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ESO is P2W and here's why.
Smasherx74
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1) At laucnh Imperial Race was introduced which meant anyone wanting to use imperial passives for optimal building would need to pay for it.
That was fine, it wasn't dramatic or as huge of a competitive edge.
2) First DLC is released, with exclusive items(sets).
That was the first real taste of P2W we had. To get BiS gear you had to pay. Much more dramatic than the imperial race, but still not as bad as other games that are P2W.
3) Warden class is introduced. At first it appeared to be Pay To Play, but now they've nerfed everybody and nerfed specific things like Major Mending so that Warden will have that inherit advantage.
This is the biggest P2W thing introduced thus far. If you want reliable major mending for example, you have to play warden. Removing/nerfing skills to make a new class/skill the only viable option is a huge unfair competitive advantage and is P2W.
I understand the economic reasons behind P2W, I'm not arguing why ZOS is doing this, I'm arguing why this is P2W.
I understand Warden may not be the best class in the world at everything, but they sure as hell do have specific abilities to counteract the nerf on other class abilities.
[Edit to remove mention of moderator action]
Edited by [Deleted User] on April 19, 2017 1:05AM That was fine, it wasn't dramatic or as huge of a competitive edge.
2) First DLC is released, with exclusive items(sets).
That was the first real taste of P2W we had. To get BiS gear you had to pay. Much more dramatic than the imperial race, but still not as bad as other games that are P2W.
3) Warden class is introduced. At first it appeared to be Pay To Play, but now they've nerfed everybody and nerfed specific things like Major Mending so that Warden will have that inherit advantage.
This is the biggest P2W thing introduced thus far. If you want reliable major mending for example, you have to play warden. Removing/nerfing skills to make a new class/skill the only viable option is a huge unfair competitive advantage and is P2W.
I understand the economic reasons behind P2W, I'm not arguing why ZOS is doing this, I'm arguing why this is P2W.
I understand Warden may not be the best class in the world at everything, but they sure as hell do have specific abilities to counteract the nerf on other class abilities.
[Edit to remove mention of moderator action]
Master Debater
40
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wolfdoggie_ESO✭✭✭✭Not having inventory space feels like loosing so crafting bag/double bank space feels like pay2win.3 -
Smasherx74✭✭✭✭✭
✭ManwithBeard9 wrote: »Its not P2W, this will be locked too.
How is it not P2W? I just gave you multiple reasons why it's P2W.
The argument it's not P2W is only valid in the non-literal sense. And now that they've nerfed things to make Warden more OP, that argument is invalid.
Master Debater13 -
geonsocal✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭glad you started a new thread...interesting stuff...
There is literal and non-literal P2W. This is literal p2w at this point, and multiple other things have been in the past.Smasherx74 wrote: »My thread was golden, too bad it got removed because I refused to let people spew their ignorant opinions.
P2W isn't pay to progress or pay to advance, it's pay to have an unfair advantage over other.
Here is a list for you.
Imperial Race
Item sets
Warden class.
good points @Smasherx74 ...given that rationale though - where does it end: mount training, experience scrolls, bag/bank space upgrades, bottomless crafting bag...
what is the difference then between pay to win and paying for convenience?
How to justify the purchase of any (beyond cosmetics) additional content...
PVP Campaigns Section: Playstation NA and EU (Gray Host) - This Must be the Place3 -
Smasherx74✭✭✭✭✭
✭glad you started a new thread...interesting stuff...
There is literal and non-literal P2W. This is literal p2w at this point, and multiple other things have been in the past.Smasherx74 wrote: »My thread was golden, too bad it got removed because I refused to let people spew their ignorant opinions.
P2W isn't pay to progress or pay to advance, it's pay to have an unfair advantage over other.
Here is a list for you.
Imperial Race
Item sets
Warden class.
good points @Smasherx74 ...given that rationale though - where does it end: mount training, experience scrolls, bag/bank space upgrades, bottomless crafting bag...
what is the difference then between pay to win and paying for convenience?
