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Warden compared to other classes: Lack of damage-dealing skills
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pieratsos✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Warden skills that do dmg are :
Dive
Scorch
Swarm
Bear (the bear by itself doesnt cost ult since its a pet and it can be up 100% of the time)
Arctic blast
Impaling shards
Crystallized Shield
Frozen gate
There you go. 8 abilities so its sort of balanced with the other classes. What you could do is count the available buffs from each class. Thats where things get out of balance.0 -
SanTii.92✭✭✭✭✭
✭Anti_Virus wrote: »Anti_Virus wrote: »You think thats bad? Stam Warden is worse
In PvP, Stam Warden will be amazing. No worries there.
PvE-wise its Stamina in general that needs buffs across the board. Amongst themselves Stam classes are balanced nicely. The real issue with the Warden right now comes from how few damage-dealing skills they have.
A lot of people are asking for Swarm to have a Stamina morph and I mostly agree. Problem is, Stamina already benefits so much from using lots of Weapon skills, while Magicka relies on Class skills a lot which the Warden has only 3 of for DPS.
Well the stam morphs have no additional benefits, At this point just make the class magic based, Screaming Cliff racer deals more damage than cutting dive, and other skills have more utility.
Shoot Zos can you just give me a decent hunter/ranget class?
It'll be good dude. no worries there lol
I definitely agree that it was disappointing to see no additional effects besides the Stam conversion added to the Bear and Cliff Racer skills.
Bear stam morphs actually does 21% extra damage, they got the best morph here, but anyways it isn't something exactly new or out of ordinary to only convery class skills to stam..When the snows fall and the white winds blow,
the lone wolf dies, but the pack survives.
Arg | Pc Na | Factionless Mag Warden.1 -
ArchMikem✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭timidobserver wrote: »That is the point. I suspect that one goal of this class is to bolster the amount of healers and tanks in the group finder.
That's only if Warden players elect to play an actual Tank or Healer. Damage Dealing is the first thing that comes to mind when in a fight. Players don't immediately think "I need to Heal myself through this" or "I need to sustain the enemy to death", everyone just wants to throw skills at a thing until it dies.CP2,100 Master Explorer - AvA Two Star Warlord - Console Peasant - Khajiiti Aficionado - The Clan
Quest Objective: OMG Go Talk To That Kitty!2 -
kadar✭✭✭✭✭
✭pjwb16_ESO wrote: »Doesnt matter warden fotm
That literally means nothing. It's like saying that Vvardenfell will be zone of the month...2 -
SanTii.92✭✭✭✭✭
✭Warden skills that do dmg are :
Dive
Scorch
Swarm
Bear (the bear by itself doesnt cost ult since its a pet and it can be up 100% of the time)
Arctic blast
Impaling shards
Crystallized Shield
Frozen gate
There you go. 8 abilities so its sort of balanced with the other classes. What you could do is count the available buffs from each class. Thats where things get out of balance.
we don't count bear since everyone has access to generic dps ults on comet and destro ult anyways, then all of which you have listed below that aren't skills worth consideration for dps setups.Edited by SanTii.92 on April 16, 2017 12:26AMWhen the snows fall and the white winds blow,
the lone wolf dies, but the pack survives.
Arg | Pc Na | Factionless Mag Warden.1 -
Lynx7386✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Anti_Virus wrote: »Anti_Virus wrote: »You think thats bad? Stam Warden is worse
In PvP, Stam Warden will be amazing. No worries there.
PvE-wise its Stamina in general that needs buffs across the board. Amongst themselves Stam classes are balanced nicely. The real issue with the Warden right now comes from how few damage-dealing skills they have.
A lot of people are asking for Swarm to have a Stamina morph and I mostly agree. Problem is, Stamina already benefits so much from using lots of Weapon skills, while Magicka relies on Class skills a lot which the Warden has only 3 of for DPS.
Well the stam morphs have no additional benefits, At this point just make the class magic based, Screaming Cliff racer deals more damage than cutting dive, and other skills have more utility.
Shoot Zos can you just give me a decent hunter/ranget class?
It'll be good dude. no worries there lol
I definitely agree that it was disappointing to see no additional effects besides the Stam conversion added to the Bear and Cliff Racer skills.
Bear stam morphs actually does 21% extra damage, they got the best morph here, but anyways it isn't something exactly new or out of ordinary to only convery class skills to stam..
Reread the skill morphs, both the magic and stam morphs of the bear list 21% additional damage. It used to be that the physical bear did 12% more damage and the magic morph could self revive, but that got changed. Now the magic morph gets the self revive AND the extra damage.
PS4 / NA
M'asad - Khajiit Nightblade - Healer
Pakhet - Khajiit Dragonknight - Tank
Raksha - Khajiit Sorcerer - Stamina DPS
Bastet - Khajiit Templar - Healer
Leonin - Khajiit Warden - Tank2 -
Stamden✭✭✭✭✭
✭Anti_Virus wrote: »Anti_Virus wrote: »You think thats bad? Stam Warden is worse
In PvP, Stam Warden will be amazing. No worries there.
