normal mode to be specific, and tell me how that fire breathing Daedroth fight goes, as well as the last boss.

I think it's a community under reaction to off shoot the former community over reaction . Are there issues that are game breaking ? Yes . Is it the end of Tamriel ? No but it is game impairing . I wish people would start testing before giving a Coffe fueled sermon at the Church of L2P . There are a lot of great things in the patch that will bo so awesome ! An then there are some things that need to have gasoline poured on them and cleansed with fire an put in a urn back on Wrobels desk . More reporting and less emotion .

Anyways I'll try to get a group for CoA 2 . (Gawd ai hate that one ..why did you pick that one ..) I'll update after .

@Rohamad_Ali Okies. Thanks again, and sorry for picking that 1. But then again, you know ole' Champ. I figured that's a dungeon that's not DLC-based, which incorporates a few things shown in trials. But at a much lower level of pressure/strain, and lacks a lot of complex and frustrating mechanics. I appreciate you testing it out for me, and I look forward to your findings and reports later on.

Doctordarkspawn

Peekachu99 wrote: »

Ch4mpTW wrote: »

Peekachu99 wrote: »

I have several concerns/ comments about your reasoning.

A.) I didn't see it in there, but are you a vampire? If we're talking about min/ maxing for trials, you should be.

B.) Off that last point, what race are you? Looks Argonian, maybe? Or Orc? Neither of which isn't ideal for regen (Breton or High Elf). I really can't see anything other than her huge brown/ scaled boobs in that image (looks a bit like a messy tranny, if we're being honest).

C.) THREE spellpower glyphs are certainly an issue.

D.) Anything less than 1000 regen is bad, bad, bad. For any build. This is exactly the issue devs are trying to curb and you will be the player shrieking for shards and orbs and useless after they go "oomph". In PVE you're hobbled without a support monkey throwing you resources every second. In PVP you're just dead weight. The purpose of support roles is to support not carry people through every mechanic and facility of their class and resource management.

E.) Channeled Ritual's 120 magika/ 0.5s is the equivalent to 480 regen. Regen ticks every 2s. With that up, you're literally adding 480 points to your magika regen stat. That's not bad at all.

People making these knee jerk posts often demonstrate a lack of fundamental mechanics. And once more, we can invest in TWICE AS MANY CP NODES IN THE NEXT PATCH WITH A NEW ONE FOCUSED ON DIRECT DAMAGE. So you're parses will go up, even as you rework your build (or redo yours entirely, since it's not at all resource friendly) for 3.0.

@Peekachu99 First off, I am not a vampire. I cured my vamprism on my MagPlar a while ago, and actually did better than when I was 1. Just my personal preference. Also, that is a Breton MagPlar. They look the way they do, because of me wearing the Dro-m'Athra skin. I specifically choose Breton to make sustaining easier, way back when I first created them eons ago. Also, those pictures were taken as I use that Templar nowadays. Once things shift over, I will undoubtably go with a different type of enchantment on jewelry, but there is no reason for me to go about using sustain glyphs on my jewelry for content pre-Morrowind. Also, your comments about being hobbled without a "support monkey" make no sense. Supports are there to throw orbs and shards in general. When you're a damage dealer in a trial, you're not there to be focused on self-sustain. No. That's not your job. Hence why it's frowned upon to go into a trial as a magicka damage dealer with Destro/Resto. No. You go in as Destro/Destro, or in a MagPlar's case — Destro/DW. What are you even talking about? O_O

Edit: My gear choice is actually considered best-in-slot for doing trials, minus the restoration staff. As that is replaced with sharpened Moondancer swords for that back bar. However, it was setup for VMA and vet dungeon solo'ing. Which is why I left the restoration staffs there. I don't know anyone in a serious end-game trial who doesn't utilize the build I listed above. Even MagDK's. An entirely different class utilizes 5x BSW, 3x Moondancer, 2x Grothdarr, and 2x Maelstrom Inferno. Although you can go 1x Maelstrom Inferno, and 1x Crafted Inferno. For MagPlars you go: 5x BSW, 5x Moondancer, 2x Grothdarr, 1x Maelstrom Lightning. That's considered best in slot.

A healer's primary job is to heal you. Period. Second responsibility: buffs. Third: resource assistance. What's happening in this game is the same thing that happened in DCUO or any game that catered to dps for too long, wherein the majority of players (dps) have forgotten what their responsiblities are in a group (some measure of weaving, self-sustain, staying out of bad stuff) while relegating every other responsibility to support roles. Why do those players get to have absolute blinders on, while expecting the other roles to pick up every ounce of slack? That's ridiculous, narrow minded and it needs to change. It's exactly the behavior that has people standing in red circles, too lazy to move, because they assume the healer or tank will somehow save them from their own stupidity. I'm not saying that's you, but that's how the attitude is fostered.

Making people consider another aspect of their build other than maxing dps is not a bad thing, and can only be good for the game. A base of 1000 regen is hardly asking too much for trial dps. Less than that and you're entirely dependent upon synergies, which, btw, take a second to activate (or longer if you're laggy/ glitching) and therefore lower your overall dps. Time you spend sustaining, is time lost dpsing. Also, in your examples, I'm assuming none of your gear is gold, given the star rating. You don't have any buffs active, either, which I can see. So the whole setup is quite disingenuous.

Have you been on PTS? I have. Played the harder vet dungeons as all three roles. Haven't been able to coordinate a trial run, yet--maybe today. And you know what: it's not the end of the world. Many of the new mechanics, and especially the new CP allocation, are great. Your belief, as well, that that yours is the only viable trial build is somewhat misguided. BSW is the only 'must' and 'meta', everything else is somewhat interchageable. Adaptive builds with a 1-5% dps variance are just as viable.

Final food for thought, and one that dedicated players, including myself, don't always like to hear: trials are an absolutely miniscule portion of the game as played by the majority of the playerbase. I'm actually an advocate of having a "raid finder" style que for the normal modes only, just to get participation in that content up. But that's another matter. Point is, hardly anyone in the community at large cares about or completes that content. So tuning an entire game to the whims of those players is most certainly a bad idea.

If you haven't been on PTS, I suggest you download it on PC and check it out. You can access every facet of the game minus the expansion, and it will clear up a lot of your concens.

Catered? It demanded it.

We've been over this, you just dont care to hear it.

Peekachu99

Doctordarkspawn wrote: »

Peekachu99 wrote: »

Ch4mpTW wrote: »

Peekachu99 wrote: »

I have several concerns/ comments about your reasoning.

A.) I didn't see it in there, but are you a vampire? If we're talking about min/ maxing for trials, you should be.

B.) Off that last point, what race are you? Looks Argonian, maybe? Or Orc? Neither of which isn't ideal for regen (Breton or High Elf). I really can't see anything other than her huge brown/ scaled boobs in that image (looks a bit like a messy tranny, if we're being honest).

C.) THREE spellpower glyphs are certainly an issue.

D.) Anything less than 1000 regen is bad, bad, bad. For any build. This is exactly the issue devs are trying to curb and you will be the player shrieking for shards and orbs and useless after they go "oomph". In PVE you're hobbled without a support monkey throwing you resources every second. In PVP you're just dead weight. The purpose of support roles is to support not carry people through every mechanic and facility of their class and resource management.

E.) Channeled Ritual's 120 magika/ 0.5s is the equivalent to 480 regen. Regen ticks every 2s. With that up, you're literally adding 480 points to your magika regen stat. That's not bad at all.

People making these knee jerk posts often demonstrate a lack of fundamental mechanics. And once more, we can invest in TWICE AS MANY CP NODES IN THE NEXT PATCH WITH A NEW ONE FOCUSED ON DIRECT DAMAGE. So you're parses will go up, even as you rework your build (or redo yours entirely, since it's not at all resource friendly) for 3.0.

@Peekachu99 First off, I am not a vampire. I cured my vamprism on my MagPlar a while ago, and actually did better than when I was 1. Just my personal preference. Also, that is a Breton MagPlar. They look the way they do, because of me wearing the Dro-m'Athra skin. I specifically choose Breton to make sustaining easier, way back when I first created them eons ago. Also, those pictures were taken as I use that Templar nowadays. Once things shift over, I will undoubtably go with a different type of enchantment on jewelry, but there is no reason for me to go about using sustain glyphs on my jewelry for content pre-Morrowind. Also, your comments about being hobbled without a "support monkey" make no sense. Supports are there to throw orbs and shards in general. When you're a damage dealer in a trial, you're not there to be focused on self-sustain. No. That's not your job. Hence why it's frowned upon to go into a trial as a magicka damage dealer with Destro/Resto. No. You go in as Destro/Destro, or in a MagPlar's case — Destro/DW. What are you even talking about? O_O

Edit: My gear choice is actually considered best-in-slot for doing trials, minus the restoration staff. As that is replaced with sharpened Moondancer swords for that back bar. However, it was setup for VMA and vet dungeon solo'ing. Which is why I left the restoration staffs there. I don't know anyone in a serious end-game trial who doesn't utilize the build I listed above. Even MagDK's. An entirely different class utilizes 5x BSW, 3x Moondancer, 2x Grothdarr, and 2x Maelstrom Inferno. Although you can go 1x Maelstrom Inferno, and 1x Crafted Inferno. For MagPlars you go: 5x BSW, 5x Moondancer, 2x Grothdarr, 1x Maelstrom Lightning. That's considered best in slot.

A healer's primary job is to heal you. Period. Second responsibility: buffs. Third: resource assistance. What's happening in this game is the same thing that happened in DCUO or any game that catered to dps for too long, wherein the majority of players (dps) have forgotten what their responsiblities are in a group (some measure of weaving, self-sustain, staying out of bad stuff) while relegating every other responsibility to support roles. Why do those players get to have absolute blinders on, while expecting the other roles to pick up every ounce of slack? That's ridiculous, narrow minded and it needs to change. It's exactly the behavior that has people standing in red circles, too lazy to move, because they assume the healer or tank will somehow save them from their own stupidity. I'm not saying that's you, but that's how the attitude is fostered.

