masterbroodub17_ESO wrote: »

sodantokb16_ESO wrote: »

Seriously tho. That ranged bonus damage on magicka morph IS EVEN F** BETTER THAN THE WHOLE RANGED PASSIVE ON BOW.

If we consider damage % passive of both weapons (flame staff vs bow) from max range it is (15% + 8%) vs 12%.

Magicka > stam at range even if both morphs were same, so this is just huge middle finger.

This isn't even a matter of a slight edge for min/max, they literally anally *** stam every chance they get.

What's wrong about that? Stam users might enjoy it...

Alcast wrote: »

GilGalad wrote: »

Alcast wrote: »

THAT is a very good question. @Wrobel

I guess if you want to be stamina you have to suffer in some way.

Why didn't you ask that question, when you were there at ZOS testing the Warden?

Feedback is Feedback

Edit:















well that didnt go as well as i had planned it

Edit:

:trollface:            :trollface: :trollface: :trollface:     :trollface: 
:trollface:          :trollface:        :trollface:    :trollface: 
:trollface:          :trollface:        :trollface:    :trollface: 
:trollface:          :trollface:        :trollface:    :trollface: 
:trollface: :trollface: :trollface:     :trollface: :trollface: :trollface:      :trollface: :trollface: :trollface: 

Told you Zos is biased to magicka, I just wanted a hunte/Ranger and they added yet a again another mage class.

DK- Fire/Earth mage in heavy armor
Templar- Sun mage in heavy armor
NightBlade- Dark mage in medium armor
Sorc - self explanatory
Warden - Nature mage in medium armor

Too much magic man.

Alcast wrote: »

GilGalad wrote: »

Alcast wrote: »

GilGalad wrote: »

Alcast wrote: »

THAT is a very good question. @Wrobel

I guess if you want to be stamina you have to suffer in some way.

Why didn't you ask that question, when you were there at ZOS testing the Warden?

Feedback is Feedback

Early feedback is way more valuable, since they have more time to think about changes, test and implement them.

There are many ways to improve this skill without making it too strong, like adding a short (2-4 sec) 30-40% snare to the stamina version.

I am well aware of that, what do you think we did there?

GilGalad wrote: »

Alcast wrote: »

GilGalad wrote: »

Alcast wrote: »

THAT is a very good question. @Wrobel

I guess if you want to be stamina you have to suffer in some way.

Why didn't you ask that question, when you were there at ZOS testing the Warden?

Feedback is Feedback

Edit:















well that didnt go as well as i had planned it

Edit:

:trollface:            :trollface: :trollface: :trollface:     :trollface: 
:trollface:          :trollface:        :trollface:    :trollface: 
:trollface:          :trollface:        :trollface:    :trollface: 
:trollface:          :trollface:        :trollface:    :trollface: 
:trollface: :trollface: :trollface:     :trollface: :trollface: :trollface:      :trollface: :trollface: :trollface: 

teach me senpai... and I am well aware of that, what do you think we did there?

Instead of failing to troll with a big lol you could have told us what feedback you actually gave and how they reacted. Make your decision if you want to be constructive and taken serious or not.

GilGalad wrote: »

Instead of failing to troll with a big lol you could have told us what feedback you actually gave and how they reacted. Make your decision if you want to be constructive and taken serious or not.

Alcast wrote: »

I would but do you know what a NDA is? I can assure you that all the Stamina boys talked about everything regarding stamina there.

Alcast wrote: »

GilGalad wrote: »

Alcast wrote: »

GilGalad wrote: »

Alcast wrote: »

GilGalad wrote: »

Alcast wrote: »

THAT is a very good question. @Wrobel

I guess if you want to be stamina you have to suffer in some way.

Why didn't you ask that question, when you were there at ZOS testing the Warden?

Feedback is Feedback

Early feedback is way more valuable, since they have more time to think about changes, test and implement them.

There are many ways to improve this skill without making it too strong, like adding a short (2-4 sec) 30-40% snare to the stamina version.

I am well aware of that, what do you think we did there?

GilGalad wrote: »

Alcast wrote: »

GilGalad wrote: »

Alcast wrote: »

THAT is a very good question. @Wrobel

I guess if you want to be stamina you have to suffer in some way.

Why didn't you ask that question, when you were there at ZOS testing the Warden?

