Dear ZOS, don't let double bank for subber happen

Lyserus · April 2017

You know that when you are obviously trying hard, it will actually make the negative effect?

Few days ago you guys says “Oh Most of the people don't upgrade their bank so no need for storage in housing!” and now you are like “so to increase the value of subscription we are giving subbers——more storage! You guys sure love it!”

This is not how it works.

You could give subbers all kinds of benefit that make ppl want to sub （like double speed for trait research and mount training while online, or free pvp items Every week, hell even a pvp item bag is welcome), but no you have to give the burden to storage alone.
And that will lead to, when people are forced to find a way （mule, mailing each other, second account etc） to solve the storage provlem, the decline of subscription.

I will Seriously consider quit the sub （not the game, and i will buy things in crown store to Support ZOS, but I probably won't sub anymore because I don't like the way this is going）, and I know I am not the only one.

So ZOS, if you really want to make more people sub, give us something else except for storage

Aliyavana · April 2017

Lyserus wrote: »

You know that when you are obviously trying hard, it will actually make the negative effect?

Few days ago you guys says “Oh Most of the people don't upgrade their bank so no need for storage in housing!” and now you are like “so to increase the value of subscription we are giving subbers——more storage! You guys sure love it!”

This is not how it works.

You could give subbers all kinds of benefit that make ppl want to sub （like double speed for trait research and mount training while online, or free pvp items Every week, hell even a pvp item bag is welcome), but no you have to give the burden to storage alone.
And that will lead to, when people are forced to find a way （mule, mailing each other, second account etc） to solve the storage provlem, the decline of subscription.

I will Seriously consider quit the sub （not the game, and i will buy things in crown store to Support ZOS, but I probably won't sub anymore because I don't like the way this is going）, and I know I am not the only one.

So ZOS, if you really want to make more people sub, give us something else except for storage

People complaining about free stuff? Nothing new here

Tremors · April 2017

I'm pumped for the storage. If you ask me, it's one of the best things they could give subscribers.

People who don't have upgraded space don't play enough to care. People who have upgraded space are probably still struggling to make room for everything. Doubling that gives current subscribers more reason to stay, and those who aren't, reason to join.

SleepyTroll · April 2017

Yea I'm all for the storage increase ZOS!

Graydon · April 2017

Lyserus wrote: »

You know that when you are obviously trying hard, it will actually make the negative effect?

Few days ago you guys says “Oh Most of the people don't upgrade their bank so no need for storage in housing!” and now you are like “so to increase the value of subscription we are giving subbers——more storage! You guys sure love it!”

This is not how it works.

You could give subbers all kinds of benefit that make ppl want to sub （like double speed for trait research and mount training while online, or free pvp items Every week, hell even a pvp item bag is welcome), but no you have to give the burden to storage alone.
And that will lead to, when people are forced to find a way （mule, mailing each other, second account etc） to solve the storage provlem, the decline of subscription.

I will Seriously consider quit the sub （not the game, and i will buy things in crown store to Support ZOS, but I probably won't sub anymore because I don't like the way this is going）, and I know I am not the only one.

So ZOS, if you really want to make more people sub, give us something else except for storage

Wait...what?

Such an informative and useful post.

I think I've learned:

1. You are subbing not subbing but subbing.

2. Extra storage sucks.

3. You think threatening ZOS will be taken seriously.

4. You are important.

Rate the OP 4 stars if I could!

Lyserus · April 2017

RedVyperOfDorne wrote: »

I'm pumped for the storage. If you ask me, it's one of the best things they could give subscribers.

People who don't have upgraded space don't play enough to care. People who have upgraded space are probably still struggling to make room for everything. Doubling that gives current subscribers more reason to stay, and those who aren't, reason to join.

*sign…who don't want free stuff? you are missing the point here.

A company recently decided they will not give storage to players because “they don't need it". Well we could Say that ZOS didn't know how is the real situation, we could. But now they are throwing storage to subber because they actually know people want it? They just lied in front of us all.

As a subber （currently）of course I want storage, but I don't feel comfotable giving money on a monthly basis to a company which would do this to make more money from customers, to me that is a big uncertainty to the quality of future contents, and that's why I will stick with one time purchase now

radiostar · April 2017

Thing is, we don't know how many more sets are dropping with Morrowind. Those extra slots may come in very handy. So no, everyone wants to get them.

