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ZOS stop using inventory as a weapon
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ChildOfLight✭✭✭Transairion wrote: »Like I said in another thread somewhere around here: Freeloaders have had it pretty good for a long time. Now that's changing and the tears are starting to flow.
B2P games don't have freeloaders, you can't freeload after paying for something.
All I'll say is ESO's method of not being an ass to non-subs is, or was an incredibly attractive part of the game that drew in a lot of people from other MMO's, myself included.
If they're planning on going the F2P game route, then just go F2P: don't make us pay money to be treated like 2nd class citizens. Elitist subs already do that enough because spending $1000 in the Crown Store is only supporting the game if a Subscriber does it. LOL.
This.
PC EU
Ross Campano - Imperial Dragonknight - Tanks and steals stuff from barrels1 -
WalksonGraves✭✭✭✭✭
✭WalksonGraves wrote: »Tommy_The_Gun wrote: »It is a problem because additional inventory (aside from what you can unlock with in game bank / inventory upgrade) is only available via subscription. There are people out there who don't have 24 h/ day to play ESO. If you have let's say only 8h play time per week - then like 90% of subscription "time" is wasted.
I am pretty sure that it is only a mater of time for ZOS to make bank / inventory upgrade available for crowns as a one time payment. So if you reach for example maks 240 bank slots - you still be able to buy additional slots for real money.
I'm sorry but $15/mo is nothing to most people, we tend to spend more than that on fast food... so even if you only spend 8/h per week, it is still more entertainment time than you've spent eating that single fast food meal.
If you bought the game at launch with a sub you've almost paid a grand by now.
And that's a bad thing to help the company continue being successful and providing you with days, weeks, months of entertainment? How much have people spent in three years for fast food, movies, partying?!? Those still pale in comparison to how much most people get from ESO.
You realize that the amount of money you give them goes into investor pockets and not the game itself?
Let me put it in perspective.
Videogame Industry is bigger than music and movies combined. Fallout 4 was one of the best selling games ever. You might as well throw your money at a mountain of gold.1 -
Elsonso✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Well, the "only real benefit" from the subscription is not necessarily the storage. Maybe for the OP, but I am pretty sure that is not universal.
The 10% boost is overlooked by a lot of people, mainly because they don't need it, but not all of my characters are max level, max crafting, max CP. Inspiration and XP boosts are welcome. It is a mainstream benefit that hits new players.
I don't personally like housing, but for those who do, the benefit there is significant, even if fringe.
The Crowns are not a waste. People do buy the stuff in the Crown Store, and many of them use the subscription Crowns. Again, just because the OP does not like the trash cosmetics does not mean that everyone agrees.
Anyone who buys costumes also gets the costume dye benefit. I have costumes. Very few of them are showing the original colors. Recoloring is usually the first thing I do after putting the costume on.
The crafting bag is nice for storage, and it certainly reduces the pain of having to store crafting materials, but the real bonus to the crafting bag is not the storage space, but the fact that Writs pull from it. This means no trip to the bank to grab 3 nirnroot (or whatever) before dropping off the writ. The lack of storage space on my non-subscription account is much less annoying to me than having to run back to the bank to get that stuff.
This double bank space perk will definitely hit the new players in a nice way. I think inventory is manageable without it, but new players don't know what they need to keep, and what they should sell or throw away.WalksonGraves wrote: »So ZOS tactics for retaining subs: be stingy with space, annoy your playerbase with micromanaging, constantly give them garbage event disposable items to fill their inventory, maps to find garbage, etc.
I think that storage space is where it is today because of game design reasons, not cash shop reasons. In other words, if this was a full subscription game, I think we would have the same limitations on storage that we have today. Bank would top out the same. Character inventory would top out same. Or near enough. RPGs that let you carry stuff have a design point in them to limit how much is carried. B2P did not change that.
If anything, I think that B2P has made storage more accessible than it would have been under subscription, first with the Crown space shortcut and the account wide horse storage so that they could sell cosmetic horses, and again with the ESO Plus crafting bag and double bank. There is no reason to expect that any of these things would have happened under a full subscription. We might have gotten something like 10 extra slots with an update or two.
In this RPG, like many others, players are expected to learn to manage their inventory. B2P has relaxed that, but it still exists.