Feedback is Feedback

Edit:















well that didnt go as well as i had planned it

Edit:

:trollface:            :trollface: :trollface: :trollface:     :trollface: 
:trollface:          :trollface:        :trollface:    :trollface: 
:trollface:          :trollface:        :trollface:    :trollface: 
:trollface:          :trollface:        :trollface:    :trollface: 
:trollface: :trollface: :trollface:     :trollface: :trollface: :trollface:      :trollface: :trollface: :trollface: 

teach me senpai... and I am well aware of that, what do you think we did there?

Instead of failing to troll with a big lol you could have told us what feedback you actually gave and how they reacted. Make your decision if you want to be constructive and taken serious or not.

I would but do you know what a NDA is? I can assure you that all the Stamina boys talked about everything regarding stamina there.

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

Gilliamtherogue wrote: »

MissBizz wrote: »

Gilliamtherogue wrote: »

There wasn't an NDA about this information?

Not for us at Pax. It's a public event, though I did ask before I did this just to be sure. @Gilliamtherogue

I wonder if this lifts the NDA portion about warden for the testers then...
@ZOS_GinaBruno :thinking:

Go for it.

But even if you don't want to talk about the cliff racer and warden specifically, what do you think would be useful side effects for a ranged stamina ability?

"Why doesn't the Cliff Racer's stam morph have an additional effect?"

Yes lets add an effect called Insta-Kill... or better yet AOE Insta-Kill...

(sorry for sarcasm I could not resist) xD

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aUx_kYh-hhs

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FYG0YWdkSKI

GilGalad wrote: »

Alcast wrote: »

GilGalad wrote: »

Alcast wrote: »

GilGalad wrote: »

Alcast wrote: »

GilGalad wrote: »

Alcast wrote: »

THAT is a very good question. @Wrobel

I guess if you want to be stamina you have to suffer in some way.

Why didn't you ask that question, when you were there at ZOS testing the Warden?

Feedback is Feedback

Early feedback is way more valuable, since they have more time to think about changes, test and implement them.

There are many ways to improve this skill without making it too strong, like adding a short (2-4 sec) 30-40% snare to the stamina version.

I am well aware of that, what do you think we did there?

GilGalad wrote: »

Alcast wrote: »

GilGalad wrote: »

Alcast wrote: »

THAT is a very good question. @Wrobel

I guess if you want to be stamina you have to suffer in some way.

Why didn't you ask that question, when you were there at ZOS testing the Warden?

Feedback is Feedback

Edit:















well that didnt go as well as i had planned it

Edit:

:trollface:            :trollface: :trollface: :trollface:     :trollface: 
:trollface:          :trollface:        :trollface:    :trollface: 
:trollface:          :trollface:        :trollface:    :trollface: 
:trollface:          :trollface:        :trollface:    :trollface: 
:trollface: :trollface: :trollface:     :trollface: :trollface: :trollface:      :trollface: :trollface: :trollface: 

teach me senpai... and I am well aware of that, what do you think we did there?

Instead of failing to troll with a big lol you could have told us what feedback you actually gave and how they reacted. Make your decision if you want to be constructive and taken serious or not.

I would but do you know what a NDA is? I can assure you that all the Stamina boys talked about everything regarding stamina there.

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

Gilliamtherogue wrote: »

MissBizz wrote: »

Gilliamtherogue wrote: »

There wasn't an NDA about this information?

Not for us at Pax. It's a public event, though I did ask before I did this just to be sure. @Gilliamtherogue

I wonder if this lifts the NDA portion about warden for the testers then...
@ZOS_GinaBruno :thinking:

Go for it.

But even if you don't want to talk about the cliff racer and warden specifically, what do you think would be useful side effects for a ranged stamina ability?

For example, add minor brutality to the stamina morph. Or add 10% cost reduction to the skill as resource management is lackluster with the class.

Also, the Fetcher Flies Growing Swarm needs a stamina AoE Morph as stamina lacks AoE damage compared to Magicka. So that would be the perfect morph for it.

What would you add?

The problem with this class is, it is very difficult to balance it both for PvE and PvP. It has access to many Major buffs and healing if you give it a lot more damage it will become very strong in PvP.