How to justify the purchase of any (beyond cosmetics) additional content...
Pay to win is paying for an unfair competitive advantage over people
Pay for convience is paying for something to be done for you, such as buying Mofits.Master Debater14 -
ManwithBeard9✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Explain to me how the Warden can out DPS, tank, heal, any other class? How will the Warden post record times/points for VMA? How will Warden make Rakkhat Vet HM so easy you only need 6 Wardens? How will Warden make obtaining Emperor in PVP easier than ever? And no, Major Mending will not be the deciding factor in any of this.9 -
Smasherx74✭✭✭✭✭
✭wolfdoggie_ESO wrote: »Not having inventory space feels like loosing so crafting bag/double bank space feels like pay2win.
That's pay for convenience. Doesn't give an unfair competitive advantage to have more inventory space unless you're constantly switching gear mid battle which isn't a thing in this game.
Master Debater5 -
So? They'll eventually nerf the Warden class in order to re-balance everything anyway.
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Smasherx74✭✭✭✭✭
✭ManwithBeard9 wrote: »Explain to me how the Warden can out DPS, tank, heal, any other class? How will the Warden post record times/points for VMA? How will Warden make Rakkhat Vet HM so easy you only need 6 Wardens? How will Warden make obtaining Emperor in PVP easier than ever? And no, Major Mending will not be the deciding factor in any of this.
I don't know, and it doesn't matter.
They have an inherit competitive advantage over other classes due to the recent nerfs on everyone.
Edit: This isn't a debate, I'm not trying to convince you of anything. I'm stating facts. Nerfing everyone to have unreliable major mending then giving Warden reliable major mending is a literal display of paying for unfair competitive advantages over others. P2W.Edited by Smasherx74 on April 19, 2017 12:28AMMaster Debater9 -
ManwithBeard9✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Smasherx74 wrote: »ManwithBeard9 wrote: »Explain to me how the Warden can out DPS, tank, heal, any other class? How will the Warden post record times/points for VMA? How will Warden make Rakkhat Vet HM so easy you only need 6 Wardens? How will Warden make obtaining Emperor in PVP easier than ever? And no, Major Mending will not be the deciding factor in any of this.
I don't know, and it doesn't matter.
They have an inherit competitive advantage over other classes due to the recent nerfs on everyone.
Edit: This isn't a debate, I'm not trying to convince you of anything. I'm stating facts. Nerfing everyone to have unreliable major mending then giving Warden reliable major mending is a literal display of paying for unfair competitive advantages over others. P2W.
Please explain these competitive advantages. How will a Warden out DPS a Nightblade for trials? How will a Warden out heal a Templar in a trial when a Warden's heals are directional? Will a Warden be able to face tank any boss in the game better than any other class?2 -
ManwithBeard9✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭ManwithBeard9 wrote: »Smasherx74 wrote: »ManwithBeard9 wrote: »Explain to me how the Warden can out DPS, tank, heal, any other class? How will the Warden post record times/points for VMA? How will Warden make Rakkhat Vet HM so easy you only need 6 Wardens? How will Warden make obtaining Emperor in PVP easier than ever? And no, Major Mending will not be the deciding factor in any of this.
I don't know, and it doesn't matter.
They have an inherit competitive advantage over other classes due to the recent nerfs on everyone.
Edit: This isn't a debate, I'm not trying to convince you of anything. I'm stating facts. Nerfing everyone to have unreliable major mending then giving Warden reliable major mending is a literal display of paying for unfair competitive advantages over others. P2W.
Please explain these competitive advantages. How will a Warden out DPS a Nightblade for trials? How will a Warden out heal a Templar in a trial when a Warden's heals are directional? Will a Warden be able to face tank any boss in the game better than any other class?
