Giles.floydub17_ESO wrote: »

dday3six wrote: »

Bow can't do everything, and still be considered balanced. There are viable, though not absolutely optimal Bow/Bow builds. However Bow is hands down the best support weapon. I view it in a similar vein to Restoration Staff. It's meant to supplemental.

Near 40k dps unbuffes isnt good? That probably need 50k, maybe a bit more, in a trial boss fight. For a range build that's not shabby and some fights require some dps to be outside of melee range.

Avran_Sylt wrote: »

@STEVIL

I should mention that this power draw idea works off of the same range as the skill it replaces, though that does give me the idea:
Perhaps it gains increased range, but deals more damage the closer you are to a target to a maximum increase when you are 15m or closer to your target.

as to the question of why should bow/bow be as good as either Dw/bow or 2H/bow I want to ask you this:

why is Dw/2H not as good as Dw/Bow or 2H/Bow when standing right next to an enemy?

I think that Each skill line should have some kind of attack that would allow it to be a good backbarable skill for dps, dependent on distance of course.

I think that each weapon class should have some kind of spammable that makes it okay for DPS, but also unique. Dual wield has one that is great for proc sets, 2H has one that is great for comboing other skills (empower, though that 1s cast time really needs to be reduced), Destro has one that deals good damage and is a variable multitarget spammable. But bow has one (Snipe/Poison Arrow) that either has an increased channel for little damage bonus, or low initial damage that must be waited on to deal much damage. Which Is why I suggest adding in the Power Draw Skill. (though I need to update the main post to reflect current changes)

And each weapon class should have a good DoT that can be back barred. If you're familiar with my 2H post you'll see that I suggested making a new ability that takes up that spot (I kind of want to change it so it also deals more damage to high health targets). DW kind of has it with Twin Slashes, but I think that Twin Slashes needs a buff.

Each one should be able to Self/Self itself while also sliding in various skills from your classes. you being able to mix and match based on your preferred playstyle (though now that I think of it there really should be a longbow and shortbow variant).

STEVIL wrote: »

Avran_Sylt wrote: »

@STEVIL

I should mention that this power draw idea works off of the same range as the skill it replaces, though that does give me the idea:
Perhaps it gains increased range, but deals more damage the closer you are to a target to a maximum increase when you are 15m or closer to your target.

as to the question of why should bow/bow be as good as either Dw/bow or 2H/bow I want to ask you this:

why is Dw/2H not as good as Dw/Bow or 2H/Bow when standing right next to an enemy?

I think that Each skill line should have some kind of attack that would allow it to be a good backbarable skill for dps, dependent on distance of course.

I think that each weapon class should have some kind of spammable that makes it okay for DPS, but also unique. Dual wield has one that is great for proc sets, 2H has one that is great for comboing other skills (empower, though that 1s cast time really needs to be reduced), Destro has one that deals good damage and is a variable multitarget spammable. But bow has one (Snipe/Poison Arrow) that either has an increased channel for little damage bonus, or low initial damage that must be waited on to deal much damage. Which Is why I suggest adding in the Power Draw Skill. (though I need to update the main post to reflect current changes)

And each weapon class should have a good DoT that can be back barred. If you're familiar with my 2H post you'll see that I suggested making a new ability that takes up that spot (I kind of want to change it so it also deals more damage to high health targets). DW kind of has it with Twin Slashes, but I think that Twin Slashes needs a buff.

Each one should be able to Self/Self itself while also sliding in various skills from your classes. you being able to mix and match based on your preferred playstyle (though now that I think of it there really should be a longbow and shortbow variant).

on the off chance that by "able to"you dont mean "able to" but mean "be competitive with" when you are talking about wpn/wpn same type builds, let me point out the amazingly obvious.

If all the wpn/wpn builds were competitive with the wpn=a/wpn-b builds then why in the world would anyone do more than the one weapon? Why spend double the skills if there is no net gain?

Right now, all the bow/bow. 2h/2h, dw, dw underperfrom compared to dw/bow, 2h/bow and thats just fine becuase of, well, most people know, the latter spent 20ish skill points more.

The more you mover forward in your quest for sameness the more you make your spending choices less meaningful.

As for why DW/2h isn't as good, its because it is mixing two weapon types with different objectives. You combine a burst-utils with a more straight-up sustain DPS and they do not complement each other. Might as well combine them with sword and board or destro staff or peanut butter and motor oil.

2H for burst and solo, DW for systain esp in group with bow as the good swing adder for either (probviding DPS for both thru dots and some burst as well) gives each a good companion.

Each has a place at the end-game table and none is best everywhere and spending 20ish skill points more for a well chosen companion skill line pays off over not and spending them elsewhere.

Smells an awful lot about balance and not about sameness. They also encourge different set choices.

so, win win.

Kodrac wrote: »

Snipe should be the bow's execute and poison arrow should be the spammable. They have these 2 totally backwards.

Vercingetorix wrote: »

Honestly, the solution is to diversify the weapon skill lines. For example, there could be both a Longbow and a Shortbow skill line. One can focus on short-range damage and buffs, while the other can focus on long-range damage and DoTs. This change would allow Rangers to have a bar to handle melee-range pressure and a bar to focus on long-range DPS boss fights. Each skill line would have its place in PvP. Shortbows would be ideal in IC and Sewers, giving players better options for CQ fights. Longbows would be better suited for open-world PvP, allowing for the current option of engaging enemies at range.

Staves suffer from this issue as well: Adding an Alteration Staff and Illusion Staff skill line would add FAR more variety to combat. Alteration could focus on buffs and utility spells, while Illusion Staff would focus on CC-effects and debuffs.