PTS Patch Notes Full in dept review (Updates Ongoing! ZOS PLEASE READ!!)

crusnik91 · April 2017

SnubbS wrote: »

What the hell... I'm so glad this isn't my main game. The healing change to BoL is kind of cool—from a PvP perspective at least. This 180 degree cone is actually not that bad, there aren't many times on my PvP healer where I'm purposely hitting BoL to heal someone behind me—in fact that's never the case for me.

The DK changes basically delete DK from the game—DK is already the worst overall class in PvP. StamDK is the worst stam class, MagDK is only really useful in Small-scale PvP (It is good in Small Scale though.) This patch basically deletes small-scale from the game, and nerfs everyone's sustain—but it hurts DK the most. I play 5x light with two cost reductions, 100 into reduced cost and my talons are 2550~ this class has the worst sustain already, the CP being as it is helps MagDK more than any class—small scale helps MagDK have a niche, and those are the two things being nerfed the hardest. This patch just murders DK—you aren't even supposed to play this class, that's what the Devs are saying with this update. Don't play a DK. I'm a One-Star on my MagDK about to push for five stars—should I just buy a race change token to WoodElf, stack 4k stam regen and "3-2-1 My rapids" my way to AvA 50? Oh wait, I was going to do that anyway because of how poorly the class performs in group play.

This is the only balance resource change that was needed in ESO

Heavy Armor

Constitution: Reduced the Magicka and Stamina restored by this passive ability by approximately 42%.

And we got it—we actually got it.

yea if u are talking about raid group play stamina classes especially stamplar and stamdk are pretty much useless. Thus I tend to only play in small groups or solo. But I totally understand your frustration

Hankrabbit · April 2017

This is a game. If you are a good gamer you adapt to the changes and find new ways to play your class successfully. If not you are a potatoe. Don't be a potatoe.

rotaugen454 · April 2017

Hankrabbit wrote: »

This is a game. If you are a good gamer you adapt to the changes and find new ways to play your class successfully. If not you are a potatoe. Don't be a potatoe.

Don't be Dan Quayle.

crusnik91 · April 2017

Hankrabbit wrote: »

This is a game. If you are a good gamer you adapt to the changes and find new ways to play your class successfully. If not you are a potatoe. Don't be a potatoe.

Giving solid constructive feedback & facts with reasoning doesn't mean I won't adapt to the changes. It is just that I felt some of the changes will put more imbalance into the game which made me voice out my opinion.
If u want to see potatoes go to my youtube channel I have many outnumbered clips for your enjoyment

ChildOfLight · April 2017

The slight balance on Redguard race is absolutely necessary.
I'd suggest you to think about it with some sort of criticisim and open mind.

Redguard race is OUTPERFORMING on every side every other race in Pvp for EVERY stam-based character. (and honestly Adrenalin Rush comes super in handy during Pve too)
Why do I have to play an Imperial character ( example given) if redugards are stronger on every single side?
Balance is needed to guarantee some kind of alternatives during RaceChoosing screen.

Otherwise you'll find yourself playing: "Redguard Scroll Online: One Tamriel"

And this, honestly, su...is not good from my perspective. Good job on that, Zos.

crusnik91 · April 2017

ChildOfLight wrote: »

The slight balance on Redguard race is absolutely necessary.
I'd suggest you to think about it with some sort of criticisim and open mind.

Redguard race is OUTPERFORMING on every side every other race in Pvp for EVERY stam-based character. (and honestly Adrenalin Rush comes super in handy during Pve too)
Why do I have to play an Imperial character ( example given) if redugards are stronger on every single side?
Balance is needed to guarantee some kind of alternatives during RaceChoosing screen.

Otherwise you'll find yourself playing: "Redguard Scroll Online: One Tamriel"

And this, honestly, su...is not good from my perspective. Good job on that, Zos.

lemme counter ur argument with facts.
current with 40k stamina on my DK I gain 1.2k stamina per 5 secs if I do a melee attack
after the nerf, I restore 475 stamina per 5 secs. almost a 2/3 lost of stamina gain from a single nerf.
Not to mention redguard was nerf last patch as well.

Now to Imperial. you get a lot more HP 12% & same amount of stamina 10% with that you could easily adjust your build into less HP and more into recovery or cost reduction.
And for the passive u receive 6% health for melee attacks in 10% chance. 6% is roughly about 1.8k HP gain which is affected by any major or minor buffs or CP Quick Recovery & Blessed tree. That is about 2.4k++ HP gain easily.