Edit: Facts have evidence to back them up, all you have is baseless opinions and thoughtless conjecture.17 -
Balibe✭✭✭✭How can you count the imperial race in your nonsense post. It was released well before the game went free, they were charging a monthly access fee for over a year after it was released .....
Let me quote this again as they make sense .....AzraelKrieg wrote: »For christ sake shut up. Stop making the same damn topic over and over when your previous has been locked. Just go away. If you hate the game so much why the hell are you even here?
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Smasherx74✭✭✭✭✭
✭komodozermike wrote: »So? They'll eventually nerf the Warden class in order to re-balance everything anyway.
Doesn't help me when morrowind comes out.ManwithBeard9 wrote: »Smasherx74 wrote: »ManwithBeard9 wrote: »Explain to me how the Warden can out DPS, tank, heal, any other class? How will the Warden post record times/points for VMA? How will Warden make Rakkhat Vet HM so easy you only need 6 Wardens? How will Warden make obtaining Emperor in PVP easier than ever? And no, Major Mending will not be the deciding factor in any of this.
I don't know, and it doesn't matter.
They have an inherit competitive advantage over other classes due to the recent nerfs on everyone.
Edit: This isn't a debate, I'm not trying to convince you of anything. I'm stating facts. Nerfing everyone to have unreliable major mending then giving Warden reliable major mending is a literal display of paying for unfair competitive advantages over others. P2W.
Please explain these competitive advantages. How will a Warden out DPS a Nightblade for trials? How will a Warden out heal a Templar in a trial when a Warden's heals are directional? Will a Warden be able to face tank any boss in the game better than any other class?
I do not have that information and it's irrelevant.
What we do know is major mending is now non-reliable for DK and templars, where as Wardens have a consistently reliable Major mending. That is all I need to make the claim warden is P2W. Because they literally nerfed abilities to make the Wardens ability more powerful relatively.
Master Debater5 -
Smasherx74✭✭✭✭✭
✭How can you count the imperial race in your nonsense post. It was released well before the game went free, they were charging a monthly access fee for over a year after it was released .....
Let me quote this again as they make sense .....AzraelKrieg wrote: »For christ sake shut up. Stop making the same damn topic over and over when your previous has been locked. Just go away. If you hate the game so much why the hell are you even here?
The game having a sub fee or not is totally irrelevant.
Imperials were introduced behind a pay wall, that pay wall limited players who didn't pay for that specific thing from having the imperial race, which in return gave a handful of passives that gave a unique advantage in their own right. It wasn't as dramatic or drastic as my other two examples, but none the less it was P2W.Master Debater2 -
SnubbS✭✭✭✭✭From what I've read about the class I don't see it as BiS for everything—and if you believe Warden is P2W, please explain your reasoning. Because I just don't see it as BiS. Will it be good? Definitely—there seem to be a lot of possibilities with the class. BiS Tank/Healer/DD though? I'm not convinced.1 -
ManwithBeard9✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Smasherx74 wrote: »komodozermike wrote: »So? They'll eventually nerf the Warden class in order to re-balance everything anyway.
Doesn't help me when morrowind comes out.ManwithBeard9 wrote: »Smasherx74 wrote: »ManwithBeard9 wrote: »Explain to me how the Warden can out DPS, tank, heal, any other class? How will the Warden post record times/points for VMA? How will Warden make Rakkhat Vet HM so easy you only need 6 Wardens? How will Warden make obtaining Emperor in PVP easier than ever? And no, Major Mending will not be the deciding factor in any of this.
I don't know, and it doesn't matter.
They have an inherit competitive advantage over other classes due to the recent nerfs on everyone.
Edit: This isn't a debate, I'm not trying to convince you of anything. I'm stating facts. Nerfing everyone to have unreliable major mending then giving Warden reliable major mending is a literal display of paying for unfair competitive advantages over others. P2W.
Please explain these competitive advantages. How will a Warden out DPS a Nightblade for trials? How will a Warden out heal a Templar in a trial when a Warden's heals are directional? Will a Warden be able to face tank any boss in the game better than any other class?