Also, lest we forget, ZOS has done of ton of stuff to make existing storage go further. No subscription or Crowns required. Lots of stuff stacks to 200 now, instead of 100. More stuff stacks than used to stack. Mementos pulled a number of things out of inventory. All of this comes
XBox EU/NA:@ElsonsoJannus
PC NA/EU: @Elsonso
PSN NA/EU: @ElsonsoJannus
Total in-game hours: 11321
X/Twitter: ElsonsoJannus0 -
WalksonGraves✭✭✭✭✭
✭Giles.floydub17_ESO wrote: »WalksonGraves wrote: »Tommy_The_Gun wrote: »It is a problem because additional inventory (aside from what you can unlock with in game bank / inventory upgrade) is only available via subscription. There are people out there who don't have 24 h/ day to play ESO. If you have let's say only 8h play time per week - then like 90% of subscription "time" is wasted.
I am pretty sure that it is only a mater of time for ZOS to make bank / inventory upgrade available for crowns as a one time payment. So if you reach for example maks 240 bank slots - you still be able to buy additional slots for real money.
I'm sorry but $15/mo is nothing to most people, we tend to spend more than that on fast food... so even if you only spend 8/h per week, it is still more entertainment time than you've spent eating that single fast food meal.
If you bought the game at launch with a sub you've almost paid a grand by now.
And you seem to think 100$ game + dlc + crown purchases is 6$.
I see the Gold Edition, which is the base game plus the first 4 DLCs for less than $23 USD. Not $100. Further, DLCs and the expansion is not relevant to your OP.
Besides the point that your OP is very inaccurate since DLCs can still be purchased with crowns and that is not changing. The expansion is all that cannot be purchased with crowns.
Thank you and have a good day.[/quote]
Oh man so you bought the game yesterday used at a yard sale and that's what you base it's value on? Hilarious.1 -
ThePaleItalian✭✭✭✭✭
✭They should have never left sub only model. But of course, play base complained and here we are. Complaining about the ways they make money...Conan, what is good in life?
Crush your enemies. See them driven before you. Hear the lamentations of their women.
PS4 Screen Name: The_Pale_Italian
ZweiHandler - Orc DK Tank
Solstice StormHaven - Magika Sorc
Oba Nobanaga - Stam NB1 -
ADarklore✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭WalksonGraves wrote: »WalksonGraves wrote: »Tommy_The_Gun wrote: »It is a problem because additional inventory (aside from what you can unlock with in game bank / inventory upgrade) is only available via subscription. There are people out there who don't have 24 h/ day to play ESO. If you have let's say only 8h play time per week - then like 90% of subscription "time" is wasted.
I am pretty sure that it is only a mater of time for ZOS to make bank / inventory upgrade available for crowns as a one time payment. So if you reach for example maks 240 bank slots - you still be able to buy additional slots for real money.
I'm sorry but $15/mo is nothing to most people, we tend to spend more than that on fast food... so even if you only spend 8/h per week, it is still more entertainment time than you've spent eating that single fast food meal.
If you bought the game at launch with a sub you've almost paid a grand by now.
And that's a bad thing to help the company continue being successful and providing you with days, weeks, months of entertainment? How much have people spent in three years for fast food, movies, partying?!? Those still pale in comparison to how much most people get from ESO.
You realize that the amount of money you give them goes into investor pockets and not the game itself?
Let me put it in perspective.
Videogame Industry is bigger than music and movies combined. Fallout 4 was one of the best selling games ever. You might as well throw your money at a mountain of gold.
Oh, so ESO is running with no funding whatsoever because everything we give the goes to investors and not into continuing to support the game. Wow, who knew that ESO could run without funding. Here I only thought investors received a portion of what was left over after overheard was paid; seems ESO has invented a new way of being self-sustaining.CP: 2105 ** ESO+ ** ~~ ***** Strictly a solo PvE quester *****
~~Started Playing: May 2015 | Stopped Playing: July 2025 | Returned: March 2026~~2 -
idk✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭WalksonGraves wrote: »WalksonGraves wrote: »Tommy_The_Gun wrote: »It is a problem because additional inventory (aside from what you can unlock with in game bank / inventory upgrade) is only available via subscription. There are people out there who don't have 24 h/ day to play ESO. If you have let's say only 8h play time per week - then like 90% of subscription "time" is wasted.
I am pretty sure that it is only a mater of time for ZOS to make bank / inventory upgrade available for crowns as a one time payment. So if you reach for example maks 240 bank slots - you still be able to buy additional slots for real money.
I'm sorry but $15/mo is nothing to most people, we tend to spend more than that on fast food... so even if you only spend 8/h per week, it is still more entertainment time than you've spent eating that single fast food meal.
If you bought the game at launch with a sub you've almost paid a grand by now.
And that's a bad thing to help the company continue being successful and providing you with days, weeks, months of entertainment? How much have people spent in three years for fast food, movies, partying?!? Those still pale in comparison to how much most people get from ESO.
