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Year 1 Sustain Issues were not fun. ZOS is taking us back to Year 1.
austinwalter87ub17_ESO
✭✭✭✭✭
When the game launched, sustain was a shadow of what it is now. Many people, including myself felt that the sustain right now is a bit over the top. We did not ask to return to year 1 methods of sustain. People joke around and call it Heavy Attack Online. It's a joke with some truth to it. That was not fun by comparison. You spent half your time kiting out of resources. You used heavy attacks more than abilities (or at least it felt like it).
The design ZOS envisioned regarding sustain is not what ESO needs.
This patch not only eliminates CP sustain, but Class Defining abilities to help each other and ourselves to sustain.
People were asking to have it toned down a bit. Simply putting the CP damage nodes in the same colored CP archetype as the sustain nodes would have resolved much of the problem. But that wasn't good enough. Instead of cutting the grass to maintain the yard, you took out your gas canister and a match to it.
Edited by austinwalter87ub17_ESO on April 19, 2017 8:31PM The design ZOS envisioned regarding sustain is not what ESO needs.
This patch not only eliminates CP sustain, but Class Defining abilities to help each other and ourselves to sustain.
People were asking to have it toned down a bit. Simply putting the CP damage nodes in the same colored CP archetype as the sustain nodes would have resolved much of the problem. But that wasn't good enough. Instead of cutting the grass to maintain the yard, you took out your gas canister and a match to it.
PC and PS4 (bring back character transfers please?)
Templar Extraordinaire
Templar Extraordinaire
29
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idk✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭I think this is the thousandth thread complaining about the same issue since the patch notes were released.
There are other threads available where you can join the conversation rather than start yet another thread on the subject.3 -
THEDKEXPERIENCE✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭I enjoy heavy attacking. Do you know why???
Because I enjoy having resources! Amazing, I know.6 -
austinwalter87ub17_ESO✭✭✭✭✭Giles.floydub17_ESO wrote: »I think this is the thousandth thread complaining about the same issue since the patch notes were released.
There are other threads available where you can join the conversation rather than start yet another thread on the subject.
I do not care about the other threads.PC and PS4 (bring back character transfers please?)
Templar Extraordinaire14 -
THEDKEXPERIENCE✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭Oh ... and you know what else you can't do while heavy attacking???
Animation cancel!4 -
xeNNNNN✭✭✭✭✭
✭Yep this.
It feels like they've taken a sledgehammer and hit a tiny nail when they could of used an ordinary hammer.
The dragonknight changes alone make no sense at all.
But the cost reduction too? urgh.
IT just needed to be minor tweaks across the board, these changes are anything but "minor" they're like a giant elephant in the room.
When I saw the changes to DK and the argonian passive in the racial passives, I actually laughed and it wasnt because it was funny. I laughed so hard to the point of nearly crying with laughter on teamspeak not because it was funny but because it was such a horrendous balances choice and change to the point where it makes absolutely no sense.
Shard changes, Orbs sharing shard synergy CD, Shards and repentances being effectively reworked not tweaked. I could go on. Oh and no changes to sorc? even more hilarious.Ah, e-communities - the "pinnacle" of the internet............yeah, right.5 -
ljb2k5_ESO✭✭✭THEDKEXPERIENCE wrote: »Oh ... and you know what else you can't do while heavy attacking???
Animation cancel!
So nerf animation canceling, not sustain?10 -
Doctordarkspawn✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Yep this.
It feels like they've taken a sledgehammer and hit a tiny nail when they could of used an ordinary hammer.
The dragonknight changes alone make no sense at all.
But the cost reduction too? urgh.
IT just needed to be minor tweaks across the board, these changes are anything but "minor" they're like a giant elephant in the room.
When I saw the changes to DK and the argonian passive in the racial passives, I actually laughed and it wasnt because it was funny. I laughed so hard to the point of nearly crying with laughter on teamspeak not because it was funny but because it was such a horrendous balances choice and change to the point where it makes absolutely no sense.
Shard changes, Orbs sharing shard synergy CD, Shards and repentances being effectively reworked not tweaked. I could go on. Oh and no changes to sorc? even more hilarious.
They could have just hammered in the nail.
Instead, they nuked it.6 -
THEDKEXPERIENCE✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭ljb2k5_ESO wrote: »THEDKEXPERIENCE wrote: »Oh ... and you know what else you can't do while heavy attacking???