PvE-wise its Stamina in general that needs buffs across the board. Amongst themselves Stam classes are balanced nicely. The real issue with the Warden right now comes from how few damage-dealing skills they have.
A lot of people are asking for Swarm to have a Stamina morph and I mostly agree. Problem is, Stamina already benefits so much from using lots of Weapon skills, while Magicka relies on Class skills a lot which the Warden has only 3 of for DPS.
Well the stam morphs have no additional benefits, At this point just make the class magic based, Screaming Cliff racer deals more damage than cutting dive, and other skills have more utility.
Shoot Zos can you just give me a decent hunter/ranget class?
It'll be good dude. no worries there lol
I definitely agree that it was disappointing to see no additional effects besides the Stam conversion added to the Bear and Cliff Racer skills.
Bear stam morphs actually does 21% extra damage, they got the best morph here, but anyways it isn't something exactly new or out of ordinary to only convery class skills to stam..
Reread the skill morphs, both the magic and stam morphs of the bear list 21% additional damage. It used to be that the physical bear did 12% more damage and the magic morph could self revive, but that got changed. Now the magic morph gets the self revive AND the extra damage.
Yep. They must have looked at it again and thought, "Woah, stamina gets something that magika doesn't? We can't have that!"
I'll never understand why the devs hate stamina so much.PC NA
~Currently taking a break from the game until my DK can become something more than just a crafter~1 -
Vaoh✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Warden skills that do dmg are :
Dive
Scorch
Swarm
Bear (the bear by itself doesnt cost ult since its a pet and it can be up 100% of the time)
Arctic blast
Impaling shards
Crystallized Shield
Frozen gate
There you go. 8 abilities so its sort of balanced with the other classes. What you could do is count the available buffs from each class. Thats where things get out of balance.
Ultimates don't count because they aren't spammable. The bear takes up two Ult slots as well and for PvE will only be beneficial in execute as well when casted. You give up a Destro Ult/Shooting Star for that.
Pretty sure Frozen Gate doesn't deal damage. The Bear is an Ult. Crystallized Shield has a morph to deal damage on absorbing projectiles similar to a reflect, and isn't a DPSing skill (heals Rakkhat!).
If I counted skills this way I'd get a lot more than I listed for other classes too. Warden falls short each time in the amount of damaging skills it has, which is okay as they're more support-based. The fact that it falls short so much that it has only half of what other classes have is what seems to be the issue here.
Also we aren't trying to be super technical, but rather realistic on how the class functions. Right now it is quite lacking in damage-dealing skills to the point where it really will be a problem.1 -
Vaoh✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Anti_Virus wrote: »Anti_Virus wrote: »You think thats bad? Stam Warden is worse
In PvP, Stam Warden will be amazing. No worries there.
PvE-wise its Stamina in general that needs buffs across the board. Amongst themselves Stam classes are balanced nicely. The real issue with the Warden right now comes from how few damage-dealing skills they have.
A lot of people are asking for Swarm to have a Stamina morph and I mostly agree. Problem is, Stamina already benefits so much from using lots of Weapon skills, while Magicka relies on Class skills a lot which the Warden has only 3 of for DPS.
Well the stam morphs have no additional benefits, At this point just make the class magic based, Screaming Cliff racer deals more damage than cutting dive, and other skills have more utility.
Shoot Zos can you just give me a decent hunter/ranget class?
It'll be good dude. no worries there lol
I definitely agree that it was disappointing to see no additional effects besides the Stam conversion added to the Bear and Cliff Racer skills.
Bear stam morphs actually does 21% extra damage, they got the best morph here, but anyways it isn't something exactly new or out of ordinary to only convery class skills to stam..
I didn't know that
I guess only the Cliff Racer deserves an extra effect then. 0 -
STEVIL✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Considering this class was designed with 'group intent', it makes me wonder how many solo players will be running Warden. Sure, they provide great utility, but for a solo player they need DPS as well as self-buffs. So a class full of buffs just doesn't seem like it will be a good class for a solo player.
Depends on the solo player... I fully intend to play a Warden (or two) and I always play solo. My damage skills are mostly from weapon skills lines anyway, so I don't really see an issue.
Will I be overly powerful? No, but for me, at least, it will suffice.
cannot agree more.
one of the key elements for any solo build is not DPS but versatility. The solo has to do everything on their own with nobody soaking damage for them or healing or buffing.
honestly, the robust array of capabilities for upticks for the warden makes me see it as a good solo class - let the weapons bring the pain and the class bring the specialization for the content.
that said, i plan on a bosmer stam ward and an argonian mag ward when the time comes but honestly, while i find it intriguing i dont find it particularly exciting. that may change with play however and i fully welcome that surprise if it happens.Proudly skooma free while talks-when-drunk is in mandatory public housing.
