Stamina DPS in PVE fixed for morrowind?

Ihatenightblades · April 2017

Tommy_The_Gun wrote: »

I totally agree with you. Stamina is weaker - and it simply make no seance. If you have for example a NB that has no dmg shield and you are forced to 1 - 2 shot you target in order to survive / heal - then what is the point of this class if mag build (especially mag sorcerers) do more dmg from a distance (and with a dmg shield) ?! This is not only PvE issue. The real problems start in PvP. Stamina builds used to be good - and this is probably the reason why they are not anymore - in PvP people complained about it, so it was nerfed.

PvP in ungodly unbalanced - we know that. 90% of cyrodiil PvP pollution are mag sorcerers for a reason (btw. what kind of class balance it is ?! ). Stamina in pvp is always weaker (even if you go for NB/race combo).

Now...lets take a look at mobas games (basically it is cyro PvP but with a much smaller scale - instead of 50 vs 50 you have 5 vs 5 with a preset of balanced skills for certain character). What is the biggest difference aside from that ?

Only stamina can crit. Magicka is mostly AOE with higher dmg, but with 0% crit chance. Only stamina (most often single - target) can crit. This is the reason why mobas are "better" balanced.

If I have a single target skill that deals the same dmg as an AOE dmg (yes everybody in certain area is getting hit for the same dmg as if 10 different people attacked them separately). What is the point of high singe target dmg when you have AOE that deal more dmg I ask ? It just make no seance...

Dude stam characters are fine in pvp dont start... i have 3 stam toons in heavy armor that are damn near invincible... AND do tons of damage.
Heavy armor with vigor and lingering health pots is the most OP you can be in this game.

Tell me a magicka class that can pop a heal then dps for 10 seconds WITHOUT having to apply shields. Ya you cant lol u would die.

Stam needs love in pve tho i no need to change pvp

LorDrek · April 2017

Give me poison standart.

Asardes · April 2017

Well, ZoS have pretty much fixed stamina DDs in Homestead. The same way you get a dog to the vet to have it fixed.

That's how it looks when you log back in after a major patch.
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Paulington · April 2017

Shadzilla wrote: »

Awesome response/pic. I have mained a stamblade since beta, regardless of how horrible the dps is I can never bench him. I just get driven to try and make posts like this, and get things changed. From what I have seen in the past, the only things that get changed are from literal forum QQing. Hopefully they listen to the very knowledgeable players that went out for testing. @Gilliamtherogue @Paulington considering you guys lead 2 of the most successful PVE guilds, did ZOS mention if they were going to look at this massive issue? I'm aware ZOS was informed by the players when you guys went out there, but I have not heard if they are actually planning on doing something. Hopefully that dirty little NDA isn't preventing responses, its been awhile.

I have to begin by saying I don't lead Hodor, merely an officer. The leader is @Alcast.

.

@Alcast was with us in Maryland and of course stamina balance stuff was brought up (everything was), but whether anything changes I have no idea. I am sure ZOS are looking into it.

.

LorDrek · April 2017

Paulington wrote: »

Shadzilla wrote: »

Awesome response/pic. I have mained a stamblade since beta, regardless of how horrible the dps is I can never bench him. I just get driven to try and make posts like this, and get things changed. From what I have seen in the past, the only things that get changed are from literal forum QQing. Hopefully they listen to the very knowledgeable players that went out for testing. @Gilliamtherogue @Paulington considering you guys lead 2 of the most successful PVE guilds, did ZOS mention if they were going to look at this massive issue? I'm aware ZOS was informed by the players when you guys went out there, but I have not heard if they are actually planning on doing something. Hopefully that dirty little NDA isn't preventing responses, its been awhile.

I have to begin by saying I don't lead Hodor, merely an officer. The leader is @Alcast. .

@Alcast was with us in Maryland and of course stamina balance stuff was brought up (everything was), but whether anything changes I have no idea. I am sure ZOS are looking into it. .

In 2030 ☺

Shadzilla · April 2017

Paulington wrote: »

Shadzilla wrote: »

Awesome response/pic. I have mained a stamblade since beta, regardless of how horrible the dps is I can never bench him. I just get driven to try and make posts like this, and get things changed. From what I have seen in the past, the only things that get changed are from literal forum QQing. Hopefully they listen to the very knowledgeable players that went out for testing. @Gilliamtherogue @Paulington considering you guys lead 2 of the most successful PVE guilds, did ZOS mention if they were going to look at this massive issue? I'm aware ZOS was informed by the players when you guys went out there, but I have not heard if they are actually planning on doing something. Hopefully that dirty little NDA isn't preventing responses, its been awhile.

