Target Skeleton DPS Score

Sargentwilko51 · April 2017

tplink3r1 wrote: »

Talvorian wrote: »

deepseamk20b14_ESO wrote: »

Talvorian wrote: »

You guys all know that animation cancelling isnt a thing in pve right? Like, it doesnt speed up rotations but fractions of seconds over minutes of rotation...

False.

Prove it.. lol... and ask any end game raider. in reality, the ONLY time an animation cancel helps with ANYTHING is when you barswap...

Talk to them, get informed.. they will all say... naw, it doesnt speed anything up.. but i am blocking alot so i take less damage...

Truth hurts the uninformed...

You made the negative claim, so you are the one with the burden of proof. But i know you can't btw.

True. LOL.. but you can't change people's minds when they are convinced that something exists that doesn't...

I am not saying there is anything wrong with block cancelling at all. If you do it and are really good at it, keep doing it. It does increase survivability in high damage situations for sure.

But I am saying that if you do the same rotation (even something so basic as spam the 5 same skills), one with cancelling and one without, you will see ZERO difference in time. Provided you hit all your light weaves, the damage will be the same as well (excluding allowances for crits).

WarpigFunk · April 2017

Talvorian wrote: »

WarpigFunk wrote: »

My credible source is myself ... block canceling LL, Wall, and curse is the difference between being on my back bar for 3+ seconds and being on it for 1-2 seconds. It will add roughly 3-4k dps over the course of a 3m hp rotation test (for me). It also means I can stay on rakkhat while he jumps, and have my dots down on the next pad before he lands.

That said - I'm always willing to learn and get better with regard to DPS - And I freely admit that my experience and thoughts on this may be wrong ...

I'd be happy to hear from anyone (particularly magsorc DDs) that are hitting over 44k consistently on target skellies, to know:
1. If they are hitting those numbers without block canceling anything
2. How they're rotation is set up
3. How they are LA canceling liquid lightning and wall to get DoTs to lay down near instantaneously.

That is without sarcasm and with all due humility -

All I know, is I consistently hit 40k DPS, and I run the toughest trial content in the game ... and I block cancel stuff.
And I'm very open to getting my DPS numbers up over 45k. I feel I have the gear to do it - just not the information and skill.

I have found this (not trying to be snarky or anything.. being genuine)...

after having to conduct and observe hundreds of DPS tests as the GM of an end game guild, ani cancelling doesnt do anything.

Those times you speak of? Those, me bet, are all going to be with a vma sharp lightning staff on the back bar, running a pet, using a very basic pet rotation. Its not hard at all to hit 44k (or higher) with the proper gear and setup that way (and CP of course).

The simple act of using a lighting blockade will add over 4500 dps to a consistent magic sorc that is pulling 40k

The absolute best parse that I am aware of on a sorc on console using a true raid setup (flame wall on back bar) is attacko. If i recall correctly, that parse was over 41k. really, anything higher than that is using a lightning wall, pet or combination of the two (or other raid buffs).

and im pretty sure he just posted a 63k+ with full raid buffs...

@Attackopsn

From what I'm told and i could be getting erroneous info - Like I said - I'm very open to learning here....
but, I've been told that Attacko and Olajuwan are both hitting over 48 ... Olajuwan does it using dual MD infernos ...
I've also been told that both are block canceling front bar skills. I'd be interested to hear from either of them directly on it.
I'll try to hit up Attacko next time I'm on and see whats up - he's in one of my guilds.

63k single target with raid buffs would very likely translate into a non-raid buff parse over 45.

I've tested a magsorc who hits consistent 42k with my healer giving him SPC, Combat Prayer, Warhorn, Worms, Drain, and PoL ... and he hit something like 52k using dual lightning staffs. 63k is bananas high. Granted he had a magdk buffing and infernos - but still.

Bottom line I seem to have a hit a wall at around 40k (note I do not have a sharpened VMA staff or a Moondancer Lightning staff) - and the guys I've spoken to that I know run consistently over 44k tell me they block cancel.

Solo I generally run 5 pc Necro / 2 pc ilambris all optimal traits - Gold moondancer neck, 1 gold ring, 1 purple ring. Moondancer inferno front bar , Precise VMA Lightning back bar.

In trials I swap out the back bar staff for a random sharpened inferno.

Sargentwilko51 · April 2017

WarpigFunk wrote: »

Talvorian wrote: »

WarpigFunk wrote: »

My credible source is myself ... block canceling LL, Wall, and curse is the difference between being on my back bar for 3+ seconds and being on it for 1-2 seconds. It will add roughly 3-4k dps over the course of a 3m hp rotation test (for me). It also means I can stay on rakkhat while he jumps, and have my dots down on the next pad before he lands.

That said - I'm always willing to learn and get better with regard to DPS - And I freely admit that my experience and thoughts on this may be wrong ...

I'd be happy to hear from anyone (particularly magsorc DDs) that are hitting over 44k consistently on target skellies, to know:
1. If they are hitting those numbers without block canceling anything
2. How they're rotation is set up
3. How they are LA canceling liquid lightning and wall to get DoTs to lay down near instantaneously.