However, only those two changes would make the warden already more competitive in PvE as a stamina setup. Resource management is another thing. The Belly Netch is not enough. Stamina Warden and Stamina Templar will both have issues next patch with the cost reduction changes.

I think there will be a lot of changes to skill lines in general that we are not aware off yet. I hope they revamp the 2H Skill Line a bit to make it competitive in PvE.

Alcast wrote: »

GilGalad wrote: »

Alcast wrote: »

GilGalad wrote: »

Alcast wrote: »

GilGalad wrote: »

Alcast wrote: »

GilGalad wrote: »

Alcast wrote: »

THAT is a very good question. @Wrobel

I guess if you want to be stamina you have to suffer in some way.

Why didn't you ask that question, when you were there at ZOS testing the Warden?

Feedback is Feedback

Early feedback is way more valuable, since they have more time to think about changes, test and implement them.

There are many ways to improve this skill without making it too strong, like adding a short (2-4 sec) 30-40% snare to the stamina version.

I am well aware of that, what do you think we did there?

GilGalad wrote: »

Alcast wrote: »

GilGalad wrote: »

Alcast wrote: »

THAT is a very good question. @Wrobel

I guess if you want to be stamina you have to suffer in some way.

Why didn't you ask that question, when you were there at ZOS testing the Warden?

Feedback is Feedback

Edit:















well that didnt go as well as i had planned it

Edit:

:trollface:            :trollface: :trollface: :trollface:     :trollface: 
:trollface:          :trollface:        :trollface:    :trollface: 
:trollface:          :trollface:        :trollface:    :trollface: 
:trollface:          :trollface:        :trollface:    :trollface: 
:trollface: :trollface: :trollface:     :trollface: :trollface: :trollface:      :trollface: :trollface: :trollface: 

teach me senpai... and I am well aware of that, what do you think we did there?

Instead of failing to troll with a big lol you could have told us what feedback you actually gave and how they reacted. Make your decision if you want to be constructive and taken serious or not.

I would but do you know what a NDA is? I can assure you that all the Stamina boys talked about everything regarding stamina there.

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

Gilliamtherogue wrote: »

MissBizz wrote: »

Gilliamtherogue wrote: »

There wasn't an NDA about this information?

Not for us at Pax. It's a public event, though I did ask before I did this just to be sure. @Gilliamtherogue

I wonder if this lifts the NDA portion about warden for the testers then...
@ZOS_GinaBruno :thinking:

Go for it.

But even if you don't want to talk about the cliff racer and warden specifically, what do you think would be useful side effects for a ranged stamina ability?

For example, add minor brutality to the stamina morph. Or add 10% cost reduction to the skill as resource management is lackluster with the class.

Also, the Fetcher Flies Growing Swarm needs a stamina AoE Morph as stamina lacks AoE damage compared to Magicka. So that would be the perfect morph for it.

What would you add?

The problem with this class is, it is very difficult to balance it both for PvE and PvP. It has access to many Major buffs and healing if you give it a lot more damage it will become very strong in PvP.

However, only those two changes would make the warden already more competitive in PvE as a stamina setup. Resource management is another thing. The Belly Netch is not enough. Stamina Warden and Stamina Templar will both have issues next patch with the cost reduction changes.

I think there will be a lot of changes to skill lines in general that we are not aware off yet. I hope they revamp the 2H Skill Line a bit to make it competitive in PvE.

The problem with Cliff Racer on a stam char is that it competes with snipe on a bow build and flurry in melee range. The bow passives, especially the higher dmg with increasing distance makes it hard to compete at long range. Flurry especially with MSA weapons is also very powerful, but requires you to stay in melee range.
I could see the skill fill a niche in between by giving it bonus dmg when closer than 15m. For a bow build it would make it an alternative in fights where you can't make use of the long shot passive and for a dual wield build it would still be a decent spamable in fights where you cant always stay close. Like this it would not be much stronger in PvP because you have to expose yourself to get the extra dmg.
From a class balance perspective I dont wan them to add minor brutatlity to any skill. Every class has its unique minor buff (dk minor brutality, temp minor sorcery, ...) that it provides for the whole group, therefore it's an incentive to include a large variety of classes in groups.
Cost reduction would also be a good alternative, maybe in the form of a minor stamina steal debuff, even though that would be very strong. Maybe its better to add minor stamina steal to the Corrupting Pollen morph in order to help stamina players in general with sustain.