I have to begin by saying I don't lead Hodor, merely an officer. The leader is @Alcast. .

@Alcast was with us in Maryland and of course stamina balance stuff was brought up (everything was), but whether anything changes I have no idea. I am sure ZOS are looking into it. .

Greatly appreciated. I'm sure they will be doing something about it for morrowind... Having magicka as the only viable option to dps all end game content is not exactly the ideal situation, for such a massive new player base recruiting opportunity like the drop of morrowind.

Emmagoldman · April 2017

Id like to see them add a new weapon such as pole arms which would be aoe focused

Shadzilla · April 2017

Emmagoldman wrote: »

Id like to see them add a new weapon such as pole arms which would be aoe focused

I would like to see better balance before anything like a new weapon skill line. They need to get their priorities in order.

Vosital · April 2017

Unless medium armor gets more damage or pen added to it, I don't see stamina setups being good. They randomly gave magika setups 8% more damage when they were already better than stamina. It makes no sense.

Stamden · April 2017

It's annoying when people think back to the brief point in time where stamina could slightly outparse magika in single target and cherrypick that example. These people need to realize:

1. The sacrifice to AoE DPS is more then enough to account for that slight edge in single target DPS
2. Stamina is way more risky to play due to lack of shields and melee range only
3. Stamina itself has always been bad, this brief moment of viability was due to the effectiveness of VMA weapons

Shadzilla · April 2017

Neighbor wrote: »

It's annoying when people think back to the brief point in time where stamina could slightly outparse magika in single target and cherrypick that example. These people need to realize:

1. The sacrifice to AoE DPS is more then enough to account for that slight edge in single target DPS
2. Stamina is way more risky to play due to lack of shields and melee range only
3. Stamina itself has always been bad, this brief moment of viability was due to the effectiveness of VMA weapons

Stamina has been incomparable to magicka for PVE dps for 90% of this games existence. It is really quite odd. All of your points made are very accurate, thank you for the post.

xeNNNNN · April 2017

Please no shield for stamplayers.

Honestly, I am so sick of dodgeplars and stamblades with 100% shuffle uptime.

Kay1 · April 2017

Mag Sorc or nothing

DragonBound · April 2017

Remember are the trolls saying we where whining to much and that stamina did not not need help its funny how quiet they are now.

caperon · April 2017

CosmicSoul wrote: »

Remember are the trolls saying we where whining to much and that stamina did not not need help its funny how quiet they are now.

For 90% of peopel doing vet trials is not a problem. You can go with 4-9 stamdd if you really want and complete the content, even they can do insane dps buffing each others. If you want to go for high scores (low deaths) then yes, you better are an excellent player with good knowldedge or better use magicka, but because of the shields, not the damage.

The only change stam needs is revert the trap dmg nerf, that should mean 3-5k more dps with bufs, puting stam clearly above in single target dps (stam still does more single target but not that much) with high risk, high reward. Ive seen stam dd using hundings rage pull 55k+ dps without any penetration debuf other than fracture, so...

Another desirable change would be nerf the pet dmg like 20%, puting mag sorcs in line with the rest of magicka dd (at least dk) and far from stam dk or stamblade. The thing is that mag sorc are overperforming, not that stam is lacking dmg.

pema · April 2017

I know the feeling. My main char has been put on the back burner, vMA is the only way to get a decent dps stat.
And I honestly hate MA, I like to do content with others.

The weird balance issues are also a thing I feel need addressing, zone is way to easy when you are endgame.
Then the gap between normal and vet trials is to big, making it harder on the kids to learn. It would be great if there was an in-between, normal vet xp for instance. or a way to lvl vet so you can train up.
ZOS choose to change mechanics on normal, how can people learn.

So when they adres Stam, can they also look to balancing of the content.

sneakymitchell · April 2017

Lynx7386 wrote: »

sneakymitchell wrote: »

Or just buff heavy armor so that way any magic or stam can use it for DPS. Game lacks variety. We always see the same thing everyone else is running. Skills, sets, and weapons.