That is without sarcasm and with all due humility -

All I know, is I consistently hit 40k DPS, and I run the toughest trial content in the game ... and I block cancel stuff.
And I'm very open to getting my DPS numbers up over 45k. I feel I have the gear to do it - just not the information and skill.

I have found this (not trying to be snarky or anything.. being genuine)...

after having to conduct and observe hundreds of DPS tests as the GM of an end game guild, ani cancelling doesnt do anything.

Those times you speak of? Those, me bet, are all going to be with a vma sharp lightning staff on the back bar, running a pet, using a very basic pet rotation. Its not hard at all to hit 44k (or higher) with the proper gear and setup that way (and CP of course).

The simple act of using a lighting blockade will add over 4500 dps to a consistent magic sorc that is pulling 40k

The absolute best parse that I am aware of on a sorc on console using a true raid setup (flame wall on back bar) is attacko. If i recall correctly, that parse was over 41k. really, anything higher than that is using a lightning wall, pet or combination of the two (or other raid buffs).

and im pretty sure he just posted a 63k+ with full raid buffs...

@Attackopsn

From what I'm told and i could be getting erroneous info - Like I said - I'm very open to learning here....
but, I've been told that Attacko and Olajuwan are both hitting over 48 ... Olajuwan does it using dual MD infernos ...
I've also been told that both are block canceling front bar skills. I'd be interested to hear from either of them directly on it.
I'll try to hit up Attacko next time I'm on and see whats up - he's in one of my guilds.

63k single target with raid buffs would very likely translate into a non-raid buff parse over 45.

I've tested a magsorc who hits consistent 42k with my healer giving him SPC, Combat Prayer, Warhorn, Worms, Drain, and PoL ... and he hit something like 52k using dual lightning staffs. 63k is bananas high. Granted he had a magdk buffing and infernos - but still.

Bottom line I seem to have a hit a wall at around 40k (note I do not have a sharpened VMA staff or a Moondancer Lightning staff) - and the guys I've spoken to that I know run consistently over 44k tell me they block cancel.

Solo I generally run 5 pc Necro / 2 pc ilambris all optimal traits - Gold moondancer neck, 1 gold ring, 1 purple ring. Moondancer inferno front bar , Precise VMA Lightning back bar.

In trials I swap out the back bar staff for a random sharpened inferno.

Yeah, the gear sounds right. And with lightning staves, those numbers are all within alignment of the best players on the server.

When I run my pet sorc build with 2 ilam, 5 necro, moon light front and sharp vma flame back, its around 41k.

When you pop on a lightning staff, you pop up to 46k. its just the difference that lightning wall makes by activating the exploiter passive by yourself.

Block cancelling isn't why they are up there. Now, for sure, they are in the habit of block cancelling and that works for them for the gcd and timing of their skills and there is nothing wrong with that at all.

They are not at 46k+ because they block cancel... they are at 46k+ because they know their rotation inside out, upside down, frontwards and backwards

Rataroto · April 2017

As far as Animaton canceling goes, Paul explained just fine.
Now for the test itself, and note that I'm part of HIgh End content guilds.
The "Major debuff of your choice" is allowed to be ON the skelleton 100% of the time, as in a realistic fight it would be part of tank's job to keep agro, thus applying that debuff. For stamina classes its Major Fracture, better given by a nightblade with mark target. For magicka its Major Breach, better given by ANYONE who has Elemental Drain (Weakness to Elements) skill under destruction staff. As far as sustain goes, Magicka balls and Shards are allowed, tho shards is a little harder to swallow, because stamina management is so pathetic at the moment. Any other buffs or debuffs are NOT allowed for a "self buffed parse". Fully buffed parses are not taken by the grand majority of the guilds because buffed is so relative. Some guilds go a step further to ask for 100% self buffed, so magicka peeps need to cast ele drain themselfs, however this is very rare given that magicka can't sustain 3 milion damage without help to manage resources (rip them), appart from nightblades of course lol.

I myself hold a 44.9k parse on a 3 Million Skelleton, on a Stamina Nightblade, having the target being marked by another nightblade. Using Two-Fanged Snake x5, Velidreth x2, Roar of Alkosh x3, Maelstrom Bow, Axe, Dagger Sharpened x3.

Vaoh · April 2017

WarpigFunk wrote: »

Talvorian wrote: »

deepseamk20b14_ESO wrote: »

Talvorian wrote: »

You guys all know that animation cancelling isnt a thing in pve right? Like, it doesnt speed up rotations but fractions of seconds over minutes of rotation...

False.

Prove it.. lol... and ask any end game raider. in reality, the ONLY time an animation cancel helps with ANYTHING is when you barswap...

Talk to them, get informed.. they will all say... naw, it doesnt speed anything up.. but i am blocking alot so i take less damage...

Truth hurts the uninformed...