In conclusion redguard will be *** if the nerf is implemented. Imperial could use a buff on proc chance of 10% to 20% on the passive. All in all other stamina based races are miles ahead so 2 wrong doesnt make anything right

ku5h · April 2017

Im just wondering what will noCP BG/Cyro look like when all this passive nerfs to sustain are obviously made with fully caped CP player in mind. When you remove CP and add all the passive nerfs this will turn into circus really fast. Not to mention they just made the game a lot harder for new players who have no CPs. My suggestion would be to revert all nerfs to classes and nerf CP to the ground.

ChildOfLight · April 2017

crusnik91 wrote: »

lemme counter ur argument with facts.

From my personal experience, half of the people starting with this kind of incipit end up mumbling nonsensical utterances.

If you have something to say, just say it. This kind of claims sound quite weird to me, almost like a random tramp shouting in your face:" I have the truth" while you are just walking to the maket under home to buy some milk.

crusnik91 wrote: »

Now to Imperial. you get a lot more HP 12% & same amount of stamina 10% with that you could easily adjust your build into less HP and more into recovery or cost reduction.

Building Hp, you say. Can you post the build you are referring to, where you build specifically HP, let's say as stamDK? I guess in Meta there is no such thing, since you put 64points into stamina as redguard or as Imperial, and never ever build anything around those 3k missing.
Same reasoning applicable after the patch. Why would you ever build HP?

crusnik91 wrote: »

And for the passive u receive 6% health for melee attacks in 10% chance. 6% is roughly about 1.8k HP gain which is affected by any major or minor buffs or CP Quick Recovery & Blessed tree. That is about 2.4k++ HP gain easily.

Again, can you post the build (hopefully a meta one) you are referring to, where you put any CP into QuickRecovery or Blessed? There are better and optimized way to use CPs (Elemental Defender,Hardy,Resistant)

crusnik91 wrote: »

Imperial could use a buff on proc chance of 10% to 20% on the passive

Wrong. It's 10%. And it's 10% still at rank3 on the RedDiamond passive proc.
Plus, 10% just on "melee attacks" that means no procs, no dots

In conclusion, I have to say, your post counters nothing.
You ended up scribbling some sentences with many more errors (about character building) than words.

This makes you appear like someone who is just ranting about his race being finally and rightfully balanced and lowered to the level of the other ones.

EDIT:

I missed this one:

crusnik91 wrote: »

All in all other stamina based races are miles ahead (referring to redguard)

Well, it's already ironcal as it is. Can't really add more, I am sorry.

SnubbS · April 2017

crusnik91 wrote: »

SnubbS wrote: »

What the hell... I'm so glad this isn't my main game. The healing change to BoL is kind of cool—from a PvP perspective at least. This 180 degree cone is actually not that bad, there aren't many times on my PvP healer where I'm purposely hitting BoL to heal someone behind me—in fact that's never the case for me.

The DK changes basically delete DK from the game—DK is already the worst overall class in PvP. StamDK is the worst stam class, MagDK is only really useful in Small-scale PvP (It is good in Small Scale though.) This patch basically deletes small-scale from the game, and nerfs everyone's sustain—but it hurts DK the most. I play 5x light with two cost reductions, 100 into reduced cost and my talons are 2550~ this class has the worst sustain already, the CP being as it is helps MagDK more than any class—small scale helps MagDK have a niche, and those are the two things being nerfed the hardest. This patch just murders DK—you aren't even supposed to play this class, that's what the Devs are saying with this update. Don't play a DK. I'm a One-Star on my MagDK about to push for five stars—should I just buy a race change token to WoodElf, stack 4k stam regen and "3-2-1 My rapids" my way to AvA 50? Oh wait, I was going to do that anyway because of how poorly the class performs in group play.

This is the only balance resource change that was needed in ESO

Heavy Armor

Constitution: Reduced the Magicka and Stamina restored by this passive ability by approximately 42%.

And we got it—we actually got it.

yea if u are talking about raid group play stamina classes especially stamplar and stamdk are pretty much useless. Thus I tend to only play in small groups or solo. But I totally understand your frustration

I mean as far I know—StamDK never had anything for group play. Magma shell is a joke, trying to play offensively with Standard is a joke. At least if your rapids build was a Stamplar before and he was getting all the repents—your group was getting a lot more bang for their buck in terms of dead bodies equaling out to more Stam.

