SanTii.92 wrote: »

Reading Closed beta announcement article i think we can all safly assume that Zos isn't considering to open Morrowind's beta at all. And while we can only guess the reasons why they are doing it this way, we can reasonably expect that if they don't, at the very least disclose the nda restrictions some time prior to the expansion launch, we will see a massive competitive advantage for those who were invited to the closed beta. In terms of strategies devloped, builds theorycrafted and availabilities, grind spots and how to farm them, general grasp of mechanics and the overall raw experience of it; all that will highly contribute to who will be the first Halls of Fabrication clear, who will dominate the battlegrounds from the get go, who will get richer the most, and who won't.

As someone who's main reason to play is to find enjoyment on fair competitiveness, I honestly found this downright disrespectful. Hope this thread can spark some discussion about this issue, that i feel is getting suspeciously unsopken of.

Really? I mean seriously|? I think you need to reflect on why you play the game because it is obviously having an unwanted physiological effect if this is how you feel.

Every online game on the planet has closed beta at some point.

Standard practice.

Get over it.

lnsane wrote: »

You are assuming that there will be no open beta. You are also assuming that the invited players are just as much (if not more) interested in theorycrafting, mechanics and builds as they are in testing the software and finding defects. Lastly you're assuming that those testers will use that knowledge to gain an unfair advantage after Morrowind's release over other players whom didn't get invited to the beta. I shouldn't be the one to tell you that assumptions are the mother of all [beep]-ups.

The insane amount of misconceptions regarding the testing process in software development - in this and other threads - is mind-boggling, and as a professional software tester this irks me to no end. And I really don't feel like talking anyone through it, but take it from me that a closed beta is neither the first nor the last opportunity/development phase in which testing will take place.

If the closed beta is causing some serious trust-issues on your end and you feel 'disrespected' because of it, it might be time for you to take a step away from the game and go do something else for a while.

Hey, you are right, i've made quite a lot of assumptions, i actually initially consider to title the thread something along the lines of "zos could you confirm that we will / won't have an open beta" but then i read the article again and there this phrase: However, this time we're doing things a bit differently, and we will be holding a closed beta for ESO: Morrowind. While everyone will be able to help test the base game content on the PTS, any content included in ESO: Morrowind will be invite-only. which lead me to think that the decision is already made. Also the thread was meant to provoque and hopefuly get some dev attention. Anyways, i think i should appolize regardless.

Then, about your other point i can only say that intentionally or not players who have thoroughly tested the patch will have and advantage over who didn't no matter what.

After reading some posts i got to say that i agree that a closed beta have some advantages over an open one, but i don't believe that it's estrictly necessary to keep full closure till the launch. At this point, i feel like Zos is chosing to try to keep the hype up at the expense of a more transparent development that will preserve a more competitive game.

Wow at OP...

People participating in closed beta are sacrificing their time for experience in content that will be changed. They could be doing VMA on live, but they are doing whatever on CBeta server and all they will have will be experience...

All the new armor tests will be done prior to Morrowind live release by great people like @Alcast

Dungeons and trials - I bet a pound to a penny that beta testers will not do them 24/7...

Get real kiddo.

For the trial, I atleast hope they have a database where they can see how much time each player have spent in other trials. Personally, i raid 5 times a week, subscribed since release of game, bought tons of crowns and playtime with over 200 days on my main only. I will admit, not getting access to the new trial on pts were others have, would make me concider quitting the game.

If people goes to PTS to be "first" in trails and dungeons at the real game then the PTS is not working as intended.

I hope that ZoS gets what they want from a closed test panel in a more controlled testing, clearly a open test server dont serve its purpose.

cry all you want

SanTii.92 wrote: »

Reading Closed beta announcement article i think we can all safly assume that Zos isn't considering to open Morrowind's beta at all. And while we can only guess the reasons why they are doing it this way, we can reasonably expect that if they don't, at the very least disclose the nda restrictions some time prior to the expansion launch, we will see a massive competitive advantage for those who were invited to the closed beta. In terms of strategies devloped, builds theorycrafted and availabilities, grind spots and how to farm them, general grasp of mechanics and the overall raw experience of it; all that will highly contribute to who will be the first Halls of Fabrication clear, who will dominate the battlegrounds from the get go, who will get richer the most, and who won't.

As someone who's main reason to play is to find enjoyment on fair competitiveness, I honestly found this downright disrespectful. Hope this thread can spark some discussion about this issue, that i feel is getting suspeciously unsopken of.