This is incorrect. I can only speak for magsorcs here, but I block cancel all my back bar skills. and I light attack cancel all my front bar skills.
I also block cancel executes.

And I know 3 sorcs on PS4 NA that hit in the 46-49k DPS range that tell me they block cancel their front bar skills as well. I'm just currently incapable of doing this reliably. So I am plateau'd at 39-41k DPS (depending on frag procs).
I generally get 5 force pulse weaves between every DoT rotation. These other guys get 7-8 weaves. That comes from extremely proficient ani-canceling technique.

2 of the above referenced sorcs are dro'mathra destroyers and top leaderboards in vma - the other is currently leading one of my hardmode progression teams ... so, yea ... endgame raiders.

Remember that each skill has a Global Cooldown (GCD) of 1 second. You can only get off so many skills in a given period of time, regardless of how perfect you animation cancel skills via block/dodge roll/weapon swap.

There are multiple Mag Sorc rotations that are viable right now, depending on your build, but you should always light attack cancel between every skill cast.

I think I know at least one of the Mag Sorcs you refer to for sure. All of them are def great players though.

Vaoh · April 2017

If you want to pull high DPS, you'll need to follow a good rotation and have high CP+strong gear. Your rotation is most important though.

Tankerbells · April 2017

On a target dummy- a sorc should be able to pull an average of ~20K DPS and should have no trouble killing the dummy in under 5 minutes. This is without having a tank standing next to the dummy- debuffing it with a taunt thru-out combat. If there's a tank there taunting- you should be pulling an average of ~25K to ~30K. That's the output texted to chat by the dummy- once the battle is finished. This is with ~300 CP points, and all purple gear.

Also- you're supposed to be using the dummy that has 3m health- not the robust target dummy with 6m health. The standard "DPS" test used to consist of using vet "Spindleclutch II" Bloodspawn boss- who has 3m health, doesn't move a lot- the tank tanks, healer heals, and DPS is the only one to kill the boss... Life / Time = DPS

kylewwefan · April 2017

Excaltic wrote: »

I get about 17k with a 600CP StamSorc sustained, if I wanted to get any -SERIOUS- damage increase I would have to use:

- Animation Cancelling, which I won't since I refuse to use game exploits.

The end...

Explanation:
- Pure Bloodthirst spam = 12k dps

- Blood Craze = 2.5k dps & takes 2 second to cast (2 casts per 15 seconds) without animation cancelling -> 24k damage lost (skill cast), 15 seconds x 2.5k dps = 37.5k damage -> 37.5-24 = 13.5 / 15 seconds = 0.9k damage/sec dps increase

- Hurricane = 2k dps &, takes 1 second to cast without animation cancelling -> 12k damage lost (buff cast), 15 seconds x 2k dps = 30k damage -> 30-12 = 18 / 15 seconds = 1.2k damage/sec dps increase

- Quick Cloak = 1.2k dps &, takes 1 second to cast without animation cancelling -> 12k damage lost (buff cast), 15 seconds x 1.2k dps = 18k damage -> 18-12 = 6 / 15 seconds = 0.4k damage/sec dps increase

- Calltrops = 1.5k dps, takes 1 second to cast without animation cancelling -> 6k damage lost (buff cast), 30 seconds x 1.5k dps = 45k dps -> 45-6 = 39 / 30 seconds = 1.3 damage/sec dps increase

- Grothdarr = 2k dps, takes 0 second to cast -> 0k damage lost (triggered automatically), 5 seconds x 2k dps = 2k dps @ 50% uptime = 1k damage/sec dps increase

Total DPS:
Pure Bloodthirst = 12k dps
Blood Craze = 0.9k dps increase
Hurricane = 1.2k dps increase
Quick Cloak = 0.4k dps increase
Calltrops = 1.3k dps increase
Grothdarr = 1k dps increase

12+0.9+1.2+0.4+1.3+1 = 16.8k

Total DPS is 17k (including glyph procs) and DPS on 25% health or less targets is about 26k

I know I could use other skill lines (bow) gear and skill morphs (non self healing), but that would only add like 2~3k dps and would be suicide in console pug groups...

Animation cancelling would boost my dps with about 10k, which is ***, and the devs know this, the people who use animation cancelling know this too but defend using exploits with "L2P"... It's sad... I know...

A simple fix for the devs would be to remove all delays from non-main DPS skills (Buffs and Dot's) to get a balanced playing field. But I guess this will never happen because of the "pro" people defending their "L2P" argument to have an unfair DPS advantage in both PvP and PvE...

My advice would be, don't care about your DPS that much, and enjoy the rest of the game...

Hold down the heavy attack trigger soon as you use rapid strikes. It wil charge up and fire off as soon as the ani is done. Then do it again.

CultOfMMO · April 2017

Excaltic wrote: »

I get about 17k with a 600CP StamSorc sustained, if I wanted to get any -SERIOUS- damage increase I would have to use:

- Animation Cancelling, which I won't since I refuse to use game exploits.

The end...

