DK tanks no longer meta?

Gaggin · April 2017

Okay, those lovely chains are a must, be it tank or dps but...

The stamina management on dk tanks seem like it's taking a huge hit. Helping Hands gets a slight nerf for stamina, vigor costs a lot more, and repent no longer can be used for dk tanks. Add in the change to cost reduction cp and dk tanks seem to be in very hot water. I'm not sure how the new shard/orb synergy thing is gonna work out, but it seems all tanks will lose a synergy there.

You know who DOES get stamina from repent still? Templar tanks... I have long been a proponent of using them over dks in all craglorn trials. I already don't have any stamina cost reduction cp as it is and I don't have much in the way of stam issues as Templars can use BoL for heals and have superior mag regen with focus. We even got a buff to the stam it returns us(assuming that tanks have an average of 26-28k stamina).

This is of course not including warden tanks into the equation, but I believe the Templar definitely becomes a more attractive option with these new changes.

souravami · April 2017

But what will a templar tank do against a single target boss fight? There is nothing to repent. How will you get back your stamina? On the other hand you can not help your team much with templar tank.
Repentance? Only restores stam for you and not other teammates now(does restore a little heath though).
BOL? will only heal in a 180 degree cone infront of you. As a tank you are facing the boss and teammates are behind you, cannot heal them with bol anymore.
I do believe stam dk is no longer high above all other classes for tanking, but templar isn't in a better place either. Wardens on the other hand have access to minor endurance, minor protection, major resolve/ward,evasion all those buffs as part of their skillset. They can also provide major resolve/ward to the whole team with press of one button. So imo having one warden tank will be mandatory in the coming patch.

Gaggin · April 2017

Teammates are behind the tank? I'm pretty sure most tanks face the boss away from the group, and the group lines up behind it, so the group gets healed by BoL still. In fact this is good because if you suck that much at positioning you don't deserve the heal anyway.

So lets look at the 'single target boss fights'....

Storm atro- no adds but not a hard fight at all for tanks.
Stone atro- some adds, you'll get some stam back
Valeriel- lots of adds to repent
Axes- No repent here really, though I never have stam issues on this fight anyway. Just wear EG, support helms are no good. There ARE adds to repent but positioning makes it not worth it since healers no longer can do it for you.

Roko- no adds after tons of trash, not a hard fight at all
welwa boss- tons of adds to repent
Warrior- Some adds to repent, kinda handy as his stoning kills your rsources when you break.

Manti- ya no repent here, but adds are in abundance for the rest of the fights in this trial until serpent, who doesn't cause stam issues cus you can heavy attack on poison phase if you need to and hits like a wet noodle.

I don't rally recommend Templar tank on vmol but you certainly can do it without much problems, and like I said this isn't taking into account warden(which everyone including me will wanna at least try anyway). The repent now makes Templar tanks in particular much more stamina efficient, and you cannot ignore the fact that Templars can keep themselves and group healed with magicka while dks have to use stamina. The only issue I see is if you have a greedy stamplar in group who steals repents, so that means I'll have to boot all zero of them from our guild.

souravami · April 2017

Oops, I was dead wrong with that positioning bit

Templars are also losing their major mending buff though(so are dks to an extent). So your self heals/group heals as a tank won't be as strong as it's right now.

Gaggin · April 2017

ya tanks in general will be more reliant on their nerfed healers. For healing the group, not a big deal, my BoL currently does 13k average heals, 25k crits in raid buffed scenarios, so a rough 20percent dip shouldn't be too unmanageable, and it does affect dks a bit more I think cus they basically don't even get the major mending but for a second or so anyway.

Tremors · April 2017

Well now a Templar tank can slot luminous shards and have people synergize them for their own resource return.

Pallio · April 2017

Play whatever you want, slap a shield on it and bang you are a tank, most importantly just have fun.

