Tommy_The_Gun wrote: »

I totally agree with you. Stamina is weaker - and it simply make no seance. If you have for example a NB that has no dmg shield and you are forced to 1 - 2 shot you target in order to survive / heal - then what is the point of this class if mag build (especially mag sorcerers) do more dmg from a distance (and with a dmg shield) ?! This is not only PvE issue. The real problems start in PvP. Stamina builds used to be good - and this is probably the reason why they are not anymore - in PvP people complained about it, so it was nerfed.

PvP in ungodly unbalanced - we know that. 90% of cyrodiil PvP pollution are mag sorcerers for a reason (btw. what kind of class balance it is ?! ). Stamina in pvp is always weaker (even if you go for NB/race combo).

Now...lets take a look at mobas games (basically it is cyro PvP but with a much smaller scale - instead of 50 vs 50 you have 5 vs 5 with a preset of balanced skills for certain character). What is the biggest difference aside from that ?

Only stamina can crit. Magicka is mostly AOE with higher dmg, but with 0% crit chance. Only stamina (most often single - target) can crit. This is the reason why mobas are "better" balanced.

If I have a single target skill that deals the same dmg as an AOE dmg (yes everybody in certain area is getting hit for the same dmg as if 10 different people attacked them separately). What is the point of high singe target dmg when you have AOE that deal more dmg I ask ? It just make no seance...

Dude stam characters are fine in pvp dont start... i have 3 stam toons in heavy armor that are damn near invincible... AND do tons of damage.
Heavy armor with vigor and lingering health pots is the most OP you can be in this game.

Tell me a magicka class that can pop a heal then dps for 10 seconds WITHOUT having to apply shields. Ya you cant lol u would die.

Stam needs love in pve tho i no need to change pvp

Neighbor wrote: »

It's annoying when people think back to the brief point in time where stamina could slightly outparse magika in single target and cherrypick that example. These people need to realize:

1. The sacrifice to AoE DPS is more then enough to account for that slight edge in single target DPS
2. Stamina is way more risky to play due to lack of shields and melee range only
3. Stamina itself has always been bad, this brief moment of viability was due to the effectiveness of VMA weapons

Stamina has been incomparable to magicka for PVE dps for 90% of this games existence. It is really quite odd. All of your points made are very accurate, thank you for the post.

xeNNNNN wrote: »

Please no shield for stamplayers.

Honestly, I am so sick of dodgeplars and stamblades with 100% shuffle uptime.

I'm not sure if you were aware of the details of what I posted. Was asking for a morph of bone shield that is viable in PVE but does not work with battle spirit. Although on the pvp topic I would not mind some stam abilities along the lines of prox det and destro ult... Or a medium version of vicious death. I mean we have all seen the 1 man zerg bomber with prox det destro ult vicious death and grothdar wiping 75% of a 40 man group stacked on a flag. In the 3+ years of playing this game stamina has never had anything remotely close to zerg bombing... O WAIT WAIT WAIT, they buffed reverse slice my bad.

caperon wrote: »

Shadzilla wrote: »

caperon wrote: »

CosmicSoul wrote: »

Remember are the trolls saying we where whining to much and that stamina did not not need help its funny how quiet they are now.

For 90% of peopel doing vet trials is not a problem. You can go with 4-9 stamdd if you really want and complete the content, even they can do insane dps buffing each others. If you want to go for high scores (low deaths) then yes, you better are an excellent player with good knowldedge or better use magicka, but because of the shields, not the damage.

The only change stam needs is revert the trap dmg nerf, that should mean 3-5k more dps with bufs, puting stam clearly above in single target dps (stam still does more single target but not that much) with high risk, high reward. Ive seen stam dd using hundings rage pull 55k+ dps without any penetration debuf other than fracture, so...

Another desirable change would be nerf the pet dmg like 20%, puting mag sorcs in line with the rest of magicka dd (at least dk) and far from stam dk or stamblade. The thing is that mag sorc are overperforming, not that stam is lacking dmg.

I cannot help but laugh at the incorrectness of your post. The 2 biggest things are shields and AOE damage. 90% of PVE content involves adds and/or trash packs. Stamina pulls maybe 70% of the aoe damage magicka does, without question, which is such a massive difference its not even funny. FYI stamina does not do more single target damage than magicka. Mag sorcs/dks out parse all stamina toons in single target scenarios. Does not make any sense considering stam has to be melee and has no shields, but we are all well aware of that.