Explanation:
- Pure Bloodthirst spam = 12k dps

- Blood Craze = 2.5k dps & takes 2 second to cast (2 casts per 15 seconds) without animation cancelling -> 24k damage lost (skill cast), 15 seconds x 2.5k dps = 37.5k damage -> 37.5-24 = 13.5 / 15 seconds = 0.9k damage/sec dps increase

- Hurricane = 2k dps &, takes 1 second to cast without animation cancelling -> 12k damage lost (buff cast), 15 seconds x 2k dps = 30k damage -> 30-12 = 18 / 15 seconds = 1.2k damage/sec dps increase

- Quick Cloak = 1.2k dps &, takes 1 second to cast without animation cancelling -> 12k damage lost (buff cast), 15 seconds x 1.2k dps = 18k damage -> 18-12 = 6 / 15 seconds = 0.4k damage/sec dps increase

- Calltrops = 1.5k dps, takes 1 second to cast without animation cancelling -> 6k damage lost (buff cast), 30 seconds x 1.5k dps = 45k dps -> 45-6 = 39 / 30 seconds = 1.3 damage/sec dps increase

- Grothdarr = 2k dps, takes 0 second to cast -> 0k damage lost (triggered automatically), 5 seconds x 2k dps = 2k dps @ 50% uptime = 1k damage/sec dps increase

Total DPS:
Pure Bloodthirst = 12k dps
Blood Craze = 0.9k dps increase
Hurricane = 1.2k dps increase
Quick Cloak = 0.4k dps increase
Calltrops = 1.3k dps increase
Grothdarr = 1k dps increase

12+0.9+1.2+0.4+1.3+1 = 16.8k

Total DPS is 17k (including glyph procs) and DPS on 25% health or less targets is about 26k

I know I could use other skill lines (bow) gear and skill morphs (non self healing), but that would only add like 2~3k dps and would be suicide in console pug groups...

Animation cancelling would boost my dps with about 10k, which is ***, and the devs know this, the people who use animation cancelling know this too but defend using exploits with "L2P"... It's sad... I know...

A simple fix for the devs would be to remove all delays from non-main DPS skills (Buffs and Dot's) to get a balanced playing field. But I guess this will never happen because of the "pro" people defending their "L2P" argument to have an unfair DPS advantage in both PvP and PvE...

My advice would be, don't care about your DPS that much, and enjoy the rest of the game...

@Excaltic

this is pathetic on so many levels...

firstly, animation canceling is not an exploit, I wouldn't know better than you do, it's the Dev's themselves who declared it. Learn it, and love it.

secondly, animation cancel wouldnt increase your dps by 10k

last but not least, even if it did increase your dps by 10k, you are still no where near even half decent damage, let alone quote and quote SERIOUS damage

but okay at least we agree on there are other things in this game people can enjoy

Tankerbells · April 2017

Excaltic wrote: »

A simple fix for the devs would be to remove all delays from non-main DPS skills (Buffs and Dot's) to get a balanced playing field. But I guess this will never happen because of the "pro" people defending their "L2P" argument to have an unfair DPS advantage in both PvP and PvE...

That's sorta funny- so when someone has learned to do something that you havn't learned how to do yet- it's an unfair exploit/glitch. It's not an advantage- if everybody can do it, and most do.

Shad0wfire99 · April 2017

CultOfMMO wrote: »

Excaltic wrote: »

I get about 17k with a 600CP StamSorc sustained, if I wanted to get any -SERIOUS- damage increase I would have to use:

- Animation Cancelling, which I won't since I refuse to use game exploits.

The end...

Explanation:
- Pure Bloodthirst spam = 12k dps

- Blood Craze = 2.5k dps & takes 2 second to cast (2 casts per 15 seconds) without animation cancelling -> 24k damage lost (skill cast), 15 seconds x 2.5k dps = 37.5k damage -> 37.5-24 = 13.5 / 15 seconds = 0.9k damage/sec dps increase

- Hurricane = 2k dps &, takes 1 second to cast without animation cancelling -> 12k damage lost (buff cast), 15 seconds x 2k dps = 30k damage -> 30-12 = 18 / 15 seconds = 1.2k damage/sec dps increase

- Quick Cloak = 1.2k dps &, takes 1 second to cast without animation cancelling -> 12k damage lost (buff cast), 15 seconds x 1.2k dps = 18k damage -> 18-12 = 6 / 15 seconds = 0.4k damage/sec dps increase

- Calltrops = 1.5k dps, takes 1 second to cast without animation cancelling -> 6k damage lost (buff cast), 30 seconds x 1.5k dps = 45k dps -> 45-6 = 39 / 30 seconds = 1.3 damage/sec dps increase

- Grothdarr = 2k dps, takes 0 second to cast -> 0k damage lost (triggered automatically), 5 seconds x 2k dps = 2k dps @ 50% uptime = 1k damage/sec dps increase

Total DPS:
Pure Bloodthirst = 12k dps
Blood Craze = 0.9k dps increase
Hurricane = 1.2k dps increase
Quick Cloak = 0.4k dps increase
Calltrops = 1.3k dps increase
Grothdarr = 1k dps increase

12+0.9+1.2+0.4+1.3+1 = 16.8k

Total DPS is 17k (including glyph procs) and DPS on 25% health or less targets is about 26k

I know I could use other skill lines (bow) gear and skill morphs (non self healing), but that would only add like 2~3k dps and would be suicide in console pug groups...