YFMV Your Fun May Vary.
First Law of Nerf-o-Dynamics
"The good way I used to get good kills *with good skill* was good but the way others kill me now is bad."1 -
Browiseth✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭because every class should be the same just with a different coat of paintskingrad when zoscharacters:PC/NA but live in EU 150+ ping lyfe- EP - M - Strikes-with-Arcane - Argonian Stamina Sorc - lvl 50 - The Flawless Conqueror/Spirit Slayer
- EP - F - Melina Elinia - Dunmer Magicka Dragonknight - lvl 50
- EP - F - Sinnia Lavellan - Altmer Warden Healer - lvl 50
- EP - M - Follows-the-Arcane - Argonian Healer Sorcerer- lvl 50
- EP - F - Ashes-of-Arcane - Argonian Magicka Necromancer - lvl 50
- EP - M - Bolgrog the Sinh - Orc Stamina Dragonknight - lvl 50
- EP - F - Moonlight Maiden - Altmer Magicka Templar - lvl 50
- EP - F - Maxine Cauline - Breton Magicka Nightblade - lvl 50
- EP - M - Garrus Loridius - Imperial Stamina Templar - lvl 50
- EP - F - Jennifer Loridius - Imperial Necromancer tank - lvl 50
0 -
Vaoh✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭because every class should be the same just with a different coat of paint
^laziest argument ever made
Problem: Mag NB & Stam classes are no longer taken in trials because Mag DK/Sorc/Templar deal more damage.
Solution: They don't need to be good in trials or else every class is the same.
Flawed logic.1 -
Browiseth✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭because every class should be the same just with a different coat of paint
^laziest argument ever made
Problem: Mag NB & Stam classes are no longer taken in trials because Mag DK/Sorc/Templar deal more damage.
Solution: They don't need to be good in trials or else every class is the same.
Flawed logic.
@Vaoh well no, ideally every class would be viable for distinct reasons
not just the fact that all their abilities fit the exact same roles
flawed logic
(that was my 'GOTCHA!!!!' moment)Edited by Browiseth on April 16, 2017 1:19AMskingrad when zoscharacters:PC/NA but live in EU 150+ ping lyfe- EP - M - Strikes-with-Arcane - Argonian Stamina Sorc - lvl 50 - The Flawless Conqueror/Spirit Slayer
- EP - F - Melina Elinia - Dunmer Magicka Dragonknight - lvl 50
- EP - F - Sinnia Lavellan - Altmer Warden Healer - lvl 50
- EP - M - Follows-the-Arcane - Argonian Healer Sorcerer- lvl 50
- EP - F - Ashes-of-Arcane - Argonian Magicka Necromancer - lvl 50
- EP - M - Bolgrog the Sinh - Orc Stamina Dragonknight - lvl 50
- EP - F - Moonlight Maiden - Altmer Magicka Templar - lvl 50
- EP - F - Maxine Cauline - Breton Magicka Nightblade - lvl 50
- EP - M - Garrus Loridius - Imperial Stamina Templar - lvl 50
- EP - F - Jennifer Loridius - Imperial Necromancer tank - lvl 50
0 -
pieratsos✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Warden skills that do dmg are :
Dive
Scorch
Swarm
Bear (the bear by itself doesnt cost ult since its a pet and it can be up 100% of the time)
Arctic blast
Impaling shards
Crystallized Shield
Frozen gate
There you go. 8 abilities so its sort of balanced with the other classes. What you could do is count the available buffs from each class. Thats where things get out of balance.
we don't count bear since everyone has access to generic dps ults on comet and destro ult anyways, then all of which you have listed below that aren't skills worth consideration for dps setups.
The bear does not work like other ults. Thats literally what i said and the whole point why i listed it. All ultimates cost ult to do dmg. The bear ability costs ult to do dmg but the bear by itself doesnt. Its up 100% of the time and deals dmg without costing you anything.
I know that half of the abilities i listed are not considered DPS abilities. But the same applies for fragmented shield, petrify, stonefist, focused charge, blazing shield, mines, encase, agony etc which ironically were all listed and compared to warden abilities. You are comparing apples with oranges. Either they are all out or all in.0 -
Mojmir✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Warden will be like any other class,cookie cutter within a month with half the skills broken and only a cpl useable. Just add spellcrafting already.1 -
Vaoh✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭because every class should be the same just with a different coat of paint
^laziest argument ever made
Problem: Mag NB & Stam classes are no longer taken in trials because Mag DK/Sorc/Templar deal more damage.
Solution: They don't need to be good in trials or else every class is the same.
Flawed logic.