Sakiri · April 2017

souravami wrote: »

BOL? will only heal in a 180 degree cone infront of you. As a tank you are facing the boss and teammates are behind you, cannot heal them with bol anymore.

Wait, teammates behind you?

Do you not turn the bosses around in this game or something? First thing I do after engagement in every other game is spin that sucker around so he doesn't cleave the group....

Cêltic421 · April 2017

souravami wrote: »

But what will a templar tank do against a single target boss fight? There is nothing to repent. How will you get back your stamina? On the other hand you can not help your team much with templar tank.
Repentance? Only restores stam for you and not other teammates now(does restore a little heath though).
BOL? will only heal in a 180 degree cone infront of you. As a tank you are facing the boss and teammates are behind you, cannot heal them with bol anymore.
I do believe stam dk is no longer high above all other classes for tanking, but templar isn't in a better place either. Wardens on the other hand have access to minor endurance, minor protection, major resolve/ward,evasion all those buffs as part of their skillset. They can also provide major resolve/ward to the whole team with press of one button. So imo having one warden tank will be mandatory in the coming patch.

Teammates should be behind the boss and tank should be in front of boss. BoL is not nerfed that bad, I can easily live with BoL only healing 180 degrees in front of the templar not much of a big deal.

dylanjaygrobbelaarb16_ESO · April 2017

Gaggin wrote: »

Okay, those lovely chains are a must, be it tank or dps but...

The stamina management on dk tanks seem like it's taking a huge hit. Helping Hands gets a slight nerf for stamina, vigor costs a lot more, and repent no longer can be used for dk tanks. Add in the change to cost reduction cp and dk tanks seem to be in very hot water. I'm not sure how the new shard/orb synergy thing is gonna work out, but it seems all tanks will lose a synergy there.

You know who DOES get stamina from repent still? Templar tanks... I have long been a proponent of using them over dks in all craglorn trials. I already don't have any stamina cost reduction cp as it is and I don't have much in the way of stam issues as Templars can use BoL for heals and have superior mag regen with focus. We even got a buff to the stam it returns us(assuming that tanks have an average of 26-28k stamina).

This is of course not including warden tanks into the equation, but I believe the Templar definitely becomes a more attractive option with these new changes.

but you dont even need stamina or stamina regen to tank, i do it on magica dk with block cost reduction traits on all gear and jewelry and have like 500 stam regen and 10k stam. do everything but trials(because i dont run trials) with ease. just need a heavy attack and a potion now and then and your fine. it dosent do damage but with all the support it pulls the healer can run a dps/heal build.

Rungar · April 2017

warden will easily be the best tank. The frost line dmg scales off of health.

-every major buff
-best resource return
-minor protection
-strong hots
-extra dps from pet
- aoe debuff

so before long youll be seeing lots of heavily armored imperial and nord wardens rolling with 60-70k health, strong dps, low stam and magicks (15-18K) but strong regen, and if one of these beasts ever gets below 50% health, wham healing explodes with major mending.

I'm surprised they didn't get an aoe taunt.

I imagine warden will be more popular than the sorcerer. Ill prolly roll up one myself.

Oompuh · April 2017

Rungar wrote: »

warden will easily be the best tank. The frost line dmg scales off of health.

-every major buff
-best resource return
-minor protection
-strong hots
-extra dps from pet
- aoe debuff

so before long youll be seeing lots of heavily armored imperial and nord wardens rolling with 60-70k health, strong dps, low stam and magicks (15-18K) but strong regen, and if one of these beasts ever gets below 50% health, wham healing explodes with major mending.

I'm surprised they didn't get an aoe taunt.

I imagine warden will be more popular than the sorcerer. Ill prolly roll up one myself.

Please explain how warden has better sustain than a dk

Drdeath20 · April 2017

Templar tanks werent top before. How are we any better now?