You realize that if heavy were buffed so it could be used for dps, that's all anyone would ever use? That's the exact opposite of variety

Yes and the heavy armor is mostly due to pvp. Zenimax should look at both ends but in the end game it's all about pvp. Even though pve is still there and u just do normal dailies and do the trails with pretty much the same build like everyone else magic or stam. When players say "oh don't look at meta and do whatever.". But in the end u stick to the same set and armor piece like everyone else wears.

zaria · April 2017

caperon wrote: »

CosmicSoul wrote: »

Remember are the trolls saying we where whining to much and that stamina did not not need help its funny how quiet they are now.

For 90% of peopel doing vet trials is not a problem. You can go with 4-9 stamdd if you really want and complete the content, even they can do insane dps buffing each others. If you want to go for high scores (low deaths) then yes, you better are an excellent player with good knowldedge or better use magicka, but because of the shields, not the damage.

The only change stam needs is revert the trap dmg nerf, that should mean 3-5k more dps with bufs, puting stam clearly above in single target dps (stam still does more single target but not that much) with high risk, high reward. Ive seen stam dd using hundings rage pull 55k+ dps without any penetration debuf other than fracture, so...

Another desirable change would be nerf the pet dmg like 20%, puting mag sorcs in line with the rest of magicka dd (at least dk) and far from stam dk or stamblade. The thing is that mag sorc are overperforming, not that stam is lacking dmg.

I agree that stamina single target melee should be higher because the risk.
Pet sorc on the other hand is pretty fine, it has downside over the non pet sorc, perhaps an small nerf to daeric prey.
Else we are back to the setting where the only use for pet was to solo stuff.

zaria · April 2017

sneakymitchell wrote: »

Lynx7386 wrote: »

sneakymitchell wrote: »

Or just buff heavy armor so that way any magic or stam can use it for DPS. Game lacks variety. We always see the same thing everyone else is running. Skills, sets, and weapons.

You realize that if heavy were buffed so it could be used for dps, that's all anyone would ever use? That's the exact opposite of variety

Yes and the heavy armor is mostly due to pvp. Zenimax should look at both ends but in the end game it's all about pvp. Even though pve is still there and u just do normal dailies and do the trails with pretty much the same build like everyone else magic or stam. When players say "oh don't look at meta and do whatever.". But in the end u stick to the same set and armor piece like everyone else wears.

Because the calculations are so complex and testing stuff is so expensive most just play with meta.
Way more players do daily dungeons and perhaps an weekend trial with guild than pvp.
On the other hand far more pvp players than people having vMA weapons.

sneakymitchell · April 2017

zaria wrote: »

sneakymitchell wrote: »

Lynx7386 wrote: »

sneakymitchell wrote: »

Or just buff heavy armor so that way any magic or stam can use it for DPS. Game lacks variety. We always see the same thing everyone else is running. Skills, sets, and weapons.

You realize that if heavy were buffed so it could be used for dps, that's all anyone would ever use? That's the exact opposite of variety

Yes and the heavy armor is mostly due to pvp. Zenimax should look at both ends but in the end game it's all about pvp. Even though pve is still there and u just do normal dailies and do the trails with pretty much the same build like everyone else magic or stam. When players say "oh don't look at meta and do whatever.". But in the end u stick to the same set and armor piece like everyone else wears.

Because the calculations are so complex and testing stuff is so expensive most just play with meta.
Way more players do daily dungeons and perhaps an weekend trial with guild than pvp.
On the other hand far more pvp players than people having vMA weapons.

And with the amount of skills in the game. Like I can't think on top my head if there is this one skill that is just sucks and it's been in the game since launch.

potirondb16_ESO · April 2017

Actually stamina were underpower because magicka start using stamina skill in order to boost their dps (rearming trap) while stamina were left with the impossibility to use magicka stuff in order to boost their dps.

That's when it went crazy. Main way to reabilitate stamina is by giving them what magicka will lack in the new patch which is sustain and that will be probably go a long way for stamina user. What they will likely do next patch is kill CP for cost reduce and increase the bonus from armor for cost reduction while increasing skill cost. That will kill magicka build using stamina skill and balance overall dps inbetween genre.

sneakymitchell wrote: »

Or just buff heavy armor so that way any magic or stam can use it for DPS. Game lacks variety. We always see the same thing everyone else is running. Skills, sets, and weapons.

People are running the same thing because CP isn't helping class to differenciate each other. I think a lot of us would find normal that nighblade goes better with precise then sharpened, or that divines could be beat for DK as an example, with Something who's increasing dot power as a traits but as far as thing goes they have maintain a really standard bonus system which kill BiS diversity.

