The problem seems to be too much is changing all at once, all in the same direction.

Far better to tweak the top 5 "problem skills" on each Class by a few percent, and see how that beds in then rinse repeat that process until something approaching balance is attained.

Wholesale changes to everything do not give useful data to judge their impact from because everyone changes how they play entirely, leading to new "problem builds" emerging in a few months time and so we have to go through this whole mess again.

Changing skills is like eating a healthy diet - little and often is better than gorging on everything all at once.

All The Best

Mojmir wrote: »

Due to NDA i can't say much,but it's bad. Too much all at once,updates to far apart is most likely the reason. They could have done differently instead a pulling the rug. They could also be more involved,but hey it's how they do things.

Thank you for your insight.

I really don't mean to add to the negativity btw people... I love this game... hate the RNG but overall this game has provided so much entertainment for years.

I am personally fearful that if we say/do nothing and these changes go through... will the game recover?

For me probably not... when I moved on from WOW and FF14 I never even thought of going back... I loved those games at some point also.

I don't want anyone to leave the game... more players is better for the game. But if this sticks, then so many loyal players will look for enjoyment else where.

Then the game is left with those that come and go like the wind.

Tasear wrote: »

Bladorthin wrote: »

ZOS is in shellshock ATM, and trying to come up with unified responses. We will hear from them sooner or later, although I hope it is sooner...

There's a response already just scroll down and look for the Z and click the Z.

Not seen... might be as I am on mobile sight.

Tasear wrote: »

Bladorthin wrote: »

ZOS is in shellshock ATM, and trying to come up with unified responses. We will hear from them sooner or later, although I hope it is sooner...

There's a response already just scroll down and look for the Z and click the Z.

i don't see it either ...

The PTS NDA was just relaxed for the discussion of build performance:

This means you’ll be allowed to talk publicly outside of this forum area about the changes for the four existing classes and how they affect your character on the PTS in different scenarios, including how your characters perform in the new Battlegrounds and Trial.

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/337361/partial-lift-of-nda-for-update-14

riberion wrote: »

Here is the link to Gina's response to some of the changes.

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/comment/4016057#Comment_4016057

thank you

dwemer_paleologist wrote: »

TheStealthDude wrote: »

Most people haven't even taken the time to jump into the PTS before spouting off on the forums here or elsewhere.

right now it is private and by invite only.
from years of experience people already know that these patch notes are not going to change.
in addition to that we have enough experience to know without having to play that the changes are going to make pvp almost unplayable.
our requests are ignored for changes they made.
the devs put their nose in the air and claim "we have done no wrong, the changes will remain."

Umm only morrowind is private, PTS to test regen nerfs you're welcome too it.

smacx250 wrote: »

The PTS NDA was just relaxed for the discussion of build performance:

This means you’ll be allowed to talk publicly outside of this forum area about the changes for the four existing classes and how they affect your character on the PTS in different scenarios, including how your characters perform in the new Battlegrounds and Trial.

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/337361/partial-lift-of-nda-for-update-14

Good to know! I've tested my builds and can say I've gone from struggling to get 23-25k DPS on my magplar (live) to getting 18-20 at best. I'm in the group of folks who were just reaching that vMA grind level (been subbed since day 1). This update as-is hit me like a brick wall. All the tedious grinds are now just more boring and even longer. That's it.

redspecter23 wrote: »

riberion wrote: »

It's still very early in the PTS cycle. It's likely we will see some changes and hopefully more communication from ZOS. I definitely feel like we are having a bit more transparency this time around, and I think everyone appreciates that.

However, I did test my main (Mag Temp) on the PTS, and didn't notice and appreciable difference in overall performance. I was able to run thru Seeker's Archive solo (not that it's particularly hard content), with no changes to my current set up, and didn't have any trouble with my regen. I think the changes sound more drastic in the patch notes than they really are. At least in regards to the sustain nerfs.

You can run through Seeker's Archive (including the area on the world map and below) without firing off a single shot at anything. I'd imagine my sustain would be fine there as well.