Animation cancelling would boost my dps with about 10k, which is ***, and the devs know this, the people who use animation cancelling know this too but defend using exploits with "L2P"... It's sad... I know...

A simple fix for the devs would be to remove all delays from non-main DPS skills (Buffs and Dot's) to get a balanced playing field. But I guess this will never happen because of the "pro" people defending their "L2P" argument to have an unfair DPS advantage in both PvP and PvE...

My advice would be, don't care about your DPS that much, and enjoy the rest of the game...

@Excaltic

this is pathetic on so many levels...

firstly, animation canceling is not an exploit, I wouldn't know better than you do, it's the Dev's themselves who declared it. Learn it, and love it.

secondly, animation cancel wouldnt increase your dps by 10k

last but not least, even if it did increase your dps by 10k, you are still no where near even half decent damage, let alone quote and quote SERIOUS damage

but okay at least we agree on there are other things in this game people can enjoy

You forgot to mention Grothdarr on a StamSorc.

Artis · April 2017

Avran_Sylt wrote: »

It is the score that use from target skeletons, yes. It is in part because of "bug" turned "feature" (which I have no problem with), but is moreso due to constant application of Damage over Time (DoT) spells used with a main spammable.

Think of it like this:

You find your highest damage instant cast ability, and you light weave into that ability constantly. That gives you a baseline.

Next, what you want to do is find skills whose DoT damage is greater than that spammable. you put that into rotation, because even if the initial application isn't as strong as the main spammable, its DoT makes up for it. So it goes DoT -> Spammable -> .... -> DoT Reapplication -> Spammable -> ..... etc. etc.

The more DoTs you use, the more your create a "Skill rotation" That applies and refreshes your Dots while plugging in the Spammable when all your DoTs are active, and weaving the entire time.

Target Skeletons provide an optimal environment for this "rotation" on a single target. Allowing the player to see their max output. In actual practice in trials and whatnot your DPS is not going to be as high, having to deal with mechanics and such, or it could be even higher with multiple adds multiplying that AoE DPS.

Your DPS is supposed to be higher in trials because of adds and group buffs/debuffs.

Talvorian wrote: »

deepseamk20b14_ESO wrote: »

Talvorian wrote: »

You guys all know that animation cancelling isnt a thing in pve right? Like, it doesnt speed up rotations but fractions of seconds over minutes of rotation...

False.

Prove it.. lol... and ask any end game raider. in reality, the ONLY time an animation cancel helps with ANYTHING is when you barswap...

Talk to them, get informed.. they will all say... naw, it doesnt speed anything up.. but i am blocking alot so i take less damage...

Truth hurts the uninformed...

I am an endgame raider. Yes, animation cancelling is the thing in trials. You animation cancel light attack with every skill to boost your DPS. It doesn't speed up the skills,no, but it does basically add a free light attack to every skill.

WarpigFunk wrote: »

And I know 3 sorcs on PS4 NA that hit in the 46-49k DPS range that tell me they block cancel their front bar skills as well. I'm just currently incapable of doing this reliably. So I am plateau'd at 39-41k DPS (depending on frag procs).
I generally get 5 force pulse weaves between every DoT rotation. These other guys get 7-8 weaves. That comes from extremely proficient ani-canceling technique.

2 of the above referenced sorcs are dro'mathra destroyers and top leaderboards in vma - the other is currently leading one of my hardmode progression teams ... so, yea ... endgame raiders.

You shouldn't block cast, instead, weave your backbar skills and executes with light attacks. Block canceling won't do anything, you can't be faster than GCD.

tplink3r1 wrote: »

Talvorian wrote: »

deepseamk20b14_ESO wrote: »

Talvorian wrote: »

You guys all know that animation cancelling isnt a thing in pve right? Like, it doesnt speed up rotations but fractions of seconds over minutes of rotation...

False.

Prove it.. lol... and ask any end game raider. in reality, the ONLY time an animation cancel helps with ANYTHING is when you barswap...

Talk to them, get informed.. they will all say... naw, it doesnt speed anything up.. but i am blocking alot so i take less damage...

Truth hurts the uninformed...

You made the negative claim, so you are the one with the burden of proof. But i know you can't btw.

Lol that's the opposite of how the burden of proof works. You have to prove an affirmative claim. The negative claim is considered to be true by default.