Making people consider another aspect of their build other than maxing dps is not a bad thing, and can only be good for the game. A base of 1000 regen is hardly asking too much for trial dps. Less than that and you're entirely dependent upon synergies, which, btw, take a second to activate (or longer if you're laggy/ glitching) and therefore lower your overall dps. Time you spend sustaining, is time lost dpsing. Also, in your examples, I'm assuming none of your gear is gold, given the star rating. You don't have any buffs active, either, which I can see. So the whole setup is quite disingenuous.

Have you been on PTS? I have. Played the harder vet dungeons as all three roles. Haven't been able to coordinate a trial run, yet--maybe today. And you know what: it's not the end of the world. Many of the new mechanics, and especially the new CP allocation, are great. Your belief, as well, that that yours is the only viable trial build is somewhat misguided. BSW is the only 'must' and 'meta', everything else is somewhat interchageable. Adaptive builds with a 1-5% dps variance are just as viable.

Final food for thought, and one that dedicated players, including myself, don't always like to hear: trials are an absolutely miniscule portion of the game as played by the majority of the playerbase. I'm actually an advocate of having a "raid finder" style que for the normal modes only, just to get participation in that content up. But that's another matter. Point is, hardly anyone in the community at large cares about or completes that content. So tuning an entire game to the whims of those players is most certainly a bad idea.

If you haven't been on PTS, I suggest you download it on PC and check it out. You can access every facet of the game minus the expansion, and it will clear up a lot of your concens.

Catered? It demanded it.

We've been over this, you just dont care to hear it.

We've been over you willfully ignoring suggestions, data and PTS reports, yes. We've also systematically dismantled most of your incorrect presumptions repeatedly and in several threads. Pretty sure you're the fellow with his hands over his ears, not me. Just put me on ignore and move on--I'll return the favour.

I'm sure you'll need to get in that one last jibe about me being a robot or whatever, though.

F7sus4

STEVIL wrote: »

So the plan to put an end to the current sustain with maxdam outputs was achieved and now as the playtest goes on they can adjust the dps-challenge type encounters to suit the new meta OR folks will rework new metas to meeet the new paradigm and likely a bit of both?

Adjusting the current content balance could technically solve the problem but I also guess that intelligent rebalancing will require more (financial) resources and know-how on dev side than simply pulling the strings on CP numbers and abilities. Therefore, I don't really believe it's going to happen. This naturally leads to conclusion that meta finetuning will happen on gear/CP side.

Separate issue is the potential existence of heavy-attack meta since those builds don't really on resources that much and arguably are only a bit less powerful than any other build while still keeping full DPS spec sets.

Ch4mpTW wrote: »

There isn't enough damage, because there isn't enough sustain. There's not enough juice to put out the power required to clear things involving a "DPS Race" mechanic.

It seem to work both ways. We have not enough damage because we need sustain layer in the build (and we're still quite desperate on resources) or there's enough damage but absolutely no sustain basically meaning we're forced into full-defense after 1 minute. In short: feels like lose-vs-lose situation.

Ch4mpTW wrote: »

That last shield phase can be brutal, if not enough damage is being put out. So I'm curious if any wipes were done in that regards, or the build-up to shield phases.

It required a lot of wipes and even more adjustments. After the first wipe it was already clear that without bats#!t crazy resource and Ultimate stack+nuke, it won't be possible. What we did was slowing down the whole fight down around 33% only to have 100% resources restored via synergies and heavy attacks - before 30% shield phase starts. We still ca. 4-5 deaths afterwards. It's also worth mentioning that the fight takes long enough for the pillars to become a separate problem.

Doctordarkspawn

Peekachu99 wrote: »

Doctordarkspawn wrote: »

Peekachu99 wrote: »

Ch4mpTW wrote: »

Peekachu99 wrote: »

I have several concerns/ comments about your reasoning.

A.) I didn't see it in there, but are you a vampire? If we're talking about min/ maxing for trials, you should be.

B.) Off that last point, what race are you? Looks Argonian, maybe? Or Orc? Neither of which isn't ideal for regen (Breton or High Elf). I really can't see anything other than her huge brown/ scaled boobs in that image (looks a bit like a messy tranny, if we're being honest).

C.) THREE spellpower glyphs are certainly an issue.

D.) Anything less than 1000 regen is bad, bad, bad. For any build. This is exactly the issue devs are trying to curb and you will be the player shrieking for shards and orbs and useless after they go "oomph". In PVE you're hobbled without a support monkey throwing you resources every second. In PVP you're just dead weight. The purpose of support roles is to support not carry people through every mechanic and facility of their class and resource management.

E.) Channeled Ritual's 120 magika/ 0.5s is the equivalent to 480 regen. Regen ticks every 2s. With that up, you're literally adding 480 points to your magika regen stat. That's not bad at all.

People making these knee jerk posts often demonstrate a lack of fundamental mechanics. And once more, we can invest in TWICE AS MANY CP NODES IN THE NEXT PATCH WITH A NEW ONE FOCUSED ON DIRECT DAMAGE. So you're parses will go up, even as you rework your build (or redo yours entirely, since it's not at all resource friendly) for 3.0.

@Peekachu99 First off, I am not a vampire. I cured my vamprism on my MagPlar a while ago, and actually did better than when I was 1. Just my personal preference. Also, that is a Breton MagPlar. They look the way they do, because of me wearing the Dro-m'Athra skin. I specifically choose Breton to make sustaining easier, way back when I first created them eons ago. Also, those pictures were taken as I use that Templar nowadays. Once things shift over, I will undoubtably go with a different type of enchantment on jewelry, but there is no reason for me to go about using sustain glyphs on my jewelry for content pre-Morrowind. Also, your comments about being hobbled without a "support monkey" make no sense. Supports are there to throw orbs and shards in general. When you're a damage dealer in a trial, you're not there to be focused on self-sustain. No. That's not your job. Hence why it's frowned upon to go into a trial as a magicka damage dealer with Destro/Resto. No. You go in as Destro/Destro, or in a MagPlar's case — Destro/DW. What are you even talking about? O_O

Edit: My gear choice is actually considered best-in-slot for doing trials, minus the restoration staff. As that is replaced with sharpened Moondancer swords for that back bar. However, it was setup for VMA and vet dungeon solo'ing. Which is why I left the restoration staffs there. I don't know anyone in a serious end-game trial who doesn't utilize the build I listed above. Even MagDK's. An entirely different class utilizes 5x BSW, 3x Moondancer, 2x Grothdarr, and 2x Maelstrom Inferno. Although you can go 1x Maelstrom Inferno, and 1x Crafted Inferno. For MagPlars you go: 5x BSW, 5x Moondancer, 2x Grothdarr, 1x Maelstrom Lightning. That's considered best in slot.

A healer's primary job is to heal you. Period. Second responsibility: buffs. Third: resource assistance. What's happening in this game is the same thing that happened in DCUO or any game that catered to dps for too long, wherein the majority of players (dps) have forgotten what their responsiblities are in a group (some measure of weaving, self-sustain, staying out of bad stuff) while relegating every other responsibility to support roles. Why do those players get to have absolute blinders on, while expecting the other roles to pick up every ounce of slack? That's ridiculous, narrow minded and it needs to change. It's exactly the behavior that has people standing in red circles, too lazy to move, because they assume the healer or tank will somehow save them from their own stupidity. I'm not saying that's you, but that's how the attitude is fostered.

Making people consider another aspect of their build other than maxing dps is not a bad thing, and can only be good for the game. A base of 1000 regen is hardly asking too much for trial dps. Less than that and you're entirely dependent upon synergies, which, btw, take a second to activate (or longer if you're laggy/ glitching) and therefore lower your overall dps. Time you spend sustaining, is time lost dpsing. Also, in your examples, I'm assuming none of your gear is gold, given the star rating. You don't have any buffs active, either, which I can see. So the whole setup is quite disingenuous.

Have you been on PTS? I have. Played the harder vet dungeons as all three roles. Haven't been able to coordinate a trial run, yet--maybe today. And you know what: it's not the end of the world. Many of the new mechanics, and especially the new CP allocation, are great. Your belief, as well, that that yours is the only viable trial build is somewhat misguided. BSW is the only 'must' and 'meta', everything else is somewhat interchageable. Adaptive builds with a 1-5% dps variance are just as viable.

Final food for thought, and one that dedicated players, including myself, don't always like to hear: trials are an absolutely miniscule portion of the game as played by the majority of the playerbase. I'm actually an advocate of having a "raid finder" style que for the normal modes only, just to get participation in that content up. But that's another matter. Point is, hardly anyone in the community at large cares about or completes that content. So tuning an entire game to the whims of those players is most certainly a bad idea.

If you haven't been on PTS, I suggest you download it on PC and check it out. You can access every facet of the game minus the expansion, and it will clear up a lot of your concens.

Catered? It demanded it.

We've been over this, you just dont care to hear it.

We've been over you willfully ignoring suggestions, data and PTS reports, yes. We've also systematically dismantled most of your incorrect presumptions repeatedly and in several threads. Pretty sure you're the fellow with his hands over his ears, not me. Just put me on ignore and move on--I'll return the favour.

I'm sure you'll need to get in that one last jibe about me being a robot or whatever, though.

All you did was spew a bunch of semantic corrections about the definition of a enrage mechanic, missing the point.

And no, that points been made given how much your spewing pro ZOS propaganda these days.

Ch4mpTW

F7sus4 wrote: »

STEVIL wrote: »

So the plan to put an end to the current sustain with maxdam outputs was achieved and now as the playtest goes on they can adjust the dps-challenge type encounters to suit the new meta OR folks will rework new metas to meeet the new paradigm and likely a bit of both?

Adjusting the current content balance could technically solve the problem but I also guess that intelligent rebalancing will require more (financial) resources and know-how on dev side than simply pulling the strings on CP numbers and abilities. Therefore, I don't really believe it's going to happen. This naturally leads to conclusion that meta finetuning will happen on gear/CP side.