Hvzeda · April 2017

I say we give subbers the right to post on the forums and non-subbers can't post in the forums. Would probably reduce the number complaining and QQing posts.

cmetzger93 · April 2017

I wish they would do something else besides storage too. Faster trait research and gear restyling comes to mind

MakoFore · April 2017

actually it just made me sign up- and i had every DLC, and all the existing features of the +- i just really really need the storage. at 140 bucks a year- its bugger all for any working adult. and if your a teen- ask for your dads credit card. given how much we spend on movies, netflix, etc- its not so bad to support a game which we play every day. its when they abuse our money is when i get pissed. double storage is a good thing- crown crates is not. this is a step towards better customer value which I'm not mad about.

Shadowasrial · April 2017

I think they should double storage for all players subs and non subs and double the double storage for the subs. Because to be honest if this dlc is as big as they say it is we are going to need space regardless if your new or not. So double it and then double it again for subs.

Wrecking_Blow_Spam · April 2017

Lyserus wrote: »

RedVyperOfDorne wrote: »

I'm pumped for the storage. If you ask me, it's one of the best things they could give subscribers.

People who don't have upgraded space don't play enough to care. People who have upgraded space are probably still struggling to make room for everything. Doubling that gives current subscribers more reason to stay, and those who aren't, reason to join.

*sign…who don't want free stuff? you are missing the point here.

A company recently decided they will not give storage to players because “they don't need it". Well we could Say that ZOS didn't know how is the real situation, we could. But now they are throwing storage to subber because they actually know people want it? They just lied in front of us all.

As a subber （currently）of course I want storage, but I don't feel comfotable giving money on a monthly basis to a company which would do this to make more money from customers, to me that is a big uncertainty to the quality of future contents, and that's why I will stick with one time purchase now

I agree with you OP.

This is a sign of the game becoming P2W. Craft bag is insanely good already and for any end game player with multiple characters; the bank space isn't enough.
Mules are needed.

[SNIp]

I don't and won't sub out of principle, inventory is a massive headache.
I've got my own guild bank which helps but all these BoP items are a pain to manage.

[Edited for Bashing]

Dagoth_Rac · April 2017

Lyserus wrote: »

You could give subbers all kinds of benefit that make ppl want to sub （like double speed for trait research and mount training while online, or free pvp items Every week, hell even a pvp item bag is welcome)

Those are horrible sub incentives. They are all one-and-done bonuses, even if you have a bunch of characters. Once you learn the traits and train the mounts, the sub becomes useless. And PvP bags? They almost always have garbage in them. Plus, I can earn/buy them very cheaply in game if they interest me. The key to a successful sub incentive is:

1). Not available in game otherwise.
2). Does not give subscribed players better stats or other combat advantages.
3). Always useful. Useful on new characters, useful on max characters, useful on Day 1 of monthly subscription, useful on Day 30 of monthly subscription.

The crafting bag and extra bank storage fit this perfectly.

Klarick · April 2017

I love it! More space

WldKarde · April 2017

Had an ACTIVE sub since launch...I know, I know....So what?

Yep that's my point. I payed to be able to play the game. But then I found out that I liked it.

Guess what? I continued to sub!

Sure I don't have to anymore...but for the amount of entertainment I get for $15 a months then and now is worth it!

If ZOS wants to sweeten the deal even more...for something I already feel is worth it.

Well thank you!

Just one Knuckleheads opinion

Avran_Sylt · April 2017

Wrecking_Blow_Spam wrote: »

Lyserus wrote: »

RedVyperOfDorne wrote: »

I'm pumped for the storage. If you ask me, it's one of the best things they could give subscribers.

People who don't have upgraded space don't play enough to care. People who have upgraded space are probably still struggling to make room for everything. Doubling that gives current subscribers more reason to stay, and those who aren't, reason to join.

*sign…who don't want free stuff? you are missing the point here.

A company recently decided they will not give storage to players because “they don't need it". Well we could Say that ZOS didn't know how is the real situation, we could. But now they are throwing storage to subber because they actually know people want it? They just lied in front of us all.

As a subber （currently）of course I want storage, but I don't feel comfotable giving money on a monthly basis to a company which would do this to make more money from customers, to me that is a big uncertainty to the quality of future contents, and that's why I will stick with one time purchase now

I agree with you OP.

This is a sign of the game becoming P2W. Craft bag is insanely good already and for any end game player with multiple characters; the bank space isn't enough.
Mules are needed.

[SNIp]

I don't and won't sub out of principle, inventory is a massive headache.
I've got my own guild bank which helps but all these BoP items are a pain to manage.