Attackopsn · April 2017

I think the highest I've done with only elemental drain and worm cult provided by a healer was around 43k. I wouldn't spend too much time crediting too many variables to differences of 1-2k dps between 41k and 43k on a 3m test because the fight is so short that often 1 second can equate to 1k dps difference or so. This was done with Necro, Illambris, 4 MD, and a back bar VMA Sharpened. Block Casting abilities like Force Pulse for example doesn't actually do anything to your dps because of GCD, meaning that there is a mandatory wait between the first LA/FP you did and the next LA/FP, that being 0.9~1s. Personally out of paranoia, I will usually attempt to ensure that I am block cancelling Liquid Lightning and Wall of Elements because I believe they come quite close to that GCD, but I do not have proof that this actually makes a difference. Beyond that, you only need to cancel abilities on bar swaps. I saw something about players claiming they can block cancel in a way that is allowing them to produce a greater quantity of main bar weaves before their back bar dots need to be refreshed. This simply isn't true, and should be ignored. The only rotation that uses 7-8 weaves on the main bar is the simplified ranged/no pet rotation that uses haunting curse. I imagine that may have been where some of the confusion came from.

Hope that helps!

Sargentwilko51 · April 2017

@Artis

You mention light attack cancel while using a skill....

Are you stating that you press a skill and hold down light attack and then release when the skill fires off?

If so, that is what I consider medium weaving and that is a big no-no for trial dps in the homestead meta...

it steals off-balance...

Attackopsn · April 2017

Also, sometimes I block cancel at the end of my abilities to reduce the damage I take from certain mechanics including damage or stuns such as the Stone Atronach in AA, Shehai in HRC, and Shield Phase on boss 1 in MoL

Artis · April 2017

Talvorian wrote: »

@Artis

You mention light attack cancel while using a skill....

Are you stating that you press a skill and hold down light attack and then release when the skill fires off?

If so, that is what I consider medium weaving and that is a big no-no for trial dps in the homestead meta...

it steals off-balance...

No, that's medium attack cancel and yes it steals off-balance. I'm talking about light attack weaving - it's when you click a light attack and then click a skill right away(Like someone explained - say "ka-boom" where "ka" is LMB/light attack and "boom" is a skill) without holding down the light attack.

Lynx7386 · April 2017

I got my best result a couple nights ago on my magicka dragonknight. With nobody else helping (used ele drain myself), I killed the robust Skeleton in exactly 5 minutes, which came out at just between 20k and 21k dps. I never ran out of magicka though, since my build has sustain through heavy attacks, so I could've kept up that level of damage indefinitely. All of my skills are also area damage abilities, so that would be on each target in a group.

I don't have vma weapons or trial gear yet, both of which add significantly to damage potential, so I could see 30-35k using my build with better gear.

Sn1per0 · April 2017

My StamSorc pulls 30k Solo (true solo not someone giving debuffs/shards/ect)

He runs 5 Sunderflame 5 nightmothers 2 valdreith.

I am curious to see what he pulls with some debuff help.

3mil skele.

Sargentwilko51 · April 2017

Artis wrote: »

Talvorian wrote: »

@Artis

You mention light attack cancel while using a skill....

Are you stating that you press a skill and hold down light attack and then release when the skill fires off?

If so, that is what I consider medium weaving and that is a big no-no for trial dps in the homestead meta...

it steals off-balance...

No, that's medium attack cancel and yes it steals off-balance. I'm talking about light attack weaving - it's when you click a light attack and then click a skill right away(Like someone explained - say "ka-boom" where "ka" is LMB/light attack and "boom" is a skill) without holding down the light attack.

Gotcha. Thats what i do. just wanted to make sure i understood what you were referring to. thanks

HuawaSepp · April 2017

I tested my mag DK with another mag Sorc. Only ele drain. Not the perfect gear and missing undaunted and mage guild passives.
With raid buffs you get 50-60k dps.
But that's not really hard to achive just drop your dots and spam your spammable in between. And with 12,6% dps weaving would not be wrong also

WarpigFunk · April 2017

Attackopsn wrote: »

I think the highest I've done with only elemental drain and worm cult provided by a healer was around 43k. I wouldn't spend too much time crediting too many variables to differences of 1-2k dps between 41k and 43k on a 3m test because the fight is so short that often 1 second can equate to 1k dps difference or so. This was done with Necro, Illambris, 4 MD, and a back bar VMA Sharpened. Block Casting abilities like Force Pulse for example doesn't actually do anything to your dps because of GCD, meaning that there is a mandatory wait between the first LA/FP you did and the next LA/FP, that being 0.9~1s. Personally out of paranoia, I will usually attempt to ensure that I am block cancelling Liquid Lightning and Wall of Elements because I believe they come quite close to that GCD, but I do not have proof that this actually makes a difference. Beyond that, you only need to cancel abilities on bar swaps. I saw something about players claiming they can block cancel in a way that is allowing them to produce a greater quantity of main bar weaves before their back bar dots need to be refreshed. This simply isn't true, and should be ignored. The only rotation that uses 7-8 weaves on the main bar is the simplified ranged/no pet rotation that uses haunting curse. I imagine that may have been where some of the confusion came from.

Hope that helps!