Separate issue is the potential existence of heavy-attack meta since those builds don't really on resources that much and arguably are only a bit less powerful than any other build while still keeping full DPS spec sets.

Ch4mpTW wrote: »

There isn't enough damage, because there isn't enough sustain. There's not enough juice to put out the power required to clear things involving a "DPS Race" mechanic.

It seem to work both ways. We have not enough damage because we need sustain layer in the build (and we're still quite desperate on resources) or there's enough damage but absolutely no sustain basically meaning we're forced into full-defense after 1 minute. In short: feels like lose-vs-lose situation.

Ch4mpTW wrote: »

That last shield phase can be brutal, if not enough damage is being put out. So I'm curious if any wipes were done in that regards, or the build-up to shield phases.

It required a lot of wipes and even more adjustments. After the first wipe it was already clear that without bats#!t crazy resource and Ultimate stack+nuke, it won't be possible. What we did was slowing down the whole fight down around 33% only to have 100% resources restored via synergies and heavy attacks - before 30% shield phase starts. We still ca. 4-5 deaths afterwards. It's also worth mentioning that the fight takes long enough for the pillars to become a separate problem.

Damn... It's to the point that pillars even became an issue? That's alarming in and of itself. I haven't heard of people worrying about pillars in that fight in months. And now that is a huge piece to the equation again. Hm... So I guess it is fair to say that there's no such a thing as skipping Lunar Phase once Morrowind is live.

F7sus4

Ch4mpTW wrote: »

Damn... It's to the point that pillars even became an issue? That's alarming in and of itself. I haven't heard of people worrying about pillars in that fight in months. And now that is a huge piece to the equation again. Hm... So I guess it is fair to say that there's no such a thing as skipping Lunar Phase once Morrowind is live.

We didn't have the chance to test it, but seeing how long did the previous fights take, I believe there's no a chance on skipping Lunar anymore.

In normal mode too.

Ch4mpTW

F7sus4 wrote: »

Ch4mpTW wrote: »

Damn... It's to the point that pillars even became an issue? That's alarming in and of itself. I haven't heard of people worrying about pillars in that fight in months. And now that is a huge piece to the equation again. Hm... So I guess it is fair to say that there's no such a thing as skipping Lunar Phase once Morrowind is live.

We didn't have the chance to test it, but seeing how long did the previous fights take, I believe there's no a chance on skipping Lunar anymore.

In normal mode too.

Wow. Just... Wow. . . That spoilers says a lot about the content's difficulty then. Which has me thinking what Maelstrom is going to be like. Actually, Maelstrom aside for a moment. What is Dragonstar going to be like?

STEVIL

Ch4mpTW wrote: »

Peekachu99 wrote: »

I have several concerns/ comments about your reasoning.

A.) I didn't see it in there, but are you a vampire? If we're talking about min/ maxing for trials, you should be.

B.) Off that last point, what race are you? Looks Argonian, maybe? Or Orc? Neither of which isn't ideal for regen (Breton or High Elf). I really can't see anything other than her huge brown/ scaled boobs in that image (looks a bit like a messy tranny, if we're being honest).

C.) THREE spellpower glyphs are certainly an issue.

D.) Anything less than 1000 regen is bad, bad, bad. For any build. This is exactly the issue devs are trying to curb and you will be the player shrieking for shards and orbs and useless after they go "oomph". In PVE you're hobbled without a support monkey throwing you resources every second. In PVP you're just dead weight. The purpose of support roles is to support not carry people through every mechanic and facility of their class and resource management.

E.) Channeled Ritual's 120 magika/ 0.5s is the equivalent to 480 regen. Regen ticks every 2s. With that up, you're literally adding 480 points to your magika regen stat. That's not bad at all.

People making these knee jerk posts often demonstrate a lack of fundamental mechanics. And once more, we can invest in TWICE AS MANY CP NODES IN THE NEXT PATCH WITH A NEW ONE FOCUSED ON DIRECT DAMAGE. So you're parses will go up, even as you rework your build (or redo yours entirely, since it's not at all resource friendly) for 3.0.

@Peekachu99 First off, I am not a vampire. I cured my vamprism on my MagPlar a while ago, and actually did better than when I was 1. Just my personal preference. Also, that is a Breton MagPlar. They look the way they do, because of me wearing the Dro-m'Athra skin. I specifically choose Breton to make sustaining easier, way back when I first created them eons ago. Also, those pictures were taken as I use that Templar nowadays. Once things shift over, I will undoubtably go with a different type of enchantment on jewelry, but there is no reason for me to go about using sustain glyphs on my jewelry for content pre-Morrowind. Also, your comments about being hobbled without a "support monkey" make no sense. Supports are there to throw orbs and shards in general. When you're a damage dealer in a trial, you're not there to be focused on self-sustain. No. That's not your job. Hence why it's frowned upon to go into a trial as a magicka damage dealer with Destro/Resto. No. You go in as Destro/Destro, or in a MagPlar's case — Destro/DW. What are you even talking about? O_O

Edit: My gear choice is actually considered best-in-slot for doing trials, minus the restoration staff. As that is replaced with sharpened Moondancer swords for that back bar. However, it was setup for VMA and vet dungeon solo'ing. Which is why I left the restoration staffs there. I don't know anyone in a serious end-game trial who doesn't utilize the build I listed above. Even MagDK's. An entirely different class utilizes 5x BSW, 3x Moondancer, 2x Grothdarr, and 2x Maelstrom Inferno. Although you can go 1x Maelstrom Inferno, and 1x Crafted Inferno. For MagPlars you go: 5x BSW, 5x Moondancer, 2x Grothdarr, 1x Maelstrom Lightning. That's considered best in slot.

of course what is consider BiS for the current low-sustain-pressure metas wont be considered necessarily biS come the new higher-sustain-pressure world?! Which is at least part of the change.

i am glad we have one poster about a trial run under PTS. hopefully they provided that feedback there so it can be used to adjust the trials. ZOS will need to use the new outputs once they see them to tweak and tune a variety of the more precisely balanced encounters.

Of course, the big issue for "death of magplar PVE" type claims is not establishing that its harder in trials in the new system but that specifically its harder for magplars but not for their competition. Most every current high dps meta will suffer in the new system. others, currently not meta will rise. that is the way of change.

idk

Peekachu99 wrote: »

Ch4mpTW wrote: »

Peekachu99 wrote: »

I have several concerns/ comments about your reasoning.

A.) I didn't see it in there, but are you a vampire? If we're talking about min/ maxing for trials, you should be.

B.) Off that last point, what race are you? Looks Argonian, maybe? Or Orc? Neither of which isn't ideal for regen (Breton or High Elf). I really can't see anything other than her huge brown/ scaled boobs in that image (looks a bit like a messy tranny, if we're being honest).

C.) THREE spellpower glyphs are certainly an issue.

D.) Anything less than 1000 regen is bad, bad, bad. For any build. This is exactly the issue devs are trying to curb and you will be the player shrieking for shards and orbs and useless after they go "oomph". In PVE you're hobbled without a support monkey throwing you resources every second. In PVP you're just dead weight. The purpose of support roles is to support not carry people through every mechanic and facility of their class and resource management.

E.) Channeled Ritual's 120 magika/ 0.5s is the equivalent to 480 regen. Regen ticks every 2s. With that up, you're literally adding 480 points to your magika regen stat. That's not bad at all.

People making these knee jerk posts often demonstrate a lack of fundamental mechanics. And once more, we can invest in TWICE AS MANY CP NODES IN THE NEXT PATCH WITH A NEW ONE FOCUSED ON DIRECT DAMAGE. So you're parses will go up, even as you rework your build (or redo yours entirely, since it's not at all resource friendly) for 3.0.

@Peekachu99 First off, I am not a vampire. I cured my vamprism on my MagPlar a while ago, and actually did better than when I was 1. Just my personal preference. Also, that is a Breton MagPlar. They look the way they do, because of me wearing the Dro-m'Athra skin. I specifically choose Breton to make sustaining easier, way back when I first created them eons ago. Also, those pictures were taken as I use that Templar nowadays. Once things shift over, I will undoubtably go with a different type of enchantment on jewelry, but there is no reason for me to go about using sustain glyphs on my jewelry for content pre-Morrowind. Also, your comments about being hobbled without a "support monkey" make no sense. Supports are there to throw orbs and shards in general. When you're a damage dealer in a trial, you're not there to be focused on self-sustain. No. That's not your job. Hence why it's frowned upon to go into a trial as a magicka damage dealer with Destro/Resto. No. You go in as Destro/Destro, or in a MagPlar's case — Destro/DW. What are you even talking about? O_O

Edit: My gear choice is actually considered best-in-slot for doing trials, minus the restoration staff. As that is replaced with sharpened Moondancer swords for that back bar. However, it was setup for VMA and vet dungeon solo'ing. Which is why I left the restoration staffs there. I don't know anyone in a serious end-game trial who doesn't utilize the build I listed above. Even MagDK's. An entirely different class utilizes 5x BSW, 3x Moondancer, 2x Grothdarr, and 2x Maelstrom Inferno. Although you can go 1x Maelstrom Inferno, and 1x Crafted Inferno. For MagPlars you go: 5x BSW, 5x Moondancer, 2x Grothdarr, 1x Maelstrom Lightning. That's considered best in slot.

A healer's primary job is to heal you. Period. Second responsibility: buffs. Third: resource assistance. What's happening in this game is the same thing that happened in DCUO or any game that catered to dps for too long, wherein the majority of players (dps) have forgotten what their responsiblities are in a group (some measure of weaving, self-sustain, staying out of bad stuff) while relegating every other responsibility to support roles. Why do those players get to have absolute blinders on, while expecting the other roles to pick up every ounce of slack? That's ridiculous, narrow minded and it needs to change. It's exactly the behavior that has people standing in red circles, too lazy to move, because they assume the healer or tank will somehow save them from their own stupidity. I'm not saying that's you, but that's how the attitude is fostered.