And what is incorrect about my post?

That unless you go for top scores you can bring lots of stamina dd? Ive done vAA, vHR, VSO with my social guild with 6 stam dd. Yes we wipe often and there are too much melee, but we finished.

That the problem with stamina is the survavility and the lack of shields? You say the same. And stamina dd can survive hm rakkat if they follow the mecanics and block when thay have to block, roll dodge when they have. Heck ive even seen a stam dd do the backyard with no vigor because runner died and survive. Its harder than just use harness magicka? true, can be done? Yes, ive seen it.

That stamina should do more single target damage? Don't you agree with that?

That stamina can do right now more single target dps? Go put sunderflame and nmg on the group and the rest of stam dd in hundings, tbs or whatever full dmg set and you will see.

That magicka sorcs are overperforming? Well, some groups are starting to use 5 or 6 maicka sorcs in trials. If that is not a sign of overperform, you tell me waht it is.

I didnt talk about the cleave damage, i agee, stamina is much lower. But what is the problem with that? I dont want everyone doing the same, i want a balanced game. Im perfectly fine with magicka doing more aoe damage if stamina does more single, but more than now. And anyway this is a consecuence of how the fights are designed.

I'm not sure who you have seen doing 55k+ single target on a stam toon in a trial... While wearing hundings and no debuff other than major fracture? Can you please stop fabricating things that did not happen, or at least provide some proof. The best stam players in the world cannot get 50k single target in trial bosses, they can with cleaving adds all over the place, but not single target. Very interested to hear who this magical 55k single target no debuffs stam player is though, if you would kindly direct me to them I would love to have the contact information. Until then, we will all know that you are trolling a very serious issue.

He is the only stam in this video (im there on a magicka sorc). Ive seen him do more st in Valariel or 1st boss hel ra.

Alcast in hard mode rakkat (kind of mobile fight):

Alright buddy. First off that parse from alcast's stam dk is from 3 months ago. Don't bring outdated parses from 1/4 of a year ago into my thread and try to say that they are relevant for what is going on right now. That parse is also the main reason stamina was nerfed again coming into homestead. That is information that came out of @ZOS_RichLambert to some stam guys I know in PC NA. They all replied with "you shouldn't nerf stamina off of 1 parse, regardless of how good the player is." I'm sure Rich probably feels the same now. I will now list the things that I found incorrect in your previous post....

If you want to go for high scores (low deaths) then yes, you better are an excellent player with good knowldedge or better use magicka, but because of the shields, not the damage.
I'm going to have to disagree here. It is not just shields that is the issue. It is also damage. When stam toons are pulling 70% of what mag toons are for damage in trash packs, and are at least 5k+ behind in single target fights... You will not get better scores. Shields are a big part for sure, but saying that damage is not part of the issue is hilarious. More damage being done than the quicker everything dies, and you complete the trial. Resulting in a better score, can you agree with that? Call me crazy, but I think that damage has just as much of a role as shields do, if not more.
The only change stam needs is revert the trap dmg nerf, that should mean 3-5k more dps with bufs, puting stam clearly above in single target dps (stam still does more single target but not that much) with high risk, high reward. Ive seen stam dd using hundings rage pull 55k+ dps without any penetration debuf other than fracture, so...
That paragraph makes me laugh, please forgive me. Stam does not do better single target damage. Mag sorcs do much better single target damage, at range... Please link me a 55k+ video, the one you linked was 50. I also highly doubt major fracture was the only pen debuff on the boss. There is a pretty significant difference between 50 and 55... Mag sorcs pull 55 single on Zhaj'hassa, at range.
Another desirable change would be nerf the pet dmg like 20%, puting mag sorcs in line with the rest of magicka dd (at least dk) and far from stam dk or stamblade. The thing is that mag sorc are overperforming, not that stam is lacking dmg.
So the issue is that mag sorcs are overperforming, not that stam is lacking damage? Bruh..... I literally think you are the only one in this thread that has actually tried to say that. FACT = stamina does not do more damage in single target fights, they are not waaaaaay behind, but they are behind. Which absolutely makes no sense considering they are forced melee with no shields. FACT = 90% of PVE content is aoe, which stamina toons are doing around 70% the damage mag toons are. Stamina toons also do not compare to magicka in cleave damage. For you to say stamina is not lacking damage, is border line insane. @Alcast Can you confirm that parse is from January please.