Doomed by TRIO game

SilverWF · April 2017

When we'll get rid of classic trio system? This is last century, or even two! This makes this game from wonderful to not enjoyable crap if you are trying to do dungeons!

Every encounter forces you to have 1 tank, 1 healer and 2 DPSers. This is BS (something that bulls produces, you know). Where is a FREEDOM?
Also, there is always a tons of damaggers, much less number of healers and all I can say about tanks is they are rarer than an animals from the Red book.
What DLC I need to buy to get rid of that ***?
If you have DPSers only dungeons is not for you. You can be queued for something like a half of hour(!!!) only to see how your groupmates will leave after 1st wipe! Sure if you are healer or a tank this is not a problem - you'll find a group in seconds. But for DPSer this is just eternal queues.

You forces every group to have a tank and healer. But! You are removed all direct strong heals and aggro from the classic healer and tank archetype!
Tank must be tough as hell, also high block rate and (most important thing) ability to aggro the whole room on himself at demand! Do we see it here? Not.
Healer must have group heals for a moderate amount and one singletarget strong heal (literally at the full HP bar). Do we see it here? Not.

If you dislike TRIO then remove it! make all dungeons doable with all 4 DPSers! And not doable because of luck, but everytime! Remove oneshots from bosses completely! make bosses vulnerable after some environment use or another conditions - just get rid of tanks!
This is NOT fun to be in the queue for 30 min and still not able to do ONE random dungeon for daily - in the EU prime-time! Damn, not even specific, but one RANDOM vet dungeon! OMG, three years gone and there is still nothing changed!

Another part is Stam DPSers still sucks. I have Stam NB and Magic Sorc. Yes, NB can provide strong but short(!) burst to ONE target. But this is far even from being "not enough" in the dungeons. My Sorc able to do continuous and strong AOE pressure also as crazy single-target. I didn't even say that some players are leave only when they understood that my NB is stamina-based, not magicka and I can understand them!
How the hell I'll able to level Undaunted guild skill-line at my NB? Respec it to the Magica, level this guild and then respec back? Are you serious? There is 2017, not 1997, game design has changed since 1st MMOs like Ultima Online! God, three years and stamina still suck ><
Do you understand why there is so many mages? Because this is like be universal soldier: you are good in the PVP, you are crazy good in the PVE. Why play something else?

I really love this game at my NB because of Dark Bhood DLC, this is really enjoyable content. But. When I want to do any dungeon - I have a strong wish to just deinstall this game!

TLDR All dungeons and bosses mechanic must be reworked to be absolutely doable without any specific roles or specs, like "tanks" or "mages".

Enslaved · April 2017

So, you want dungeons to be doable by 4 healers?

Bouldercleave · April 2017

Nice rant - but

The trinity will ALWAYS be the trinity. The entire Genre of co-op gaming was founded on that principle.

SilverWF · April 2017

Enslaved wrote: »

So, you want dungeons to be doable by 4 healers?

Since most of passives affects healing and mage damage both - why not? Yes it would be much longer than with 4 DPSer, but doable.

Bouldercleave wrote: »

The trinity will ALWAYS be the trinity. The entire Genre of co-op gaming was founded on that principle.

In the last century - that is what I said about.
I don't want to play tank (mostly because there is NO tanks from that "ALWAYS trinity") and didn't want to sit in the queue for hours on my DPSer.

WalksonGraves · April 2017

If anything it's not trinity based at all, in dungeons I can deal with no healer, 3 good dps can run without a tank, endgame tank is apparently a buff maid.

SilverWF · April 2017

WalksonGraves wrote: »

If anything it's not trinity based at all

Matchmaker is not agreed with this.

DeadlyRecluse · April 2017

SilverWF wrote: »

TLDR All dungeons and bosses mechanic must be reworked to be absolutely doable without any specific roles or specs, like "tanks" or "mages".

Besides a few exceptions, they pretty much are.

At low levels (both character and experience) you'll be well served by the trinity. Once you know what you are doing, most 4 man dungeons can run with any combination of roles.

SilverWF wrote: »

I don't want to play tank (mostly because there is NO tanks from that "ALWAYS trinity") and didn't want to sit in the queue for hours on my DPSer.

So make friends/join a guild and run with 3/4 dps?

Bouldercleave · April 2017

So your REAL complaint is that you want to DPS (like the majority of players), but because you don't want to tank or heal the whole system that the Genre was founded on is broken?

You queue longer because there are substantially more DPSers than tanks and healers.

Reorx_Holybeard · April 2017

Have you tried vetDungeons with a good non-trinity group? It's more than possible if your group members are above your average PUG group.

x4 DPS -- A combination of everyone keeping their own health up plus one designated as emergency healer if desired. If you have good DPS each doing 20-30k this makes most bosses die before you have to worry about most mechanics. Whoever has aggro just has to be careful relative the boss attacks and know which attacks they have to block/avoid.
x4 Tank -- Definitely the slower of the 3 combinations and you need at least one "sap" type tank to cover some heals. Bonus for no lacks of taunting.
x4 Healer -- Probably the easiest of the 3 combinations as you won't lack for healing and a healer build is generally not far from a DPS build anyways. Just have to be aware of mechanics and who has aggro.