Making people consider another aspect of their build other than maxing dps is not a bad thing, and can only be good for the game. A base of 1000 regen is hardly asking too much for trial dps. Less than that and you're entirely dependent upon synergies, which, btw, take a second to activate (or longer if you're laggy/ glitching) and therefore lower your overall dps. Time you spend sustaining, is time lost dpsing. Also, in your examples, I'm assuming none of your gear is gold, given the star rating. You don't have any buffs active, either, which I can see. So the whole setup is quite disingenuous.

Have you been on PTS? I have. Played the harder vet dungeons as all three roles. Haven't been able to coordinate a trial run, yet--maybe today. And you know what: it's not the end of the world. Many of the new mechanics, and especially the new CP allocation, are great. Your belief, as well, that that yours is the only viable trial build is somewhat misguided. BSW is the only 'must' and 'meta', everything else is somewhat interchageable. Adaptive builds with a 1-5% dps variance are just as viable.

Final food for thought, and one that dedicated players, including myself, don't always like to hear: trials are an absolutely miniscule portion of the game as played by the majority of the playerbase. I'm actually an advocate of having a "raid finder" style que for the normal modes only, just to get participation in that content up. But that's another matter. Point is, hardly anyone in the community at large cares about or completes that content. So tuning an entire game to the whims of those players is most certainly a bad idea.

If you haven't been on PTS, I suggest you download it on PC and check it out. You can access every facet of the game minus the expansion, and it will clear up a lot of your concens.

B ) Not sure why someone would say another character looks like a Tranny other than to distract from the actual conversation.

D ) Less than 1000 Regen is bad, on live or PTS. On live over 1000 regen is bad for a DD. If your talking PTS then cost reduction glyphs are probably stronger than regen since regen only ticks every 2 seconds.

Support roles are not Support monkeys, they are doing their role, just as DD are not carrying the support roles. Healers in this game were never designed to be pure heals. DD have a first responsibility to keep themselves alive which is why we have shields, vigor and such. This is why healers, and sometime tanks, are charged with buffs, debuffs and resource support.

If you think this is changes with the current state of the PTS your absolutely mistaken. Support have a stronger role is providing assistance with resources since it is a heavier requirement in it's current state.

Your comments seem to be condescending and that is not necessary in the forums.

Ch4mpTW

Giles.floydub17_ESO wrote: »

Peekachu99 wrote: »

Ch4mpTW wrote: »

Peekachu99 wrote: »

I have several concerns/ comments about your reasoning.

A.) I didn't see it in there, but are you a vampire? If we're talking about min/ maxing for trials, you should be.

B.) Off that last point, what race are you? Looks Argonian, maybe? Or Orc? Neither of which isn't ideal for regen (Breton or High Elf). I really can't see anything other than her huge brown/ scaled boobs in that image (looks a bit like a messy tranny, if we're being honest).

C.) THREE spellpower glyphs are certainly an issue.

D.) Anything less than 1000 regen is bad, bad, bad. For any build. This is exactly the issue devs are trying to curb and you will be the player shrieking for shards and orbs and useless after they go "oomph". In PVE you're hobbled without a support monkey throwing you resources every second. In PVP you're just dead weight. The purpose of support roles is to support not carry people through every mechanic and facility of their class and resource management.

E.) Channeled Ritual's 120 magika/ 0.5s is the equivalent to 480 regen. Regen ticks every 2s. With that up, you're literally adding 480 points to your magika regen stat. That's not bad at all.

People making these knee jerk posts often demonstrate a lack of fundamental mechanics. And once more, we can invest in TWICE AS MANY CP NODES IN THE NEXT PATCH WITH A NEW ONE FOCUSED ON DIRECT DAMAGE. So you're parses will go up, even as you rework your build (or redo yours entirely, since it's not at all resource friendly) for 3.0.

@Peekachu99 First off, I am not a vampire. I cured my vamprism on my MagPlar a while ago, and actually did better than when I was 1. Just my personal preference. Also, that is a Breton MagPlar. They look the way they do, because of me wearing the Dro-m'Athra skin. I specifically choose Breton to make sustaining easier, way back when I first created them eons ago. Also, those pictures were taken as I use that Templar nowadays. Once things shift over, I will undoubtably go with a different type of enchantment on jewelry, but there is no reason for me to go about using sustain glyphs on my jewelry for content pre-Morrowind. Also, your comments about being hobbled without a "support monkey" make no sense. Supports are there to throw orbs and shards in general. When you're a damage dealer in a trial, you're not there to be focused on self-sustain. No. That's not your job. Hence why it's frowned upon to go into a trial as a magicka damage dealer with Destro/Resto. No. You go in as Destro/Destro, or in a MagPlar's case — Destro/DW. What are you even talking about? O_O

Edit: My gear choice is actually considered best-in-slot for doing trials, minus the restoration staff. As that is replaced with sharpened Moondancer swords for that back bar. However, it was setup for VMA and vet dungeon solo'ing. Which is why I left the restoration staffs there. I don't know anyone in a serious end-game trial who doesn't utilize the build I listed above. Even MagDK's. An entirely different class utilizes 5x BSW, 3x Moondancer, 2x Grothdarr, and 2x Maelstrom Inferno. Although you can go 1x Maelstrom Inferno, and 1x Crafted Inferno. For MagPlars you go: 5x BSW, 5x Moondancer, 2x Grothdarr, 1x Maelstrom Lightning. That's considered best in slot.

A healer's primary job is to heal you. Period. Second responsibility: buffs. Third: resource assistance. What's happening in this game is the same thing that happened in DCUO or any game that catered to dps for too long, wherein the majority of players (dps) have forgotten what their responsiblities are in a group (some measure of weaving, self-sustain, staying out of bad stuff) while relegating every other responsibility to support roles. Why do those players get to have absolute blinders on, while expecting the other roles to pick up every ounce of slack? That's ridiculous, narrow minded and it needs to change. It's exactly the behavior that has people standing in red circles, too lazy to move, because they assume the healer or tank will somehow save them from their own stupidity. I'm not saying that's you, but that's how the attitude is fostered.

Making people consider another aspect of their build other than maxing dps is not a bad thing, and can only be good for the game. A base of 1000 regen is hardly asking too much for trial dps. Less than that and you're entirely dependent upon synergies, which, btw, take a second to activate (or longer if you're laggy/ glitching) and therefore lower your overall dps. Time you spend sustaining, is time lost dpsing. Also, in your examples, I'm assuming none of your gear is gold, given the star rating. You don't have any buffs active, either, which I can see. So the whole setup is quite disingenuous.

Have you been on PTS? I have. Played the harder vet dungeons as all three roles. Haven't been able to coordinate a trial run, yet--maybe today. And you know what: it's not the end of the world. Many of the new mechanics, and especially the new CP allocation, are great. Your belief, as well, that that yours is the only viable trial build is somewhat misguided. BSW is the only 'must' and 'meta', everything else is somewhat interchageable. Adaptive builds with a 1-5% dps variance are just as viable.

Final food for thought, and one that dedicated players, including myself, don't always like to hear: trials are an absolutely miniscule portion of the game as played by the majority of the playerbase. I'm actually an advocate of having a "raid finder" style que for the normal modes only, just to get participation in that content up. But that's another matter. Point is, hardly anyone in the community at large cares about or completes that content. So tuning an entire game to the whims of those players is most certainly a bad idea.

If you haven't been on PTS, I suggest you download it on PC and check it out. You can access every facet of the game minus the expansion, and it will clear up a lot of your concens.

B ) Not sure why someone would say another character looks like a Tranny other than to distract from the actual conversation.

D ) Less than 1000 Regen is bad, on live or PTS. On live over 1000 regen is bad for a DD. If your talking PTS then cost reduction glyphs are probably stronger than regen since regen only ticks every 2 seconds.

Support roles are not Support monkeys, they are doing their role, just as DD are not carrying the support roles. Healers in this game were never designed to be pure heals. DD have a first responsibility to keep themselves alive which is why we have shields, vigor and such. This is why healers, and sometime tanks, are charged with buffs, debuffs and resource support.

If you think this is changes with the current state of the PTS your absolutely mistaken. Support have a stronger role is providing assistance with resources since it is a heavier requirement in it's current state.

Your comments seem to be condescending and that is not necessary in the forums.

Exactly. You need to sacrifice the sustain for damage as a damage dealer, if you're looking to get end-game content done. You have to. Someone earlier in the thread was discussing how they caught hell attempting VMoL, and couldn't even pass twins. Their speculations being that lunar won't even be skipped on normal mode. People don't understand the gravity of that statement alone. For damage to be so damn bad, that you can't even skip Lunar Phase on normal mode Maw...? That is legitimately frightening.

Now pause for a moment, and imagine a place like Sanctum Ophidia. Where you have numerous giant add pulls, and there's all types of madness occurring in regards to: Overchargers, trolls, archers, standard mobs, etc. That is nightmare fuel. That final boss with Mantikora's popping up the longer the fight drags on? That does not sound good. Meanwhile you have pull totems, and magicka draining elements at hand. As well as everything else going on around you. Something as basic as Vet Sanctum is going to be a true milestone to reach and cross.

danno8

Ch4mpTW wrote: »

Rohamad_Ali wrote: »

Ch4mpTW wrote: »

Rohamad_Ali wrote: »

Peekachu99 wrote: »

I have several concerns/ comments about your reasoning.

A.) I didn't see it in there, but are you a vampire? If we're talking about min/ maxing for trials, you should be.

B.) Off that last point, what race are you? Looks Argonian, maybe? Or Orc? Neither of which isn't ideal for regen (Breton or High Elf). I really can't see anything other than her huge brown/ scaled boobs in that image (looks a bit like a messy tranny, if we're being honest).

C.) THREE spellpower glyphs are certainly an issue.