I do not have that information and it's irrelevant.
What we do know is major mending is now non-reliable for DK and templars, where as Wardens have a consistently reliable Major mending. That is all I need to make the claim warden is P2W. Because they literally nerfed abilities to make the Wardens ability more powerful relatively.
You have no information, so information is irrelevant. My point exactly. You are just poo-posting. And major mending wont do much to increase your DPS. And Warden Major Mending in fully reliable on under %50 health, and they could easily adjust that to under %30 and they should. An adjustment for mDK would be to either strengthen the shield or leave it as live and add a cooldown as to avoid %100 uptime.2 -
Smasherx74✭✭✭✭✭
✭From what I've read about the class I don't see it as BiS for everything—and if you believe Warden is P2W, please explain your reasoning. Because I just don't see it as BiS. Will it be good? Definitely—there seem to be a lot of possibilities with the class. BiS Tank/Healer/DD though? I'm not convinced.
BiS stands for "Best In Slot" typically referring to gear. Maybe you misunderstood something, when I used the term BiS i was directly talking about Gear.
You could argue Imperial is BiS for certain things as well, but for warden I wouldn't call that "BiS" because I have no idea what "slot" would be in this case. If you mean best class for a certain build, that could go either way.Master Debater0 -
Smasherx74✭✭✭✭✭
✭ManwithBeard9 wrote: »Smasherx74 wrote: »komodozermike wrote: »So? They'll eventually nerf the Warden class in order to re-balance everything anyway.
Doesn't help me when morrowind comes out.ManwithBeard9 wrote: »Smasherx74 wrote: »ManwithBeard9 wrote: »Explain to me how the Warden can out DPS, tank, heal, any other class? How will the Warden post record times/points for VMA? How will Warden make Rakkhat Vet HM so easy you only need 6 Wardens? How will Warden make obtaining Emperor in PVP easier than ever? And no, Major Mending will not be the deciding factor in any of this.
I don't know, and it doesn't matter.
They have an inherit competitive advantage over other classes due to the recent nerfs on everyone.
Edit: This isn't a debate, I'm not trying to convince you of anything. I'm stating facts. Nerfing everyone to have unreliable major mending then giving Warden reliable major mending is a literal display of paying for unfair competitive advantages over others. P2W.
Please explain these competitive advantages. How will a Warden out DPS a Nightblade for trials? How will a Warden out heal a Templar in a trial when a Warden's heals are directional? Will a Warden be able to face tank any boss in the game better than any other class?
I do not have that information and it's irrelevant.
What we do know is major mending is now non-reliable for DK and templars, where as Wardens have a consistently reliable Major mending. That is all I need to make the claim warden is P2W. Because they literally nerfed abilities to make the Wardens ability more powerful relatively.
You have no information, so information is irrelevant. My point exactly. You are just poo-posting. And major mending wont do much to increase your DPS. And Warden Major Mending in fully reliable on under %50 health, and they could easily adjust that to under %30 and they should. An adjustment for mDK would be to either strengthen the shield or leave it as live and add a cooldown as to avoid %100 uptime.
Do not take what I say out of context again.
Major mending would most likely relate to sustainability and healing. I see you have proposals for how to balance the game with these new incoming nerfs, maybe you should consider creating your own thread dedicated to that.
Master Debater3 -
Izaki✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Wow dude just wow. You stooped pretty low.@ Izaki #PCEU
#FrenchKiss #GoneFor2YearsAndMyGuildDoesn'tRaidAnymore
#MoreDPSthanYou
#Stamblade7 -
ManwithBeard9✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Smasherx74 wrote: »ManwithBeard9 wrote: »Smasherx74 wrote: »komodozermike wrote: »So? They'll eventually nerf the Warden class in order to re-balance everything anyway.