It isn't like MagDK is useful right now in group play either—and they didn't get a buff next patch, they still don't bring anything. You can put a destro on, and be a less effective bomber, who hits for less and spams a worse version of Encase, like why would you want that in your group? Their most useful group oriented skill is a pain in the ass to use offensively, hits for about as much as Hurricane, and provides a debuff that you can get from a Regular Warden Active Skill. So why would you even bother? Their only real use is small scale—that got nerfed hard.

I would also bet any amount of money that the Warden skill will heal for more than Shifting Standard damages for—and I bet you can at least place it somewhere besides directly on top of you. Like if we're going to hit sej side alessia bridge, I bet you can throw a heal debuff 12 meters away on top of the zerg in the hallway and have your destros push into that. You can't do that with Standard.

An opportunity was missed here in regards to giving MagDK something, anything for organized PvP. Shifting Standard needed a change—either have it be like liquid lightning, where you can just throw it out and push into it, or have it where you can no longer recast the ability, but the ability just follows you and you can use it like Destro-Ult to apply a relevant debuff to your opponents. You could actually do something unique—and at least have a few different options with the class. There aren't any dynamic choices that are going to be made by blanket increasing the cost of abilities by 10-25%—there are going to be very few ways to play this class—less than are now, and nearly all of them will look the same.

dead1ycool · April 2017

leepalmer95 wrote: »

Basically you dont agree with 90% of the changes?

Im quite happy they've killed of the infinite sustain crap that has plagued the game for a year, bringing sustain back as an actual thought in both pve and pvp is a good change in my book.

dead1ycool · April 2017

leepalmer95 wrote: »

Basically you dont agree with 90% of the changes?

Im quite happy they've killed of the infinite sustain crap that has plagued the game for a year, bringing sustain back as an actual thought in both pve and pvp is a good change in my book.

LOL I guess nobody told you they have resource poisons in the game. There is no such thing as infinite sustain you noob. It's casual players like you who are ruining the game for everyone by complaining because you have no skill. You think that this nerf is gonna effect us more than you? It's just gonna make you even worse and annoy the hell out of the good players

olsborg · April 2017

b) Shields will outperform ALL forms of healing
Reasoning due to
1) nerf to access to major mending classes
2) Increase of 30% cost of vigor
3) Bastion remains at 25% in CP tree while Quick Recovery, Blessed & EVEN HEALTH?! receives a nerf down to 15%
4) Shields are still affected by Major&Minor Protection (especially from pirate skeleton). 30% from major protect and shields are still non-critable as well!!
SOLUTION:
Either 1) Reduce bastion to 15%, remove cost increase of vigor & remove major and minor protection to all forms of shield
OR 2) Keep bastion at 25%, increase Quick Recovery & Blessed to 25% and remove major and minor protection to all forms of shield
No matter what major & minor protection should never be able to apply to shields (many players already agree to this and many forum posts has been written as well)

Yes, and yes to what youre saying here, and yes. This is my biggest issue with morrowind patch.

olsborg · April 2017

Oh and btw, what they should do to leeching strikes, make it cost nothing, just like the warden skill for sustain, and make it give minor mending and restore 500 stamina atleast per light atk.

crusnik91 · April 2017

olsborg wrote: »

Oh and btw, what they should do to leeching strikes, make it cost nothing, just like the warden skill for sustain, and make it give minor mending and restore 500 stamina atleast per light atk.

but then no one will buy it for warden XD

sneakymitchell · April 2017

@crusnik91 My question is do u heavy attack? Now players need to put points in tenacity in order to substain. U will survive with the nerf. Just heavy attack weave more often. Every player don't use heavy attacks they rather light attack and substain most the time. Or if not use one hand shield bash light attack and use a skill or whatever combo they have. We need this type of smart play in the game. And use pots every time but mostly when needed.

crusnik91 · April 2017

sneakymitchell wrote: »

@crusnik91 My question is do u heavy attack? Now players need to put points in tenacity in order to substain. U will survive with the nerf. Just heavy attack weave more often. Every player don't use heavy attacks they rather light attack and substain most the time. Or if not use one hand shield bash light attack and use a skill or whatever combo they have. We need this type of smart play in the game. And use pots every time but mostly when needed.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=snWLqD6r7Kg
I do a lot of heavy attacks if I am not under too much pressure in outnumbered fights.
The nerf is too much simple as that. I can accept the nerf to ALL cost reduction from CP but the nerfs to DK's resource gaining passive is totally unnecessary.