[Edited for Bashing]

Yay, @Wrecking_Blow_Spam I like your motto:

I like your game. I'm going to play it, put a lot of time into the game. use it to play with friends. Buuut, I don't want to pay you. You should learn how to make a game without money. How dare you even suggest I pay you for the entertainment you brought me? This game is mine, I like it.

Course I'm inferring a lot from a little, but c'mon. You really think that your initial purchase is all ZOS needs in order to cover all their expenses?

This isn't a single player game that has one version released, and that's it, with the publisher hoping sales is enough to cover the game budget. It's a game that requires continual maintenance, and additional content to be created. So the cost of making/maintaining the game continues to grow. So of course they'd want to provide incentive to the playerbase to support them.

STEVIL · April 2017

Lyserus wrote: »

RedVyperOfDorne wrote: »

I'm pumped for the storage. If you ask me, it's one of the best things they could give subscribers.

People who don't have upgraded space don't play enough to care. People who have upgraded space are probably still struggling to make room for everything. Doubling that gives current subscribers more reason to stay, and those who aren't, reason to join.

*sign…who don't want free stuff? you are missing the point here.

A company recently decided they will not give storage to players because “they don't need it". Well we could Say that ZOS didn't know how is the real situation, we could. But now they are throwing storage to subber because they actually know people want it? They just lied in front of us all.

As a subber （currently）of course I want storage, but I don't feel comfotable giving money on a monthly basis to a company which would do this to make more money from customers, to me that is a big uncertainty to the quality of future contents, and that's why I will stick with one time purchase now

Ok so i know you might not have a grasp on this but...

there is a difference between "active players" and "subbers" so stats about storage utilization for "active players" mean little to nothing about the storage utilization for the subset of active players referred to by you as "subbers."

You and i don't know the difference in storage utilization or need between those two sets, but someone like oh say ZOS does and maybe, just ,maybe, kinda their decision to give extra bank storage to "subbers" was guided by that knowledge.

In short, your conclusion that the two positions are somehow at odds with each other ignores key lacks in your knowledge of the sets.

Congrats though, you have presented a live example of one of the classic fallacies. (While all elephants are mammals not all mammals are elephants)

So kudos to you for that.

SydneyGrey · April 2017

This affects you not at all.

I want more bank space. Deal with it.

Acrolas · April 2017

The perks aren't really the problem though.

The problem is that every year there's some sort of major revision that suggests a lack of a long-term written plan. And so long as it feels like they're being whimsical and unpredictable on their end, one can't help but feel at least a little bit wary about what next year's revisions will be.

Because we've all probably seen at least one company and one game/site where that next revision was a GAME OVER. And beforehand the ownership was either, "Everything's fine" or completely silent. Even though the constant restructuring and weird monetization said otherwise.

We've all probably seen the small business guy who said, "So long as just one person is interested, I'm going to keep doing this," and then he stops doing it the next year because he found something he likes better.

It's not 1995. We see the rise and fall of something in real time every single week. I'm okay with the ESO+ perks as they are right now. The perk I want for everybody is that this team will speak up early if there's ever a problem, not wait until the train full of ships is crashing and burning and sinking before saying, look we need to have a serious discussion about the future.

THAT is what keeps us playing the long game. Not bank space. Not expansions. But a two-way circuit of trust between the community and the developers. Because people can only take so much shuffling and change before they said *** this. ZOS has through Morrowind to enjoy this TES3 anniversary campaign. But starting in July, a little more insight on why past schedules did not work, and a little more empirical assurance that this new schedule is both reasonable for them and sustainable for us all.

And then keep talking to us regularly. They should know by now that we don't like silence. Nobody does, really. But even a programmer or art team article shows that somebody is willing to share some new information, even if it won't appeal to every person playing the game.

... what was this thread about again?

BigBragg · April 2017

aliyavana wrote: »

Lyserus wrote: »

You know that when you are obviously trying hard, it will actually make the negative effect?

Few days ago you guys says “Oh Most of the people don't upgrade their bank so no need for storage in housing!” and now you are like “so to increase the value of subscription we are giving subbers——more storage! You guys sure love it!”

This is not how it works.

You could give subbers all kinds of benefit that make ppl want to sub （like double speed for trait research and mount training while online, or free pvp items Every week, hell even a pvp item bag is welcome), but no you have to give the burden to storage alone.
And that will lead to, when people are forced to find a way （mule, mailing each other, second account etc） to solve the storage provlem, the decline of subscription.

I will Seriously consider quit the sub （not the game, and i will buy things in crown store to Support ZOS, but I probably won't sub anymore because I don't like the way this is going）, and I know I am not the only one.