Any sustain issues are not really visible in overland content or even normal dungeons. When you can sustain for 40 seconds at a time, any fight less than 40 seconds won't show any difference compared to live. When fights are 3 minutes+ (vet dungeon bosses) or 9 minutes+ (vet trials bosses) then you'll start to notice a difference.

That's hardly what I meant. Obviously, I did not stealth my way thru it, but thank you for trivializing my response.

I went to Seeker's because there are several bosses that are good to test this on. Also, many people are familiar with the difficulty, so was hoping to provide a scope for others here.

I did the upper area (all three needed to open the door), the mini boss about halfway thru the dungeon, and the final boss. No problems. I also stated that this is definitely not the hardest content in the game. I'm aware of that. But I ran it with my normal speed, not waiting for full regen before pulling the next mob. I understand it will be different in vet dungeons and trials. I will be testing this as well, but I have a day job too.

@ZOS_GinaBruno in her statement justifying changes even admits Warden is given an advantage by stating DK's, Templars and Resto healers have to perform an action to get major mending when Wardens just have to heal a target that is low health and needs extra healing, no skill involved by the Warden performing an action. Awesome that it is an official statement from ZOS.

riberion wrote: »

Zvorgin wrote: »

@ZOS_GinaBruno in her statement justifying changes even admits Warden is given an advantage by stating DK's, Templars and Resto healers have to perform an action to get major mending when Wardens just have to heal a target that is low health and needs extra healing, no skill involved by the Warden performing an action. Awesome that it is an official statement from ZOS.

She also states:

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

It’s also worth noting that we’re planning on adjusting the Warden passive, Accelerated Growth, because it’s currently too easy to keep it active for long periods of time.

People keep overlooking the fact that they are already planning on changing this passive.

Which means it is still a passive and not an active skill requiring player skill.

Zvorgin wrote: »

riberion wrote: »

Zvorgin wrote: »

@ZOS_GinaBruno in her statement justifying changes even admits Warden is given an advantage by stating DK's, Templars and Resto healers have to perform an action to get major mending when Wardens just have to heal a target that is low health and needs extra healing, no skill involved by the Warden performing an action. Awesome that it is an official statement from ZOS.

She also states:

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

It’s also worth noting that we’re planning on adjusting the Warden passive, Accelerated Growth, because it’s currently too easy to keep it active for long periods of time.

People keep overlooking the fact that they are already planning on changing this passive.

Which means it is still a passive and not an active skill requiring player skill.

At least they are recognizing the issue and adjusting. Better than just ignoring the problem until a later patch.

Zvorgin wrote: »

riberion wrote: »

Zvorgin wrote: »

riberion wrote: »

Zvorgin wrote: »

@ZOS_GinaBruno in her statement justifying changes even admits Warden is given an advantage by stating DK's, Templars and Resto healers have to perform an action to get major mending when Wardens just have to heal a target that is low health and needs extra healing, no skill involved by the Warden performing an action. Awesome that it is an official statement from ZOS.

She also states:

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

It’s also worth noting that we’re planning on adjusting the Warden passive, Accelerated Growth, because it’s currently too easy to keep it active for long periods of time.

People keep overlooking the fact that they are already planning on changing this passive.

Which means it is still a passive and not an active skill requiring player skill.

At least they are recognizing the issue and adjusting. Better than just ignoring the problem until a later patch.

Only because the outrage and that players realize Warden is being give passive buffs when other classes are being stripped of them.

Isn't that the whole point of testing? To get feedback?

i think alot of streamers are leaving and are frustrated because they've just had that meet- where all the top known contributors and players went to ZOS- where they obviously gave feed bak and ideas- and now they've gone in a different idea. its like working in a factory where nobody hears your ideas- if they had listened to the feedback of players - players then feel involved and connected to the game- moreso - they feel invested. A Deltia, Sypher, etc- that had been listened to - never would have left the game- and never like this. these are the people that help sell the game- and when theyre saying- it sucks- thats bad news.

what they've done here? doing something nobody suggested, nobody asked for , going off on their own- is a maverick auteur , prima donna move that will kill their game unless they change approach quickly. your only as good as your last update int eh MMO world. new games come out every 3 days. they had better shift their approach quickly.