- Mag Templar has minor magicka steal + rune focus + Restoring Spirit Passive(Reduces Magicka, Stamina and Ultimate ability costs by 4%)
- Stam Templar has repentence passive&active + Restoring Spirit Passive(Reduces Magicka, Stamina and Ultimate ability costs by 4%)
- Mag Sorcerer has Unholy Knowledge passive(5%mag and stamina reduction) + Capacitor passive (10% Mag recovery) + Dark Exchange (OP resource skill for morrowind) - CRAZY SUSTAIN
- Stam Sorcerer has Unholy Knowledge passive(5%mag and stamina reduction) + Dark Exchange (OP resource skill for morrowind)
- Mag Nightblade has Siphoning Strikes (even if it is nerfed) + Refreshing shadow passive(Increases Stamina, Health and Magicka Regeneration by 15%)
- Stam Nightblade has Siphoning Strikes (even if it is nerfed) + Refreshing shadow passive(Increases Stamina, Health and Magicka Regeneration by 15%) + relentless focus (8% stam regen)

This is the list of untouched sustain skills and passive from other classes.
Why only nerf DK and leave out all other classes. DK doesn't even have any passive for cost reduction or any sort of recovery. The only way to sustain is to rely on helping hands & battle roar. With both of them gone, stam skills costing more, cost reduction gone, vigor cost increase, siphoner introduction and redguard nerf, yes I dare say even the best DKs will face BIG TIME sustain issues

Narvuntien · April 2017

I don't really have a problem with most of the sustain nerfs. I really like the CP changes for example. I think the armor sustain nerfs are really big but might almost be fine since heavy armor was too powerful in PVP.

But I don't agree with the class skill changes, particularly templar , but also Nightblade and DK. I get they want to limit sustain so they nerfed the class sustain options but I think that is a mistake, those skills take up space on a bar you still need to decide to spec into sustain. There still needs to be the option to spec into sustain. That is the issue you can't spec into sustain because they nerfed ALL sustain.

Also I don't want the 180 cone thing not to go through because it killed my build, I didn't realise because I don't know the unmorphed skill names. major meaning is probably possible to get elsewhere, it is just annoying that warden still has it.

crusnik91 · April 2017

Narvuntien wrote: »

But I don't agree with the class skill changes, particularly templar , but also Nightblade and DK. I get they want to limit sustain so they nerfed the class sustain options but I think that is a mistake, those skills take up space on a bar you still need to decide to spec into sustain. There still needs to be the option to spec into sustain. That is the issue you can't spec into sustain because they nerfed ALL sustain.

exactly! with all these changes everyone is just gonna build for sustain in PVP. There goes all your build variation T-T

Docmandu · April 2017

Narvuntien wrote: »

They want people to take damage sometimes when they have to heavy attack.

Problem is that stuff can kill you within the time it takes to do 1 heavy attack.

ie. take one of the current cheese builds: reverb into ransack+tremorscale+viper+implosion and you're looking at over 20k damage versus medium armor coming from a "defensive" weapon spec line

Game is fracked... always these huge and massive changes every DLC and no small fixes in between, not even when they clearly F'up the game... when will they learn that combat design on paper with some mediocre small scale internal testing is nothing like the live server. Balance would be so much better if they just made small incremental changes every week.... but we're stuck with the ZOS delivery strategy and an apparently incompetent combat design team/lead sigh...

Zyrudin · April 2017

Just adding a thought here: won't forcing player to make sure they use at least one good sustain set alongside a more role-oriented set, count as a sort of a return of the soft caps we had in the beginning?

I agree with the arguments presented by OP, in that they will affect the game as it is now and that there is a lack of actual balance between the classes. However, the other side of it is that it will reduce the "speed" of dps and hps and may make the game a more tactical affair in a group. Given the current state of the group finder, I am not sure it will be that good of an idea to run with randoms anymore, but that's a different issue.

I mean, currently, certain builds can put out a ridiculous amount of dps only because they have nearly infinite sustain avenues, even soloing. I predict that this will change and that content that had become a walk in the park for some will be a challenge again.