Animation cancel!
So nerf animation canceling, not sustain?
Ever thought that they nerfed animation cancelling by nerfing sustain? It's actually genius. I mean it's still in the game so people can't complain about ZOS removing it entirely but if you want to do it you'll have less stamina than a Filterless Marlboro chain smoker.
I'm not even joking anymore. Holy crap. This really is what they did.2 -
Doctordarkspawn✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭THEDKEXPERIENCE wrote: »ljb2k5_ESO wrote: »THEDKEXPERIENCE wrote: »Oh ... and you know what else you can't do while heavy attacking???
Animation cancel!
So nerf animation canceling, not sustain?
Ever thought that they nerfed animation cancelling by nerfing sustain? It's actually genius. I mean it's still in the game so people can't complain about ZOS removing it entirely but if you want to do it you'll have less stamina than a Filterless Marlboro chain smoker.
I'm not even joking anymore. Holy crap. This really is what they did.
And it was stupid even before you came to this conclusion, and it's even stupider now.6 -
Peekachu99✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Year one was fine--and the 'golden era' according to some. VR grind was the real and only killer at launch: universally loathed.
P.S. We have like a billion more tools, sets and tricks for resource management than in year one, too.Edited by Peekachu99 on April 19, 2017 8:45PM0 -
THEDKEXPERIENCE✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭Doctordarkspawn wrote: »THEDKEXPERIENCE wrote: »ljb2k5_ESO wrote: »THEDKEXPERIENCE wrote: »Oh ... and you know what else you can't do while heavy attacking???
Animation cancel!
So nerf animation canceling, not sustain?
Ever thought that they nerfed animation cancelling by nerfing sustain? It's actually genius. I mean it's still in the game so people can't complain about ZOS removing it entirely but if you want to do it you'll have less stamina than a Filterless Marlboro chain smoker.
I'm not even joking anymore. Holy crap. This really is what they did.
And it was stupid even before you came to this conclusion, and it's even stupider now.
I agree, animation canceling is stupid.1 -
rteezy✭✭✭THEDKEXPERIENCE wrote: »Doctordarkspawn wrote: »THEDKEXPERIENCE wrote: »ljb2k5_ESO wrote: »THEDKEXPERIENCE wrote: »Oh ... and you know what else you can't do while heavy attacking???
Animation cancel!
So nerf animation canceling, not sustain?
Ever thought that they nerfed animation cancelling by nerfing sustain? It's actually genius. I mean it's still in the game so people can't complain about ZOS removing it entirely but if you want to do it you'll have less stamina than a Filterless Marlboro chain smoker.
I'm not even joking anymore. Holy crap. This really is what they did.
And it was stupid even before you came to this conclusion, and it's even stupider now.
I agree, animation canceling is stupid.
Enlighten us on how Animation cancel is bad (and the skillcap it brings withj it) and how mindlessly spamming heavy attacks is ANY good for pvp?
I take it you are that kind of "pvpr" that enjoys a very simple "skilless" playstyle dominated by RNG crits...0 -
Draxys✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Year 1 of pc or console launch? Because if you're talking about pc launch, you're incredibly mistaken.2013
rip decibel0 -
Brutusmax1mus✭✭✭✭✭
✭Doctordarkspawn wrote: »Yep this.
It feels like they've taken a sledgehammer and hit a tiny nail when they could of used an ordinary hammer.
The dragonknight changes alone make no sense at all.
But the cost reduction too? urgh.
IT just needed to be minor tweaks across the board, these changes are anything but "minor" they're like a giant elephant in the room.
When I saw the changes to DK and the argonian passive in the racial passives, I actually laughed and it wasnt because it was funny. I laughed so hard to the point of nearly crying with laughter on teamspeak not because it was funny but because it was such a horrendous balances choice and change to the point where it makes absolutely no sense.
Shard changes, Orbs sharing shard synergy CD, Shards and repentances being effectively reworked not tweaked. I could go on. Oh and no changes to sorc? even more hilarious.
They could have just hammered in the nail.
Instead, they nuked it.
What they did was remove all the nails with the hammer so the game falls apart3 -
drallar✭✭✭Year 1 of pc or console launch? Because if you're talking about pc launch, you're incredibly mistaken.
During year one of PC launch, Magicka sustain of Templars was horrendous. They eventually added a magicka regen to the Holy Circle (forgetting name) plus changed a few other things. Before that it was terrible like the OP mentioned.