I agree with some of your concerns about the "edge" being in beta gives some players, in terms of theorycrafting, strategies and perhaps most importantly - the economy.

However, there are I believe only two possible solutions to this issue - and I do not believe that either of them are a) practicable, b) desirable or c) significantly more productive than the current method.

The first is to allow everyone into the Beta - the issue with that is that far too many people would be playing just to get that edge, and far too few would be giving the kind of feedback that Zenimax have decided they need for a release like Morrowind. Add in that many players - myself included - would just not partake of that opportunity, I love the "wonder of the new" when an expac goes live, I know I'll have far too many other players to compete with for resources, mobs etc but that doesn't bother me. I know I'll be behind the curve on the economic impact of the new release and that doesn't bother too much either - because all of that is eclipsed bu the joy and wonder of travelling through, exploring and experiencing a well crafted Expac to game I am increasingly enjoying. I'd much rather some player have that "edge" from being in Beta and I get a better optimised, better balances and less buggy Expac.

The second would be to ban Beta participants and their accounts from accessing the game, once live, for 1 week. That is perhaps more logical in how it would actually negate some of that advantage from the people who participated in the Beta, but from a PR and Customer Relations point of view it would be an utter disaster.

All The Best

I'm not sure if you are playing the same game. As far as I know there is no competition in ESO. This is a casual game to the core and this closed beta system further reinforces the mindset.

Leaderboards reset every patch so scores are meaningless. PVP is dead, my group of 6 can destroy zergs of 40 in moments.

Battlegrounds will again be dominated by these players who know how to PVP and there ends your competition.

As far as PVE is concerned this game has nothing to offer for anyone with a competitive mindset.

rustic_potato wrote: »

Leaderboards reset every patch so scores are meaningless.

There are a lot of competitive games with seasons system. Leaderboard reset with major patch is a start of new season.

If I were ZOS, I would invite everyone that has ever completed vMoL with a score above X. That should solve the problem by getting all remotely competitive groups into beta.

Mitoice wrote: »

Not enough people to test you say?? hahahahahahaha

Been here since Beta and

1. Very few people really test things in PTS.. majority just log in to PTS to see the new stuff
2. NEVER EVER, HAVE i seen a bug reported on PTS and fixed on release date....NEVER!!
Take the group finder for example, since the housing PTS it has been reported of its bugs and still to this day, kicks me out of the dungeon when I enter, it hasnt been fixed.

So I dont see your point on having a closed or open beta.

For number 2, I don't think that is the purpose of PTS. Not a primary purpose, at least. It takes them too long to fix most bugs. Seems like they generally have a 2-3 week turnaround. I used to report a lot of bugs on PTS, until that finally sank in.

Now I do more of the play testing, less of the bug hunting, and run through stuff to see how it compares with Live and whether there are any things that pop up that I think they should know about. On PTS, I assume they have metrics running, so when I kill monsters, do quests, etc, data is being collected in aggregate. I do stuff on Live, too.

My gut tells me that they mainly need are warm butts in seats when they need to be. Beyond that, people who will theory craft into various sets and combinations so that exploits areas of unusually high character power can be identified and fixed. They need "average" people who are not min/max types and not theory crafters to do the battlegrounds and trials to make sure they are not biased against the more "average" players. (their definition of "average")

Ideally, some brand new players would be invaluable when it comes to Warden, as these players do not have pre-conceptions about what the class should be doing and where it fits into the bigger picture.

Non issue. It'll be available to all on the PTS before it launches.

Gandrhulf_Harbard wrote: »

timidobserver wrote: »

If I were ZOS, I would invite everyone that has ever completed vMoL with a score above X. That should solve the problem by getting all remotely competitive groups into beta.

They don't necessarily want "competitive players" in the beta.

They want competent beta testers.

The two are not the same.

I've beta tested in games, and beta-tested and destruction-tested and written instruction manuals for major civic databases.

Some of the skills required to do that carry over reasonably well into competitive play styles; but some don't.

All The Best

Your post is kind of irrelevant to mine. My post basically assumes that the competitive advantage of having a month and a half of early access matters to them. It's a suggestion of how to fix the issue assuming that they agree that it is issue.

Publius_Scipio wrote: »

I may be wrong but I believe I read somewhere (or maybe heard on ESO Live?) that Morrowind new content will be closed beta but all the base game patch changes are open PTS. So you will be able to test your builds out still based on balance changes. Again, if this is true.

Yessir this is very much true.