Anyone know why these locations differ?

Fvh09NL · April 2017

Hey everyone,

In my opinion ZoS did quite a good job on the accuracy of the exact locations of cities on the maps in ESO; however, there are some that have bothered me from the moment I started playing this game (console launch).

I think the following cities are not placed correctly, and should actually have been on the places mentioned between the brackets:
- Mournhold (should have been somewhere in the red rectangle)
- Narsis (should have been somewhere in the blue rectangle)
- Stormhold (should have been somewhere in the red circle)
- Blacklight (should have been somewhere in the blue circle (ok, this city does not exist yet in the game but Skuldafn in Eastmarch is right where this city should be, hence the mention))

Look at the map below to see what I mean:

Look at this map for reference:

I don't understand why these cities are not where they should be, but I might be wrong so if anyone has any explanation I'd like to hear it!

Taleof2Cities · April 2017

Remember that ESO takes place quite a few centuries before events in other Elder Scrolls games. Therefore, I'm willing to chalk up the discrepancy to Tamriel's cartographers having a better (or worse) sense of the lay of the land in map #2 ... just like today's real world maps are much more precise than the year 1492.

Alpheu5 · April 2017

Nowhere was really set in stone before, I don't think, just general-accuracy cartography, the likes of which you see present in old maps of the world. The old maps of Tamriel are reminiscent of the kind of maps you'd expect to see get made when someone doesn't have a satellite view of the terrain and must instead draw the rough locations of things.

If Thorn suddenly found itself west of Mournhold, then I'd call it a discrepancy.

Fvh09NL · April 2017

True, but the thing is: almost all other locations fit perfectly, or are just a tiny bit off. These seem to differ quite a bit. Could be because of what you mentioned, although I don't really think so myself.

Rohamad_Ali · April 2017

They don't have satellite photography in Tamriel .

Acrolas · April 2017

The easiest real-world explanation is that different map projections distort different things. Mercator, Mollweide, and Authagraph all look different but represent the same Earth.

There's really no such thing as one correct map. But with fewer geographic reference points, the second map is probably less accurate than the first one.

Alpheu5 · April 2017

Acrolas wrote: »

The easiest real-world explanation is that different map projections distort different things. Mercator, Mollweide, and Authagraph all look different but represent the same Earth.

There's really no such thing as one correct map. But with fewer geographic reference points, the second map is probably less accurate than the first one.

The main difference though is that the world map of Earth is looking at the entire planet. We don't know how large Tamriel is in the grand scale of things to know if distortion is even something to factor in. A top-down perspective on New Zealand only, for instance, will have virtually no distortion.

If there were, in fact, distortion for the supercontinent of Tamriel, then planet would have to be positively minuscule in scale, and as such we'd have to expect some extreme curvature to be visible in all the game worlds.

Unless we use a flat-planet model where the world rests on the back of a giant Haj Mota and everything beyond the edge is filled with slaughterfish.

Fvh09NL · April 2017

Rohamad_Ali wrote: »

They don't have satellite photography in Tamriel .

Topal the Pilot might see that as an insult to his mapping skills, since he's an Altmer..

IronCrystal · April 2017

I'm not a lore-junky, so correct me if I'm wrong, but wasn't that map you are referencing a fan-made map? Could it be the one incorrect?

Korah_Eaglecry · April 2017

Fvh09NL wrote: »

True, but the thing is: almost all other locations fit perfectly, or are just a tiny bit off. These seem to differ quite a bit. Could be because of what you mentioned, although I don't really think so myself.

Without satellites theres no real way for Cartographers to be accurate as to the locations theyve placed. Some are going to be done in a more stylized manner and not so matter of fact while others will. Some cartographers are going to base their work on the work of others rather than first hand knowledge. Some will get locations mixed up with others or completely forget about locations when copying their maps from others.

As for a real world answer about why locations on a older map doesnt line up with a newer one for a video game? Because map design of the current actual location demanded it be placed there rather than where its supposedly located according to older information. Sometimes its more important to the story, game design and layout for locations to be moved from their original reference point. And to be honest, theres numerous Elder Scrolls Maps out there that contradict each other. ESO at least has the ability to lay in stone the actual location of cities and towns that we've never had a chance to see with our own eyes.

Alpheu5 · April 2017

IronCrystal wrote: »

I'm not a lore-junky, so correct me if I'm wrong, but wasn't that map you are referencing a fan-made map? Could it be the one incorrect?

A lot of them are fan-made, and a lot of them had the locations all over the place. That's why I always figured nothing was set in stone until a game or other official source gave canonical evidence of an exact geographical location, be it a game map or late-stage concept art.

Fvh09NL · April 2017

IronCrystal wrote: »

I'm not a lore-junky, so correct me if I'm wrong, but wasn't that map you are referencing a fan-made map? Could it be the one incorrect?

Could well be, that's why I am asking!

Fvh09NL · April 2017

Korah_Eaglecry wrote: »

Fvh09NL wrote: »

True, but the thing is: almost all other locations fit perfectly, or are just a tiny bit off. These seem to differ quite a bit. Could be because of what you mentioned, although I don't really think so myself.

Without satellites theres no real way for Cartographers to be accurate as to the locations theyve placed. Some are going to be done in a more stylized manner and not so matter of fact while others will. Some cartographers are going to base their work on the work of others rather than first hand knowledge. Some will get locations mixed up with others or completely forget about locations when copying their maps from others.

As for a real world answer about why locations on a older map doesnt line up with a newer one for a video game? Because map design of the current actual location demanded it be placed there rather than where its supposedly located according to older information. Sometimes its more important to the story, game design and layout for locations to be moved from their original reference point. And to be honest, theres numerous Elder Scrolls Maps out there that contradict each other. ESO at least has the ability to lay in stone the actual location of cities and towns that we've never had a chance to see with our own eyes.

Yeah that's what I thought as well, probably better for the game design.

Fvh09NL · April 2017

Alpheu5 wrote: »

IronCrystal wrote: »

I'm not a lore-junky, so correct me if I'm wrong, but wasn't that map you are referencing a fan-made map? Could it be the one incorrect?

A lot of them are fan-made, and a lot of them had the locations all over the place. That's why I always figured nothing was set in stone until a game or other official source gave canonical evidence of an exact geographical location, be it a game map or late-stage concept art.

Yeah I know, I just started to wonder since almost all locations seemed to (more or less) match this map, just not the eastern part

datgladiatah · April 2017

That's a basis of the lore in TES. Cartographers have biases and some of them are better than others. Morrowind might have fed false information. He might have been lost. And historically, outside of this period of Interregnum, almost no one freely walks into Black Marsh. People constantly draw out where they think cities are, realizing no one will fact check them because going into Black Marsh is certain death.

Publius_Scipio · April 2017

"As society progressed over the time in Tamriel the citizens outgrew the now ancient cities and strongholds. New locations were chosen for the construction of new more modern cities. Any material reusable such as stone was taken from the original cities and was used in construction of the new modern and larger streets, and new plumbing and sewage systems to handle the more dense and larger populations. And of course Verizon laid its fiber optic cables down so that citizens may have FiOS. Where the old majestic cities once stood tall and proud, nature was allowed to reclaim the land."

- Publius Scipio 2E 831

Prof_Bawbag · April 2017

What surprises me more is some places are as they were . Look at almost any major dwelling during the same time frame and all have changed considerably or no longer exist in their original form. Edinburgh for example is a city on a city. Rather than demolish the old city, they filled it in and built a new city on top of the old one.