Heavy going dps though is a no go !

Dantaria · April 2017

zaria wrote: »

Pet sorc on the other hand is pretty fine, it has downside over the non pet sorc, perhaps an small nerf to daeric prey.
Else we are back to the setting where the only use for pet was to solo stuff.

I do understand that the topic is about stam, so this is technically offtop, but I can't keep silent...

PetSorcs are not fine. Nowhere near. And I main MagSorc.

Necropotence + Volatile Familiar + Daedric Pray = easy +8k DPS over "standard" MagSorc. PerSorc outperforms everything. Everything. They overdid it so much it isn't funny.

The only downside of the PerSorc is the need to heavily multitask. But. But! It only shows in super end-game content. [totally offtopic rant]Gosh, I'm so tired of idiots who don't look after their scamps and then say "Olololo, 5k+ DPS more then you, go but Necropotence"... Well, yes, my DPS is lower, but I'm also not a nuisance for a tank, you ***[/rant]

If you don't do vet trials for leaderboard you can simply change to pet and basically ignore everything. No repercussions.

It's not fine.

sneakymitchell · April 2017

potirondb16_ESO wrote: »

Actually stamina were underpower because magicka start using stamina skill in order to boost their dps (rearming trap) while stamina were left with the impossibility to use magicka stuff in order to boost their dps.

That's when it went crazy. Main way to reabilitate stamina is by giving them what magicka will lack in the new patch which is sustain and that will be probably go a long way for stamina user. What they will likely do next patch is kill CP for cost reduce and increase the bonus from armor for cost reduction while increasing skill cost. That will kill magicka build using stamina skill and balance overall dps inbetween genre.

sneakymitchell wrote: »

Or just buff heavy armor so that way any magic or stam can use it for DPS. Game lacks variety. We always see the same thing everyone else is running. Skills, sets, and weapons.

People are running the same thing because CP isn't helping class to differenciate each other. I think a lot of us would find normal that nighblade goes better with precise then sharpened, or that divines could be beat for DK as an example, with Something who's increasing dot power as a traits but as far as thing goes they have maintain a really standard bonus system which kill BiS diversity.

Heavy going dps though is a no go !

Then why some other games can make it viable? Like I can't tell if marketing "Be what u want" or something in the trailers before. Like this game is just going to the same old copy paste builds. And when games are like that players will later get bored of it cause if they try something different it wouldn't compete in pve trails or some vet duegeons and even DSA. Those builds are like going do a normal duegeon, trail, and DSA.

Shadzilla · April 2017

caperon wrote: »

CosmicSoul wrote: »

Remember are the trolls saying we where whining to much and that stamina did not not need help its funny how quiet they are now.

For 90% of peopel doing vet trials is not a problem. You can go with 4-9 stamdd if you really want and complete the content, even they can do insane dps buffing each others. If you want to go for high scores (low deaths) then yes, you better are an excellent player with good knowldedge or better use magicka, but because of the shields, not the damage.

The only change stam needs is revert the trap dmg nerf, that should mean 3-5k more dps with bufs, puting stam clearly above in single target dps (stam still does more single target but not that much) with high risk, high reward. Ive seen stam dd using hundings rage pull 55k+ dps without any penetration debuf other than fracture, so...

Another desirable change would be nerf the pet dmg like 20%, puting mag sorcs in line with the rest of magicka dd (at least dk) and far from stam dk or stamblade. The thing is that mag sorc are overperforming, not that stam is lacking dmg.

I cannot help but laugh at the incorrectness of your post. The 2 biggest things are shields and AOE damage. 90% of PVE content involves adds and/or trash packs. Stamina pulls maybe 70% of the aoe damage magicka does, without question, which is such a massive difference its not even funny. FYI stamina does not do more single target damage than magicka. Mag sorcs/dks out parse all stamina toons in single target scenarios. Does not make any sense considering stam has to be melee and has no shields, but we are all well aware of that.

I'm not sure who you have seen doing 55k+ single target on a stam toon in a trial... While wearing hundings and no debuff other than major fracture? Can you please stop fabricating things that did not happen, or at least provide some proof. The best stam players in the world cannot get 50k single target in trial bosses, they can with cleaving adds all over the place, but not single target. Very interested to hear who this magical 55k single target no debuffs stam player is though, if you would kindly direct me to them I would love to have the contact information. Until then, we will all know that you are trolling a very serious issue.

potirondb16_ESO · April 2017

sneakymitchell wrote: »

Or just buff heavy armor so that way any magic or stam can use it for DPS. Game lacks variety. We always see the same thing everyone else is running. Skills, sets, and weapons.