@Vaoh well no, ideally every class would be viable for distinct reasons
not just the fact that all their abilities fit the exact same roles
flawed logic
(that was my 'GOTCHA!!!!' moment)
Every class is supposed to be viable at all roles. This is the most core design of every class in ESO. You'll find that some classes are better at healing or tanking than others but all of them DPS viably and mostly equally. Roles are unassigned for this very reason as well.
Mag NB still needs buffs, preferably by autorecasting Grim Focus when you use the proc. Stamina needs an across the board type of buff for PvE.
Warden is the exception. Dealing damage is the biggest part of any game with combat, especially MMOs like this. It's why group finder has like 10+ DPS for every tank. Warden suffers right now from having such a tiny amount of ways to deal good damage but is luckily fixable through 1-2 easy morph changes.
Getting changes to happen requires discussion though. I already stated in my original post which it doesn't seem you've read that I love this class regardless, and that I've created this thread for discussion on a problem many people have brought up already.Edited by Vaoh on April 16, 2017 1:32AM1 -
waterfairy✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Warden seems geared towards tank/heals so having good damage on top of that would be like the trinity wrapped up in 1 class.0 -
SanTii.92✭✭✭✭✭
✭Warden skills that do dmg are :
Dive
Scorch
Swarm
Bear (the bear by itself doesnt cost ult since its a pet and it can be up 100% of the time)
Arctic blast
Impaling shards
Crystallized Shield
Frozen gate
There you go. 8 abilities so its sort of balanced with the other classes. What you could do is count the available buffs from each class. Thats where things get out of balance.
we don't count bear since everyone has access to generic dps ults on comet and destro ult anyways, then all of which you have listed below that aren't skills worth consideration for dps setups.
The bear does not work like other ults. Thats literally what i said and the whole point why i listed it. All ultimates cost ult to do dmg. The bear ability costs ult to do dmg but the bear by itself doesnt. Its up 100% of the time and deals dmg without costing you anything.
I know that half of the abilities i listed are not considered DPS abilities. But the same applies for fragmented shield, petrify, stonefist, focused charge, blazing shield, mines, encase, agony etc which ironically were all listed and compared to warden abilities. You are comparing apples with oranges. Either they are all out or all in.
I'm well aware of that, but zos has stated that the bear will be on line with other ults dps-wise, altough still a bit stronger since you got to double bar it. If you want to count the bear, so you got to with soul harvest, or standard of might, etc.Edited by SanTii.92 on April 16, 2017 1:35AMWhen the snows fall and the white winds blow,
the lone wolf dies, but the pack survives.
Arg | Pc Na | Factionless Mag Warden.1 -
Vaoh✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Warden will be like any other class,cookie cutter within a month with half the skills broken and only a cpl useable. Just add spellcrafting already.
Well that was optimistic -_-
Spellcrafting will probably come next year for Chapter 2 based on the new schedule. We have a looong wait ahead of us for that.1 -
pieratsos✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Warden skills that do dmg are :
Dive
Scorch
Swarm
Bear (the bear by itself doesnt cost ult since its a pet and it can be up 100% of the time)
Arctic blast
Impaling shards
Crystallized Shield
Frozen gate
There you go. 8 abilities so its sort of balanced with the other classes. What you could do is count the available buffs from each class. Thats where things get out of balance.
Ultimates don't count because they aren't spammable. The bear takes up two Ult slots as well and for PvE will only be beneficial in execute as well when casted. You give up a Destro Ult/Shooting Star for that.
Pretty sure Frozen Gate doesn't deal damage. The Bear is an Ult. Crystallized Shield has a morph to deal damage on absorbing projectiles similar to a reflect, and isn't a DPSing skill (heals Rakkhat!).
If I counted skills this way I'd get a lot more than I listed for other classes too. Warden falls short each time in the amount of damaging skills it has, which is okay as they're more support-based. The fact that it falls short so much that it has only half of what other classes have is what seems to be the issue here.
Also we aren't trying to be super technical, but rather realistic on how the class functions. Right now it is quite lacking in damage-dealing skills to the point where it really will be a problem.
The bear isnt like other ults. You are not counting ults because they are not spammable since they cost ult to do dmg but the thing about the bear is that it doesnt cost ult to do dmg. Only the special ability it has costs ult. And the fact that it costs two ult slots doesnt mean anything. Sorc pets also take 2 ability slots. If anything most people would prefer to double bar ults instead of abilities.
I think frozen gate deals dmg if the person that goes through it is already immune. And you did list all abilities that do dmg like that. Fragmented shield, stonefist, mines, enacase etc. So i listed all the warden abilities that do dmg too. And you are right. We should be realistic. And the reality is that most setups dont even have more than 3-4 class abilities to do dmg.0 -
Vaoh✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Warden skills that do dmg are :
Dive
Scorch
Swarm
Bear (the bear by itself doesnt cost ult since its a pet and it can be up 100% of the time)
Arctic blast
Impaling shards
Crystallized Shield
Frozen gate
There you go. 8 abilities so its sort of balanced with the other classes. What you could do is count the available buffs from each class. Thats where things get out of balance.
we don't count bear since everyone has access to generic dps ults on comet and destro ult anyways, then all of which you have listed below that aren't skills worth consideration for dps setups.
