Real AH Yet?

ManwithBeard9 · April 2017

Wait, isnt there an Auction House in Stonefalls? Specifically Davon's Watch, right by the writ boards?

idk · April 2017

Kiralyn2000 wrote: »

Well yeah - the system works for you. Of course you like it. I just think that an artificially-limited economy that excludes a portion of the playerbase is a shame. Sure, having a smaller playground to compete in helps the people doing the competing, but..... /shrug

(And even if you kept the system of limited/chosen sellers, it still sucks from a buyer's perspective, having to deal with this patchwork of vendors instead of a real market.)

@Kiralyn2000 A great many trade guilds have space all the time, though a few are full most of the time. With that being the case I do not see how anyone what is interested is excluded. The trade guild I am in often has some spaces and I do very well there.

So the statement that the system is limited falls on it's face.

Kiralyn2000 · April 2017

ManwithBeard9 wrote: »

Wait, isnt there an Auction House in Stonefalls? Specifically Davon's Watch, right by the writ boards?

That is a particular guild trader. It has just the goods offered for sale by the members of that one guild. There are dozens more of them scattered across all the zones, each one with different goods for sale.

ManwithBeard9 · April 2017

Kiralyn2000 wrote: »

ManwithBeard9 wrote: »

Wait, isnt there an Auction House in Stonefalls? Specifically Davon's Watch, right by the writ boards?

That is a particular guild trader. It has just the goods offered for sale by the members of that one guild. There are dozens more of them scattered across all the zones, each one with different goods for sale.

Aye, thats the joke.

DisgracefulMind · April 2017

Kiralyn2000 wrote: »

Enough with this debate, it's a dead horse issue. Need to learn to work with the system we have.

So I have some hypothetical situations that I'd like the market pros to educate me on.

1. Guy wants to sell one item a week. He's not looking to be a Super Trader or get absolute max profit. Just thinks it's a waste to vendor something for 9g when it could sell for 500-1000g. How does he do it?

2. Provisioner needs a bunch of one ingredient, let's say 200. He wants to get it for a good per-unit price. How does he do it?

3. Player is looking for a Particular Rare Item (there's maybe half a dozen or a dozen out there total). Again, he'd like to get the one for the best price. How does he do it?

Thanks for any assistance you can provide.

Answer to all three: Zone Chat

Gandrhulf_Harbard · April 2017

Vipstaakki wrote: »

We do not want the auction house. We want the guild traders. Deal. With. It.

There's no supporting evidence for the second part of that statement.

I don't want a Global AH - would not be right in this type of game.

But the current system IS. NOT. FIT. FOR. PURPOSE.

The current system could work with a few very simple changes.

1) Limit each Account to one Guild Trader.
2) Add in basic Search functions to Trade Kiosks.
3) In each Zone Capital add in a Free Trader so that people not in a Trade Guild can list a limited number of Items for sale.
4) Add a Market Advertising Board to each Zone Capital - have it work as a Zone Wide Search Function (only search, still have to go to the individual Kiosk to buy).

Reasons:
1) Will free up more slots so that more players can trade, and it WILL drive down Kiosk Prices for everyone. Prices are only so high because a relatively small number of high-end traders are in 2, 3, or even 4 trade guilds - thus denying up to three other players any access to the market.

2) Reasons - any game that can't deliver basic search functions needs to re-assess if it has competent people in key roles.

3) Gives a stepping-stone for people who currently don't trade at all because of lack of access (Note: There are NOT enough Kiosks in the game for every player to be able to trade, even if we assume each player only has access to ONE Kiosk). More overall sellers also lowers commodity prices, which will in turn lower Kiosk prices, thus giving the ingame economy a much needed, and long overdue price adjustment.

4) Even pre-modern markets had advertising so buyers knew where to go to get what they wanted.

Those four, relatively simple, steps would open up trade to many more people, make buying easier (thus increasing sales), offer a pathway to trade for players who currently do not engage with the current system at all.

The ONLY people who would not benefit significantly from these changes are the few traders who depend entirely on the cartel nature of the current system to deny consumers choice AND information; and anyone who needs a monopoly AND ignorant consumers to be able to make money in-game really has no business claiming they are competent traders.

In short only those traders who can't hack it in a genuinely competitive market would oppose such changes.

All The Best

Kiralyn2000 · April 2017

Giles.floydub17_ESO wrote: »

Kiralyn2000 wrote: »

Well yeah - the system works for you. Of course you like it. I just think that an artificially-limited economy that excludes a portion of the playerbase is a shame. Sure, having a smaller playground to compete in helps the people doing the competing, but..... /shrug

(And even if you kept the system of limited/chosen sellers, it still sucks from a buyer's perspective, having to deal with this patchwork of vendors instead of a real market.)