Now...is your average PUG group going to have any success running x4 of anything? Probably not but most of that is related to the relatively inexperienced players you find in your typical PUG and not the capabilities of the classes themselves. Find some good players, players that could potentially solo the dungeon by themselves, and you can use x4 of anything to finish most, if not all, vet Dungeons.

Tryxus · April 2017

In this game I feel that the TRIO serves as a baseline on which 1. Pledges and Group Dungeons are created and 2. New players can form groups for them

However, with experience and knowledge of the mechanics it's perfectly possible to form 4 DPS groups or 3 DPS/1 Tank etc

It's not to be taken strictly in this game, tho it might make things easier

HatchetHaro · April 2017

Sounds like an L2P issue

Muramasa89 · April 2017

SilverWF wrote: »

This is last century

So am I, and computer games, and a lot, really.

SilverWF · April 2017

Bouldercleave wrote: »

So your REAL complaint is that you want to DPS (like the majority of players), but because you don't want to tank or heal the whole system that the Genre was founded on is broken?

You queue longer because there are substantially more DPSers than tanks and healers.

Then remove roles from matchmaker completely!
I like to be a tank in the another games where tanks HAS special aggro skills, not just "a man with tons of HP and shield"
I like to play a healer in the games where healer CAN heal a lot, not just "a man with resto staff"
Also, wanna be my tank everytime I am queueing? Not? Predictable.

SilverWF · April 2017

HatchetHaro wrote: »

Sounds like an L2P issue

L2d issue - learn to design

Muramasa89 wrote: »

SilverWF wrote: »

This is last century

So am I, and computer games, and a lot, really.

And a lot without "trio", really.

booksmcread · April 2017

Then level a tank.

SilverWF · April 2017

booksmcread wrote: »

Then level a tank.

Then try to read 1st

Bouldercleave · April 2017

SilverWF wrote: »

booksmcread wrote: »

Then level a tank.

Then try to read 1st

Yes, learn to read 1st. He wants to change the entire game to revolve around the way that HE would prefer to play. It doesn't matter what is the most efficient, safest, or traditional grouping. He is inconvenienced so we must all change our ways to cater to his desires.

,

MakoFore · April 2017

seeing a lot of complaints but not many suggestions

SilverWF · April 2017

Bouldercleave wrote: »

SilverWF wrote: »

booksmcread wrote: »

Then level a tank.

Then try to read 1st

Yes, learn to read 1st. He wants to change the entire game to revolve around the way that HE would prefer to play. It doesn't matter what is the most efficient, safest, or traditional grouping. He is inconvenienced so we must all change our ways to cater to his desires.

,

Entire game? Please, made a screenshot with THAT my words [snip]

[Edit for Flaming]

Solariken · April 2017

Every single ESO veteran dungeon is absolutely doable with 4 DPS. Hell, nearly all of them can be soloed if you are at least skilled enough to flawless vMA and don't mind doing them at a snail's pace. Group Finder PUGs are generally not capable but find some friends/guild to run with and you will want for nothing.

SilverWF · April 2017

MakoFore wrote: »

seeing a lot of complaints but not many suggestions

There is no complaints, but explanations only.
This don't need to have too many suggestions too - only one: rework dungeons and bosses mechanic by removing oneshots completely.

SilverWF · April 2017

Solariken wrote: »

Every single ESO veteran dungeon is absolutely doable with 4 DPS. Hell, nearly all of them can be soloed if you are at least skilled enough to flawless vMA and don't mind doing them at a snail's pace. Group Finder PUGs are generally not capable but find some friends/guild to run with and you will want for nothing.

Sure, your comp is not strong enough to make a video of soloing veteran dungeon, right?

Sunver · April 2017

Put a joystick instead of driving wheel into a car and try to drive. Perfectly doable but I think would need some time to get used to it. What I mean if something is working and most people are used to it don't blame creators for embracing the idea. PS: Non-trinity runs are perfectly doable under vet trial level.

Bouldercleave · April 2017

SilverWF wrote: »

Bouldercleave wrote: »

SilverWF wrote: »

booksmcread wrote: »

Then level a tank.

Then try to read 1st

Yes, learn to read 1st. He wants to change the entire game to revolve around the way that HE would prefer to play. It doesn't matter what is the most efficient, safest, or traditional grouping. He is inconvenienced so we must all change our ways to cater to his desires.

,

Entire game? Please, made a screenshot with THAT my words [snip]

Ok

"Then remove roles from matchmaker completely!
I like to be a tank in the another games where tanks HAS special aggro skills, not just "a man with tons of HP and shield"
I like to play a healer in the games where healer CAN heal a lot, not just "a man with resto staff"
Also, wanna be my tank everytime I am queueing? Not? Predictable."

