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This is all getting out of hand
HoolDog
✭✭✭
90% of the posts on these forums, Facebook and even twitter on ESO announcements are very negative.
last time this happened in such a big way @ZOS_RichLambert done a pretty good job of relieving a lot of the negativity and fears.
This time it seems worse, players are leaving... Deltia even manages to make money from this game but is so annoyed with direction he is happy to walk away.
Some of the changes don't seem that bad like the the new CP layout looks interesting... but combined with nerfing armour and skill resource regen is insane... it's to much.
Why touch the class skills like battle roar... I already thought my heavy armour MDK would be unplayable with the CP for cost reduction going. So with all the rest I couldn't possibly imagine it working.
The changes would be great for me in theory as a predominant PVP endorser... my original character is a magic sorc which I stopped playing a while back with the rise of shuffle problems. I imagine with these changes my sorc will be very fun once again.
But I don't want to find success in other people's struggle.
My biggest problem with morrowind though is the lack of help/adjustment to the RNG system. I personally can't stand PVE... I personally find it boring. Yet I have to spend so much time in it repeating the content over and over. Yet I am reworded with my VMA sword and board and my prosperous Amberplasm. I did 50 runs of VMA over the last week to try and beat the RNG but all I ended up was burned out and fed up.
I am not sure we're things go from here as ZOS does not seem to have a great record in listening to feedback.
I am surprised that the team has not made more effort to again ease the fears of the players... zero communication while every day the forum and topics fill up with more negatively and panic.
I for one have just cancelled my ESO plus and my Morrowind pre order. I can't keep supporting a game that instead of making new content or difficulties for current content they nerf my characters abilities. I can't keep supporting a game that is happy for me to sit farming dungeons and trials for hundreds of runs with no end in sight.
Hopefully the PTS period will provide feedback to change some of this stuff for the better. The sooner something happens or is said by the devs the quicker then we can either move on away from the game or get back to playing the game we love.
last time this happened in such a big way @ZOS_RichLambert done a pretty good job of relieving a lot of the negativity and fears.
This time it seems worse, players are leaving... Deltia even manages to make money from this game but is so annoyed with direction he is happy to walk away.
Some of the changes don't seem that bad like the the new CP layout looks interesting... but combined with nerfing armour and skill resource regen is insane... it's to much.
Why touch the class skills like battle roar... I already thought my heavy armour MDK would be unplayable with the CP for cost reduction going. So with all the rest I couldn't possibly imagine it working.
The changes would be great for me in theory as a predominant PVP endorser... my original character is a magic sorc which I stopped playing a while back with the rise of shuffle problems. I imagine with these changes my sorc will be very fun once again.
But I don't want to find success in other people's struggle.
My biggest problem with morrowind though is the lack of help/adjustment to the RNG system. I personally can't stand PVE... I personally find it boring. Yet I have to spend so much time in it repeating the content over and over. Yet I am reworded with my VMA sword and board and my prosperous Amberplasm. I did 50 runs of VMA over the last week to try and beat the RNG but all I ended up was burned out and fed up.
I am not sure we're things go from here as ZOS does not seem to have a great record in listening to feedback.
I am surprised that the team has not made more effort to again ease the fears of the players... zero communication while every day the forum and topics fill up with more negatively and panic.
I for one have just cancelled my ESO plus and my Morrowind pre order. I can't keep supporting a game that instead of making new content or difficulties for current content they nerf my characters abilities. I can't keep supporting a game that is happy for me to sit farming dungeons and trials for hundreds of runs with no end in sight.
Hopefully the PTS period will provide feedback to change some of this stuff for the better. The sooner something happens or is said by the devs the quicker then we can either move on away from the game or get back to playing the game we love.
18
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TheStealthDude✭✭✭✭The problem is that most of the people are complaining SOLELY off of what they have read in the patch notes. Most people haven't even taken the time to jump into the PTS before spouting off on the forums here or elsewhere. And really, the PTS hasn't even been open long enough for people to make definitive statements about the overall effects of the tentative changes.