People are running the same thing because CP isn't helping class to differenciate each other. I think a lot of us would find normal that nighblade goes better with precise then sharpened, or that divines could be beat for DK as an example, with Something who's increasing dot power as a traits.

I think

sneakymitchell wrote: »

potirondb16_ESO wrote: »

Actually stamina were underpower because magicka start using stamina skill in order to boost their dps (rearming trap) while stamina were left with the impossibility to use magicka stuff in order to boost their dps.

That's when it went crazy. Main way to reabilitate stamina is by giving them what magicka will lack in the new patch which is sustain and that will be probably go a long way for stamina user. What they will likely do next patch is kill CP for cost reduce and increase the bonus from armor for cost reduction while increasing skill cost. That will kill magicka build using stamina skill and balance overall dps inbetween genre.

sneakymitchell wrote: »

Or just buff heavy armor so that way any magic or stam can use it for DPS. Game lacks variety. We always see the same thing everyone else is running. Skills, sets, and weapons.

People are running the same thing because CP isn't helping class to differenciate each other. I think a lot of us would find normal that nighblade goes better with precise then sharpened, or that divines could be beat for DK as an example, with Something who's increasing dot power as a traits but as far as thing goes they have maintain a really standard bonus system which kill BiS diversity.

Heavy going dps though is a no go !

Then why some other games can make it viable? Like I can't tell if marketing "Be what u want" or something in the trailers before. Like this game is just going to the same old copy paste builds. And when games are like that players will later get bored of it cause if they try something different it wouldn't compete in pve trails or some vet duegeons and even DSA. Those builds are like going do a normal duegeon, trail, and DSA.

ESO isn't a class base game, that's a main issue for the only thing left without solution which is Heavy Armor Dps. If Teso had multiple class with more or less define role then yes they could have dps in heavy armor such as did Wow or Eq back in the day. But since in ESO all class can tank/heal or dps the fact that they would dps efficiently in heavy armor would bring a huge toll on other armor class, a IMMENSE one in Cyrodill.

You'll notice though that there are heavy armor healer, and medium armor tank in this game though. Heavy armor dps can be done also but not as successfully, and it's good that way.

sneakymitchell · April 2017

@potirondb16_ESO I can see a heavy armor healer in pve can still be effective like light armor healers but they won't have crit heals or try do DPS. They will have all points to bless. And medium armor tanks will put all points mostly to block cost reduction and they can still be as effective as heavy armor tanks. Tanking and healing is mostly out of question for making builds cause they have not much to do. Tank just taunts adds from players and tries to buff the group. And healer just keep players alive and buffing them as well.

Shadzilla · April 2017

xeNNNNN wrote: »

Please no shield for stamplayers.

Honestly, I am so sick of dodgeplars and stamblades with 100% shuffle uptime.

I'm not sure if you were aware of the details of what I posted. Was asking for a morph of bone shield that is viable in PVE but does not work with battle spirit. Although on the pvp topic I would not mind some stam abilities along the lines of prox det and destro ult... Or a medium version of vicious death. I mean we have all seen the 1 man zerg bomber with prox det destro ult vicious death and grothdar wiping 75% of a 40 man group stacked on a flag. In the 3+ years of playing this game stamina has never had anything remotely close to zerg bombing... O WAIT WAIT WAIT, they buffed reverse slice my bad.

caperon · April 2017

Shadzilla wrote: »

caperon wrote: »

CosmicSoul wrote: »

Remember are the trolls saying we where whining to much and that stamina did not not need help its funny how quiet they are now.

For 90% of peopel doing vet trials is not a problem. You can go with 4-9 stamdd if you really want and complete the content, even they can do insane dps buffing each others. If you want to go for high scores (low deaths) then yes, you better are an excellent player with good knowldedge or better use magicka, but because of the shields, not the damage.

The only change stam needs is revert the trap dmg nerf, that should mean 3-5k more dps with bufs, puting stam clearly above in single target dps (stam still does more single target but not that much) with high risk, high reward. Ive seen stam dd using hundings rage pull 55k+ dps without any penetration debuf other than fracture, so...