You realize that the amount of money you give them goes into investor pockets and not the game itself?
Let me put it in perspective.
Videogame Industry is bigger than music and movies combined. Fallout 4 was one of the best selling games ever. You might as well throw your money at a mountain of gold.
You realize that your statement is false? Something pays for the people to work on the game and develop new content like TG, DB and the upcoming expansion. Something pays for the servers maintenance and what powers them.
Yes, inventors do get a return from their investment as they should. There would not be an ESO without that caveat.
Somehow most of us get paid for going some place multiple days each week at times we rarely get to choose and do tasks that are not of our choice. That money comes from some source.
To think that just because you bought the game 3 years ago and subscribed for one year you are entitled to everything and anything is just as absurd as your inaccurate reasoning.8 -
WalksonGraves✭✭✭✭✭
✭WalksonGraves wrote: »WalksonGraves wrote: »Tommy_The_Gun wrote: »It is a problem because additional inventory (aside from what you can unlock with in game bank / inventory upgrade) is only available via subscription. There are people out there who don't have 24 h/ day to play ESO. If you have let's say only 8h play time per week - then like 90% of subscription "time" is wasted.
I am pretty sure that it is only a mater of time for ZOS to make bank / inventory upgrade available for crowns as a one time payment. So if you reach for example maks 240 bank slots - you still be able to buy additional slots for real money.
I'm sorry but $15/mo is nothing to most people, we tend to spend more than that on fast food... so even if you only spend 8/h per week, it is still more entertainment time than you've spent eating that single fast food meal.
If you bought the game at launch with a sub you've almost paid a grand by now.
And that's a bad thing to help the company continue being successful and providing you with days, weeks, months of entertainment? How much have people spent in three years for fast food, movies, partying?!? Those still pale in comparison to how much most people get from ESO.
You realize that the amount of money you give them goes into investor pockets and not the game itself?
Let me put it in perspective.
Videogame Industry is bigger than music and movies combined. Fallout 4 was one of the best selling games ever. You might as well throw your money at a mountain of gold.
Oh, so ESO is running with no funding whatsoever because everything we give the goes to investors and not into continuing to support the game. Wow, who knew that ESO could run without funding. Here I only thought investors received a portion of what was left over after overheard was paid; seems ESO has invented a new way of being self-sustaining.
Yep they never made a huge profit that could fund the game for centuries, subs are a way of squeezing the most out of you if they spent money on this game it wouldn't be a broken laggy mess.2 -
svartorn✭✭✭✭✭
✭The Uninvited wrote: »Remember when we HAD to subscribe just to play the game and DIDN'T have a crafting bag/double bank space? I do...
Free to play games always attract the worst types of players.3 -
ADarklore✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭WalksonGraves wrote: »WalksonGraves wrote: »WalksonGraves wrote: »Tommy_The_Gun wrote: »It is a problem because additional inventory (aside from what you can unlock with in game bank / inventory upgrade) is only available via subscription. There are people out there who don't have 24 h/ day to play ESO. If you have let's say only 8h play time per week - then like 90% of subscription "time" is wasted.
I am pretty sure that it is only a mater of time for ZOS to make bank / inventory upgrade available for crowns as a one time payment. So if you reach for example maks 240 bank slots - you still be able to buy additional slots for real money.
I'm sorry but $15/mo is nothing to most people, we tend to spend more than that on fast food... so even if you only spend 8/h per week, it is still more entertainment time than you've spent eating that single fast food meal.
If you bought the game at launch with a sub you've almost paid a grand by now.
And that's a bad thing to help the company continue being successful and providing you with days, weeks, months of entertainment? How much have people spent in three years for fast food, movies, partying?!? Those still pale in comparison to how much most people get from ESO.
You realize that the amount of money you give them goes into investor pockets and not the game itself?
Let me put it in perspective.
Videogame Industry is bigger than music and movies combined. Fallout 4 was one of the best selling games ever. You might as well throw your money at a mountain of gold.
Oh, so ESO is running with no funding whatsoever because everything we give the goes to investors and not into continuing to support the game. Wow, who knew that ESO could run without funding. Here I only thought investors received a portion of what was left over after overheard was paid; seems ESO has invented a new way of being self-sustaining.
Yep they never made a huge profit that could fund the game for centuries, subs are a way of squeezing the most out of you if they spent money on this game it wouldn't be a broken laggy mess.