@Kiralyn2000 A great many trade guilds have space all the time, though a few are full most of the time. With that being the case I do not see how anyone what is interested is excluded. The trade guild I am in often has some spaces and I do very well there.

So the statement that the system is limited falls on it's face.

Even if there are 600 trade guilds, there are only so many vendor locations. That fragments participation in the economy.
Among the guilds that can get vendor locations, there are "good" locations and "bad" ones (the outlaw den of that city no-one goes to,etc). This fragments participation in the economy.
Many of the guilds that can get vendor locations have dues/fees/sales quotas/etc. This fragments participation in the economy.

There are many subsets of "economy" that people are boxed/limited into. Which means that the ones in the "privileged" positions (good guilds, good locations, etc) aren't competing against everyone, they're competing against a limited pool of other players. That's what I mean by "artificially limited economy" and "smaller playground".

(as opposed to an open AH system, where all 100% of the playerbase can walk up to the counter and offer something for sale, and the entire playerbase can see the full list of items for sale. Everyone has the opportunity to compete against everyone else. Full participation.)

But yeah. /target Dead Horse. /beat

idk · April 2017

Kiralyn2000 wrote: »

Giles.floydub17_ESO wrote: »

Kiralyn2000 wrote: »

Well yeah - the system works for you. Of course you like it. I just think that an artificially-limited economy that excludes a portion of the playerbase is a shame. Sure, having a smaller playground to compete in helps the people doing the competing, but..... /shrug

(And even if you kept the system of limited/chosen sellers, it still sucks from a buyer's perspective, having to deal with this patchwork of vendors instead of a real market.)

@Kiralyn2000 A great many trade guilds have space all the time, though a few are full most of the time. With that being the case I do not see how anyone what is interested is excluded. The trade guild I am in often has some spaces and I do very well there.

So the statement that the system is limited falls on it's face.

Even if there are 600 trade guilds, there are only so many vendor locations. That fragments participation in the economy.
Among the guilds that can get vendor locations, there are "good" locations and "bad" ones (the outlaw den of that city no-one goes to,etc). This fragments participation in the economy.
Many of the guilds that can get vendor locations have dues/fees/sales quotas/etc. This fragments participation in the economy.

There are many subsets of "economy" that people are boxed/limited into. Which means that the ones in the "privileged" positions (good guilds, good locations, etc) aren't competing against everyone, they're competing against a limited pool of other players. That's what I mean by "artificially limited economy" and "smaller playground".

(as opposed to an open AH system, where all 100% of the playerbase can walk up to the counter and offer something for sale, and the entire playerbase can see the full list of items for sale. Everyone has the opportunity to compete against everyone else. Full participation.)

But yeah. /target Dead Horse. /beat

and based on such a limited response it does not seem to be as much of an issue as you paint it to be. Considering people yell when they do not like something it just seems as though your view on this has never gotten a large scale response.

And the guild I am in has a sales quota, very low with no additional dues. I have easily made about 500k this week. Normal weeks between 100-200k and if I do not feel like selling something one week I do not get kicked, since I normally do sell. stuff.

So again, does not seem to be as much of an issue as some are making it out to be. No offense, just pointing out some things that seem obvious to me.

laksikus · April 2017

Gandrhulf_Harbard wrote: »

Vipstaakki wrote: »

We do not want the auction house. We want the guild traders. Deal. With. It.

There's no supporting evidence for the second part of that statement.

I don't want a Global AH - would not be right in this type of game.

But the current system IS. NOT. FIT. FOR. PURPOSE.

The current system could work with a few very simple changes.

1) Limit each Account to one Guild Trader.
2) Add in basic Search functions to Trade Kiosks.
3) In each Zone Capital add in a Free Trader so that people not in a Trade Guild can list a limited number of Items for sale.
4) Add a Market Advertising Board to each Zone Capital - have it work as a Zone Wide Search Function (only search, still have to go to the individual Kiosk to buy).

Reasons:
1) Will free up more slots so that more players can trade, and it WILL drive down Kiosk Prices for everyone. Prices are only so high because a relatively small number of high-end traders are in 2, 3, or even 4 trade guilds - thus denying up to three other players any access to the market.

2) Reasons - any game that can't deliver basic search functions needs to re-assess if it has competent people in key roles.

3) Gives a stepping-stone for people who currently don't trade at all because of lack of access (Note: There are NOT enough Kiosks in the game for every player to be able to trade, even if we assume each player only has access to ONE Kiosk). More overall sellers also lowers commodity prices, which will in turn lower Kiosk prices, thus giving the ingame economy a much needed, and long overdue price adjustment.

4) Even pre-modern markets had advertising so buyers knew where to go to get what they wanted.

Those four, relatively simple, steps would open up trade to many more people, make buying easier (thus increasing sales), offer a pathway to trade for players who currently do not engage with the current system at all.