Another desirable change would be nerf the pet dmg like 20%, puting mag sorcs in line with the rest of magicka dd (at least dk) and far from stam dk or stamblade. The thing is that mag sorc are overperforming, not that stam is lacking dmg.

I cannot help but laugh at the incorrectness of your post. The 2 biggest things are shields and AOE damage. 90% of PVE content involves adds and/or trash packs. Stamina pulls maybe 70% of the aoe damage magicka does, without question, which is such a massive difference its not even funny. FYI stamina does not do more single target damage than magicka. Mag sorcs/dks out parse all stamina toons in single target scenarios. Does not make any sense considering stam has to be melee and has no shields, but we are all well aware of that.

And what is incorrect about my post?

That unless you go for top scores you can bring lots of stamina dd? Ive done vAA, vHR, VSO with my social guild with 6 stam dd. Yes we wipe often and there are too much melee, but we finished.

That the problem with stamina is the survavility and the lack of shields? You say the same. And stamina dd can survive hm rakkat if they follow the mecanics and block when thay have to block, roll dodge when they have. Heck ive even seen a stam dd do the backyard with no vigor because runner died and survive. Its harder than just use harness magicka? true, can be done? Yes, ive seen it.

That stamina should do more single target damage? Don't you agree with that?

That stamina can do right now more single target dps? Go put sunderflame and nmg on the group and the rest of stam dd in hundings, tbs or whatever full dmg set and you will see.

That magicka sorcs are overperforming? Well, some groups are starting to use 5 or 6 maicka sorcs in trials. If that is not a sign of overperform, you tell me waht it is.

I didnt talk about the cleave damage, i agee, stamina is much lower. But what is the problem with that? I dont want everyone doing the same, i want a balanced game. Im perfectly fine with magicka doing more aoe damage if stamina does more single, but more than now. And anyway this is a consecuence of how the fights are designed.

I'm not sure who you have seen doing 55k+ single target on a stam toon in a trial... While wearing hundings and no debuff other than major fracture? Can you please stop fabricating things that did not happen, or at least provide some proof. The best stam players in the world cannot get 50k single target in trial bosses, they can with cleaving adds all over the place, but not single target. Very interested to hear who this magical 55k single target no debuffs stam player is though, if you would kindly direct me to them I would love to have the contact information. Until then, we will all know that you are trolling a very serious issue.

He is the only stam in this video (im there on a magicka sorc). Ive seen him do more st in Valariel or 1st boss hel ra.

Alcast in hard mode rakkat (kind of mobile fight):

Shadzilla · April 2017

caperon wrote: »

Shadzilla wrote: »

caperon wrote: »

CosmicSoul wrote: »

Remember are the trolls saying we where whining to much and that stamina did not not need help its funny how quiet they are now.

For 90% of peopel doing vet trials is not a problem. You can go with 4-9 stamdd if you really want and complete the content, even they can do insane dps buffing each others. If you want to go for high scores (low deaths) then yes, you better are an excellent player with good knowldedge or better use magicka, but because of the shields, not the damage.

The only change stam needs is revert the trap dmg nerf, that should mean 3-5k more dps with bufs, puting stam clearly above in single target dps (stam still does more single target but not that much) with high risk, high reward. Ive seen stam dd using hundings rage pull 55k+ dps without any penetration debuf other than fracture, so...

Another desirable change would be nerf the pet dmg like 20%, puting mag sorcs in line with the rest of magicka dd (at least dk) and far from stam dk or stamblade. The thing is that mag sorc are overperforming, not that stam is lacking dmg.

I cannot help but laugh at the incorrectness of your post. The 2 biggest things are shields and AOE damage. 90% of PVE content involves adds and/or trash packs. Stamina pulls maybe 70% of the aoe damage magicka does, without question, which is such a massive difference its not even funny. FYI stamina does not do more single target damage than magicka. Mag sorcs/dks out parse all stamina toons in single target scenarios. Does not make any sense considering stam has to be melee and has no shields, but we are all well aware of that.

And what is incorrect about my post?

That unless you go for top scores you can bring lots of stamina dd? Ive done vAA, vHR, VSO with my social guild with 6 stam dd. Yes we wipe often and there are too much melee, but we finished.

That the problem with stamina is the survavility and the lack of shields? You say the same. And stamina dd can survive hm rakkat if they follow the mecanics and block when thay have to block, roll dodge when they have. Heck ive even seen a stam dd do the backyard with no vigor because runner died and survive. Its harder than just use harness magicka? true, can be done? Yes, ive seen it.