It's nice to know you are so intimately aware of ZOS' financial situations and aren't just pulling things out of somewhere simply because you cannot make a factual point in defense of your opinion. It's always interesting when people post opinions they seem to personally accept as fact when, in fact, there is absolutely no facts to support their 'opinionated fact'... other than, this is what I've chosen to believe and so I'm going to state it as fact.CP: 2105 ** ESO+ ** ~~ ***** Strictly a solo PvE quester *****
~~Started Playing: May 2015 | Stopped Playing: July 2025 | Returned: March 2026~~0 -
anitajoneb17_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭TheStealthDude wrote: »If you don't sub, here is what you do:
Pretend like they aren't making this change to give subscriptions extra bank slots and just go on playing like you would have anyway.
Done. Simple. No more pain.The Uninvited wrote: »Remember when we HAD to subscribe just to play the game and DIDN'T have a crafting bag/double bank space? I do...
To you both and anyone who argues that we all had to manage inventory and did well with it before the crafting bag :
1/ We did not do well back then. It was a very negative aspect of the game for many people
2/ We did not have VR15-VR16 materials to farm and store back then
3/ We did not have poison alchemy ingredients back then
4/ We did not have stolen stuff back then (prior to justice system)
5/ We did not have undaunted keys back then (prior to undaunted dailies)
6/ We did not have furniture crafting ingredients back then (prior to housing)
7/ We did not have perfect roe back then
8/ We did not have recipe fragments back then
9/ We did not have motif fragments back then
10/ We did not have trophy vault keys back then
11/ We did not have furniture back then
I probably forgot some of it, but my point is, you cannot compare before and now in terms of inventory management and simply pretend we've just got used to convenience. The truth is, that the quantity of items that we may want or need to store has literally EXPLODED.
As a consequence, the crafting bag and the soon-to-come doubled bank space don't appear as improved quality of life feature for subbers. It feels like a compulsory expense in order to not suffer from a diminished, downgraded game experience.
I sub myself. But I still wish ZOS would have come up with something more creative.
Edited by anitajoneb17_ESO on April 6, 2017 4:29PM3 -
WalksonGraves✭✭✭✭✭
✭The Uninvited wrote: »Remember when we HAD to subscribe just to play the game and DIDN'T have a crafting bag/double bank space? I do...
Free to play games always attract the worst types of players.
Yeah, like people who play devil's advocate for bad desigWalksonGraves wrote: »WalksonGraves wrote: »WalksonGraves wrote: »Tommy_The_Gun wrote: »It is a problem because additional inventory (aside from what you can unlock with in game bank / inventory upgrade) is only available via subscription. There are people out there who don't have 24 h/ day to play ESO. If you have let's say only 8h play time per week - then like 90% of subscription "time" is wasted.
I am pretty sure that it is only a mater of time for ZOS to make bank / inventory upgrade available for crowns as a one time payment. So if you reach for example maks 240 bank slots - you still be able to buy additional slots for real money.
I'm sorry but $15/mo is nothing to most people, we tend to spend more than that on fast food... so even if you only spend 8/h per week, it is still more entertainment time than you've spent eating that single fast food meal.
If you bought the game at launch with a sub you've almost paid a grand by now.
And that's a bad thing to help the company continue being successful and providing you with days, weeks, months of entertainment? How much have people spent in three years for fast food, movies, partying?!? Those still pale in comparison to how much most people get from ESO.
You realize that the amount of money you give them goes into investor pockets and not the game itself?
Let me put it in perspective.
Videogame Industry is bigger than music and movies combined. Fallout 4 was one of the best selling games ever. You might as well throw your money at a mountain of gold.
Oh, so ESO is running with no funding whatsoever because everything we give the goes to investors and not into continuing to support the game. Wow, who knew that ESO could run without funding. Here I only thought investors received a portion of what was left over after overheard was paid; seems ESO has invented a new way of being self-sustaining.
Yep they never made a huge profit that could fund the game for centuries, subs are a way of squeezing the most out of you if they spent money on this game it wouldn't be a broken laggy mess.
It's nice to know you are so intimately aware of ZOS' financial situations and aren't just pulling things out of somewhere simply because you cannot make a factual point in defense of your opinion. It's always interesting when people post opinions they seem to personally accept as fact when, in fact, there is absolutely no facts to support their 'opinionated fact'... other than, this is what I've chosen to believe and so I'm going to state it as fact.
Zenimax total equity 2016: 2.5b
Yeah they need your pennies2 -
ADarklore✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭WalksonGraves wrote: »The Uninvited wrote: »Remember when we HAD to subscribe just to play the game and DIDN'T have a crafting bag/double bank space? I do...
Free to play games always attract the worst types of players.