The bear does not work like other ults. Thats literally what i said and the whole point why i listed it. All ultimates cost ult to do dmg. The bear ability costs ult to do dmg but the bear by itself doesnt. Its up 100% of the time and deals dmg without costing you anything.
I know that half of the abilities i listed are not considered DPS abilities. But the same applies for fragmented shield, petrify, stonefist, focused charge, blazing shield, mines, encase, agony etc which ironically were all listed and compared to warden abilities. You are comparing apples with oranges. Either they are all out or all in.
The bear isn't as amazing a DPS tool as you think. It desls passive damage, but also requires two slots. On a Warden you cannot use Shooting Star/Ele Rage for massive DPS. You cannot slot Northern Storm for that huge 8% Max Magicka passive buff. Your bear can die. It is really strong but absolutely nothing compared to the sort of savior of Warden DPS you make it sound like. It'll likely not be slotted by groups setting leaderboards scores (cannot bring it for vAA HM or vMoL either).
You are missing the most important point. The skills that aren't meant for pure DPS find use in creating diverse PvP builds. Warden has 2 good DPS skills (Swarm, Scorch) and 1 questionable DPS skill (Dive - better than Force Pulse?).
My Mag Sorc has Summon Familiar, Bound Aegis, Crystal Frags, Lightning Flood, Daedric Curse, Mages Wrath and Boundless Storm to use. That's 7 powerful DPS skills with two of them (Familiar/Aegis) being interchangable and others being a choice of the player.
I don't know if you run Vet trials as a DPS or not, but it basically means the Warden has 3 flex spots which will forcibly be filled with barely acceptable/weak DPS skills.1 -
pieratsos✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Warden skills that do dmg are :
Dive
Scorch
Swarm
Bear (the bear by itself doesnt cost ult since its a pet and it can be up 100% of the time)
Arctic blast
Impaling shards
Crystallized Shield
Frozen gate
There you go. 8 abilities so its sort of balanced with the other classes. What you could do is count the available buffs from each class. Thats where things get out of balance.
we don't count bear since everyone has access to generic dps ults on comet and destro ult anyways, then all of which you have listed below that aren't skills worth consideration for dps setups.
The bear does not work like other ults. Thats literally what i said and the whole point why i listed it. All ultimates cost ult to do dmg. The bear ability costs ult to do dmg but the bear by itself doesnt. Its up 100% of the time and deals dmg without costing you anything.
I know that half of the abilities i listed are not considered DPS abilities. But the same applies for fragmented shield, petrify, stonefist, focused charge, blazing shield, mines, encase, agony etc which ironically were all listed and compared to warden abilities. You are comparing apples with oranges. Either they are all out or all in.
I'm well aware of that, but zos has stated that the bear will be on line with other ults dps-wise, altough still a bit stronger since you got to double bar it. If you want to count the bear, so you got to with soul harvest, or standard of might, etc.
You are saying that you are well aware of how it works and yet you keep comparing it with other ults. You cant compare it with other ults. Soul harvest, standard etc will not do dmg unless u have ult. The bear will always do dmg whether u have ult or not. Its special ability that u can activate can be compared with soul harvest etc. But the bear by itself will always do dmg regardless of its special ability. The fact that they said that its normal attacks will be in line with other ults actually makes it even stronger. That means that u basically have two ults. Its normal attacks will do enough dmg to be compared with other ults and its completely free, and on top of that u have its special ability that also does a ton of dmg as a bonus.0 -
Vaoh✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Warden skills that do dmg are :
Dive
Scorch
Swarm
Bear (the bear by itself doesnt cost ult since its a pet and it can be up 100% of the time)
Arctic blast
Impaling shards
Crystallized Shield
Frozen gate
There you go. 8 abilities so its sort of balanced with the other classes. What you could do is count the available buffs from each class. Thats where things get out of balance.
Ultimates don't count because they aren't spammable. The bear takes up two Ult slots as well and for PvE will only be beneficial in execute as well when casted. You give up a Destro Ult/Shooting Star for that.
Pretty sure Frozen Gate doesn't deal damage. The Bear is an Ult. Crystallized Shield has a morph to deal damage on absorbing projectiles similar to a reflect, and isn't a DPSing skill (heals Rakkhat!).
If I counted skills this way I'd get a lot more than I listed for other classes too. Warden falls short each time in the amount of damaging skills it has, which is okay as they're more support-based. The fact that it falls short so much that it has only half of what other classes have is what seems to be the issue here.