So ZOS, if you really want to make more people sub, give us something else except for storage

People complaining about free stuff? Nothing new here

Please, teach me how to sub for free!

Robvenom · April 2017

Lyserus wrote: »

You know that when you are obviously trying hard, it will actually make the negative effect?

Few days ago you guys says “Oh Most of the people don't upgrade their bank so no need for storage in housing!” and now you are like “so to increase the value of subscription we are giving subbers——more storage! You guys sure love it!”

This is not how it works.

You could give subbers all kinds of benefit that make ppl want to sub （like double speed for trait research and mount training while online, or free pvp items Every week, hell even a pvp item bag is welcome), but no you have to give the burden to storage alone.
And that will lead to, when people are forced to find a way （mule, mailing each other, second account etc） to solve the storage provlem, the decline of subscription.

I will Seriously consider quit the sub （not the game, and i will buy things in crown store to Support ZOS, but I probably won't sub anymore because I don't like the way this is going）, and I know I am not the only one.

So ZOS, if you really want to make more people sub, give us something else except for storage

Cya, i'll be here enjoying my extra storage.

KochDerDamonen · April 2017

I do not like the implications of the sub inventory doubling...
- It benefits me personally literally none, my bank and bags are already not full thanks to the craft bag.
- It even further increases an actual gameplay disparity between subs and non-subs
- If it goes forward, who's to say what more intrusive in-game effects might be available for real money...
- It shows a lack of willingness to budge on more interesting things to hand to subscribers (gem allotment added to crowns to make some crown crate items obtainable to loyal subs without gambling, increase limit of friends/ignore lists, possibility of live chats with customer service instead of delayed mail, three options off the top of my head...)
- It's a pittance of an attempt to appease subscribers who have seen very little usage of their access to paid dlc content, what with the last two patches (1T, Housing) being base game updates and the next coming patch being a 'chapter' which is not covered by the subscription.

I don't like it. My sub has already lapsed and I have no incentive to pick it back up again. I had fun with this game while I had people to play with and the time to blow on helping new players get into the game more. I log in to do my writs and feed mounts occasionally, but I'm not into doing the same old dungeons with PUGs any longer...

I wouldn't buy Morrowind right now, but I've already pre-ordered it on an impulse. The state of the game post-Morrowind is a road and one of the forks rides off a cliff. That is, whether ESO will become a daily-ish game for me again or become uninstalled

(yes you can have my stuff if I quit, I have some very nice... well you can't really have the motifs, my main has already read them)

idk · April 2017

Lyserus wrote: »

Few days ago you guys says “Oh Most of the people don't upgrade their bank so no need for storage in housing!”

@Lyserus

I never heard that comment unless they really did say something new a few days ago.

What I recall is Zos stated that storate was not added to housing because only 3% had maxed out their inventory. Please provide a link to what was stated a few days ago since I expect it was an interesting read. Thanks.

Oh, and adding this extra storage to the ESO+ is a fabulous incentive for subscribing.

I really like how ESO incentivizes subscriptions over what I have seen in other games since it is not about punishing the non-sub playability of the game. In another major MMO with a similar business model I have seen PvP, end game raiding (trials regardless of access otherwise) ability to equp epic gear, crafting severely limited and XP reduced to a fraction for those that did not have subscriptions.

Edit: and the addition to inventory space for subs is great because of the lack of inventory we have for those that have maxed out. This and the crafting bag are the best perks they could add.

Wrecking_Blow_Spam · April 2017

BigBragg wrote: »

aliyavana wrote: »

Lyserus wrote: »

You know that when you are obviously trying hard, it will actually make the negative effect?

Few days ago you guys says “Oh Most of the people don't upgrade their bank so no need for storage in housing!” and now you are like “so to increase the value of subscription we are giving subbers——more storage! You guys sure love it!”

This is not how it works.

You could give subbers all kinds of benefit that make ppl want to sub （like double speed for trait research and mount training while online, or free pvp items Every week, hell even a pvp item bag is welcome), but no you have to give the burden to storage alone.
And that will lead to, when people are forced to find a way （mule, mailing each other, second account etc） to solve the storage provlem, the decline of subscription.

I will Seriously consider quit the sub （not the game, and i will buy things in crown store to Support ZOS, but I probably won't sub anymore because I don't like the way this is going）, and I know I am not the only one.

So ZOS, if you really want to make more people sub, give us something else except for storage

People complaining about free stuff? Nothing new here

Please, teach me how to sub for free!