So I say to all those who are quick to complain: jump into the PTS and actually do something there to help fix the game. Whining here means nothing, whereas observable data means everything to ZOS.7 -
Gilvoth✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭TheStealthDude wrote: »Most people haven't even taken the time to jump into the PTS before spouting off on the forums here or elsewhere.
from years of experience people already know that these patch notes are not going to change.
in addition to that we have enough experience to know without having to play that the changes are going to make pvp almost unplayable.
our requests are ignored for changes they made.
the devs put their nose in the air and claim "we have done no wrong, the changes will remain."
Edited by Gilvoth on April 20, 2017 7:42PM8 -
Tholian1✭✭✭✭✭
✭I have a feeling that the next ESO Live will need to address the morale problem the patch notes created. If these changes are going to be so great for a majority of the player base, then they need to do a better job explaining how and why these changes will make the game more fun and enjoyable. Because we are playing for fun and enjoyment, right?Edited by Tholian1 on April 20, 2017 6:37PMPS4 Pro NA9 -
WhiteMage✭✭✭✭✭
✭The crazy thing is this is just the first round of patches on a PTS cycle that looks to be 50% longer than normal, yet people are still blowing a gasket. The point of this first one is to overcorrect the problems so you know what too far in either direction looks like so you'll know when you've hit the sweet spot. If you're going to consider ZOS' track record, you'd give them at least until the third patch before assuming nothing substantial would change. So many crazy reaction on just the first week, smh. Save the pitchforks and torches for mid May.The generally amicable yet sporadically salty magplar that may or may not have 1vXed you in Sotha Sil. Who knows?2 -
idk✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Zos has a stellar record of listening to feedback during the pts and otherwise. They've made adjustments with almost every update though they're obviously not going to change something merely because it's brought up. Plenty of bad suggestions.6 -
TheStealthDude✭✭✭✭dwemer_paleologist wrote: »TheStealthDude wrote: »The problem is that most of the people are complaining SOLELY off of what they have read in the patch notes. Most people haven't even taken the time to jump into the PTS before spouting off on the forums here or elsewhere.
right now it is private and by invite only.
Which just goes on to prove my point. Most of the people upset on the forums are getting upset at words on a page. They haven't had any experience testing the actual changes yet.4 -
Bladorthin✭✭✭ZOS is in shellshock ATM, and trying to come up with unified responses. We will hear from them sooner or later, although I hope it is sooner...1 -
Gilvoth✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭TheStealthDude wrote: »dwemer_paleologist wrote: »TheStealthDude wrote: »The problem is that most of the people are complaining SOLELY off of what they have read in the patch notes. Most people haven't even taken the time to jump into the PTS before spouting off on the forums here or elsewhere.
right now it is private and by invite only.
Which just goes on to prove my point. Most of the people upset on the forums are getting upset at words on a page. They haven't had any experience testing the actual changes yet.
from years of experience people already know that these patch notes are not going to change.
in addition to that we have enough experience to know without having to play that the changes are going to make pvp almost unplayable.
our requests are ignored for changes they made.
the devs put their nose in the air and claim "we have done no wrong, the changes will remain."7 -
smacx250✭✭✭✭✭
Just to be clear, PTS is open as normal - just need to agree to the NDA when logging on. In order to get to any of the Morrowind stuff you need the invite.dwemer_paleologist wrote: »
right now it is private and by invite only.TheStealthDude wrote: »Most people haven't even taken the time to jump into the PTS before spouting off on the forums here or elsewhere.
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HoolDog✭✭✭That's because most people have played with builds enough to know what they can and can't get away with resource to damage to sustain to resistance. The skills that help with all these factors.
people can work out from these notes that everything will be very different.
But yeah hopefully the PTS is not as bad as it seems... but from what people have posted from experience doesn't seem to be much positivity in that.