Doesn't help me when morrowind comes out.ManwithBeard9 wrote: »Smasherx74 wrote: »ManwithBeard9 wrote: »Explain to me how the Warden can out DPS, tank, heal, any other class? How will the Warden post record times/points for VMA? How will Warden make Rakkhat Vet HM so easy you only need 6 Wardens? How will Warden make obtaining Emperor in PVP easier than ever? And no, Major Mending will not be the deciding factor in any of this.
I don't know, and it doesn't matter.
They have an inherit competitive advantage over other classes due to the recent nerfs on everyone.
Edit: This isn't a debate, I'm not trying to convince you of anything. I'm stating facts. Nerfing everyone to have unreliable major mending then giving Warden reliable major mending is a literal display of paying for unfair competitive advantages over others. P2W.
Please explain these competitive advantages. How will a Warden out DPS a Nightblade for trials? How will a Warden out heal a Templar in a trial when a Warden's heals are directional? Will a Warden be able to face tank any boss in the game better than any other class?
I do not have that information and it's irrelevant.
What we do know is major mending is now non-reliable for DK and templars, where as Wardens have a consistently reliable Major mending. That is all I need to make the claim warden is P2W. Because they literally nerfed abilities to make the Wardens ability more powerful relatively.
You have no information, so information is irrelevant. My point exactly. You are just poo-posting. And major mending wont do much to increase your DPS. And Warden Major Mending in fully reliable on under %50 health, and they could easily adjust that to under %30 and they should. An adjustment for mDK would be to either strengthen the shield or leave it as live and add a cooldown as to avoid %100 uptime.
Do not take what I say out of context again.
Major mending would most likely relate to sustainability and healing. I see you have proposals for how to balance the game with these new incoming nerfs, maybe you should consider creating your own thread dedicated to that.
I wouldnt need to create a new thread, just post that information on the ZOS created thread in the PTS forum. You still ahve provided no information as to how a Warden would be the best class in any of the three roles.2 -
Yolokin_Swagonborn✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭We should have the right on these forums to discuss whether or not the blanket class nerfs to benefit a paywall class constitutes pay-to-win or not.
It isn't an easy determination. Arguments must be made to support or reject this thesis. What I ask of everyone in this thread is to make those arguments.
The people in here throwing insults around are just trying to get the thread locked because they know that they can grief in a thread and get it locked. Why the mods lock the thread instead of punishing the people that are clearly flaming is beyond me but its clear that flaming helps get threads taken do so they flame away.
That being said. Instead of flaming. Make your case. Is the warden so strong and the other classes nerfed so much that you are at a severe competitive advantage if you don't run a warden?
Discuss.12 -
Smasherx74✭✭✭✭✭
✭ManwithBeard9 wrote: »Smasherx74 wrote: »ManwithBeard9 wrote: »Smasherx74 wrote: »komodozermike wrote: »So? They'll eventually nerf the Warden class in order to re-balance everything anyway.
Doesn't help me when morrowind comes out.ManwithBeard9 wrote: »Smasherx74 wrote: »ManwithBeard9 wrote: »Explain to me how the Warden can out DPS, tank, heal, any other class? How will the Warden post record times/points for VMA? How will Warden make Rakkhat Vet HM so easy you only need 6 Wardens? How will Warden make obtaining Emperor in PVP easier than ever? And no, Major Mending will not be the deciding factor in any of this.
I don't know, and it doesn't matter.
They have an inherit competitive advantage over other classes due to the recent nerfs on everyone.
Edit: This isn't a debate, I'm not trying to convince you of anything. I'm stating facts. Nerfing everyone to have unreliable major mending then giving Warden reliable major mending is a literal display of paying for unfair competitive advantages over others. P2W.
Please explain these competitive advantages. How will a Warden out DPS a Nightblade for trials? How will a Warden out heal a Templar in a trial when a Warden's heals are directional? Will a Warden be able to face tank any boss in the game better than any other class?
I do not have that information and it's irrelevant.