3 -
THEDKEXPERIENCE✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭THEDKEXPERIENCE wrote: »Doctordarkspawn wrote: »THEDKEXPERIENCE wrote: »ljb2k5_ESO wrote: »THEDKEXPERIENCE wrote: »Oh ... and you know what else you can't do while heavy attacking???
Animation cancel!
So nerf animation canceling, not sustain?
Ever thought that they nerfed animation cancelling by nerfing sustain? It's actually genius. I mean it's still in the game so people can't complain about ZOS removing it entirely but if you want to do it you'll have less stamina than a Filterless Marlboro chain smoker.
I'm not even joking anymore. Holy crap. This really is what they did.
And it was stupid even before you came to this conclusion, and it's even stupider now.
I agree, animation canceling is stupid.
Enlighten us on how Animation cancel is bad (and the skillcap it brings withj it) and how mindlessly spamming heavy attacks is ANY good for pvp?
I take it you are that kind of "pvpr" that enjoys a very simple "skilless" playstyle dominated by RNG crits...
Actually quite the opposite. I retired my proc set quite some time ago. And, yes, I totally know how to animation cancel and can do it quite easily. I even admit that it's one of the more skillful things that can be done.
Still ... 2 days ago I got animation cancel killed by 1 guy who landed 5 bow attacks at exactly the same time. It was quite impressive. Under most circumstances, like when I'm not running a ballista like I was, I can still defend against it. Most people have no shot.
By limiting the use of animation canceling it helps new players. And if you still want to do it, have at it, but you'll now have to make a trade off. Sounds like a win to me.
Also, you don't have to mindless spam them. How is being cognizant that my character performs better at range while standing in my Templar circle conserving resources for when I really need them mindless?3 -
rotaugen454✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Year one? Yes, bring back old Doshia!
Nothing like dying to something you should be able to step on!PelinalWhitestrake wrote: »
Yes! Yes! Yes!rotaugen454 wrote: »Year one? Yes, bring back old Doshia!
And OP Mudcrabs, don't forget about them.
"Get off my lawn!"1 -
Marabornwingrion✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭THEDKEXPERIENCE wrote: »Doctordarkspawn wrote: »THEDKEXPERIENCE wrote: »ljb2k5_ESO wrote: »THEDKEXPERIENCE wrote: »Oh ... and you know what else you can't do while heavy attacking???
Animation cancel!
So nerf animation canceling, not sustain?
Ever thought that they nerfed animation cancelling by nerfing sustain? It's actually genius. I mean it's still in the game so people can't complain about ZOS removing it entirely but if you want to do it you'll have less stamina than a Filterless Marlboro chain smoker.
I'm not even joking anymore. Holy crap. This really is what they did.
And it was stupid even before you came to this conclusion, and it's even stupider now.
I agree, animation canceling is stupid.
I still don't understand why people have problem with AC existence...?
1 -
Tasear✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭PelinalWhitestrake wrote: »
Yes! Yes! Yes!rotaugen454 wrote: »Year one? Yes, bring back old Doshia!
And OP Mudcrabs, don't forget about them.
Then it has gone to far....Murcrabs...Just say no.0 -
grim_tactics✭✭✭✭✭THEDKEXPERIENCE wrote: »Doctordarkspawn wrote: »THEDKEXPERIENCE wrote: »ljb2k5_ESO wrote: »THEDKEXPERIENCE wrote: »Oh ... and you know what else you can't do while heavy attacking???
Animation cancel!
So nerf animation canceling, not sustain?
Ever thought that they nerfed animation cancelling by nerfing sustain? It's actually genius. I mean it's still in the game so people can't complain about ZOS removing it entirely but if you want to do it you'll have less stamina than a Filterless Marlboro chain smoker.
I'm not even joking anymore. Holy crap. This really is what they did.
And it was stupid even before you came to this conclusion, and it's even stupider now.
I agree, animation canceling is stupid.
Enlighten us on how Animation cancel is bad (and the skillcap it brings withj it) and how mindlessly spamming heavy attacks is ANY good for pvp?
I take it you are that kind of "pvpr" that enjoys a very simple "skilless" playstyle dominated by RNG crits...