Rungar · April 2017

netch
natures gift
flourish
enchanted growth
crystalized shield

Nelson_Rebel · April 2017

Rungar wrote: »

netch
natures gift
flourish
enchanted growth
crystalized shield

Ya pretty much

This makes the warden top tank choice now

And top healer

Oompuh · April 2017

netch - 4k resources by spending 2k over 25 seconds so... 2000 / 25 is less than 100 per second

natures gift - orginally only magicka, now stamina as well. Only 300 per cast

flourish - no recovery while blocking

enchanted growth - again no recovery while blocking

crystalized shield - costs magic. Gets magic and ult. Ult doesn't restore resources.

Helping hands - 1000 stamina per cast.
Battle roar - "almost full" resources when using an ult

WalksonGraves · April 2017

Oompuh wrote: »

Rungar wrote: »

warden will easily be the best tank. The frost line dmg scales off of health.

-every major buff
-best resource return
-minor protection
-strong hots
-extra dps from pet
- aoe debuff

so before long youll be seeing lots of heavily armored imperial and nord wardens rolling with 60-70k health, strong dps, low stam and magicks (15-18K) but strong regen, and if one of these beasts ever gets below 50% health, wham healing explodes with major mending.

I'm surprised they didn't get an aoe taunt.

I imagine warden will be more popular than the sorcerer. Ill prolly roll up one myself.

Please explain how warden has better sustain than a dk

Desert rose

Oompuh · April 2017

WalksonGraves wrote: »

Oompuh wrote: »

Rungar wrote: »

warden will easily be the best tank. The frost line dmg scales off of health.

-every major buff
-best resource return
-minor protection
-strong hots
-extra dps from pet
- aoe debuff

so before long youll be seeing lots of heavily armored imperial and nord wardens rolling with 60-70k health, strong dps, low stam and magicks (15-18K) but strong regen, and if one of these beasts ever gets below 50% health, wham healing explodes with major mending.

I'm surprised they didn't get an aoe taunt.

I imagine warden will be more popular than the sorcerer. Ill prolly roll up one myself.

Please explain how warden has better sustain than a dk

Desert rose

I'd rather use Pirate Skeleton before I use a frost staff

Waffennacht · April 2017

Oompuh wrote: »

WalksonGraves wrote: »

Oompuh wrote: »

Rungar wrote: »

warden will easily be the best tank. The frost line dmg scales off of health.

-every major buff
-best resource return
-minor protection
-strong hots
-extra dps from pet
- aoe debuff

so before long youll be seeing lots of heavily armored imperial and nord wardens rolling with 60-70k health, strong dps, low stam and magicks (15-18K) but strong regen, and if one of these beasts ever gets below 50% health, wham healing explodes with major mending.

I'm surprised they didn't get an aoe taunt.

I imagine warden will be more popular than the sorcerer. Ill prolly roll up one myself.

Please explain how warden has better sustain than a dk

Desert rose

I'd rather use Pirate Skeleton before I use a frost staff

Oh snap...

But you don't have to use a frost staff with desert rose?

Oompuh · April 2017

Waffennacht wrote: »

Oompuh wrote: »

WalksonGraves wrote: »

Oompuh wrote: »

Rungar wrote: »

warden will easily be the best tank. The frost line dmg scales off of health.

-every major buff
-best resource return
-minor protection
-strong hots
-extra dps from pet
- aoe debuff

so before long youll be seeing lots of heavily armored imperial and nord wardens rolling with 60-70k health, strong dps, low stam and magicks (15-18K) but strong regen, and if one of these beasts ever gets below 50% health, wham healing explodes with major mending.

I'm surprised they didn't get an aoe taunt.

I imagine warden will be more popular than the sorcerer. Ill prolly roll up one myself.

Please explain how warden has better sustain than a dk

Desert rose

I'd rather use Pirate Skeleton before I use a frost staff

Oh snap...

But you don't have to use a frost staff with desert rose?

Well desert rose gives magicka back while blocking so using a frost staff would take advantage of that. I assumed I guess

Blake6332 · April 2017

Keep this discussion going. Curious as to how people feel about the next greatest tank besides Warden so I can level it before Morrowind hits.