Either way the RNG look over is the biggest problem in my eyes. They could have simply took the trash traits away and accomplished so much.3 -
skyhawk002✭✭✭TheStealthDude wrote: »The problem is that most of the people are complaining SOLELY off of what they have read in the patch notes. Most people haven't even taken the time to jump into the PTS before spouting off on the forums here or elsewhere. And really, the PTS hasn't even been open long enough for people to make definitive statements about the overall effects of the tentative changes."
You know no one who plays on the closed or open PTS can confirm that they are testing. So your 1st point doesn't stand.
Also, 72 hours of playtime is sufficient to make definitive statements about changes for those who have been playing for a while. However, yeah it's really hard for people to test outcome x (let's say healing in PvP as a magplar) when multiple factors have been changed at once. That's ZOS's problem still though, multiple major changes every 6 months rather than incremental changes every 2 weeks.Edited by skyhawk002 on April 20, 2017 6:47PM4 -
Zvorgin✭✭✭✭✭My biggest issue with the patch notes is the "It's a buff unless..." language. Zos come across like a bunch of two face lying politicians and that doesn't inspire confidence.Edited by Zvorgin on April 20, 2017 6:46PM13
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TheStealthDude✭✭✭✭dwemer_paleologist wrote: »TheStealthDude wrote: »dwemer_paleologist wrote: »TheStealthDude wrote: »The problem is that most of the people are complaining SOLELY off of what they have read in the patch notes. Most people haven't even taken the time to jump into the PTS before spouting off on the forums here or elsewhere.
right now it is private and by invite only.
Which just goes on to prove my point. Most of the people upset on the forums are getting upset at words on a page. They haven't had any experience testing the actual changes yet.
from years of experience people already know that these patch notes are not going to change.
in addition to that we have enough experience to know without having to play that the changes are going to make pvp almost unplayable.
our requests are ignored for changes they made.
the devs put their nose in the air and claim "we have done no wrong, the changes will remain."
With all due respect, no you dont. You don't know how these changes as a whole are going to affect the game without testing it. That's why you (and everyone else) are sitting at home and not on a design/developer team like at ZOS. Not only that, but you don't even have access to the back end data that ZOS does.
So what you are claiming is that not only do you have more experience than the professional developmenyt team, but that you can make judgement calls without even needing to test changes, something ZOS (or really, any professional development team) themselves can't do (hence the public tests), and all without the data they have?
Ya. Sure.Edited by TheStealthDude on April 20, 2017 6:48PM3 -
Gilvoth✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭TheStealthDude wrote: »dwemer_paleologist wrote: »TheStealthDude wrote: »dwemer_paleologist wrote: »TheStealthDude wrote: »The problem is that most of the people are complaining SOLELY off of what they have read in the patch notes. Most people haven't even taken the time to jump into the PTS before spouting off on the forums here or elsewhere.
right now it is private and by invite only.
Which just goes on to prove my point. Most of the people upset on the forums are getting upset at words on a page. They haven't had any experience testing the actual changes yet.
from years of experience people already know that these patch notes are not going to change.
in addition to that we have enough experience to know without having to play that the changes are going to make pvp almost unplayable.
our requests are ignored for changes they made.
the devs put their nose in the air and claim "we have done no wrong, the changes will remain."
what you are claiming is that not only do you have more experience than the professional developmenyt team, but that you can make judgement calls without even needing to test changes, something ZOS (or really, any professional development team) themselves can't do (hence the public tests), and all without the data they have?
that is correct.
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Dark_Aether✭✭✭✭On the bright side, there is a chance they pull the same move they did with Sorcs and turn the nerf into a buff, like giving Templars both minor and major mending.1 -
TheStealthDude✭✭✭✭skyhawk002 wrote: »TheStealthDude wrote: »The problem is that most of the people are complaining SOLELY off of what they have read in the patch notes. Most people haven't even taken the time to jump into the PTS before spouting off on the forums here or elsewhere. And really, the PTS hasn't even been open long enough for people to make definitive statements about the overall effects of the tentative changes."