That stamina should do more single target damage? Don't you agree with that?

That stamina can do right now more single target dps? Go put sunderflame and nmg on the group and the rest of stam dd in hundings, tbs or whatever full dmg set and you will see.

That magicka sorcs are overperforming? Well, some groups are starting to use 5 or 6 maicka sorcs in trials. If that is not a sign of overperform, you tell me waht it is.

I didnt talk about the cleave damage, i agee, stamina is much lower. But what is the problem with that? I dont want everyone doing the same, i want a balanced game. Im perfectly fine with magicka doing more aoe damage if stamina does more single, but more than now. And anyway this is a consecuence of how the fights are designed.

I'm not sure who you have seen doing 55k+ single target on a stam toon in a trial... While wearing hundings and no debuff other than major fracture? Can you please stop fabricating things that did not happen, or at least provide some proof. The best stam players in the world cannot get 50k single target in trial bosses, they can with cleaving adds all over the place, but not single target. Very interested to hear who this magical 55k single target no debuffs stam player is though, if you would kindly direct me to them I would love to have the contact information. Until then, we will all know that you are trolling a very serious issue.

https://www.twitch.tv/videos/134908699

He is the only stam in this video (im there on a magicka sorc). Ive seen him do more st in Valariel or 1st boss hel ra.

Alcast in hard mode rakkat (kind of mobile fight):

Alright buddy. First off that parse from alcast's stam dk is from 3 months ago. Don't bring outdated parses from 1/4 of a year ago into my thread and try to say that they are relevant for what is going on right now. That parse is also the main reason stamina was nerfed again coming into homestead. That is information that came out of @ZOS_RichLambert to some stam guys I know in PC NA. They all replied with "you shouldn't nerf stamina off of 1 parse, regardless of how good the player is." I'm sure Rich probably feels the same now. I will now list the things that I found incorrect in your previous post....

If you want to go for high scores (low deaths) then yes, you better are an excellent player with good knowldedge or better use magicka, but because of the shields, not the damage.
I'm going to have to disagree here. It is not just shields that is the issue. It is also damage. When stam toons are pulling 70% of what mag toons are for damage in trash packs, and are at least 5k+ behind in single target fights... You will not get better scores. Shields are a big part for sure, but saying that damage is not part of the issue is hilarious. More damage being done than the quicker everything dies, and you complete the trial. Resulting in a better score, can you agree with that? Call me crazy, but I think that damage has just as much of a role as shields do, if not more.
The only change stam needs is revert the trap dmg nerf, that should mean 3-5k more dps with bufs, puting stam clearly above in single target dps (stam still does more single target but not that much) with high risk, high reward. Ive seen stam dd using hundings rage pull 55k+ dps without any penetration debuf other than fracture, so...
That paragraph makes me laugh, please forgive me. Stam does not do better single target damage. Mag sorcs do much better single target damage, at range... Please link me a 55k+ video, the one you linked was 50. I also highly doubt major fracture was the only pen debuff on the boss. There is a pretty significant difference between 50 and 55... Mag sorcs pull 55 single on Zhaj'hassa, at range.
Another desirable change would be nerf the pet dmg like 20%, puting mag sorcs in line with the rest of magicka dd (at least dk) and far from stam dk or stamblade. The thing is that mag sorc are overperforming, not that stam is lacking dmg.
So the issue is that mag sorcs are overperforming, not that stam is lacking damage? Bruh..... I literally think you are the only one in this thread that has actually tried to say that. FACT = stamina does not do more damage in single target fights, they are not waaaaaay behind, but they are behind. Which absolutely makes no sense considering they are forced melee with no shields. FACT = 90% of PVE content is aoe, which stamina toons are doing around 70% the damage mag toons are. Stamina toons also do not compare to magicka in cleave damage. For you to say stamina is not lacking damage, is border line insane. @Alcast Can you confirm that parse is from January please.

sneakymitchell · April 2017

@Shadzilla And if players think after dark brotherhood was at a balance state but it's more the balance state to pvp and then when those pvp folks go in cp campaign they will face unkillable templars and maybe some other classes substain too much. In pve it's mostly the same thing for every player when doing builds in pvp it different cause u are mostly in a Zerg or 12 man group or over build diversity doesn't matter.