D.) Anything less than 1000 regen is bad, bad, bad. For any build. This is exactly the issue devs are trying to curb and you will be the player shrieking for shards and orbs and useless after they go "oomph". In PVE you're hobbled without a support monkey throwing you resources every second. In PVP you're just dead weight. The purpose of support roles is to support not carry people through every mechanic and facility of their class and resource management.

E.) Channeled Ritual's 120 magika/ 0.5s is the equivalent to 480 regen. Regen ticks every 2s. With that up, you're literally adding 480 points to your magika regen stat. That's not bad at all.

People making these knee jerk posts often demonstrate a lack of fundamental mechanics. And once more, we can invest in TWICE AS MANY CP NODES IN THE NEXT PATCH WITH A NEW ONE FOCUSED ON DIRECT DAMAGE. So you're parses will go up, even as you rework your build (or redo yours entirely, since it's not at all resource friendly) for 3.0.

Have you completed any of the hard mode trials or dungeons on the PTS ?

@Rohamad_Ali That's exactly what I'm wondering. Because if they're talking about building around sustain, how in the heck are they clearing content involving enrage mechanics? If you aren't pumping out high enough damage, you die. Simple as that. First boss VMoL shows this with shield phases. Or in a less extreme example, the second to last boss of VAA. If you don't kill the adds that she summons, they explode and wipe the group. So how are you supposed to build around sustain, while you're faced with things like that laid before you?

I've been tinkering on a StamSorc build and using regular mode dungeons to gauge a few things before I go in vet . The system right now is pretty unforgiving . Swap dmg glyphs for cost reduction and you are spinning through mobs like a weed eater with no wire left . Swap back and you are cutting adds down again but one missed dodge roll to avoid an interrupts turns in a oh shii moment of spamming a backup heal . It's a mess but somehow I am doing it lol .. I'm pretty sure I should wear makeup in my first try of vet because I'm going to be a bosses love puppet if the damn Templars and Wardens run low on recourses

@Rohamad_Ali Lmao. I'm telling you dude. These people be out here talking about how I'm spewing nonsense, and how I'm making things sound more bad than what they are. And yet, it's clear as day that there are glaring issues with the content at hand (not including overland content and questing). People forget that things have decent resistances in standard veteran dungeons, and high resistances in DLC veteran dungeons. They forget that content has enrange mechanics, and how sustained high damage is what gets content done.

Anyway, do me a favor? Try doing City of Ash II, and tell me how it goes. Normal mode to be specific, and tell me how that fire breathing Daedroth fight goes, as well as the last boss.

Just want to say I soloed CoA2 on PTS with my magplar. Just saying. Obviously used 3 cost reduction glyphs and ample use of Channeled Focus. That was it though. Soulshine, spinners and Grothdar.

Ch4mpTW

danno8 wrote: »

Ch4mpTW wrote: »

Rohamad_Ali wrote: »

Ch4mpTW wrote: »

Rohamad_Ali wrote: »

Peekachu99 wrote: »

I have several concerns/ comments about your reasoning.

A.) I didn't see it in there, but are you a vampire? If we're talking about min/ maxing for trials, you should be.

B.) Off that last point, what race are you? Looks Argonian, maybe? Or Orc? Neither of which isn't ideal for regen (Breton or High Elf). I really can't see anything other than her huge brown/ scaled boobs in that image (looks a bit like a messy tranny, if we're being honest).

C.) THREE spellpower glyphs are certainly an issue.

D.) Anything less than 1000 regen is bad, bad, bad. For any build. This is exactly the issue devs are trying to curb and you will be the player shrieking for shards and orbs and useless after they go "oomph". In PVE you're hobbled without a support monkey throwing you resources every second. In PVP you're just dead weight. The purpose of support roles is to support not carry people through every mechanic and facility of their class and resource management.

E.) Channeled Ritual's 120 magika/ 0.5s is the equivalent to 480 regen. Regen ticks every 2s. With that up, you're literally adding 480 points to your magika regen stat. That's not bad at all.

People making these knee jerk posts often demonstrate a lack of fundamental mechanics. And once more, we can invest in TWICE AS MANY CP NODES IN THE NEXT PATCH WITH A NEW ONE FOCUSED ON DIRECT DAMAGE. So you're parses will go up, even as you rework your build (or redo yours entirely, since it's not at all resource friendly) for 3.0.

Have you completed any of the hard mode trials or dungeons on the PTS ?

@Rohamad_Ali That's exactly what I'm wondering. Because if they're talking about building around sustain, how in the heck are they clearing content involving enrage mechanics? If you aren't pumping out high enough damage, you die. Simple as that. First boss VMoL shows this with shield phases. Or in a less extreme example, the second to last boss of VAA. If you don't kill the adds that she summons, they explode and wipe the group. So how are you supposed to build around sustain, while you're faced with things like that laid before you?

I've been tinkering on a StamSorc build and using regular mode dungeons to gauge a few things before I go in vet . The system right now is pretty unforgiving . Swap dmg glyphs for cost reduction and you are spinning through mobs like a weed eater with no wire left . Swap back and you are cutting adds down again but one missed dodge roll to avoid an interrupts turns in a oh shii moment of spamming a backup heal . It's a mess but somehow I am doing it lol .. I'm pretty sure I should wear makeup in my first try of vet because I'm going to be a bosses love puppet if the damn Templars and Wardens run low on recourses

@Rohamad_Ali Lmao. I'm telling you dude. These people be out here talking about how I'm spewing nonsense, and how I'm making things sound more bad than what they are. And yet, it's clear as day that there are glaring issues with the content at hand (not including overland content and questing). People forget that things have decent resistances in standard veteran dungeons, and high resistances in DLC veteran dungeons. They forget that content has enrange mechanics, and how sustained high damage is what gets content done.

Anyway, do me a favor? Try doing City of Ash II, and tell me how it goes. Normal mode to be specific, and tell me how that fire breathing Daedroth fight goes, as well as the last boss.

Just want to say I soloed CoA2 on PTS with my magplar. Just saying. Obviously used 3 cost reduction glyphs and ample use of Channeled Focus. That was it though. Soulshine, spinners and Grothdar.

You solo'd CoA2 on the PTS currently with your MagPlar? Was this normal or veteran? Also, do you have a data log or any video footage that I could glance at by a chance?

BrassRazoo

The devs and players have to stop kidding themselves and living in some anti-trinity bubble thinking they can design a game where healers are tanks, tanks are healers, dps are tanks etcetera etcetera etcetera.
All this bubble and squeak can, green fairy, dreamtime cannot fit into pvp and pve at the same time.
"Tell him he's joking!"
Good effort. Get over it. Game balance is screwed. I wonder why.

NiclasFridholm

Magplars (DPS) will be just fine, spent 5 days testing and very happy with the result!

Doctordarkspawn

Ch4mpTW wrote: »

Giles.floydub17_ESO wrote: »

Peekachu99 wrote: »

Ch4mpTW wrote: »

Peekachu99 wrote: »

I have several concerns/ comments about your reasoning.

A.) I didn't see it in there, but are you a vampire? If we're talking about min/ maxing for trials, you should be.

B.) Off that last point, what race are you? Looks Argonian, maybe? Or Orc? Neither of which isn't ideal for regen (Breton or High Elf). I really can't see anything other than her huge brown/ scaled boobs in that image (looks a bit like a messy tranny, if we're being honest).

C.) THREE spellpower glyphs are certainly an issue.

D.) Anything less than 1000 regen is bad, bad, bad. For any build. This is exactly the issue devs are trying to curb and you will be the player shrieking for shards and orbs and useless after they go "oomph". In PVE you're hobbled without a support monkey throwing you resources every second. In PVP you're just dead weight. The purpose of support roles is to support not carry people through every mechanic and facility of their class and resource management.

E.) Channeled Ritual's 120 magika/ 0.5s is the equivalent to 480 regen. Regen ticks every 2s. With that up, you're literally adding 480 points to your magika regen stat. That's not bad at all.

People making these knee jerk posts often demonstrate a lack of fundamental mechanics. And once more, we can invest in TWICE AS MANY CP NODES IN THE NEXT PATCH WITH A NEW ONE FOCUSED ON DIRECT DAMAGE. So you're parses will go up, even as you rework your build (or redo yours entirely, since it's not at all resource friendly) for 3.0.

@Peekachu99 First off, I am not a vampire. I cured my vamprism on my MagPlar a while ago, and actually did better than when I was 1. Just my personal preference. Also, that is a Breton MagPlar. They look the way they do, because of me wearing the Dro-m'Athra skin. I specifically choose Breton to make sustaining easier, way back when I first created them eons ago. Also, those pictures were taken as I use that Templar nowadays. Once things shift over, I will undoubtably go with a different type of enchantment on jewelry, but there is no reason for me to go about using sustain glyphs on my jewelry for content pre-Morrowind. Also, your comments about being hobbled without a "support monkey" make no sense. Supports are there to throw orbs and shards in general. When you're a damage dealer in a trial, you're not there to be focused on self-sustain. No. That's not your job. Hence why it's frowned upon to go into a trial as a magicka damage dealer with Destro/Resto. No. You go in as Destro/Destro, or in a MagPlar's case — Destro/DW. What are you even talking about? O_O

Edit: My gear choice is actually considered best-in-slot for doing trials, minus the restoration staff. As that is replaced with sharpened Moondancer swords for that back bar. However, it was setup for VMA and vet dungeon solo'ing. Which is why I left the restoration staffs there. I don't know anyone in a serious end-game trial who doesn't utilize the build I listed above. Even MagDK's. An entirely different class utilizes 5x BSW, 3x Moondancer, 2x Grothdarr, and 2x Maelstrom Inferno. Although you can go 1x Maelstrom Inferno, and 1x Crafted Inferno. For MagPlars you go: 5x BSW, 5x Moondancer, 2x Grothdarr, 1x Maelstrom Lightning. That's considered best in slot.