You know no one who plays on the closed or open PTS can confirm that they are testing. So your 1st point doesn't stand.
Also, 72 hours of playtime is sufficient to make definitive statements about changes for those who have been playing for a while. However, yeah it's really hard for people to test outcome x (let's say healing in PvP as a magplar) when multiple factors have been changed at once. That's ZOS's problem still though, multiple major changes every 6 months rather than incremental changes every 2 weeks.
Of course, I know no one who has been testing. Wink, wink.
And no, I don't believe 72 hours is enough time to definitively say that these massive, global changes make a game unplayable. There is absolutely no way anyone has run through all the content with even a majority of the combinations of gear, class makeups, builds and everything else in 72 hours. Maybe it's changed for how you used to play? OK. I can absolutely accept that. That doesn't mean that something else doesn't work. And that certainly doesn't give anyone the knowledge that the entire game is now broke.0 -
Gilvoth✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Dark_Aether wrote: »On the bright side, there is a chance they pull the same move they did with Sorcs and turn the nerf into a buff, like giving Templars both minor and major mending.
now that does and as happened, and the devs have done well at times in that respect, but its not often.
i have seen times that they did things because people complained alot.
and i have also seen where they did things based on just a few complaints, and sometimes no complaint nor comment was even made that we knew of.
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HoolDog✭✭✭They could have approached this so much better...
Combat the RNG
Rain in the permablockers in pvp
Buff medium/light armour or Rain in heavy armour in pvp
Leave pve alone
Provide CP and non CP battlegrounds
Introduce your new content to players
But instead we all seem to be in turmoil, with a mass of negativity surrounding the biggest new release ESO has seen.6 -
Gilvoth✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭They could have approached this so much better...
Combat the RNG
Rain in the permablockers in pvp
Buff medium/light armour or Rain in heavy armour in pvp
Leave pve alone
Provide CP and non CP battlegrounds
Introduce your new content to players
But instead we all seem to be in turmoil, with a mass of negativity surrounding the biggest new release ESO has seen.
exactly, and to make things much worse is that this is the anniversary of morrowind, and for me and many many many people this is something that has very deeeep roots with us elderscrolls fans.
so this cuts more than bone deep for us.1 -
Walties99✭✭✭Not saying anyone has violated the non disclosure agreement, but I heard sustain is really bad, Templar healers are no longer PVE meta because major mending is gone and they have much weaker passive than Warden, etc. Realistically though, ZoS is a business and they only care about the people playing their games as much as it impacts their profits. They will still get new subs and thousands of Morrowind sales regardless of how many dedicated subscribers cancel because of their nerfs and changes that really affect the game. I'm sad to say that I started a Templar healer day 1 Xbox NA, got the first server clear of VMOL HM, and will probably not be buying morrowind after what I'm hearing about the PTS. Over 130 days worth of time to go to waste. Do the developers care? Probably not. It won't come out of their pockets if the game continues to gain subscribers or get sales.5
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apostate9✭✭✭✭✭My biggest issue with the patch notes is the "It's a buff unless..." language. Zos come across like a bunch of two face lying politicians and that doesn't inspire confidence.
Dude. It isn't politics. It's....math. It IS a buff unless you stack X resources, then you were better off in the old system. It is a soft, soft, soft cap. It's perfectly easy to predict and build around if you can do basic math.
Calm down.
4 -
technohic✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭The PTS is wide open to anyone as far as the base game patch. I don't think the NDA applies to stuff they have in that respect.
And trying it just looking at my characters, it isn't so bad. What is bad is the way in which it is unevenly heavy handed just for 3/5 of the classes.
Balance is something to be adjusted to. Favoritism is something to be offended by.7 -
STEVIL✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭90% of the posts on these forums, Facebook and even twitter on ESO announcements are very negative.
last time this happened in such a big way @ZOS_RichLambert done a pretty good job of relieving a lot of the negativity and fears.