Those were your words. I'm not a liar at all.

Removing roles from dungeon finder and changing the way tanks tank and healers heal in the game wouldn't be changing the entire game?

Solariken · April 2017

SilverWF wrote: »

Solariken wrote: »

Every single ESO veteran dungeon is absolutely doable with 4 DPS. Hell, nearly all of them can be soloed if you are at least skilled enough to flawless vMA and don't mind doing them at a snail's pace. Group Finder PUGs are generally not capable but find some friends/guild to run with and you will want for nothing.

Sure, your comp is not strong enough to make a video of soloing veteran dungeon, right?

I run with guildies/friends without a tank/healer all the time and we absolutely obliterate vet dungeons. What many people don't fully realize is that DPS is king in ESO PvE - you avoid craptons of damage and skip lots of mechanics when you burn things down as fast as possible. I personally have no desire to spend the time soloing vet dungeons because that content is simply a means to different ends (aka PvP) and I like to minimize time spent in strict PvE. However if do you want to see people solo vet dungeons there are plenty of great soloers here on the forums like @Vaoh.

KochDerDamonen · April 2017

You can do 95% of content with less than four people or combinations of self-supporting and supportive dps players, point invalid.

Try not using the lfg tool

SilverWF · April 2017

Bouldercleave wrote: »

SilverWF wrote: »

Bouldercleave wrote: »

SilverWF wrote: »

booksmcread wrote: »

Then level a tank.

Then try to read 1st

Yes, learn to read 1st. He wants to change the entire game to revolve around the way that HE would prefer to play. It doesn't matter what is the most efficient, safest, or traditional grouping. He is inconvenienced so we must all change our ways to cater to his desires.

,

Entire game? Please, made a screenshot with THAT my words or you are just a liar.

Ok

"Then remove roles from matchmaker completely!
I like to be a tank in the another games where tanks HAS special aggro skills, not just "a man with tons of HP and shield"
I like to play a healer in the games where healer CAN heal a lot, not just "a man with resto staff"
Also, wanna be my tank everytime I am queueing? Not? Predictable."

Those were your words. I'm not a liar, just smarter than your argument.

Removing roles from dungeon finder and changing the way tanks tank and healers heal in the game wouldn't be changing the entire game?

Removing roles from matchmaker is NOT changing the ENTIRE game. And fair enough about this [snip]

[Edit for flaming]

Bouldercleave · April 2017

SilverWF wrote: »

Bouldercleave wrote: »

SilverWF wrote: »

Bouldercleave wrote: »

SilverWF wrote: »

booksmcread wrote: »

Then level a tank.

Then try to read 1st

Yes, learn to read 1st. He wants to change the entire game to revolve around the way that HE would prefer to play. It doesn't matter what is the most efficient, safest, or traditional grouping. He is inconvenienced so we must all change our ways to cater to his desires.

,

Entire game? Please, made a screenshot with THAT my words or you are just a liar.

Ok

"Then remove roles from matchmaker completely!
I like to be a tank in the another games where tanks HAS special aggro skills, not just "a man with tons of HP and shield"
I like to play a healer in the games where healer CAN heal a lot, not just "a man with resto staff"
Also, wanna be my tank everytime I am queueing? Not? Predictable."

Those were your words. I'm not a liar, just smarter than your argument.

Removing roles from dungeon finder and changing the way tanks tank and healers heal in the game wouldn't be changing the entire game?

Removing roles from matchmaker is NOT changing the ENTIRE game. And fair enough about this [snip]

My apologies - I thought for a moment that I was dealing with someone who was rational. My bad.

SilverWF · April 2017

KochDerDamonen wrote: »

Try not using the lfg tool

Pretty good description of some part of the game: try to not use it.
Too bad there is always "LF tank/healer" in the chat, not "LF anyone". In the guild chat too.

I'm talking about whole community. Most of players using LFG. Using it for most of then is not any enjoyable experience. ZO MUST to do anything with it.
How? Changing bosses mechanic or removing roles from matchmaker - their choice.

mvffins · April 2017

SilverWF wrote: »

If you have DPSers only dungeons is not for you. You can be queued for something like a half of hour(!!!) only to see how your groupmates will leave after 1st wipe! Sure if you are healer or a tank this is not a problem - you'll find a group in seconds. But for DPSer this is just eternal queues.

The wait has nothing to do with the holy trinity of RPGs, it's because DPS is what most people want to do as tanking and healing is pretty boring since they take longer leveling up, have a pretty textbook routine in dungeons, and aren't the ones getting the kills in PvP.

I would suggest just soloing the dungeons yourself, I queued for pledges yesterday, decided might as well start doing the dungeon while I wait, and ended up finishing them both before getting in a party. It's a crappy wait and long but ESO allows us to play how we want as long as we can put up with the cost.

Oompuh · April 2017

Join a guild, restrictions go out the window when you dont use group finder