Also we aren't trying to be super technical, but rather realistic on how the class functions. Right now it is quite lacking in damage-dealing skills to the point where it really will be a problem.
The bear isnt like other ults. You are not counting ults because they are not spammable since they cost ult to do dmg but the thing about the bear is that it doesnt cost ult to do dmg. Only the special ability it has costs ult. And the fact that it costs two ult slots doesnt mean anything. Sorc pets also take 2 ability slots. If anything most people would prefer to double bar ults instead of abilities.
I think frozen gate deals dmg if the person that goes through it is already immune. And you did list all abilities that do dmg like that. Fragmented shield, stonefist, mines, enacase etc. So i listed all the warden abilities that do dmg too. And you are right. We should be realistic. And the reality is that most setups dont even have more than 3-4 class abilities to do dmg.
Using the bear means two things:
• No Shooting Star/Ele Rage for huge DPS+burning adds
• No Northern Storm 8% Max Magicka passive buff
Also that bear can die and also kill your team in vAA HM.
It's a good Ult, but it's an Ult. You can't take a double-barred Ult and say it does not count as an Ult.
Your rotation needs at least one more powerful DoT on top of a usable Shooting Star or Ele Rage.1 -
SanTii.92✭✭✭✭✭
✭Warden skills that do dmg are :
Dive
Scorch
Swarm
Bear (the bear by itself doesnt cost ult since its a pet and it can be up 100% of the time)
Arctic blast
Impaling shards
Crystallized Shield
Frozen gate
There you go. 8 abilities so its sort of balanced with the other classes. What you could do is count the available buffs from each class. Thats where things get out of balance.
we don't count bear since everyone has access to generic dps ults on comet and destro ult anyways, then all of which you have listed below that aren't skills worth consideration for dps setups.
The bear does not work like other ults. Thats literally what i said and the whole point why i listed it. All ultimates cost ult to do dmg. The bear ability costs ult to do dmg but the bear by itself doesnt. Its up 100% of the time and deals dmg without costing you anything.
I know that half of the abilities i listed are not considered DPS abilities. But the same applies for fragmented shield, petrify, stonefist, focused charge, blazing shield, mines, encase, agony etc which ironically were all listed and compared to warden abilities. You are comparing apples with oranges. Either they are all out or all in.
I'm well aware of that, but zos has stated that the bear will be on line with other ults dps-wise, altough still a bit stronger since you got to double bar it. If you want to count the bear, so you got to with soul harvest, or standard of might, etc.
You are saying that you are well aware of how it works and yet you keep comparing it with other ults. You cant compare it with other ults. Soul harvest, standard etc will not do dmg unless u have ult. The bear will always do dmg whether u have ult or not. Its special ability that u can activate can be compared with soul harvest etc. But the bear by itself will always do dmg regardless of its special ability. The fact that they said that its normal attacks will be in line with other ults actually makes it even stronger. That means that u basically have two ults. Its normal attacks will do enough dmg to be compared with other ults and its completely free, and on top of that u have its special ability that also does a ton of dmg as a bonus.
It's not me who compared it but Zos, when they said it's close, in terms of dps done, with other ults on the last Eso Live. Because if it were that strong, it would overshadow any other ult.When the snows fall and the white winds blow,
the lone wolf dies, but the pack survives.
Arg | Pc Na | Factionless Mag Warden.0 -
Mojmir✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Warden will be like any other class,cookie cutter within a month with half the skills broken and only a cpl useable. Just add spellcrafting already.
Well that was optimistic -_-
Spellcrafting will probably come next year for Chapter 2 based on the new schedule. We have a looong wait ahead of us for that.
more like realistic. with stamina its going to be like 2 skills off warden and the rest using the only few other skills that work or best in use. magicka will be along the same lines unless they decide to add new wep lines or the one handed/glyph thing. its just the way they do things and its not going to change,unless your going for a build that wont be for endgame or just going around solo/casually.0 -
pieratsos✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Warden skills that do dmg are :
Dive
Scorch
Swarm
Bear (the bear by itself doesnt cost ult since its a pet and it can be up 100% of the time)
Arctic blast
Impaling shards
Crystallized Shield
Frozen gate
There you go. 8 abilities so its sort of balanced with the other classes. What you could do is count the available buffs from each class. Thats where things get out of balance.
we don't count bear since everyone has access to generic dps ults on comet and destro ult anyways, then all of which you have listed below that aren't skills worth consideration for dps setups.
The bear does not work like other ults. Thats literally what i said and the whole point why i listed it. All ultimates cost ult to do dmg. The bear ability costs ult to do dmg but the bear by itself doesnt. Its up 100% of the time and deals dmg without costing you anything.
I know that half of the abilities i listed are not considered DPS abilities. But the same applies for fragmented shield, petrify, stonefist, focused charge, blazing shield, mines, encase, agony etc which ironically were all listed and compared to warden abilities. You are comparing apples with oranges. Either they are all out or all in.