I still think the changes are unbalanced, though. I mean, thinking about stam vs mag: stam player has to halt recovery while blocking, has to waste their own resource while dodging, but there is no halt for magicka recovery while shields are up for instance, nor a passive that states that roll dodging or blocking will waste magicka instead (except for the ice staff passive). With all the stam nerfs, mag is simply getting more and more relevant - and they already were preferable.

sneakymitchell · April 2017

@crusnik91 I will adapt to may DK. I use drinks in pvp just like every other build should do in pvp. But if ur in a Zerg go ahead eat some food cause ur zerging! PVP should be more focused on trying to get enough resource in u without pumping in a lot of stam and say hey look at me with 40k stam and what not. We need this type of balance. It's not like they will get rid of battle roar and helping hands and put some crappy 5% cost reduction. And u will get little more magicka as a stam and more using helping hands and same goes to magicka DK. That's why whips are 10% cost reduction. We need more skill play in the game and smart decision choice between food or drinks. And even in combat (but if ur in a Zerg it's whatever). And also I got no points in warlord and doing fine using little tenacity and little mooncaf. And with redguard nerf with their passive. I was like yes tired facing substain race all the time.

crusnik91 · April 2017

sneakymitchell wrote: »

@crusnik91 I will adapt to may DK. I use drinks in pvp just like every other build should do in pvp. But if ur in a Zerg go ahead eat some food cause ur zerging! PVP should be more focused on trying to get enough resource in u without pumping in a lot of stam and say hey look at me with 40k stam and what not. We need this type of balance. It's not like they will get rid of battle roar and helping hands and put some crappy 5% cost reduction. And u will get little more magicka as a stam and more using helping hands and same goes to magicka DK. That's why whips are 10% cost reduction. We need more skill play in the game and smart decision choice between food or drinks. And even in combat (but if ur in a Zerg it's whatever). And also I got no points in warlord and doing fine using little tenacity and little mooncaf. And with redguard nerf with their passive. I was like yes tired facing substain race all the time.

every class has tons of natural ways for sustaining like I mention on the list before. Not only your so called 'crappy 5%reduction'. and yet 5% is really decent on sorcs since u have dark deal and 10% extra mag regen. for your information dark deal recovers 5k to 6k stamina per use and that is almost the same as battle roar. Don't forget battle roar requires you to use an ulti and dark deal just cost magicka.
If ZOS implement this nerf to DKs then it leaves sustaining on stam DK way way harder comparing to other classes. [especially when u are fighting outnumbered in fights and not against potatoes on consoles. Just saying]

crusnik91 · April 2017

Zyrudin wrote: »

Just adding a thought here: won't forcing player to make sure they use at least one good sustain set alongside a more role-oriented set, count as a sort of a return of the soft caps we had in the beginning?

I agree with the arguments presented by OP, in that they will affect the game as it is now and that there is a lack of actual balance between the classes. However, the other side of it is that it will reduce the "speed" of dps and hps and may make the game a more tactical affair in a group. Given the current state of the group finder, I am not sure it will be that good of an idea to run with randoms anymore, but that's a different issue.

I mean, currently, certain builds can put out a ridiculous amount of dps only because they have nearly infinite sustain avenues, even soloing. I predict that this will change and that content that had become a walk in the park for some will be a challenge again.

I still think the changes are unbalanced, though. I mean, thinking about stam vs mag: stam player has to halt recovery while blocking, has to waste their own resource while dodging, but there is no halt for magicka recovery while shields are up for instance, nor a passive that states that roll dodging or blocking will waste magicka instead (except for the ice staff passive). With all the stam nerfs, mag is simply getting more and more relevant - and they already were preferable.

exactly!

idk · April 2017

Zyrudin wrote: »

Just adding a thought here: won't forcing player to make sure they use at least one good sustain set alongside a more role-oriented set, count as a sort of a return of the soft caps we had in the beginning?

I agree with the arguments presented by OP, in that they will affect the game as it is now and that there is a lack of actual balance between the classes. However, the other side of it is that it will reduce the "speed" of dps and hps and may make the game a more tactical affair in a group. Given the current state of the group finder, I am not sure it will be that good of an idea to run with randoms anymore, but that's a different issue.

I mean, currently, certain builds can put out a ridiculous amount of dps only because they have nearly infinite sustain avenues, even soloing. I predict that this will change and that content that had become a walk in the park for some will be a challenge again.

I still think the changes are unbalanced, though. I mean, thinking about stam vs mag: stam player has to halt recovery while blocking, has to waste their own resource while dodging, but there is no halt for magicka recovery while shields are up for instance, nor a passive that states that roll dodging or blocking will waste magicka instead (except for the ice staff passive). With all the stam nerfs, mag is simply getting more and more relevant - and they already were preferable.

I think the statement of having to wear a sustain set will not be needed.