So much this ^^^

I'm ok with subscribers having crafting bag but come on, seriously Zo$?
Giving them actual bank space and non subscribers get jack crap? That's some bullcrap.

Non subs NEED extra bank space too.

method__01 · April 2017

dont care about stuff or pvp items,need the extra storage so i can free one of my mule toons
even my mains are filled with maps and motif pages

plz give us more space

Cpt_Teemo · April 2017

BigBragg wrote: »

aliyavana wrote: »

Lyserus wrote: »

You know that when you are obviously trying hard, it will actually make the negative effect?

Few days ago you guys says “Oh Most of the people don't upgrade their bank so no need for storage in housing!” and now you are like “so to increase the value of subscription we are giving subbers——more storage! You guys sure love it!”

This is not how it works.

You could give subbers all kinds of benefit that make ppl want to sub （like double speed for trait research and mount training while online, or free pvp items Every week, hell even a pvp item bag is welcome), but no you have to give the burden to storage alone.
And that will lead to, when people are forced to find a way （mule, mailing each other, second account etc） to solve the storage provlem, the decline of subscription.

I will Seriously consider quit the sub （not the game, and i will buy things in crown store to Support ZOS, but I probably won't sub anymore because I don't like the way this is going）, and I know I am not the only one.

So ZOS, if you really want to make more people sub, give us something else except for storage

People complaining about free stuff? Nothing new here

Please, teach me how to sub for free!

WoW Tokens, but diff game

colig · April 2017

It's going to be great for people who love collecting sets. If it keeps subbers happy and paying then I have no issue with it as a non-subber.

Agobi · April 2017

Dear Zos,do not listen to the OP..he is wrong.

More storage is fine,do it.

That is all

Titansteele · April 2017

Lyserus wrote: »

You know that when you are obviously trying hard, it will actually make the negative effect?

Few days ago you guys says “Oh Most of the people don't upgrade their bank so no need for storage in housing!” and now you are like “so to increase the value of subscription we are giving subbers——more storage! You guys sure love it!”

This is not how it works.

You could give subbers all kinds of benefit that make ppl want to sub （like double speed for trait research and mount training while online, or free pvp items Every week, hell even a pvp item bag is welcome), but no you have to give the burden to storage alone.
And that will lead to, when people are forced to find a way （mule, mailing each other, second account etc） to solve the storage provlem, the decline of subscription.

I will Seriously consider quit the sub （not the game, and i will buy things in crown store to Support ZOS, but I probably won't sub anymore because I don't like the way this is going）, and I know I am not the only one.

So ZOS, if you really want to make more people sub, give us something else except for storage

ZOS please pay no attention to OP, I have maxed out my bank, my craft bag was a life saver but when you are saving sets for 4 (soon to be 5) max CP characters for different roles and builds my bank is full constantly.

This change will prevent me from wasting a character slot by using it as a mule, it will be removed and it shall become my shiny new Warden as I aim for my 6th ALT.

Bravo ZOS, Bravo.

Shadow_Viper_vX · April 2017

Please don't listen to the OP ZOS, increased bank space is going to be an awesome addition to subscriber benefits!!

Gandrhulf_Harbard · April 2017

Lyserus wrote: »

I will Seriously consider quit the sub （not the game, and i will buy things in crown store to Support ZOS, but I probably won't sub anymore because I don't like the way this is going）, and I know I am not the only one.

So ZOS, if you really want to make more people sub, give us something else except for storage

You are the ONLY person I have heard say they will quit if ESO+ gets extra storage.

Half the unsubbed people in my guild have said they will get ESO+ because of the storage.

I am close to certain that for every ESO+ member they lose, they'll gain another 6 to 10 who are desperate for extra storage without the need for Bank Mules.

I currently have 3 Bank Mules each with 120-140 bank spaces just holding Intricates, Glyphs and Provisioning Recipes and Furnishing Patterns for my Warden when I create him. Doble my maxed out Bank Space would free up two of those Character Slots.

However, one thing I think you have wrong concerns this:

Lyserus wrote: »

Few days ago you guys says “Oh Most of the people don't upgrade their bank so no need for storage in housing!” and now you are like “so to increase the value of subscription we are giving subbers——more storage! You guys sure love it!”

It is abundantly clear now that plans for extra storage for ESO+ were well under way when homestead was released. The real reason Homesteads had no storage was because if they had it would have undermined the positive impact of giving more storage to ESO+ members. Why give us it for free with Homesteads when they can incentivise us to sub my gating it with ESO+.

All The Best