A healer's primary job is to heal you. Period. Second responsibility: buffs. Third: resource assistance. What's happening in this game is the same thing that happened in DCUO or any game that catered to dps for too long, wherein the majority of players (dps) have forgotten what their responsiblities are in a group (some measure of weaving, self-sustain, staying out of bad stuff) while relegating every other responsibility to support roles. Why do those players get to have absolute blinders on, while expecting the other roles to pick up every ounce of slack? That's ridiculous, narrow minded and it needs to change. It's exactly the behavior that has people standing in red circles, too lazy to move, because they assume the healer or tank will somehow save them from their own stupidity. I'm not saying that's you, but that's how the attitude is fostered.

Making people consider another aspect of their build other than maxing dps is not a bad thing, and can only be good for the game. A base of 1000 regen is hardly asking too much for trial dps. Less than that and you're entirely dependent upon synergies, which, btw, take a second to activate (or longer if you're laggy/ glitching) and therefore lower your overall dps. Time you spend sustaining, is time lost dpsing. Also, in your examples, I'm assuming none of your gear is gold, given the star rating. You don't have any buffs active, either, which I can see. So the whole setup is quite disingenuous.

Have you been on PTS? I have. Played the harder vet dungeons as all three roles. Haven't been able to coordinate a trial run, yet--maybe today. And you know what: it's not the end of the world. Many of the new mechanics, and especially the new CP allocation, are great. Your belief, as well, that that yours is the only viable trial build is somewhat misguided. BSW is the only 'must' and 'meta', everything else is somewhat interchageable. Adaptive builds with a 1-5% dps variance are just as viable.

Final food for thought, and one that dedicated players, including myself, don't always like to hear: trials are an absolutely miniscule portion of the game as played by the majority of the playerbase. I'm actually an advocate of having a "raid finder" style que for the normal modes only, just to get participation in that content up. But that's another matter. Point is, hardly anyone in the community at large cares about or completes that content. So tuning an entire game to the whims of those players is most certainly a bad idea.

If you haven't been on PTS, I suggest you download it on PC and check it out. You can access every facet of the game minus the expansion, and it will clear up a lot of your concens.

B ) Not sure why someone would say another character looks like a Tranny other than to distract from the actual conversation.

D ) Less than 1000 Regen is bad, on live or PTS. On live over 1000 regen is bad for a DD. If your talking PTS then cost reduction glyphs are probably stronger than regen since regen only ticks every 2 seconds.

Support roles are not Support monkeys, they are doing their role, just as DD are not carrying the support roles. Healers in this game were never designed to be pure heals. DD have a first responsibility to keep themselves alive which is why we have shields, vigor and such. This is why healers, and sometime tanks, are charged with buffs, debuffs and resource support.

If you think this is changes with the current state of the PTS your absolutely mistaken. Support have a stronger role is providing assistance with resources since it is a heavier requirement in it's current state.

Your comments seem to be condescending and that is not necessary in the forums.

Exactly. You need to sacrifice the sustain for damage as a damage dealer, if you're looking to get end-game content done. You have to. Someone earlier in the thread was discussing how they caught hell attempting VMoL, and couldn't even pass twins. Their speculations being that lunar won't even be skipped on normal mode. People don't understand the gravity of that statement alone. For damage to be so damn bad, that you can't even skip Lunar Phase on normal mode Maw...? That is legitimately frightening.

Now pause for a moment, and imagine a place like Sanctum Ophidia. Where you have numerous giant add pulls, and there's all types of madness occurring in regards to: Overchargers, trolls, archers, standard mobs, etc. That is nightmare fuel. That final boss with Mantikora's popping up the longer the fight drags on? That does not sound good. Meanwhile you have pull totems, and magicka draining elements at hand. As well as everything else going on around you. Something as basic as Vet Sanctum is going to be a true milestone to reach and cross.

So essentially what your telling me is my prediction that the game designed around DPS cant support this lack of DPS is correct to a degree?

Call me Nostra-friggin-damus. Seriously. It didn't take a genius to do the math. And now we know the caliber of mathmaticians at ZOS.

Peekachu99

Giles.floydub17_ESO wrote: »

Peekachu99 wrote: »

Ch4mpTW wrote: »

Peekachu99 wrote: »

I have several concerns/ comments about your reasoning.

A.) I didn't see it in there, but are you a vampire? If we're talking about min/ maxing for trials, you should be.

B.) Off that last point, what race are you? Looks Argonian, maybe? Or Orc? Neither of which isn't ideal for regen (Breton or High Elf). I really can't see anything other than her huge brown/ scaled boobs in that image (looks a bit like a messy tranny, if we're being honest).

C.) THREE spellpower glyphs are certainly an issue.

D.) Anything less than 1000 regen is bad, bad, bad. For any build. This is exactly the issue devs are trying to curb and you will be the player shrieking for shards and orbs and useless after they go "oomph". In PVE you're hobbled without a support monkey throwing you resources every second. In PVP you're just dead weight. The purpose of support roles is to support not carry people through every mechanic and facility of their class and resource management.

E.) Channeled Ritual's 120 magika/ 0.5s is the equivalent to 480 regen. Regen ticks every 2s. With that up, you're literally adding 480 points to your magika regen stat. That's not bad at all.

People making these knee jerk posts often demonstrate a lack of fundamental mechanics. And once more, we can invest in TWICE AS MANY CP NODES IN THE NEXT PATCH WITH A NEW ONE FOCUSED ON DIRECT DAMAGE. So you're parses will go up, even as you rework your build (or redo yours entirely, since it's not at all resource friendly) for 3.0.

@Peekachu99 First off, I am not a vampire. I cured my vamprism on my MagPlar a while ago, and actually did better than when I was 1. Just my personal preference. Also, that is a Breton MagPlar. They look the way they do, because of me wearing the Dro-m'Athra skin. I specifically choose Breton to make sustaining easier, way back when I first created them eons ago. Also, those pictures were taken as I use that Templar nowadays. Once things shift over, I will undoubtably go with a different type of enchantment on jewelry, but there is no reason for me to go about using sustain glyphs on my jewelry for content pre-Morrowind. Also, your comments about being hobbled without a "support monkey" make no sense. Supports are there to throw orbs and shards in general. When you're a damage dealer in a trial, you're not there to be focused on self-sustain. No. That's not your job. Hence why it's frowned upon to go into a trial as a magicka damage dealer with Destro/Resto. No. You go in as Destro/Destro, or in a MagPlar's case — Destro/DW. What are you even talking about? O_O

Edit: My gear choice is actually considered best-in-slot for doing trials, minus the restoration staff. As that is replaced with sharpened Moondancer swords for that back bar. However, it was setup for VMA and vet dungeon solo'ing. Which is why I left the restoration staffs there. I don't know anyone in a serious end-game trial who doesn't utilize the build I listed above. Even MagDK's. An entirely different class utilizes 5x BSW, 3x Moondancer, 2x Grothdarr, and 2x Maelstrom Inferno. Although you can go 1x Maelstrom Inferno, and 1x Crafted Inferno. For MagPlars you go: 5x BSW, 5x Moondancer, 2x Grothdarr, 1x Maelstrom Lightning. That's considered best in slot.

A healer's primary job is to heal you. Period. Second responsibility: buffs. Third: resource assistance. What's happening in this game is the same thing that happened in DCUO or any game that catered to dps for too long, wherein the majority of players (dps) have forgotten what their responsiblities are in a group (some measure of weaving, self-sustain, staying out of bad stuff) while relegating every other responsibility to support roles. Why do those players get to have absolute blinders on, while expecting the other roles to pick up every ounce of slack? That's ridiculous, narrow minded and it needs to change. It's exactly the behavior that has people standing in red circles, too lazy to move, because they assume the healer or tank will somehow save them from their own stupidity. I'm not saying that's you, but that's how the attitude is fostered.

Making people consider another aspect of their build other than maxing dps is not a bad thing, and can only be good for the game. A base of 1000 regen is hardly asking too much for trial dps. Less than that and you're entirely dependent upon synergies, which, btw, take a second to activate (or longer if you're laggy/ glitching) and therefore lower your overall dps. Time you spend sustaining, is time lost dpsing. Also, in your examples, I'm assuming none of your gear is gold, given the star rating. You don't have any buffs active, either, which I can see. So the whole setup is quite disingenuous.

Have you been on PTS? I have. Played the harder vet dungeons as all three roles. Haven't been able to coordinate a trial run, yet--maybe today. And you know what: it's not the end of the world. Many of the new mechanics, and especially the new CP allocation, are great. Your belief, as well, that that yours is the only viable trial build is somewhat misguided. BSW is the only 'must' and 'meta', everything else is somewhat interchageable. Adaptive builds with a 1-5% dps variance are just as viable.

Final food for thought, and one that dedicated players, including myself, don't always like to hear: trials are an absolutely miniscule portion of the game as played by the majority of the playerbase. I'm actually an advocate of having a "raid finder" style que for the normal modes only, just to get participation in that content up. But that's another matter. Point is, hardly anyone in the community at large cares about or completes that content. So tuning an entire game to the whims of those players is most certainly a bad idea.

If you haven't been on PTS, I suggest you download it on PC and check it out. You can access every facet of the game minus the expansion, and it will clear up a lot of your concens.

B ) Not sure why someone would say another character looks like a Tranny other than to distract from the actual conversation.

D ) Less than 1000 Regen is bad, on live or PTS. On live over 1000 regen is bad for a DD. If your talking PTS then cost reduction glyphs are probably stronger than regen since regen only ticks every 2 seconds.

Support roles are not Support monkeys, they are doing their role, just as DD are not carrying the support roles. Healers in this game were never designed to be pure heals. DD have a first responsibility to keep themselves alive which is why we have shields, vigor and such. This is why healers, and sometime tanks, are charged with buffs, debuffs and resource support.

If you think this is changes with the current state of the PTS your absolutely mistaken. Support have a stronger role is providing assistance with resources since it is a heavier requirement in it's current state.