The ONLY people who would not benefit significantly from these changes are the few traders who depend entirely on the cartel nature of the current system to deny consumers choice AND information; and anyone who needs a monopoly AND ignorant consumers to be able to make money in-game really has no business claiming they are competent traders.

In short only those traders who can't hack it in a genuinely competitive market would oppose such changes.

All The Best

Show me how many trading guilds are permanently full ingame and I will support you.
Too bad you cant do that cos not even main City trading guilds are full most of the time

cspinasdf · April 2017

Kiralyn2000 wrote: »

Enough with this debate, it's a dead horse issue. Need to learn to work with the system we have.

So I have some hypothetical situations that I'd like the market pros to educate me on.

1. Guy wants to sell one item a week. He's not looking to be a Super Trader or get absolute max profit. Just thinks it's a waste to vendor something for 9g when it could sell for 500-1000g. How does he do it?

2. Provisioner needs a bunch of one ingredient, let's say 200. He wants to get it for a good per-unit price. How does he do it?

3. Player is looking for a Particular Rare Item (there's maybe half a dozen or a dozen out there total). Again, he'd like to get the one for the best price. How does he do it?

Thanks for any assistance you can provide.

1. Shout to zone or join a non dues guild.
2. Look at ttc website for the most recently listed at a reasonable price*.
3. Again ttc.com*

*Only applicable to pc players. Console players are sol.

Gandrhulf_Harbard · April 2017

laksikus wrote: »

Show me how many trading guilds are permanently full ingame and I will support you.
Too bad you cant do that cos not even main City trading guilds are full most of the time

The ones that aren't full are usually so because they have utterly stupid membership requirements.

All The Best

ManwithBeard9 · April 2017

Gandrhulf_Harbard wrote: »

laksikus wrote: »

Show me how many trading guilds are permanently full ingame and I will support you.
Too bad you cant do that cos not even main City trading guilds are full most of the time

The ones that aren't full are usually so because they have utterly stupid membership requirements.

All The Best

Every trade guild kicks inactive users. I sent a message to one of the leaders for Red Nirn Reserve, trader in Mournhold. Was added immediately. There is always space. Just because they don't advertise that they have 4 spots open at moment doesn't mean it's full.

wenchmore420b14_ESO · April 2017

Rohamad_Ali · April 2017

Auction Horse Now !

Anlaemar · April 2017

Kiralyn2000 wrote: »

Tried using the TTC website to find something for sale once. Yokudan Bow Motif. The first four listings they had, ran to different zones, found the traders.... item was already gone. Waste of 10+ minutes, nothing to show for it.

Meh.

edit: and if you need multiple addons and a third-party website to make your economy work? There's clearly something wrong with how it's set up.
(Q: Does Awesome Guild Store work for any guild vendor you walk up to, or just for guilds you belong to?)

It defiantly has its flaws, doesn't always work, but it's the closest we have and I'll use it till something better comes along. I'm one of those people who is indifferent to how the guild traders work. If ZOS changes it, great. If they don't, I'll keep playing regardless.

Meld777 · April 2017

No to global AH. The current system is perfect. Adds dynamics, prevents monopoly.

Izaki · April 2017

I'm glad there's no auction house, the guild trader system is just fine.

Kiralyn2000 · April 2017

Meld777 wrote: »

prevents monopoly.

/bwahahahahaha

How does keeping people out of the economy, and limiting it to the moguls who can bid huge amounts for Location Location Location.... prevent monopoly?

Anlaemar · April 2017

Kiralyn2000 wrote: »

Meld777 wrote: »

prevents monopoly.

/bwahahahahaha

How does keeping people out of the economy, and limiting it to the moguls who can bid huge amounts for Location Location Location.... prevent monopoly?

This. This system actually does the opposite. The bigger guilds get the best spots and sell the most stuff. Yeah you can go to those random traders in BFE and get some deals, but I know I don't go out of my way most times. I'm lazy and do 99% of my shopping at the Mournhold traders.

Does add some "dynamics" though, but honestly it's just a gold sink like housing.

Anlaemar · April 2017

Double post.

Gandrhulf_Harbard · April 2017

Kiralyn2000 wrote: »

Meld777 wrote: »

prevents monopoly.

/bwahahahahaha

How does keeping people out of the economy, and limiting it to the moguls who can bid huge amounts for Location Location Location.... prevent monopoly?

It seems to me most of the defenders of the Trade Kiosk system are, almost certainly, willfully ignorant of this rather ovbious fact.

Which makes all of their vociferous defending of the current system more than a little disingenuous.

All The Best

Ojustaboo · April 2017

I recently joined two guild traders for the first time since beta to get cash to buy my house.

One is in Wayrest, the other in Stormhold.