Thanks! That does help.
Yea there was some confusion - I'm sure on my part - I'd spoken with guys like Noobeh and Jedi and Darkmatter and became somehow convinced I needed to practice block canceling my force pulses, which has proven inordinately difficult. I already block cancel DoTs ... but I guess it seems going from where I'm at, at 40k to 43k is just a L2P matter, not necessarily a matter of different technique.

Splattercat_83 · April 2017

WarpigFunk wrote: »

Talvorian wrote: »

deepseamk20b14_ESO wrote: »

Talvorian wrote: »

You guys all know that animation cancelling isnt a thing in pve right? Like, it doesnt speed up rotations but fractions of seconds over minutes of rotation...

False.

Prove it.. lol... and ask any end game raider. in reality, the ONLY time an animation cancel helps with ANYTHING is when you barswap...

Talk to them, get informed.. they will all say... naw, it doesnt speed anything up.. but i am blocking alot so i take less damage...

Truth hurts the uninformed...

This is incorrect. I can only speak for magsorcs here, but I block cancel all my back bar skills. and I light attack cancel all my front bar skills.
I also block cancel executes.

And I know 3 sorcs on PS4 NA that hit in the 46-49k DPS range that tell me they block cancel their front bar skills as well. I'm just currently incapable of doing this reliably. So I am plateau'd at 39-41k DPS (depending on frag procs).
I generally get 5 force pulse weaves between every DoT rotation. These other guys get 7-8 weaves. That comes from extremely proficient ani-canceling technique.

2 of the above referenced sorcs are dro'mathra destroyers and top leaderboards in vma - the other is currently leading one of my hardmode progression teams ... so, yea ... endgame raiders.

I can get 7 just force pulse light weaving, the dots drop off after 7. I use 5 force pulse weaves to keep my dots up. Block canceling does not speed anything up. All it does is hinder your stam regen.

Ep1kMalware · April 2017

Excaltic wrote: »

I get about 17k with a 600CP StamSorc sustained, if I wanted to get any -SERIOUS- damage increase I would have to use:

- Animation Cancelling, which I won't since I refuse to use game exploits.

The end...

Explanation:
- Pure Bloodthirst spam = 12k dps

- Blood Craze = 2.5k dps & takes 2 second to cast (2 casts per 15 seconds) without animation cancelling -> 24k damage lost (skill cast), 15 seconds x 2.5k dps = 37.5k damage -> 37.5-24 = 13.5 / 15 seconds = 0.9k damage/sec dps increase

- Hurricane = 2k dps &, takes 1 second to cast without animation cancelling -> 12k damage lost (buff cast), 15 seconds x 2k dps = 30k damage -> 30-12 = 18 / 15 seconds = 1.2k damage/sec dps increase

- Quick Cloak = 1.2k dps &, takes 1 second to cast without animation cancelling -> 12k damage lost (buff cast), 15 seconds x 1.2k dps = 18k damage -> 18-12 = 6 / 15 seconds = 0.4k damage/sec dps increase

- Calltrops = 1.5k dps, takes 1 second to cast without animation cancelling -> 6k damage lost (buff cast), 30 seconds x 1.5k dps = 45k dps -> 45-6 = 39 / 30 seconds = 1.3 damage/sec dps increase

- Grothdarr = 2k dps, takes 0 second to cast -> 0k damage lost (triggered automatically), 5 seconds x 2k dps = 2k dps @ 50% uptime = 1k damage/sec dps increase

Total DPS:
Pure Bloodthirst = 12k dps
Blood Craze = 0.9k dps increase
Hurricane = 1.2k dps increase
Quick Cloak = 0.4k dps increase
Calltrops = 1.3k dps increase
Grothdarr = 1k dps increase

12+0.9+1.2+0.4+1.3+1 = 16.8k

Total DPS is 17k (including glyph procs) and DPS on 25% health or less targets is about 26k

I know I could use other skill lines (bow) gear and skill morphs (non self healing), but that would only add like 2~3k dps and would be suicide in console pug groups...

Animation cancelling would boost my dps with about 10k, which is ***, and the devs know this, the people who use animation cancelling know this too but defend using exploits with "L2P"... It's sad... I know...

A simple fix for the devs would be to remove all delays from non-main DPS skills (Buffs and Dot's) to get a balanced playing field. But I guess this will never happen because of the "pro" people defending their "L2P" argument to have an unfair DPS advantage in both PvP and PvE...

My advice would be, don't care about your DPS that much, and enjoy the rest of the game...

No it wouldnt. You just suck at dps. Cancelling won't get you anywhere, timely weaving will. Also grothdaar wha th(forget it, I quit).

Vipstaakki · April 2017

If animation cancelling is a feature then why have animation in the first place? Let's get rid of those and just have inanimate objects representing characters fight.

Mmmmrrrhhhh... All the salt

kalarro · April 2017

Where is that target skelleton please?

Izaki · April 2017

Vipstaakki wrote: »

They get it by abusing a bug called "Animation cancelling"

No one uses animation canceling in PvE rotations.

Unless you consider light attacks and bar swaps animation canceling.