Your comments seem to be condescending and that is not necessary in the forums.

My comments are "condescending", but an entire thread started with a flame-bait title and spotty evidence (no gold gear, no buffs, missing info galore, hasn't even been on he PTS himself) is somehow okay and doesn't invite a certain amount of scepticism?

It's a beautiful day and I'm out of this thread: absolutely done talking to a segment of people that are allergic to change and can't understand a single positive of what's being proposed (there are definite rough edges and negatives, but plenty of positives, too). Feel to stay and stroke each other's hyperbolic negativity over something that's definitely going to see tweaks as early as Monday.

Maybe even just chill and see what 3.01 brings.

Ch4mpTW

Peekachu99 wrote: »

Giles.floydub17_ESO wrote: »

Peekachu99 wrote: »

Ch4mpTW wrote: »

Peekachu99 wrote: »

I have several concerns/ comments about your reasoning.

A.) I didn't see it in there, but are you a vampire? If we're talking about min/ maxing for trials, you should be.

B.) Off that last point, what race are you? Looks Argonian, maybe? Or Orc? Neither of which isn't ideal for regen (Breton or High Elf). I really can't see anything other than her huge brown/ scaled boobs in that image (looks a bit like a messy tranny, if we're being honest).

C.) THREE spellpower glyphs are certainly an issue.

D.) Anything less than 1000 regen is bad, bad, bad. For any build. This is exactly the issue devs are trying to curb and you will be the player shrieking for shards and orbs and useless after they go "oomph". In PVE you're hobbled without a support monkey throwing you resources every second. In PVP you're just dead weight. The purpose of support roles is to support not carry people through every mechanic and facility of their class and resource management.

E.) Channeled Ritual's 120 magika/ 0.5s is the equivalent to 480 regen. Regen ticks every 2s. With that up, you're literally adding 480 points to your magika regen stat. That's not bad at all.

People making these knee jerk posts often demonstrate a lack of fundamental mechanics. And once more, we can invest in TWICE AS MANY CP NODES IN THE NEXT PATCH WITH A NEW ONE FOCUSED ON DIRECT DAMAGE. So you're parses will go up, even as you rework your build (or redo yours entirely, since it's not at all resource friendly) for 3.0.

@Peekachu99 First off, I am not a vampire. I cured my vamprism on my MagPlar a while ago, and actually did better than when I was 1. Just my personal preference. Also, that is a Breton MagPlar. They look the way they do, because of me wearing the Dro-m'Athra skin. I specifically choose Breton to make sustaining easier, way back when I first created them eons ago. Also, those pictures were taken as I use that Templar nowadays. Once things shift over, I will undoubtably go with a different type of enchantment on jewelry, but there is no reason for me to go about using sustain glyphs on my jewelry for content pre-Morrowind. Also, your comments about being hobbled without a "support monkey" make no sense. Supports are there to throw orbs and shards in general. When you're a damage dealer in a trial, you're not there to be focused on self-sustain. No. That's not your job. Hence why it's frowned upon to go into a trial as a magicka damage dealer with Destro/Resto. No. You go in as Destro/Destro, or in a MagPlar's case — Destro/DW. What are you even talking about? O_O

Edit: My gear choice is actually considered best-in-slot for doing trials, minus the restoration staff. As that is replaced with sharpened Moondancer swords for that back bar. However, it was setup for VMA and vet dungeon solo'ing. Which is why I left the restoration staffs there. I don't know anyone in a serious end-game trial who doesn't utilize the build I listed above. Even MagDK's. An entirely different class utilizes 5x BSW, 3x Moondancer, 2x Grothdarr, and 2x Maelstrom Inferno. Although you can go 1x Maelstrom Inferno, and 1x Crafted Inferno. For MagPlars you go: 5x BSW, 5x Moondancer, 2x Grothdarr, 1x Maelstrom Lightning. That's considered best in slot.

A healer's primary job is to heal you. Period. Second responsibility: buffs. Third: resource assistance. What's happening in this game is the same thing that happened in DCUO or any game that catered to dps for too long, wherein the majority of players (dps) have forgotten what their responsiblities are in a group (some measure of weaving, self-sustain, staying out of bad stuff) while relegating every other responsibility to support roles. Why do those players get to have absolute blinders on, while expecting the other roles to pick up every ounce of slack? That's ridiculous, narrow minded and it needs to change. It's exactly the behavior that has people standing in red circles, too lazy to move, because they assume the healer or tank will somehow save them from their own stupidity. I'm not saying that's you, but that's how the attitude is fostered.

Making people consider another aspect of their build other than maxing dps is not a bad thing, and can only be good for the game. A base of 1000 regen is hardly asking too much for trial dps. Less than that and you're entirely dependent upon synergies, which, btw, take a second to activate (or longer if you're laggy/ glitching) and therefore lower your overall dps. Time you spend sustaining, is time lost dpsing. Also, in your examples, I'm assuming none of your gear is gold, given the star rating. You don't have any buffs active, either, which I can see. So the whole setup is quite disingenuous.

Have you been on PTS? I have. Played the harder vet dungeons as all three roles. Haven't been able to coordinate a trial run, yet--maybe today. And you know what: it's not the end of the world. Many of the new mechanics, and especially the new CP allocation, are great. Your belief, as well, that that yours is the only viable trial build is somewhat misguided. BSW is the only 'must' and 'meta', everything else is somewhat interchageable. Adaptive builds with a 1-5% dps variance are just as viable.

Final food for thought, and one that dedicated players, including myself, don't always like to hear: trials are an absolutely miniscule portion of the game as played by the majority of the playerbase. I'm actually an advocate of having a "raid finder" style que for the normal modes only, just to get participation in that content up. But that's another matter. Point is, hardly anyone in the community at large cares about or completes that content. So tuning an entire game to the whims of those players is most certainly a bad idea.

If you haven't been on PTS, I suggest you download it on PC and check it out. You can access every facet of the game minus the expansion, and it will clear up a lot of your concens.

B ) Not sure why someone would say another character looks like a Tranny other than to distract from the actual conversation.

D ) Less than 1000 Regen is bad, on live or PTS. On live over 1000 regen is bad for a DD. If your talking PTS then cost reduction glyphs are probably stronger than regen since regen only ticks every 2 seconds.

Support roles are not Support monkeys, they are doing their role, just as DD are not carrying the support roles. Healers in this game were never designed to be pure heals. DD have a first responsibility to keep themselves alive which is why we have shields, vigor and such. This is why healers, and sometime tanks, are charged with buffs, debuffs and resource support.

If you think this is changes with the current state of the PTS your absolutely mistaken. Support have a stronger role is providing assistance with resources since it is a heavier requirement in it's current state.

Your comments seem to be condescending and that is not necessary in the forums.

My comments are "condescending", but an entire thread started with a flame-bait title and spotty evidence (no gold gear, no buffs, missing info galore, hasn't even been on he PTS himself) is somehow okay and doesn't invite a certain amount of scepticism?

It's a beautiful day and I'm out of this thread: absolutely done talking to a segment of people that are allergic to change and can't understand a single positive of what's being proposed (there are definite rough edges and negatives, but plenty of positives, too). Feel to stay and stroke each other's hyperbolic negativity over something that's definitely going to see tweaks as early as Monday.

Maybe even just chill and see what 3.01 brings.

What in the hell? O_o @Giles.floydub17_ESO what are they talking about? What in the actual hell are they talking about? I'm beyond confused. ?_?

Doctordarkspawn

Ch4mpTW wrote: »

Peekachu99 wrote: »

Giles.floydub17_ESO wrote: »

Peekachu99 wrote: »

Ch4mpTW wrote: »

Peekachu99 wrote: »

I have several concerns/ comments about your reasoning.

A.) I didn't see it in there, but are you a vampire? If we're talking about min/ maxing for trials, you should be.

B.) Off that last point, what race are you? Looks Argonian, maybe? Or Orc? Neither of which isn't ideal for regen (Breton or High Elf). I really can't see anything other than her huge brown/ scaled boobs in that image (looks a bit like a messy tranny, if we're being honest).

C.) THREE spellpower glyphs are certainly an issue.

D.) Anything less than 1000 regen is bad, bad, bad. For any build. This is exactly the issue devs are trying to curb and you will be the player shrieking for shards and orbs and useless after they go "oomph". In PVE you're hobbled without a support monkey throwing you resources every second. In PVP you're just dead weight. The purpose of support roles is to support not carry people through every mechanic and facility of their class and resource management.

E.) Channeled Ritual's 120 magika/ 0.5s is the equivalent to 480 regen. Regen ticks every 2s. With that up, you're literally adding 480 points to your magika regen stat. That's not bad at all.

People making these knee jerk posts often demonstrate a lack of fundamental mechanics. And once more, we can invest in TWICE AS MANY CP NODES IN THE NEXT PATCH WITH A NEW ONE FOCUSED ON DIRECT DAMAGE. So you're parses will go up, even as you rework your build (or redo yours entirely, since it's not at all resource friendly) for 3.0.

@Peekachu99 First off, I am not a vampire. I cured my vamprism on my MagPlar a while ago, and actually did better than when I was 1. Just my personal preference. Also, that is a Breton MagPlar. They look the way they do, because of me wearing the Dro-m'Athra skin. I specifically choose Breton to make sustaining easier, way back when I first created them eons ago. Also, those pictures were taken as I use that Templar nowadays. Once things shift over, I will undoubtably go with a different type of enchantment on jewelry, but there is no reason for me to go about using sustain glyphs on my jewelry for content pre-Morrowind. Also, your comments about being hobbled without a "support monkey" make no sense. Supports are there to throw orbs and shards in general. When you're a damage dealer in a trial, you're not there to be focused on self-sustain. No. That's not your job. Hence why it's frowned upon to go into a trial as a magicka damage dealer with Destro/Resto. No. You go in as Destro/Destro, or in a MagPlar's case — Destro/DW. What are you even talking about? O_O

Edit: My gear choice is actually considered best-in-slot for doing trials, minus the restoration staff. As that is replaced with sharpened Moondancer swords for that back bar. However, it was setup for VMA and vet dungeon solo'ing. Which is why I left the restoration staffs there. I don't know anyone in a serious end-game trial who doesn't utilize the build I listed above. Even MagDK's. An entirely different class utilizes 5x BSW, 3x Moondancer, 2x Grothdarr, and 2x Maelstrom Inferno. Although you can go 1x Maelstrom Inferno, and 1x Crafted Inferno. For MagPlars you go: 5x BSW, 5x Moondancer, 2x Grothdarr, 1x Maelstrom Lightning. That's considered best in slot.