The bear isn't as amazing a DPS tool as you think. It desls passive damage, but also requires two slots. On a Warden you cannot use Shooting Star/Ele Rage for massive DPS. You cannot slot Northern Storm for that huge 8% Max Magicka passive buff. Your bear can die. It is really strong but absolutely nothing compared to the sort of savior of Warden DPS you make it sound like. It'll likely not be slotted by groups setting leaderboards scores (cannot bring it for vAA HM or vMoL either).
You are missing the most important point. The skills that aren't meant for pure DPS find use in creating diverse PvP builds. Warden has 2 good DPS skills (Swarm, Scorch) and 1 questionable DPS skill (Dive - better than Force Pulse?).
My Mag Sorc has Summon Familiar, Bound Aegis, Crystal Frags, Lightning Flood, Daedric Curse, Mages Wrath and Boundless Storm to use. That's 7 powerful DPS skills with two of them (Familiar/Aegis) being interchangable and others being a choice of the player.
I don't know if you run Vet trials as a DPS or not, but it basically means the Warden has 3 flex spots which will forcibly be filled with barely acceptable/weak DPS skills.
I didnt say that the bear is the monster DPS ability. I just said that it has passive dmg that doesnt cost ult so it can be considered as a damaging ability. And literally every ability i listed was with that in mind. That they do any kind of dmg cause in ur first comment you mentioned abilities like fragmented shield. If we are talking about PVE then most setups do not use more than 3-4 maybe 5 at most class abilities that do dmg. Familiar, frags, liquid lightning, curse, wrath. Thats 5 abilities assuming u can use the familiar cause it does take two slots just like ur bound aegis and there is only so much u can put on ur bar. Im not saying that warden will out DPS any class but u cant say that its going to be weak either. You dont know how much dmg they will do and the amount of class DPS abilites does not define how much DPS u can do. Stam sorcs only have hurricane and they are doing fine compared to other stam builds.
PVP wise yeah mines, encase and stuff like that can create diverse builds. But so is every single warden ability i listed. And if you are going to talk about PVP then u are gonna have to talk about buffs. And in that category wardens blows every other class out of the water. They have major heroism without cooldown ffs.0 -
pieratsos✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Warden skills that do dmg are :
Dive
Scorch
Swarm
Bear (the bear by itself doesnt cost ult since its a pet and it can be up 100% of the time)
Arctic blast
Impaling shards
Crystallized Shield
Frozen gate
There you go. 8 abilities so its sort of balanced with the other classes. What you could do is count the available buffs from each class. Thats where things get out of balance.
we don't count bear since everyone has access to generic dps ults on comet and destro ult anyways, then all of which you have listed below that aren't skills worth consideration for dps setups.
The bear does not work like other ults. Thats literally what i said and the whole point why i listed it. All ultimates cost ult to do dmg. The bear ability costs ult to do dmg but the bear by itself doesnt. Its up 100% of the time and deals dmg without costing you anything.
I know that half of the abilities i listed are not considered DPS abilities. But the same applies for fragmented shield, petrify, stonefist, focused charge, blazing shield, mines, encase, agony etc which ironically were all listed and compared to warden abilities. You are comparing apples with oranges. Either they are all out or all in.
I'm well aware of that, but zos has stated that the bear will be on line with other ults dps-wise, altough still a bit stronger since you got to double bar it. If you want to count the bear, so you got to with soul harvest, or standard of might, etc.
You are saying that you are well aware of how it works and yet you keep comparing it with other ults. You cant compare it with other ults. Soul harvest, standard etc will not do dmg unless u have ult. The bear will always do dmg whether u have ult or not. Its special ability that u can activate can be compared with soul harvest etc. But the bear by itself will always do dmg regardless of its special ability. The fact that they said that its normal attacks will be in line with other ults actually makes it even stronger. That means that u basically have two ults. Its normal attacks will do enough dmg to be compared with other ults and its completely free, and on top of that u have its special ability that also does a ton of dmg as a bonus.
It's not me who compared it but Zos, when they said it's close, in terms of dps done, with other ults on the last Eso Live. Because if it were that strong, it would overshadow any other ult.
I know what they said and i just pointed that out. They said that we looked how much dmg ults do and adjusted the bear attacks to much that dmg. The issue is that the bear also has a special ability on top of that.
Anw i didnt mention the bear to start a debate on whether the bear will be strong or not and im also not debating on whether the warden will be good or not in PVE DPS. No one knows before we test it. I just responded and mentioned every warden ability that does dmg cause this whole thread started by comparing every single ability with any sort of dmg component attached to it, with only warden's actual DPS abilities.0 -
Vaoh✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Warden will be like any other class,cookie cutter within a month with half the skills broken and only a cpl useable. Just add spellcrafting already.