GreenhaloX · April 2017

Come on, man.. AC is much as part of this game as nerfing. AC is what helps a high dpser high (no pun intended. I know there are a lot of 420ers in-game.) Ha ha.. and no, dps value is not so correct from a target dummy. Go fight something that fights back!

zaria · April 2017

kalarro wrote: »

Where is that target skelleton please?

You have to buy it from crown store or is some guild shops but its expensive.
Ask in guild lots of people have them and you can visit their house and use it.

Its very nice for training rotation and to test out new ones.

Izaki · April 2017

Excaltic wrote: »

I get about 17k with a 600CP StamSorc sustained, if I wanted to get any -SERIOUS- damage increase I would have to use:

- Animation Cancelling, which I won't since I refuse to use game exploits.

The end...

Explanation:
- Pure Bloodthirst spam = 12k dps

- Blood Craze = 2.5k dps & takes 2 second to cast (2 casts per 15 seconds) without animation cancelling -> 24k damage lost (skill cast), 15 seconds x 2.5k dps = 37.5k damage -> 37.5-24 = 13.5 / 15 seconds = 0.9k damage/sec dps increase

- Hurricane = 2k dps &, takes 1 second to cast without animation cancelling -> 12k damage lost (buff cast), 15 seconds x 2k dps = 30k damage -> 30-12 = 18 / 15 seconds = 1.2k damage/sec dps increase

- Quick Cloak = 1.2k dps &, takes 1 second to cast without animation cancelling -> 12k damage lost (buff cast), 15 seconds x 1.2k dps = 18k damage -> 18-12 = 6 / 15 seconds = 0.4k damage/sec dps increase

- Calltrops = 1.5k dps, takes 1 second to cast without animation cancelling -> 6k damage lost (buff cast), 30 seconds x 1.5k dps = 45k dps -> 45-6 = 39 / 30 seconds = 1.3 damage/sec dps increase

- Grothdarr = 2k dps, takes 0 second to cast -> 0k damage lost (triggered automatically), 5 seconds x 2k dps = 2k dps @ 50% uptime = 1k damage/sec dps increase

Total DPS:
Pure Bloodthirst = 12k dps
Blood Craze = 0.9k dps increase
Hurricane = 1.2k dps increase
Quick Cloak = 0.4k dps increase
Calltrops = 1.3k dps increase
Grothdarr = 1k dps increase

12+0.9+1.2+0.4+1.3+1 = 16.8k

Total DPS is 17k (including glyph procs) and DPS on 25% health or less targets is about 26k

I know I could use other skill lines (bow) gear and skill morphs (non self healing), but that would only add like 2~3k dps and would be suicide in console pug groups...

Animation cancelling would boost my dps with about 10k, which is ***, and the devs know this, the people who use animation cancelling know this too but defend using exploits with "L2P"... It's sad... I know...

A simple fix for the devs would be to remove all delays from non-main DPS skills (Buffs and Dot's) to get a balanced playing field. But I guess this will never happen because of the "pro" people defending their "L2P" argument to have an unfair DPS advantage in both PvP and PvE...

My advice would be, don't care about your DPS that much, and enjoy the rest of the game...

Just saying, this is a core part of the game. Take this situation for example: you are firing an attack, at you press the attack button you see an incoming projectile that will one shot you, you press roll dodge straight after you've pressed the attack button. You've just animation canceled. Or take this for example. You suddenly take a big hit while you are casting a skill, your healing spell is on your other bar, you bar swap to get to the other bar straight after pressing the attack button. You've just animation canceled. You cast a skill with a cast-time, you spam the buttom. You're animation canceling, because every skill with a cast time has a long follow through that gets canceled if you cast the skill again.

Animation canceling isn't an unfair advantage due to the fact that everyone can do it. Skills have a 1 second global cooldown, no matter what you do, no matter how hard you try to animation cancel that skill, your next skill can only go off 1 second later.

So animation canceling is not an exploit or a cheat, its simply the way that priorities and cooldowns work in order to ensure the smoothness of gameplay. Those same cooldowns and priorities can be applied in a different setting, for example damage dealing. This is what I'm doing here, and what many other people have learned to do through hours of practice. How can this be a cheat or an exploit? Is it an exploit when you need to heal yourself? Imagine the frustration where the whole animation of a skill would play out before you bar swap to your healing spell while you're on 2% health? That would make the game clunky. If its not an exploit in one situation, its not an exploit in another situation.

kalarro · April 2017

If I spam 1 skill, does it automaticly cancel the animation and cast as soon as possible?
If so (Im new to the game) I wouldnt even call it animation cancelling. Or at least not making it sound like some pro player skill.

If something else is required to "animation cancel" I'd agree it's an exploit. If it's just pressing the next skill.... thats how every mmo work. Beeing "stunned" while the animation ends would feel so clumsy, and a few games that have it are terrible

If on the other hand, you have to cancell it with something, like an autoattack, before beeing able to cast the next skill, that Id call an exploit. Im not saying it would be terrible hard, just saying that it makes logically no sense, so it looks like a technical exploit