ESO is P2W and here's why.

shadow071179

It is not pay to win.

In not an Imperial or have the DLC sets and i bet i kick your Ass in PvP.

The Warden is mostly a Buff Class the nerf some things in other classes so it hase a roll to play in a group. In time it wil be ballenced out.

notimetocare

All this doom and gloom stupidity makes me wonder how many people playing this have much experience with MMORPGs

Shadzilla

Smasherx74 wrote: »

1) At laucnh Imperial Race was introduced which meant anyone wanting to use imperial passives for optimal building would need to pay for it.
That was fine, it wasn't dramatic or as huge of a competitive edge.

2) First DLC is released, with exclusive items(sets).
That was the first real taste of P2W we had. To get BiS gear you had to pay. Much more dramatic than the imperial race, but still not as bad as other games that are P2W.

3) Warden class is introduced. At first it appeared to be Pay To Play, but now they've nerfed everybody and nerfed specific things like Major Mending so that Warden will have that inherit advantage.
This is the biggest P2W thing introduced thus far. If you want reliable major mending for example, you have to play warden. Removing/nerfing skills to make a new class/skill the only viable option is a huge unfair competitive advantage and is P2W.



I understand the economic reasons behind P2W, I'm not arguing why ZOS is doing this, I'm arguing why this is P2W.

I understand Warden may not be the best class in the world at everything, but they sure as hell do have specific abilities to counteract the nerf on other class abilities.


[Edit to remove mention of moderator action]

LOL, have you not played mag sorc?

Julianos

Wake up... You guys doesnt play anymore zos play with you.

Destyran

ManwithBeard9 wrote: »

Explain to me how the Warden can out DPS, tank, heal, any other class? How will the Warden post record times/points for VMA? How will Warden make Rakkhat Vet HM so easy you only need 6 Wardens? How will Warden make obtaining Emperor in PVP easier than ever? And no, Major Mending will not be the deciding factor in any of this.

After these nerfs how will anyone complete vma?

Ep1kMalware

notimetocare wrote: »

All this doom and gloom stupidity makes me wonder how many people playing this have much experience with MMORPGs

Been playing them for 16 years. This is the first one I've seen where they re[eatedly buff content and make you weaker.

Titansteele

If this was not opinion it would have hard facts to back up the statements, it does not.

If it was not meant to be a debate you should have written it down on a flash card and pinned it to your bedroom wall so you could admire what you consider your gospel whenever you wanted without opposing thought. Posting it on an internet forum and not expecting people to question and disagree is almost as ignorant as dressing up opinion as fact.

M0bi

ESO is not pay2win,
It will only become pay to win once the player base gets too small in a few years time.
ZoS has waaay to much to lose by making ESO pay to win.

ralvdlindenpeb18_ESO

Totaly not a p2w game

Synfaer

Ep1kMalware wrote: »

notimetocare wrote: »

All this doom and gloom stupidity makes me wonder how many people playing this have much experience with MMORPGs

Been playing them for 16 years. This is the first one I've seen where they re[eatedly buff content and make you weaker.

Umm this game has been getting easier as time goes by, not harder. Making things a little bit harder is not a bad thing.

Huyen

Now its the Wardens and Imperials. What if it was a woodelf? Or a Redguard instead? Your points dont make any sense at all. Its an expansion that gives a new class. So games like WoW who bring a new class in a expansion are pay to win too? I dont see it tho, as you dont have to sub in ESO, you dont have to buy the expansion, you dont have to play the warden just to enjoy the game and be good at the class you play. This is just another example of a min/max builder that thinks he needs to play a warden to be good. Just grow a pair and stick to what you find fun to play, not what others tell you to.

Kiwi

man up and stop being a tightwad. just buy the dlcs already.
no point playing a gimped version if you like the game.

Zinaroth

By your definition all MMOs are pay to win since they all release paid expansions or DLC.

Rohamad_Ali

ZOS still has an opportunity to correct this course some before live . The imperial class was as you said , iffy . I'm not sure about the first DLC items as things were bind on equip back then and all sets were sold open vendor in game . But the warden ... If it goes in under these circumstances then yes , we have reached pay to win . But it hasn't hit live yet .

FlicksZ

What's wrong with people? Its not like you said this game is going B2P. That will never happen either.

Doctordarkspawn

IzakiBrotherSs wrote: »

Wow dude just wow. You stooped pretty low.

He has good points. It's not like ZOS wasn't a stranger to these sort of practice when the game was even released, and we should have taken that as a sign of things to come.

Hammy01

This thread might get locked but i will list something else that seems kind sketchy (p2w'ish).

The fact that ZOS sells race changes but every DLC makes buffs and nerfs racial pasives so that if you are a min/maxer and want to squeeze out every little bit of dps, you would need to constantly pay to change your race.

This is just my opinion and i base it on the fact that in 1 tamriel i payed to race change my Stam Sorc to redguard and now with the Morrowind DlC the redguard passives are getting nerfed!!

Marktoneth3

P2W my ass

imperial is not even min/max race


stupid ppl

L2P issue

LorenzoSober

World of Warcraft is pay to win because legion gives me access to 10 more levels which puts in a advantage level wise and gear wise over WoD players? This is what your post looks like.

Lugg

that guy... thinks he opens a post on a forum and claims "THIS IS NOT A DISCUSSION"... dude please read you posting in the general discussion forum...

And it seems like you never have seen a real p2w game...

Sakiri

Pffft.