Those of us that have played the game for awhile remember when CP was introduced. Our sustain has dropped significantly and we started wearing one cost reduction glyph on hewelry. We may need more than one but still probably the better way to go than a sustain set.

crusnik91 · April 2017

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fKUBXt4DIOQ
really solid analysis from @Alcast
only a very few things like pirate skeleton, troll king, Siphoner (RIDICULOUS CP TREE) & Bastion (STILL AT 25%?!!!!!!) were not mention. But all in all very good straight to the point video!

melloni_aleb16_ESO · April 2017

sneakymitchell wrote: »

@crusnik91 My question is do u heavy attack? Now players need to put points in tenacity in order to substain. U will survive with the nerf. Just heavy attack weave more often. Every player don't use heavy attacks they rather light attack and substain most the time. Or if not use one hand shield bash light attack and use a skill or whatever combo they have. We need this type of smart play in the game. And use pots every time but mostly when needed.

It's not a heavy attack problem ( Which is also another stamina past-nerf ), the changes make the dk stamina unplayable... I agree with Crescent ( good report )

sneakymitchell · April 2017

@crusnik91 Well u can still try to substain its just that everyone will have trouble substain. It's not a nerf to solo builds mostly to everyone.

Korah_Eaglecry · April 2017

How cute that Alcast thinks ZOS is going to implement serious changes to their intended Morrowind Patch. Has this guy been playing the same game?

crusnik91 · April 2017

melloni_aleb16_ESO wrote: »

sneakymitchell wrote: »

@crusnik91 My question is do u heavy attack? Now players need to put points in tenacity in order to substain. U will survive with the nerf. Just heavy attack weave more often. Every player don't use heavy attacks they rather light attack and substain most the time. Or if not use one hand shield bash light attack and use a skill or whatever combo they have. We need this type of smart play in the game. And use pots every time but mostly when needed.

It's not a heavy attack problem ( Which is also another stamina past-nerf ), the changes make the dk stamina unplayable... I agree with Crescent ( good report )

yup. players who actually play their class at the highest level will know the pros and cons of the class. And with this nerfs DK can't compete with others at all. Plain simple as that

ljb2k5_ESO · April 2017

crusnik91 wrote: »

sneakymitchell wrote: »

@crusnik91 My question is do u heavy attack? Now players need to put points in tenacity in order to substain. U will survive with the nerf. Just heavy attack weave more often. Every player don't use heavy attacks they rather light attack and substain most the time. Or if not use one hand shield bash light attack and use a skill or whatever combo they have. We need this type of smart play in the game. And use pots every time but mostly when needed.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=snWLqD6r7Kg
I do a lot of heavy attacks if I am not under too much pressure in outnumbered fights.
The nerf is too much simple as that. I can accept the nerf to ALL cost reduction from CP but the nerfs to DK's resource gaining passive is totally unnecessary.

- Mag Templar has minor magicka steal + rune focus + Restoring Spirit Passive(Reduces Magicka, Stamina and Ultimate ability costs by 4%)
- Stam Templar has repentence passive&active + Restoring Spirit Passive(Reduces Magicka, Stamina and Ultimate ability costs by 4%)
- Mag Sorcerer has Unholy Knowledge passive(5%mag and stamina reduction) + Capacitor passive (10% Mag recovery) + Dark Exchange (OP resource skill for morrowind) - CRAZY SUSTAIN
- Stam Sorcerer has Unholy Knowledge passive(5%mag and stamina reduction) + Dark Exchange (OP resource skill for morrowind)
- Mag Nightblade has Siphoning Strikes (even if it is nerfed) + Refreshing shadow passive(Increases Stamina, Health and Magicka Regeneration by 15%)
- Stam Nightblade has Siphoning Strikes (even if it is nerfed) + Refreshing shadow passive(Increases Stamina, Health and Magicka Regeneration by 15%) + relentless focus (8% stam regen)

This is the list of untouched sustain skills and passive from other classes.
Why only nerf DK and leave out all other classes. DK doesn't even have any passive for cost reduction or any sort of recovery. The only way to sustain is to rely on helping hands & battle roar. With both of them gone, stam skills costing more, cost reduction gone, vigor cost increase, siphoner introduction and redguard nerf, yes I dare say even the best DKs will face BIG TIME sustain issues

I agree, at the very least they should have just done the CP based changes and tested to see what more would be needed. But then again, if sustain was an issue in PVP for the most part, and campaigns and BG's can turn them off or have them off by default, for whom was it still an issue? I think they changed way too many variables and are going to go overboard the other way, creating stamina drought instead, and because they changed so much, they won't be able to go back and pin down which changes caused the problem and should be reverted. It just wreaks of sloppy balancing, rushed and imprecise.