Um, maybe because it's not suppose to be in the game. What part of cheating to make something happen faster seems like a legit game element?0 -
Xylphan✭✭✭✭THEDKEXPERIENCE wrote: »Doctordarkspawn wrote: »THEDKEXPERIENCE wrote: »ljb2k5_ESO wrote: »THEDKEXPERIENCE wrote: »Oh ... and you know what else you can't do while heavy attacking???
Animation cancel!
So nerf animation canceling, not sustain?
Ever thought that they nerfed animation cancelling by nerfing sustain? It's actually genius. I mean it's still in the game so people can't complain about ZOS removing it entirely but if you want to do it you'll have less stamina than a Filterless Marlboro chain smoker.
I'm not even joking anymore. Holy crap. This really is what they did.
And it was stupid even before you came to this conclusion, and it's even stupider now.
I agree, animation canceling is stupid.
I still don't understand why people have problem with AC existence...?
It really is a stupid mechanic. That doesn't mean it takes no skill to use. It takes a lot of skill to do it well. But it's still a stupid mechanic. And it had absolutely no negative consequences since you had "infinistain" templars and such keeping your resources pegged.
The new changes mean you'll actually have to weave in heavy attacks.1 -
Yolokin_Swagonborn✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Actually sustain was fine at launch, most builds ran at least one sustain set. But we had softcaps so you didn't have to stack damage to the roof.
If they were bringing us back to year 1 I would be overjoyed. Repentance worked year 1. Battle Roar was amazing year one. So was igneous shield.
But that is NOT what they are doing. They are gutting beloved class skills just to keep the champion system and softcap removal process alive.
You think nerfing sustain is a good thing? Remove CP, put caps on regen. Done. Going back is a good thing. game was actually fun back then.
But they aren't going back, they are continuing to nerf things because of CP and no softcaps.4 -
Korah_Eaglecry✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭Yolokin_Swagonborn wrote: »Actually sustain was fine at launch, most builds ran at least one sustain set. But we had softcaps so you didn't have to stack damage to the roof.
If they were bringing us back to year 1 I would be overjoyed. Repentance worked year 1. Battle Roar was amazing year one. So was igneous shield.
But that is NOT what they are doing. They are gutting beloved class skills just to keep the champion system and softcap removal process alive.
You think nerfing sustain is a good thing? Remove CP, put caps on regen. Done. Going back is a good thing. game was actually fun back then.
But they aren't going back, they are continuing to nerf things because of CP and no softcaps.
The game was fun back then? Thats purely an opinion that is not shared by all. Id wager its an opinion that is far far far in the minority. It was SO unfun back then that the games sub numbers dropped, the game received across the board negative PR and it was uniformly shrugged off by gamers that typically leaned towards MMOs.Edited by Korah_Eaglecry on April 20, 2017 12:04AMPenniless Sellsword CompanyCaptain Paramount - Jorrhaq VhentKorith Eaglecry * Enrerion Aedihle * Laerinel Rhaev * Caius Berilius * Seylina Ithvala * H'Vak the GrimjawlTenarei Rhaev * Dazsh Ro Khar * Yynril Rothvani * Bathes-In-Coin * Anaelle Faerniil * Azjani Ma'LesAban Shahid Bakr * Kheshna gra-Gharbuk * Gallisten Bondurant * Etain Maquier * Atsu Kalame * Faulpia SeverinusWhat is better, to be born good, or to overcome your evil nature through great effort? - Paarthurnax2 -
THEDKEXPERIENCE✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭THEDKEXPERIENCE wrote: »Doctordarkspawn wrote: »THEDKEXPERIENCE wrote: »ljb2k5_ESO wrote: »THEDKEXPERIENCE wrote: »Oh ... and you know what else you can't do while heavy attacking???
Animation cancel!
So nerf animation canceling, not sustain?
Ever thought that they nerfed animation cancelling by nerfing sustain? It's actually genius. I mean it's still in the game so people can't complain about ZOS removing it entirely but if you want to do it you'll have less stamina than a Filterless Marlboro chain smoker.
I'm not even joking anymore. Holy crap. This really is what they did.
And it was stupid even before you came to this conclusion, and it's even stupider now.
I agree, animation canceling is stupid.
I still don't understand why people have problem with AC existence...?
It's just one of those things that is severely off putting to new PVPers. I've done it, so I'm just as guilty as anyone, but I think if we had to choose one or the other I would rather not have it be an option.