Well that was optimistic -_-
Spellcrafting will probably come next year for Chapter 2 based on the new schedule. We have a looong wait ahead of us for that.
more like realistic. with stamina its going to be like 2 skills off warden and the rest using the only few other skills that work or best in use. magicka will be along the same lines unless they decide to add new wep lines or the one handed/glyph thing. its just the way they do things and its not going to change,unless your going for a build that wont be for endgame or just going around solo/casually.
One Hand/Rune was probably the original Magicka variant of One Hand/Shield, but they discovered that Magical users were already becoming very powerful using One Hand/Shield. Anyways, we have the Ice Staff for that now which sucks but it's done now
Warden would be much better if Swarm had a Stam morph and Arctic Blast was a stationary AoE DoT like Eruption. That's my solution on solving the problem at least, since it'd actually work.
Here's hoping I'm allowed to run my Mag Warden DPS in score runs.....1 -
timidobserver✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭timidobserver wrote: »That is the point. I suspect that one goal of this class is to bolster the amount of healers and tanks in the group finder.
That's only if Warden players elect to play an actual Tank or Healer. Damage Dealing is the first thing that comes to mind when in a fight. Players don't immediately think "I need to Heal myself through this" or "I need to sustain the enemy to death", everyone just wants to throw skills at a thing until it dies.
Yup, I definitely didn't say that every Warden is going to be a healer or a tank. I am just saying that, since the class specializes in both of those roles, it's likely that there will be more tanks and healers in the game once it goes live. One of the points was probably to fix the group finder lack of real tanks and healers.Edited by timidobserver on April 16, 2017 2:46AMV16 Uriel Stormblessed EP Magicka Templar(main)
V16 Derelict Vagabond EP Stamina DK
V16 Redacted Ep Stam Sorc
V16 Insolent EP Magicka Sorc(retired)
V16 Jed I Nyte EP Stamina NB(retired)0 -
SanTii.92✭✭✭✭✭
✭Warden skills that do dmg are :
Dive
Scorch
Swarm
Bear (the bear by itself doesnt cost ult since its a pet and it can be up 100% of the time)
Arctic blast
Impaling shards
Crystallized Shield
Frozen gate
There you go. 8 abilities so its sort of balanced with the other classes. What you could do is count the available buffs from each class. Thats where things get out of balance.
we don't count bear since everyone has access to generic dps ults on comet and destro ult anyways, then all of which you have listed below that aren't skills worth consideration for dps setups.
The bear does not work like other ults. Thats literally what i said and the whole point why i listed it. All ultimates cost ult to do dmg. The bear ability costs ult to do dmg but the bear by itself doesnt. Its up 100% of the time and deals dmg without costing you anything.
I know that half of the abilities i listed are not considered DPS abilities. But the same applies for fragmented shield, petrify, stonefist, focused charge, blazing shield, mines, encase, agony etc which ironically were all listed and compared to warden abilities. You are comparing apples with oranges. Either they are all out or all in.
I'm well aware of that, but zos has stated that the bear will be on line with other ults dps-wise, altough still a bit stronger since you got to double bar it. If you want to count the bear, so you got to with soul harvest, or standard of might, etc.
You are saying that you are well aware of how it works and yet you keep comparing it with other ults. You cant compare it with other ults. Soul harvest, standard etc will not do dmg unless u have ult. The bear will always do dmg whether u have ult or not. Its special ability that u can activate can be compared with soul harvest etc. But the bear by itself will always do dmg regardless of its special ability. The fact that they said that its normal attacks will be in line with other ults actually makes it even stronger. That means that u basically have two ults. Its normal attacks will do enough dmg to be compared with other ults and its completely free, and on top of that u have its special ability that also does a ton of dmg as a bonus.
It's not me who compared it but Zos, when they said it's close, in terms of dps done, with other ults on the last Eso Live. Because if it were that strong, it would overshadow any other ult.
I know what they said and i just pointed that out. They said that we looked how much dmg ults do and adjusted the bear attacks to much that dmg. The issue is that the bear also has a special ability on top of that.
Anw i didnt mention the bear to start a debate on whether the bear will be strong or not and im also not debating on whether the warden will be good or not in PVE DPS. No one knows before we test it. I just responded and mentioned every warden ability that does dmg cause this whole thread started by comparing every single ability with any sort of dmg component attached to it, with only warden's actual DPS abilities.
Point we are argueing here is that there is no way warden can compete with other dpses with only 2 or 3 skills, agaisnt 5 or more that other clases have, and we feel like this a wrong approach for the game, and would like something to be done.
Of course we could see that swarm, dive and scorch (not bear cause we know it's comparable with comet and ele rage) are so strong that it will end up making the difference, but we hardly doubt it.When the snows fall and the white winds blow,
the lone wolf dies, but the pack survives.
Arg | Pc Na | Factionless Mag Warden.1