A healer's primary job is to heal you. Period. Second responsibility: buffs. Third: resource assistance. What's happening in this game is the same thing that happened in DCUO or any game that catered to dps for too long, wherein the majority of players (dps) have forgotten what their responsiblities are in a group (some measure of weaving, self-sustain, staying out of bad stuff) while relegating every other responsibility to support roles. Why do those players get to have absolute blinders on, while expecting the other roles to pick up every ounce of slack? That's ridiculous, narrow minded and it needs to change. It's exactly the behavior that has people standing in red circles, too lazy to move, because they assume the healer or tank will somehow save them from their own stupidity. I'm not saying that's you, but that's how the attitude is fostered.

Making people consider another aspect of their build other than maxing dps is not a bad thing, and can only be good for the game. A base of 1000 regen is hardly asking too much for trial dps. Less than that and you're entirely dependent upon synergies, which, btw, take a second to activate (or longer if you're laggy/ glitching) and therefore lower your overall dps. Time you spend sustaining, is time lost dpsing. Also, in your examples, I'm assuming none of your gear is gold, given the star rating. You don't have any buffs active, either, which I can see. So the whole setup is quite disingenuous.

Have you been on PTS? I have. Played the harder vet dungeons as all three roles. Haven't been able to coordinate a trial run, yet--maybe today. And you know what: it's not the end of the world. Many of the new mechanics, and especially the new CP allocation, are great. Your belief, as well, that that yours is the only viable trial build is somewhat misguided. BSW is the only 'must' and 'meta', everything else is somewhat interchageable. Adaptive builds with a 1-5% dps variance are just as viable.

Final food for thought, and one that dedicated players, including myself, don't always like to hear: trials are an absolutely miniscule portion of the game as played by the majority of the playerbase. I'm actually an advocate of having a "raid finder" style que for the normal modes only, just to get participation in that content up. But that's another matter. Point is, hardly anyone in the community at large cares about or completes that content. So tuning an entire game to the whims of those players is most certainly a bad idea.

If you haven't been on PTS, I suggest you download it on PC and check it out. You can access every facet of the game minus the expansion, and it will clear up a lot of your concens.

B ) Not sure why someone would say another character looks like a Tranny other than to distract from the actual conversation.

D ) Less than 1000 Regen is bad, on live or PTS. On live over 1000 regen is bad for a DD. If your talking PTS then cost reduction glyphs are probably stronger than regen since regen only ticks every 2 seconds.

Support roles are not Support monkeys, they are doing their role, just as DD are not carrying the support roles. Healers in this game were never designed to be pure heals. DD have a first responsibility to keep themselves alive which is why we have shields, vigor and such. This is why healers, and sometime tanks, are charged with buffs, debuffs and resource support.

If you think this is changes with the current state of the PTS your absolutely mistaken. Support have a stronger role is providing assistance with resources since it is a heavier requirement in it's current state.

Your comments seem to be condescending and that is not necessary in the forums.

My comments are "condescending", but an entire thread started with a flame-bait title and spotty evidence (no gold gear, no buffs, missing info galore, hasn't even been on he PTS himself) is somehow okay and doesn't invite a certain amount of scepticism?

It's a beautiful day and I'm out of this thread: absolutely done talking to a segment of people that are allergic to change and can't understand a single positive of what's being proposed (there are definite rough edges and negatives, but plenty of positives, too). Feel to stay and stroke each other's hyperbolic negativity over something that's definitely going to see tweaks as early as Monday.

Maybe even just chill and see what 3.01 brings.

What in the hell? O_o @Giles.floydub17_ESO what are they talking about? What in the actual hell are they talking about? I'm beyond confused. ?_?

Nobody knows.

rustic_potato

Lol if u have trouble sustaining a magplar on live it's a L2P issue. On live all u need is ele drain to infinite sustain a 38k parse on a 6 mill dummy.

Ch4mpTW

rustic_potato wrote: »

Lol if u have trouble sustaining a magplar on live it's a L2P issue. On live all u need is ele drain to infinite sustain a 38k parse on a 6 mill dummy.

@rustic_potato Really? In wearing BIS trial gear, it's that easy to sustain? Is that right? Okay then. Then surely you'll have absolutely no problem providing video proof of your claims. As I would love to watch you do so. And to make sure we are on the same page, best-in-slot gear is: 5pcs. Burning Spellweave, 5pcs. Moondancer (swords on back bar), Maelstrom Lightning Staff front bar (but if you don't have it then use w/e lightning staff you have), and 2pcs. Grothdarr. Jewelry is to have spell damage glyphs. Not reduce cost or recovery glyphs as a damage dealer. I'll be waiting for your demonstration.

Edit: By the way, there should be no one grouped with you wearing Worm's Raiment. And if Elemental Drain is applied, then apply it yourself. Let's do this test fully self-sufficient, being as you make such bold claims of how easy things are to do. Potions of any kind are allowed, and being as it's just you — no one should be around or there to throw you any synergies. Again, I'll be waiting for your footage. And I'm sure others will be as well.

danno8

Ch4mpTW wrote: »

danno8 wrote: »

Ch4mpTW wrote: »

Rohamad_Ali wrote: »

Ch4mpTW wrote: »

Rohamad_Ali wrote: »

Peekachu99 wrote: »

I have several concerns/ comments about your reasoning.

A.) I didn't see it in there, but are you a vampire? If we're talking about min/ maxing for trials, you should be.

B.) Off that last point, what race are you? Looks Argonian, maybe? Or Orc? Neither of which isn't ideal for regen (Breton or High Elf). I really can't see anything other than her huge brown/ scaled boobs in that image (looks a bit like a messy tranny, if we're being honest).

C.) THREE spellpower glyphs are certainly an issue.

D.) Anything less than 1000 regen is bad, bad, bad. For any build. This is exactly the issue devs are trying to curb and you will be the player shrieking for shards and orbs and useless after they go "oomph". In PVE you're hobbled without a support monkey throwing you resources every second. In PVP you're just dead weight. The purpose of support roles is to support not carry people through every mechanic and facility of their class and resource management.

E.) Channeled Ritual's 120 magika/ 0.5s is the equivalent to 480 regen. Regen ticks every 2s. With that up, you're literally adding 480 points to your magika regen stat. That's not bad at all.

People making these knee jerk posts often demonstrate a lack of fundamental mechanics. And once more, we can invest in TWICE AS MANY CP NODES IN THE NEXT PATCH WITH A NEW ONE FOCUSED ON DIRECT DAMAGE. So you're parses will go up, even as you rework your build (or redo yours entirely, since it's not at all resource friendly) for 3.0.

Have you completed any of the hard mode trials or dungeons on the PTS ?

@Rohamad_Ali That's exactly what I'm wondering. Because if they're talking about building around sustain, how in the heck are they clearing content involving enrage mechanics? If you aren't pumping out high enough damage, you die. Simple as that. First boss VMoL shows this with shield phases. Or in a less extreme example, the second to last boss of VAA. If you don't kill the adds that she summons, they explode and wipe the group. So how are you supposed to build around sustain, while you're faced with things like that laid before you?

I've been tinkering on a StamSorc build and using regular mode dungeons to gauge a few things before I go in vet . The system right now is pretty unforgiving . Swap dmg glyphs for cost reduction and you are spinning through mobs like a weed eater with no wire left . Swap back and you are cutting adds down again but one missed dodge roll to avoid an interrupts turns in a oh shii moment of spamming a backup heal . It's a mess but somehow I am doing it lol .. I'm pretty sure I should wear makeup in my first try of vet because I'm going to be a bosses love puppet if the damn Templars and Wardens run low on recourses

@Rohamad_Ali Lmao. I'm telling you dude. These people be out here talking about how I'm spewing nonsense, and how I'm making things sound more bad than what they are. And yet, it's clear as day that there are glaring issues with the content at hand (not including overland content and questing). People forget that things have decent resistances in standard veteran dungeons, and high resistances in DLC veteran dungeons. They forget that content has enrange mechanics, and how sustained high damage is what gets content done.

Anyway, do me a favor? Try doing City of Ash II, and tell me how it goes. Normal mode to be specific, and tell me how that fire breathing Daedroth fight goes, as well as the last boss.

Just want to say I soloed CoA2 on PTS with my magplar. Just saying. Obviously used 3 cost reduction glyphs and ample use of Channeled Focus. That was it though. Soulshine, spinners and Grothdar.

You solo'd CoA2 on the PTS currently with your MagPlar? Was this normal or veteran? Also, do you have a data log or any video footage that I could glance at by a chance?

Yah it was the first thing I did. Just on normal. I figured it was one of the harder original dungeons. Veteran will probably be too hard, maybe, though I have though that before and pulled through. Veteran just takes too darn long most of the time. I didn't record myself, although I could I guess if you really need it.

The hardest part was the middle boss with the dozens of adds. Tough to sustain there, but managed.

edit: Got the new trophy you get for finishing normal dungeon versions, so I am sure it was PTS, lol.

O_LYKOS

I already struggle with sustain with my Magplar. The loss of cost reduction I feel will be a massive impact on my Templar. I do ok on my other mag characters. Sorcerer will be fine, NB i'll have to work on keeping up my sustain. I've already changed my cp to take effect on the cost reductions on those two.