This time it seems worse, players are leaving... Deltia even manages to make money from this game but is so annoyed with direction he is happy to walk away.
Some of the changes don't seem that bad like the the new CP layout looks interesting... but combined with nerfing armour and skill resource regen is insane... it's to much.
Why touch the class skills like battle roar... I already thought my heavy armour MDK would be unplayable with the CP for cost reduction going. So with all the rest I couldn't possibly imagine it working.
The changes would be great for me in theory as a predominant PVP endorser... my original character is a magic sorc which I stopped playing a while back with the rise of shuffle problems. I imagine with these changes my sorc will be very fun once again.
But I don't want to find success in other people's struggle.
My biggest problem with morrowind though is the lack of help/adjustment to the RNG system. I personally can't stand PVE... I personally find it boring. Yet I have to spend so much time in it repeating the content over and over. Yet I am reworded with my VMA sword and board and my prosperous Amberplasm. I did 50 runs of VMA over the last week to try and beat the RNG but all I ended up was burned out and fed up.
I am not sure we're things go from here as ZOS does not seem to have a great record in listening to feedback.
I am surprised that the team has not made more effort to again ease the fears of the players... zero communication while every day the forum and topics fill up with more negatively and panic.
I for one have just cancelled my ESO plus and my Morrowind pre order. I can't keep supporting a game that instead of making new content or difficulties for current content they nerf my characters abilities. I can't keep supporting a game that is happy for me to sit farming dungeons and trials for hundreds of runs with no end in sight.
Hopefully the PTS period will provide feedback to change some of this stuff for the better. The sooner something happens or is said by the devs the quicker then we can either move on away from the game or get back to playing the game we love.
just to be clear...are you saying Deltia HAS walked away and is happy about it or that Deltia is happy to rant about walking away and thus generating more clicks and buzz for his media bu$ne$$
The latter i can see... the former i dont believe i have seen happen yet.
Proudly skooma free while talks-when-drunk is in mandatory public housing.
YFMV Your Fun May Vary.
First Law of Nerf-o-Dynamics
"The good way I used to get good kills *with good skill* was good but the way others kill me now is bad."2 -
redspecter23✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭They could have approached this so much better...
Combat the RNG
Rain in the permablockers in pvp
Buff medium/light armour or Rain in heavy armour in pvp
Leave pve alone
Provide CP and non CP battlegrounds
Introduce your new content to players
But instead we all seem to be in turmoil, with a mass of negativity surrounding the biggest new release ESO has seen.
ZOS, put this guy in charge. He gets it. If that right there was the complete content of your patch notes, you wouldn't have the same kind of negative feelings you have right now.3 -
DHale✭✭✭✭✭
✭Actually, many of us have been on the PTS and it's even worse than we thought. So the sky is not falling... but my enthusiasm definitely is.Sorcerna, proud beta sorc. RIP April 2014 to May 31 2016 DArk Brotherhood. Out of retirement for negates and encases. Sorcerna will be going back into retirement to be my main crafter Fall 2018. Because an 8 k shield is f ing useless. Died because of baddies on the forum. Too much qq too little pew pew. 16 AD 2 DC. 0 EP cause they bad, CP 2300 plus 18 level 50 toons. NA, PC, Grey Host#SORCLIVESMATTER actually they don’t or they wouldn’t keep getting nerfed constantly.10 -
Gilvoth✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭90% of the posts on these forums, Facebook and even twitter on ESO announcements are very negative.
last time this happened in such a big way @ZOS_RichLambert done a pretty good job of relieving a lot of the negativity and fears.
This time it seems worse, players are leaving... Deltia even manages to make money from this game but is so annoyed with direction he is happy to walk away.
Some of the changes don't seem that bad like the the new CP layout looks interesting... but combined with nerfing armour and skill resource regen is insane... it's to much.