I had 30 items listed on both, putting listings on just before I log off for bed (at well below MM prices). I've done this every day for a few weeks.

Within 24 hrs, every day, almost my entire Wayrest listings were sold (and 1/2 - 3/4 had sold by the time I logged in the next morning).

In the same period, I might sell 2 or 3 items in the Stormhold one.

I'm listing the same things on both, stacks of iron ore, popular alchemy ingredients etc. Virtually the only thing guaranteed to sell from Stormhold is potent and fortified nirn.

I tried an experiment last night, stuff in Stormhold that hadn't sold for 3+ days, I delisted and re-listed at exactly the same price in Wayrest. All had sold by the time I logged in today.

So it really does matter where your guild store is.

So the poor guild leader in Stormhold has gone through all this hassle to get his store, and compared to the one in Wayrest I'm finding it useless. To the point I decided there's no point me belonging to it as it takes too long for stuff to sell. And Stormhold isn't a single out of the way trader, it's a trading hub of about 6 traders.

Is this really working as intended, where only a handful of guilds in prime positions are worth belonging to?

Because if it is, it means most of the players, even if they want to belong to a good trading guild, will never ever be able to do so. It was only by chance when I asked in my guilds chat if anyone knew a good trader, that a guild member checked his trading guild and found it was 499/500 and invited me.

I'm happy from the point of view I'm making a fortune as I was lucky enough to get into a guild in a prime position

I've broken my elbow, so am playing one handed using a 12 button mmo mouse. I cant really PvP etc successfully one handed, all I can really do is farm for a few weeks, so making the most of it by getting a huge bank balance

.

THIS WEEK, listing the same items on both

Stormhold I have made 179,123
Wayrest I have made 1,281,635

That's a huge difference between them

So in total, nearly one and a half million, with one and a quarter of it being made at Wayrest.

To me, that just shows how guild traders are great for the lucky few in the right position, but for everybody else, pretty crap.

Personally I would prefer an AH any day.

Sakiri · April 2017

Let me personally rent a kiosk.

Let EVERYONE personally rent a kiosk. Person buying goes to kiosk and sees everything people registered at that one is selling, but not who is selling it.

One kiosk per person.

Limit sales listing to X per day.

Done.

Tabbycat · April 2017

Here's the list of Guild Traders:

http://en.uesp.net/wiki/Online:Guild_Traders

Do you think that's enough? (There are 171).

ComboBreaker88 · April 2017

If they implement an Auction house at this point they would have to make it so all players can only be in 1 guild. The while reason for 5 was to compensate for the lack of an auction house. If they would simply fix several cities in the game so their trader kiosks are more viable that would make a huge difference.

Sakiri · April 2017

Last I'd heard, the reason for five also was so you could be in a social guild, raiding guild, etc, rather than pick one.

Especially since guild is tied to account, not character, and it means Johnny RP can't have his main in a raid guild plus his RP alts in a RP guild.

Gandrhulf_Harbard · April 2017

Tabbycat wrote: »

Here's the list of Guild Traders:

http://en.uesp.net/wiki/Online:Guild_Traders

Do you think that's enough? (There are 171).

So even if every player in a Trade Guild (Guild with a Trade Kiosk) was ONLY in one such Guild there are enough Traders for

171 x 500 = 85,500 Players that can access a Trade Kiosk per platform, per region. Giving a total of 513,000.

Now depending on how many total players there are - Zeni said 7 Million account but not all will be active - that could mean a lot of player will NEVER have the chance to trade even if they wanted to.

All The Best

Tabbycat · April 2017

Gandrhulf_Harbard wrote: »

Tabbycat wrote: »

Here's the list of Guild Traders:

http://en.uesp.net/wiki/Online:Guild_Traders

Do you think that's enough? (There are 171).

So even if every player in a Trade Guild (Guild with a Trade Kiosk) was ONLY in one such Guild there are enough Traders for

171 x 500 = 85,500 Players that can access a Trade Kiosk per platform, per region. Giving a total of 513,000.

Now depending on how many total players there are - Zeni said 7 Million account but not all will be active - that could mean a lot of player will NEVER have the chance to trade even if they wanted to.

All The Best

Players who are in 5 trading guilds that have a Guild Trader effectively remove 4 people from being in a trading guild that has access to a Guild Trader (since the maximum number of players in a guild is 500).

That is, of course, based on the assumption that all Trading Guilds would have the maximum number of players at all times (and I'm sure the ones that always get a trader with high traffic flow most likely have a wait list to join).

Demycilian · April 2017

AH for ESO Plus folks?

Joke. Please, ZOS, make the trade guilds disappear.

Vipstaakki · April 2017

Demycilian wrote: »

AH for ESO Plus folks?

Joke. Please, ZOS, make the trade guilds disappear.

I would quit my sub if they did that.