When I started, if you wanted Imperials, you had to have bought the collector edition.

Banana

I dont think so

Tommy_The_Gun

ManwithBeard9 wrote: »

Its not P2W, this will be locked too.

After ZOS nerfed all the cases except for upcoming Warden - it is hard to disagree with P2W (but it is done the other way around). Warden will not be P2W. All other classes will be "Don't-pay-to-lose" or something like that. - But the result will be the same.

tradewith2017

and what is this - pay for convenience?

AzraelKrieg

QT_DevTeam wrote: »

and what is this - pay for convenience?
Redacted due to NDA

Yeah, pretty much. Same as the XP scrolls.

wiz12268b14_ESO

Always love these semantics arguments. In the end people judge 'pay to win' on how much they compromise themselves in to utilizing it. Thats how it is. They justify what used to be absolute pay to win that is now called 'pay for convenience'. Back before the participation trophy era and everyone wins ANY and I mean ANY advantage be it speed, inventory space, skills, 'free' options that other paid for with in game gold, etc were considered pay to win. But now because everyone uses them they cant call it that so they foll themselves and call it pay for 'convenience'.

If a game has a world boss that the first (and only) person who tags it gets the credit and it has a 7 day respawn timer and it is 100% necessary to kill to get a drop that makes a BiS piece. And that drop is either BoP or can be sold for any amount of in game gold. Would a horse speed buff be considered a pay to win option then? What if there were a global announcement on when it spawned and it was a race to get there? I am sure some people would justify getting that drop wasnt 'winning' but to some it most definitely would be especially if having whatever it made gave the person wearing/using it a distinct advantage over anyone who didnt.

People justify a lot of things these days because they have been compromised by the monetization of the developers. And as more and more developers pushed envelopes peoples acceptance level has become lower and lower. Now people literally accept paying for expansions to games that havent even been officially released yet and consider that OK. (not really a pay to win example but an example of how far this sort of thing has come).

Also this whole idea of ''you can get it in game through 'normal' gameplay" excuse is the best sales pitch ever created. That is the ultimate justification for people who defend pay to win err pay for 'convenience'. If it takes a person a year of solid grinding to get it is that 'normal'? What if its longer? That has come up as well and now the word 'normal' isnt even used its basically now 'theoretical'. Maybe not this game but some games. But as long as there is a minuscule chance to obtain something through game play its now OK to sell it in a store. Even if it gives a CLEAR advantage.

I am not picking sides because there really are no sides to pick. Just about every game now has some sort of pay to win aspect to it. Thats just how it is. The only way to distinguish them is by comparison and by degrees. Just because one game does it more and to more of a degree doesnt mean the game you love isnt doing it either, it just might not be as obvious or extreme. So people have to compromise themselves as to what theyre willing to accept.

The irony is that 'convenience;' these days SHOULD be more 'win' than it used to be. Because every 'elite' person is trying to get maxed out on everything as fast as possible. And those 'elite' players are the ones who are generally most harsh on anything 'pay to win' Problem is they all sold out a long time ago and thus because theyre now paying to get somewhere faster its only 'convenient' and not 'winning'. But theyre also the first ones to whiune and cry when those 'conveniences' stop suiting them personally and THEN they become 'win'. Even though the only thing that changed was they werent getting the 'convenience' more than other people.

pieratsos

Smasherx74 wrote: »

Xylphan wrote: »

This guy has clearly never played Asian trash MMO shop2win games.

There is nothing about this game that is pay2win. Nothing. I can't go buy something off the shop and one shot everything. I can't subscribe and suddenly run record VMA's. I can't buy god like equipment or stats for cash.

You're whining because you want something but don't want to pay for it. Go ahead, if it makes you feel better. But trying to use your injured sense of entitlement as justification for "p2w" really doesn't support your argument.

You don't know what you're saying.


P2W is anything that you pay for to gain an unfair competitive advantage.

It's not as black and white as buying a OP gun and 1 shot killing everyone. Sorry but things just aren't that simple, please consider reading my OP before posting again.

It may not be as black and white as buying an OP gun but its also not as black and white as whatever needs real money is P2W. If i were to follow ur logic then i can make an argument about everything in crown store being P2W since I can connect everything directly or indirectly to combat effectiveness. Potions, costumes, vamp/ww bites, riding lessons, furniture, housing, bank space, all DLC, ESO +. Everything would be P2W according to your logic. But it would be prety stupid to call costumes P2W right? In fact there would be no way for them to not make the game P2W unless they dont ever do any kind of maintenance and updates or give people everything for free untill they go bankrupt. Not a good way to run a company right?
There is a fine line between P2W and running a company but most people seem to think that they are the same.

Hammy01

I will just leave this here -

https://www.reddit.com/r/elderscrollsonline/comments/666duw/deltia_morrowindwarden_is_p2w/

Keep_Door

Can we get the Lol button back ?

Lieblingsjunge

No, it's not pay2win. The other classes(Aside from maybe templar who will be 100% replaced by Warden) will not vanish or be un-viable due to Warden.
Warden is an option.

Item sets? It's pretty much the same thing as of now. If you don't have the IC-DLC you don't get access to IC, meaning you won't get to buy Meritorious etc. Not pay-to-win, it's just a perk you get if you get the DLCs.You get something good in return for the money you put into buying the DLC.

This game is far from pay2win, if you want a pay2win game, go play Forsaken World. THEN you'll know what actual P2W is.