What we do know is major mending is now non-reliable for DK and templars, where as Wardens have a consistently reliable Major mending. That is all I need to make the claim warden is P2W. Because they literally nerfed abilities to make the Wardens ability more powerful relatively.
You have no information, so information is irrelevant. My point exactly. You are just poo-posting. And major mending wont do much to increase your DPS. And Warden Major Mending in fully reliable on under %50 health, and they could easily adjust that to under %30 and they should. An adjustment for mDK would be to either strengthen the shield or leave it as live and add a cooldown as to avoid %100 uptime.
Do not take what I say out of context again.
Major mending would most likely relate to sustainability and healing. I see you have proposals for how to balance the game with these new incoming nerfs, maybe you should consider creating your own thread dedicated to that.
I wouldnt need to create a new thread, just post that information on the ZOS created thread in the PTS forum. You still ahve provided no information as to how a Warden would be the best class in any of the three roles.
Never once made the claim Warden would be best class for any role, I said ZOS would ensure they stay one of the top classes in one or more of the roles.
Which they did, I predicted this about a week or two ago. I was correct. They nerfed everyone specifically on major mending then left the warden with the only ability left with reliable major mending.
Maybe you think major mending isn't as much of an unfair competitive advantage to label warden as P2W. Well that's non of my concern because I'm not here to argue patch notes or how useful an ability is. I'm here to argue the facts, and the facts are warden is now the only class with reliable major mending, and is behind a paywall.Master Debater2 -
Jadednatas✭✭✭I don't get it.. the warden exists but you complain like it will literally be the only class you can play on to 'win' ...wtf man calm down.
If warden dropped an literally every trial team was all wardens then maybe your points (opinions) would be valid.
They don't look to be the 'best' at anything really so it's not like we are gonna stop playing our sorcs nbs dks an templars.
And it's part of an expansion so just enjoy the new content or don't buy it, but the posts just to argue nonsense are old.
In b4 lock!1 -
ManwithBeard9✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Smasherx74 wrote: »ManwithBeard9 wrote: »Smasherx74 wrote: »ManwithBeard9 wrote: »Smasherx74 wrote: »komodozermike wrote: »So? They'll eventually nerf the Warden class in order to re-balance everything anyway.
Doesn't help me when morrowind comes out.ManwithBeard9 wrote: »Smasherx74 wrote: »ManwithBeard9 wrote: »Explain to me how the Warden can out DPS, tank, heal, any other class? How will the Warden post record times/points for VMA? How will Warden make Rakkhat Vet HM so easy you only need 6 Wardens? How will Warden make obtaining Emperor in PVP easier than ever? And no, Major Mending will not be the deciding factor in any of this.
I don't know, and it doesn't matter.
They have an inherit competitive advantage over other classes due to the recent nerfs on everyone.
Edit: This isn't a debate, I'm not trying to convince you of anything. I'm stating facts. Nerfing everyone to have unreliable major mending then giving Warden reliable major mending is a literal display of paying for unfair competitive advantages over others. P2W.
Please explain these competitive advantages. How will a Warden out DPS a Nightblade for trials? How will a Warden out heal a Templar in a trial when a Warden's heals are directional? Will a Warden be able to face tank any boss in the game better than any other class?
I do not have that information and it's irrelevant.
What we do know is major mending is now non-reliable for DK and templars, where as Wardens have a consistently reliable Major mending. That is all I need to make the claim warden is P2W. Because they literally nerfed abilities to make the Wardens ability more powerful relatively.
You have no information, so information is irrelevant. My point exactly. You are just poo-posting. And major mending wont do much to increase your DPS. And Warden Major Mending in fully reliable on under %50 health, and they could easily adjust that to under %30 and they should. An adjustment for mDK would be to either strengthen the shield or leave it as live and add a cooldown as to avoid %100 uptime.
Do not take what I say out of context again.
Major mending would most likely relate to sustainability and healing. I see you have proposals for how to balance the game with these new incoming nerfs, maybe you should consider creating your own thread dedicated to that.
