Proposed Solution to the Ultimate debates - "Ultimate Damage"

MrTarkanian48 · April 2016

So much debate with the changes to Ultimate scaling with "Magic/Elemental damage" vs. "Physical/Poison/Disease" damage...

Could ZOS implement a new type of damage, perhaps "Ultimate Damage" for lack of a better term.

Basically all Ultimates would deal this new form of damage. "Ultimate damage" would be designed to scale differently:

1) It would scale with the highest CP value between Mighty, Elemental Expert, and Thaumaturge. This would be fair for all Stam, Magic, DoT builds.
2) It would scale with the highest value between Weapon Damage or Spell damage
3) It would scale with the highest value between Max Magicka or Max Stamina
4) It would scale with the highest value between Weapon Crit% or Spell Crit %

This would allow all Ultimates to be equally effective on all builds in PVE or PVP.

NTclaymore · April 2016

This! I been saying it for years! They should change the skills based on what would suit your charrecter. But why stop at ults? some skills dont really have an option when you are morphing it because one is a stam based n one mag. So your forced. Coudnt it be awesome if insterd we had like an option to change a skill to use stamina insterd of magicka and vice versa?
Imagen I wanna cast burning breath. I want it to cast major defile on my target but I want it to consume magicka. So its a firey breath as it is now on live (tho it costs stamina on live) BUT! I have the option to change it to cost stamina. Its still the same skill. no new morph. Now its just a poison breath and costs stamina. I still get major defile. If this could be done for every skill in the game we would have more build options. all skills would actully have two morphs insterd of just 1 your forced into.
It would create alot of options to play as you want. Sure if your stam based and deside you want Burning breath to be magicka based its dmg will allso be magicka based so its dmg will suck for you but you have the option!
Like all other Elder scrolls game. We need to be able to play the way we want as much as balance issues will allow us to.

Birdovic · April 2016

A pretty interesting idea.
This could allow for new gear to increase "Ultimate Effectivity" or something, which boosts healing and/or Damage output of Ultimates.

So you could go for Dawnbreaker as Magicka Class and still put it to good use, just to mention one example.

It could be listed under Spelldamage/Weapon Damage or something, as a separate number in the stats screen.

If a nerf or buff is necessary for Ability A, they could directly change its scaling to fit in.

Emma_Overload · April 2016

Your solution doesn't really create "Ultimate Damage", though. A true Ultimate Damage solution would need:
.
1) A unique base stat on which to scale Ultimate Damage.

2) A unique mitigation method for Ultimate Damage.

3) A unique method to penetrate Ultimate mitigation.

4) Appropriate Class, Racial, Armor, Weapon and CP passives to modify the above stats.

RoyJade · April 2016

I'm not entirely for such a change because of some passive who'll be wasted for them. Kindling, world in flame, energized, disintegrate and flame talent, mostly. And sun set too.

I highly prefer that ultimate shouldn't scale with thaumaturge, mighty or elemental expert, not with physical/spell penetration, but still scale with every passive and other stars/component (so max pool, damage and critical chance/bonus). Then, fuse the bow expert star with the melee weapon expert star to get a weapon expert star, and use the other star to boost damage AND penetration for all ultimate. Like that, we can really specialize on ultimate use, we have more choice when using a blue star, and every ultimate will be good for every playstyle.

BurritoESO · April 2016

Finally someone on the forums who has a good idea

MrTarkanian48 · April 2016

Emma_Eunjung wrote: »

Your solution doesn't really create "Ultimate Damage", though. A true Ultimate Damage solution would need:
.
1) A unique base stat on which to scale Ultimate Damage.

2) A unique mitigation method for Ultimate Damage.

3) A unique method to penetrate Ultimate mitigation.

4) Appropriate Class, Racial, Armor, Weapon and CP passives to modify the above stats.

The idea would be that it just grabs your highest values, instead of creating a whole new type of damage.

Mitigation against it would work in a similar way.

So if you are a Stam build with CP in Mighty and use "Overload" as a Stam Sorc, an opponents Physical Resist and Hardy CP would counter it.

Now if a Mag Sorc would use Overload, an opponents Spell Resist and Ele Defender CP would counter it.

AverageJo3Gam3r · April 2016

Why not make ultimate damage scale with combination of mag+stam and weapon damage + spell damage? And add three new champion stars: a Mage star to increase damage/healing of ultimates, a warrior star to decrease damage received from ultimates, and a thief star for reducing costs of ultimates.

talashgreydragb16_ESO · April 2016

MrTarkanian48 wrote: »

So much debate with the changes to Ultimate scaling with "Magic/Elemental damage" vs. "Physical/Poison/Disease" damage...

Could ZOS implement a new type of damage, perhaps "Ultimate Damage" for lack of a better term.

Basically all Ultimates would deal this new form of damage. "Ultimate damage" would be designed to scale differently:

1) It would scale with the highest CP value between Mighty, Elemental Expert, and Thaumaturge. This would be fair for all Stam, Magic, DoT builds.
2) It would scale with the highest value between Weapon Damage or Spell damage
3) It would scale with the highest value between Max Magicka or Max Stamina
4) It would scale with the highest value between Weapon Crit% or Spell Crit %

This would allow all Ultimates to be equally effective on all builds in PVE or PVP.

Yes, this is precisely what should be done.

In a way it's surprising this isn't already the case, as ultimates were changed some time ago to scale with your highest stat, be it Stamina or Magicka. This means we're in a weird system where ultimates are chosen simply because they either scale with Mighty or Elemental Expert, which to be fair are also part of the problem along with racial passives.

Honestly, if Mighty and Elemental Expert were removed from the game I think it'd be a lot easier to balance things! That 25% damage bonus just narrows down skill options too much. (And going off on a tangent, pets should also work in the same was as ultimates ought to; scale on the highest stat and do "pet damage", not physical/magical.)

But yes, I do wish the developers would just change Ultimates to do their own kind of damage, making them far easier to balance. The only downside I can see is that people might be overwhelmed at finally having a legitimate choice between ultimates to use, instead of having to only use ones that did physical/magical/etc damage to remain viable! Real choice? The horror!

Yoyuyi999 · April 2016

100% Agree. Ultimate damage is an excellent idea and would give a LOT of diversity to all builds and would balance out stamina and magicka equally

utb99 · April 2017

Necro

Ulti damage should be calculated on whether:
Your Spell or Physical Penetration is higher
(Thus determines what resistance is used)
Your Max Mag/Spell Dam or Stam/Weap Dam is higher
Your Spell Crit or Weap Crit is higher

To boost ultimate damage, a new CP to boost it specifically should be introduced.