Why touch the class skills like battle roar... I already thought my heavy armour MDK would be unplayable with the CP for cost reduction going. So with all the rest I couldn't possibly imagine it working.
The changes would be great for me in theory as a predominant PVP endorser... my original character is a magic sorc which I stopped playing a while back with the rise of shuffle problems. I imagine with these changes my sorc will be very fun once again.
But I don't want to find success in other people's struggle.
My biggest problem with morrowind though is the lack of help/adjustment to the RNG system. I personally can't stand PVE... I personally find it boring. Yet I have to spend so much time in it repeating the content over and over. Yet I am reworded with my VMA sword and board and my prosperous Amberplasm. I did 50 runs of VMA over the last week to try and beat the RNG but all I ended up was burned out and fed up.
I am not sure we're things go from here as ZOS does not seem to have a great record in listening to feedback.
I am surprised that the team has not made more effort to again ease the fears of the players... zero communication while every day the forum and topics fill up with more negatively and panic.
I for one have just cancelled my ESO plus and my Morrowind pre order. I can't keep supporting a game that instead of making new content or difficulties for current content they nerf my characters abilities. I can't keep supporting a game that is happy for me to sit farming dungeons and trials for hundreds of runs with no end in sight.
Hopefully the PTS period will provide feedback to change some of this stuff for the better. The sooner something happens or is said by the devs the quicker then we can either move on away from the game or get back to playing the game we love.
just to be clear...are you saying Deltia HAS walked away and is happy about it or that Deltia is happy to rant about walking away and thus generating more clicks and buzz for his media bu$ne$$
The latter i can see... the former i dont believe i have seen happen yet.
from the video i just watched, to me, reading his body language and wording ...
it looked as if he was not happy to be leaving, it also seemed slightly like he was wanting to send a message that he wasnt totally sure of but he had decided it was time to go.
of-course i cant read his mind but to me it seemed genuine and honest for the most part.
did he also have $ in-mind for clicks on it ? yes / no and i don't know ...
he has to explain to his viewers why he dropped off but at same time i know another person who is very famous who has simply stopped playing and he has said nothing at all in video like deltia did.
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Gandrhulf_Harbard✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭dwemer_paleologist wrote: »TheStealthDude wrote: »Most people haven't even taken the time to jump into the PTS before spouting off on the forums here or elsewhere.
right now it is private and by invite only.
I thought that, but was told that the PTS itself is not Invite Only.
Apparently it is just Vvardenfell and Warden content that are invite only. Not sure how that is done TBH.
So you should be able to test out your current builds on the PTS no problem.
All The BestThose memories come back to haunt me, they haunt me like a curse.
Is a dream a lie if it don't come true, or is it something worse.0 -
Gilvoth✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Gandrhulf_Harbard wrote: »dwemer_paleologist wrote: »TheStealthDude wrote: »Most people haven't even taken the time to jump into the PTS before spouting off on the forums here or elsewhere.
right now it is private and by invite only.
I thought that, but was told that the PTS itself is not Invite Only.
Apparently it is just Vvardenfell and Warden content that are invite only. Not sure how that is done TBH.
So you should be able to test out your current builds on the PTS no problem.
All The Best
you are correct, i did not know that.0 -
Zvorgin✭✭✭✭✭My biggest issue with the patch notes is the "It's a buff unless..." language. Zos come across like a bunch of two face lying politicians and that doesn't inspire confidence.
Dude. It isn't politics. It's....math. It IS a buff unless you stack X resources, then you were better off in the old system. It is a soft, soft, soft cap. It's perfectly easy to predict and build around if you can do basic math.
Calm down.
It was analogy, I never said this was politics. Redguard passive is a great example, just say they are lowering the passive for balance, not that it is a buff for those with less than 15.8k stamina.
I'm quite calm, I just prefer the patch notes be straight talk and not try and mislead the player base by implying we can't understand what is and isn't a buff/nerf.
2