I wouldnt need to create a new thread, just post that information on the ZOS created thread in the PTS forum. You still ahve provided no information as to how a Warden would be the best class in any of the three roles.
Never once made the claim Warden would be best class for any role, I said ZOS would ensure they stay one of the top classes in one or more of the roles.
Which they did, I predicted this about a week or two ago. I was correct. They nerfed everyone specifically on major mending then left the warden with the only ability left with reliable major mending.
Maybe you think major mending isn't as much of an unfair competitive advantage to label warden as P2W. Well that's non of my concern because I'm not here to argue patch notes or how useful an ability is. I'm here to argue the facts, and the facts are warden is now the only class with reliable major mending, and is behind a paywall.
So in your opinion, Major Mending is the secret to "winning" in ESO. Would you like to explain your reasoning? Or just continue to post nothing of substance.6 -
Smasherx74✭✭✭✭✭
✭Jadednatas wrote: »I don't get it.. the warden exists but you complain like it will literally be the only class you can play on to 'win' ...wtf man calm down.
If warden dropped an literally every trial team was all wardens then maybe your points (opinions) would be valid.
They don't look to be the 'best' at anything really so it's not like we are gonna stop playing our sorcs nbs dks an templars.
And it's part of an expansion so just enjoy the new content or don't buy it, but the posts just to argue nonsense are old.
In b4 lock!
I am not "complaining like it's going to be the only class you can play on to win", that's your interpretation of what I've said and it's entirely false.
All I'm saying is they nerfed everyone to make warden more viable. To the extent at which they nerfed others, will be up for debate when we have theory testers come in and do their work. As of right now what we know for a fact is Warden is the only class with viable major mending where as the other classes with major mending have been nerfed to be non-reliable.
See patch notes for more explanation on that.Master Debater2 -
Smasherx74✭✭✭✭✭
✭ManwithBeard9 wrote: »Smasherx74 wrote: »ManwithBeard9 wrote: »Smasherx74 wrote: »ManwithBeard9 wrote: »Smasherx74 wrote: »komodozermike wrote: »So? They'll eventually nerf the Warden class in order to re-balance everything anyway.
Doesn't help me when morrowind comes out.ManwithBeard9 wrote: »Smasherx74 wrote: »ManwithBeard9 wrote: »Explain to me how the Warden can out DPS, tank, heal, any other class? How will the Warden post record times/points for VMA? How will Warden make Rakkhat Vet HM so easy you only need 6 Wardens? How will Warden make obtaining Emperor in PVP easier than ever? And no, Major Mending will not be the deciding factor in any of this.
I don't know, and it doesn't matter.
They have an inherit competitive advantage over other classes due to the recent nerfs on everyone.
Edit: This isn't a debate, I'm not trying to convince you of anything. I'm stating facts. Nerfing everyone to have unreliable major mending then giving Warden reliable major mending is a literal display of paying for unfair competitive advantages over others. P2W.
Please explain these competitive advantages. How will a Warden out DPS a Nightblade for trials? How will a Warden out heal a Templar in a trial when a Warden's heals are directional? Will a Warden be able to face tank any boss in the game better than any other class?
I do not have that information and it's irrelevant.
What we do know is major mending is now non-reliable for DK and templars, where as Wardens have a consistently reliable Major mending. That is all I need to make the claim warden is P2W. Because they literally nerfed abilities to make the Wardens ability more powerful relatively.
You have no information, so information is irrelevant. My point exactly. You are just poo-posting. And major mending wont do much to increase your DPS. And Warden Major Mending in fully reliable on under %50 health, and they could easily adjust that to under %30 and they should. An adjustment for mDK would be to either strengthen the shield or leave it as live and add a cooldown as to avoid %100 uptime.
Do not take what I say out of context again.
Major mending would most likely relate to sustainability and healing. I see you have proposals for how to balance the game with these new incoming nerfs, maybe you should consider creating your own thread dedicated to that.