That said, I really like that people can still do it but now they really gotta think about busting it out. Now instead of showing your skill by jamming together 5 attacks in 1 second, you can show your skill by knowing when to deploy that strategy.0 -
RinaldoGandolphi✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭Korah_Eaglecry wrote: »Yolokin_Swagonborn wrote: »Actually sustain was fine at launch, most builds ran at least one sustain set. But we had softcaps so you didn't have to stack damage to the roof.
If they were bringing us back to year 1 I would be overjoyed. Repentance worked year 1. Battle Roar was amazing year one. So was igneous shield.
But that is NOT what they are doing. They are gutting beloved class skills just to keep the champion system and softcap removal process alive.
You think nerfing sustain is a good thing? Remove CP, put caps on regen. Done. Going back is a good thing. game was actually fun back then.
But they aren't going back, they are continuing to nerf things because of CP and no softcaps.
The game was fun back then? Thats purely an opinion that is not shared by all. Id wager its an opinion that is far far far in the minority. It was SO unfun back then that the games sub numbers dropped, the game received across the board negative PR and it was uniformly shrugged off by gamers that typically leaned towards MMOs.
Yes
What killed their sub base was the lighting patch giving people 3 fps in Cyrodiil and trials, and leaving the main quest bugged and incomplete or for like 2 months. The core gameplay it's self was significantly better then what we have now.
Rinaldo Gandolphi-Breton Sorcerer Daggerfall Covenant
Juste Gandolphi Dark Elf Templar Daggerfall Covenant
Richter Gandolphi - Dark Elf Dragonknight Daggerfall Covenant
Mathias Gandolphi - Breton Nightblade Daggerfall Covenant
RinaldoGandolphi - High Elf Sorcerer Aldmeri Dominion
Officer Fire and Ice
Co-GM - MVP
Sorcerer's - The ONLY class in the game that is punished for using its class defining skill (Bolt Escape)
"Here in his shrine, that they have forgotten. Here do we toil, that we might remember. By night we reclaim, what by day was stolen. Far from ourselves, he grows ever near to us. Our eyes once were blinded, now through him do we see. Our hands once were idle, now through them does he speak. And when the world shall listen, and when the world shall see, and when the world remembers, that world will cease to be. - Miraak3 -
ADarklore✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭I was all for the removal of Cost Reduction from CP... but what they've done, as others have said, is OVERKILL! Instead of making the CP change and seeing how sustain played out and adjust later... NO... we have to overreact and make MAJOR changes and make the same exact mistakes that every other MMO has done. Humans... never learn from history or other people's mistakes... instead they just repeat those mistakes over and over and over again and expect a different result.
I would have been content with all the other changes except for them taking the "overkill" hammer to armor too. Like I said, CR removal from CP would have been good enough, but then they went TOO FAR by reducing armor bonus too. I feel like I'm back in DCUO watching the same exact things play out over and over again... oh wait, that's right, ESO has gotten many ideas from DCUO so I guess I shouldn't be surprised.CP: 2078 ** ESO+ 2025 Content Pass ** ~~ ***** Strictly a solo PvE quester *****
~~Started Playing: May 2015 | Stopped Playing: July 2025~~4 -
Yolokin_Swagonborn✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Korah_Eaglecry wrote: »Yolokin_Swagonborn wrote: »Actually sustain was fine at launch, most builds ran at least one sustain set. But we had softcaps so you didn't have to stack damage to the roof.
If they were bringing us back to year 1 I would be overjoyed. Repentance worked year 1. Battle Roar was amazing year one. So was igneous shield.
But that is NOT what they are doing. They are gutting beloved class skills just to keep the champion system and softcap removal process alive.
You think nerfing sustain is a good thing? Remove CP, put caps on regen. Done. Going back is a good thing. game was actually fun back then.
But they aren't going back, they are continuing to nerf things because of CP and no softcaps.
The game was fun back then? Thats purely an opinion that is not shared by all. Id wager its an opinion that is far far far in the minority. It was SO unfun back then that the games sub numbers dropped, the game received across the board negative PR and it was uniformly shrugged off by gamers that typically leaned towards MMOs.
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/211786/bring-back-1-5
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/213690/1-5-was-the-closest-this-game-ever-got-and-ever-will-be-to-perfect
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/297185/so-who-wants-1-5-back-now/p1
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/217735/bring-back-1-5-ploxx/p1
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/224527/tribute-to-the-goodol-days-1-5-dk-emperor
That's only the tip of the iceberg bud.1