I guess Templar will be awful on fights without adds and best on fights with adds? For resource return anyways.

Rungar · April 2017

warden tanking will be about switching back and forth between sub 20k magic and stam pools, while having a gigantic health pool.

you'll always be regenerating something. Netch is also free.

you might want to look in at your "new" helping hands and "new " battle roar. If your pools are over 20k they have been reduced.

Oompuh · April 2017

Rungar wrote: »

warden tanking will be about switching back and forth between sub 20k magic and stam pools, while having a gigantic health pool.

you'll always be regenerating something. Netch is also free.

you might want to look in at your "new" helping hands and "new " battle roar. If your pools are over 20k they have been reduced.

I did look it up.
Helping hands has been reduced to 990 stam per cast. Battle roar got reduced if your resources are above 26k. I have 25k Stam and 18k magic it's a buff for me.

Doesn't look free to me

Rungar · April 2017

says free on the main site description,

subject to change I imagine.

well have to wait and see I guess.

RavenSworn · April 2017

The net has will be a free cast. The amount has been reduced but the net has is free currently. It's not official but it was stated during the last eso live.

Gaggin · April 2017

Drdeath20 wrote: »

Templar tanks werent top before. How are we any better now?

Stamina returns for tanks in general will be nerfed. Right now anyone can get stam from repent, after patch only Templar tanks will get stam from repent. As it currently is Templars are on par with dks as tanks, just no chains.

Betsararie · April 2017

Pallio wrote: »

Play whatever you want, slap a shield on it and bang you are a tank, most importantly just have fun.

This isn't how it actually works

Luigi_Vampa · April 2017

Oompuh wrote: »

Rungar wrote: »

warden tanking will be about switching back and forth between sub 20k magic and stam pools, while having a gigantic health pool.

you'll always be regenerating something. Netch is also free.

you might want to look in at your "new" helping hands and "new " battle roar. If your pools are over 20k they have been reduced.

I did look it up.
Helping hands has been reduced to 990 stam per cast. Battle roar got reduced if your resources are above 26k. I have 25k Stam and 18k magic it's a buff for me.

Doesn't look free to me

ESO live made it very clear that the netch is a free cast. You should try finding updated sources.

Rungar · April 2017

ill still play my dk tank but ill play it differently.

-cinder storm
-stone giant
-fossilize

warden has no cc. They might be better tanks but not crowd controllers.

Oompuh · April 2017

Gaggin wrote: »

Drdeath20 wrote: »

Templar tanks werent top before. How are we any better now?

Stamina returns for tanks in general will be nerfed. Right now anyone can get stam from repent, after patch only Templar tanks will get stam from repent. As it currently is Templars are on par with dks as tanks, just no chains.

If you ran a good dk tank build (Knight of Alkosh, Woeler).. Battle Roar gets BUFFED and you only lose 300 stam a cast from helping hands .. that's hardly equal to a templar

actosh · April 2017

souravami wrote: »

But what will a templar tank do against a single target boss fight? There is nothing to repent. How will you get back your stamina? On the other hand you can not help your team much with templar tank.
Repentance? Only restores stam for you and not other teammates now(does restore a little heath though).
BOL? will only heal in a 180 degree cone infront of you. As a tank you are facing the boss and teammates are behind you, cannot heal them with bol anymore.
I do believe stam dk is no longer high above all other classes for tanking, but templar isn't in a better place either. Wardens on the other hand have access to minor endurance, minor protection, major resolve/ward,evasion all those buffs as part of their skillset. They can also provide major resolve/ward to the whole team with press of one button. So imo having one warden tank will be mandatory in the coming patch.

Gaggin refers to the change for the lumiwhatever shards.
If an ally uses the provided synergy u(the tank that provided the synergie) get almost 4k stam or mag, whatever is lower returned.
In a coordinated group this can be fun.