I wouldnt need to create a new thread, just post that information on the ZOS created thread in the PTS forum. You still ahve provided no information as to how a Warden would be the best class in any of the three roles.
Never once made the claim Warden would be best class for any role, I said ZOS would ensure they stay one of the top classes in one or more of the roles.
Which they did, I predicted this about a week or two ago. I was correct. They nerfed everyone specifically on major mending then left the warden with the only ability left with reliable major mending.
Maybe you think major mending isn't as much of an unfair competitive advantage to label warden as P2W. Well that's non of my concern because I'm not here to argue patch notes or how useful an ability is. I'm here to argue the facts, and the facts are warden is now the only class with reliable major mending, and is behind a paywall.
So in your opinion, Major Mending is the secret to "winning" in ESO. Would you like to explain your reasoning? Or just continue to post nothing of substance.
Not my opinion. Your interpretation of what I've said. Stop assuming things.
All I'm saying is they nerfed other classes to make Warden the only class with reliable major mending.
That contributes to my previous and original statement of Warden being P2W.
Edited by Smasherx74 on April 19, 2017 12:50AMMaster Debater2 -
Browiseth✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭pay to win would imply warden is better than all the other classes at everything
this has yet to be proven, and from the looks of it, it's lacking somewhat in the DD department
who cares though right, putting P2W in your thread title gets you so much attention so you're gonna do it anywayEdited by Browiseth on April 19, 2017 12:51AMskingrad when zoscharacters:PC/NA but live in EU 150+ ping lyfe- EP - M - Strikes-with-Arcane - Argonian Stamina Sorc - lvl 50 - The Flawless Conqueror/Spirit Slayer
- EP - F - Melina Elinia - Dunmer Magicka Dragonknight - lvl 50
- EP - F - Sinnia Lavellan - Altmer Warden Healer - lvl 50
- EP - M - Follows-the-Arcane - Argonian Healer Sorcerer- lvl 50
- EP - F - Ashes-of-Arcane - Argonian Magicka Necromancer - lvl 50
- EP - M - Bolgrog the Sinh - Orc Stamina Dragonknight - lvl 50
- EP - F - Moonlight Maiden - Altmer Magicka Templar - lvl 50
- EP - F - Maxine Cauline - Breton Magicka Nightblade - lvl 50
- EP - M - Garrus Loridius - Imperial Stamina Templar - lvl 50
- EP - F - Jennifer Loridius - Imperial Necromancer tank - lvl 50
2 -
Smasherx74✭✭✭✭✭
✭pay to win would imply warden is better than all the other classes
this has yet to be proven
who cares though right, putting P2W in your thread title gets you so much attention so you're gonna do it anyway
Warden is better equipped with Major mending than any other class.
(this is factual, so yes It's proven in that regard)Edited by Smasherx74 on April 19, 2017 12:51AMMaster Debater2 -
Xylphan✭✭✭✭This guy has clearly never played Asian trash MMO shop2win games.
There is nothing about this game that is pay2win. Nothing. I can't go buy something off the shop and one shot everything. I can't subscribe and suddenly run record VMA's. I can't buy god like equipment or stats for cash.
You're whining because you want something but don't want to pay for it. Go ahead, if it makes you feel better. But trying to use your injured sense of entitlement as justification for "p2w" really doesn't support your argument.10 -
xeNNNNN✭✭✭✭✭
✭wolfdoggie_ESO wrote: »Not having inventory space feels like loosing so crafting bag/double bank space feels like pay2win.
Bull.
Majority of us who've been here from the beginning lived with no crafted bag for a long ass time and frankly it was a inconvience nothing more nothing less.
Seriously, we're calling bank space and bag space pay to win these days?
How far MMO communities have fallen. Its really effing sad. It really is.Edited by xeNNNNN on April 19, 2017 12:51AMAh, e-communities - the "pinnacle" of the internet............yeah, right.6