I totally agree on the Growing Swarm as stamina morph. In combination with the shalks aoe every 3-4 seconds and endless hail, the warden could finally be a stamina class with decent cleave dmg.

Alcast wrote: »

@GilGalad

I just really do not want end up playing a weapon skill line instead of the class like with most Stamina setups these days >.>

I really hope they made some additional changes to Dualwield or 2H Skill line to make stamina more comeptitive in PvE.

well said here @Alcast
how great it would be to be able to use the stam-Warden class skills effectively as a stam build, instead of every class having to go Endless Hail and Flurry

The problem is also the same with the bear ultimate. Mag gets extra with the morh... again. Sad so sad...

Alcast wrote: »

@GilGalad

I would use that skill anytime over Snipe as I just feel Snipe with light attack weaving has a very clunky animation. So lets hope this one is smoother.... I will definitely try out a bow build... Bowbuild combined with the Bear could be very strong. The problem is, as long as the class does not have a stamina based DoT it will just miss something.

And even as a bowbuild, you will most likely end up with melee in PvE lol

There is one in the tanking tree but it scales of health and is frost damage. On a magicka setup it still did approx 3k Single Target dps so maybe on stamina it might do 2k.. which is rather weak. I just really do not want end up playing a weapon skill line instead of the class like with most Stamina setups these days >.>

Once PTS drops I will definitely make sure and test Stamina warden more...and keep QQing for them to change stuff. I really hope they made some additional changes to Dualwield or 2H Skill line to make stamina more comeptitive in PvE.

Yeah I have the same feeling about weaving snipe, but when doing short medium attacks it feels much better. Problem with medium attacks is that they remove the off-balance, therefore reducing the effect of the exploiter CP passive.

The problem with impaling shards is the 6m radius. As far as I understood it, it is caster based so you have to be really close and it wont be very effective if you have to move. Does anyone know if it uses spellcrit or the higher value?
If it uses spellcrit then it will might do even less dmg on a stam build.

I hope the PTS drops really soon, so there is enough time to give feedback and hopefully improve some stuff.

only reason I can think of to chose a class skill before weapon skills, is if the class have some kind of passives combined with that skill. NB's have crit dmg while having assassination skill slotted for example.

Alcast wrote: »

GilGalad wrote: »

Alcast wrote: »

@GilGalad

I would use that skill anytime over Snipe as I just feel Snipe with light attack weaving has a very clunky animation. So lets hope this one is smoother.... I will definitely try out a bow build... Bowbuild combined with the Bear could be very strong. The problem is, as long as the class does not have a stamina based DoT it will just miss something.

And even as a bowbuild, you will most likely end up with melee in PvE lol

There is one in the tanking tree but it scales of health and is frost damage. On a magicka setup it still did approx 3k Single Target dps so maybe on stamina it might do 2k.. which is rather weak. I just really do not want end up playing a weapon skill line instead of the class like with most Stamina setups these days >.>

Once PTS drops I will definitely make sure and test Stamina warden more...and keep QQing for them to change stuff. I really hope they made some additional changes to Dualwield or 2H Skill line to make stamina more comeptitive in PvE.

Yeah I have the same feeling about weaving snipe, but when doing short medium attacks it feels much better. Problem with medium attacks is that they remove the off-balance, therefore reducing the effect of the exploiter CP passive.

The problem with impaling shards is the 6m radius. As far as I understood it, it is caster based so you have to be really close and it wont be very effective if you have to move. Does anyone know if it uses spellcrit or the higher value?
If it uses spellcrit then it will might do even less dmg on a stam build.

I hope the PTS drops really soon, so there is enough time to give feedback and hopefully improve some stuff.

I would love to see the Impaling shards work like Eruption, so you can place it from further away. The thing is its in the "tanking" tree and thats prolly why its around the person..... I rly wish they wouldnt just cut off all those 3 seperate trees.

I think they should make the morph that has just reduced cost be a ground target AOE. So you have the choice between something like talons (6m aoe with dot and root) and eruption. One could think about making the ground target a magicka morph, since it will most likely dont do a lot of dmg on a stamina build thanks to CP.

Another idea for the stamina morphs of Cliff Race and Bear: Just add some splash dmg in a small radius like 4m.