Yeah, like people who play devil's advocate for bad desigWalksonGraves wrote: »WalksonGraves wrote: »WalksonGraves wrote: »Tommy_The_Gun wrote: »It is a problem because additional inventory (aside from what you can unlock with in game bank / inventory upgrade) is only available via subscription. There are people out there who don't have 24 h/ day to play ESO. If you have let's say only 8h play time per week - then like 90% of subscription "time" is wasted.
I am pretty sure that it is only a mater of time for ZOS to make bank / inventory upgrade available for crowns as a one time payment. So if you reach for example maks 240 bank slots - you still be able to buy additional slots for real money.
I'm sorry but $15/mo is nothing to most people, we tend to spend more than that on fast food... so even if you only spend 8/h per week, it is still more entertainment time than you've spent eating that single fast food meal.
If you bought the game at launch with a sub you've almost paid a grand by now.
And that's a bad thing to help the company continue being successful and providing you with days, weeks, months of entertainment? How much have people spent in three years for fast food, movies, partying?!? Those still pale in comparison to how much most people get from ESO.
You realize that the amount of money you give them goes into investor pockets and not the game itself?
Let me put it in perspective.
Videogame Industry is bigger than music and movies combined. Fallout 4 was one of the best selling games ever. You might as well throw your money at a mountain of gold.
Oh, so ESO is running with no funding whatsoever because everything we give the goes to investors and not into continuing to support the game. Wow, who knew that ESO could run without funding. Here I only thought investors received a portion of what was left over after overheard was paid; seems ESO has invented a new way of being self-sustaining.
Yep they never made a huge profit that could fund the game for centuries, subs are a way of squeezing the most out of you if they spent money on this game it wouldn't be a broken laggy mess.
It's nice to know you are so intimately aware of ZOS' financial situations and aren't just pulling things out of somewhere simply because you cannot make a factual point in defense of your opinion. It's always interesting when people post opinions they seem to personally accept as fact when, in fact, there is absolutely no facts to support their 'opinionated fact'... other than, this is what I've chosen to believe and so I'm going to state it as fact.
Zenimax total equity 2016: 2.5b
Yeah they need your pennies
Oh, I'm sorry... but Zenimax is the PARENT company, Zenimax Online Studios is ZOS. What profits one has does not mean that it is shared with the other.CP: 2105 ** ESO+ ** ~~ ***** Strictly a solo PvE quester *****
~~Started Playing: May 2015 | Stopped Playing: July 2025 | Returned: March 2026~~3 -
DMuehlhausen✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭It does seem they've found the perfect pain point to monetise.
I just hope they stop soon before we reach SWTOR levels of Free to Play*
*if you don't mind being so limited on everything you're basically only allowed to log in and look at your character.
You can't even begin to make the comparison. I mean come on in SWTOR if you don't sub you can only run like 1 dungeon a day, only have like 1 crafting skill, and only get like 2 crew members. You don't get anywhere near the full game.
Here you get the full game if you don't pay. They are just making things easier on people who are willing to pay. So there really is nothing to complain about. If you have a job and can't afford like 16.06$ a month on a game then maybe you shouldn't playing the game..oh wait it's free for 100% of the game minus some storage.3 -
Jim_Pipp✭✭✭✭✭
✭OK guys and gals, let's chill because this thread will get closed if there are personal attacks.
Let's clear some things up.
1) zos could increase bank space for everyone, they arent doing that because... well I'll discuss later.
2) no-one knows who is a freeloader. Being a sub for 6 months may of cost less than someone who goes mad in the crownstore, we don't know what anyone spends and the game is sold as buy to play so let's agree everyone gas a right to play.
3) you don't have defend zos's right to make money. If you believe companies exist to benefit themselves that is fine, but extend that free market thinking to yourself and don't use contadictory phrases like 'supporting the company' because you should focus on getting the best deal for yourself. Equally, if you care about zos and want to support them financially then the subscription is the perfect way, and they are giving you something for it.
Now, onto the problem.
Zos has deliberately created a game with inconvenient inventory problems. I like the tittle of this thread, it hits the nail on the head.
There are three kinds of subscription.
1) don't sub
2) sometimes sub
3) long term subscriber.
Doubling the bank space has no effect on people in group 1 or group 2. It is only a benefit to people in group 3. I believe long term subscribers do deserve awesome benefits. But is this a benefit?
Initially a long term subscriber will have double inventory, which everyone else is very jealous of.
But what if the long term subscriber wants to unsubscribe (perhaps because no new dlc will be added for 6-9 months... just like now when lots of subscribers are rethinking), well loosing your extra items is a disincentive against unsubscribing (sorry for the double negative).
Meanwhile people who don't sub long term don't have this newly created problem (they have the same problem we have had for ages).
I believe this change isn't intended to attract new subscribers. It is to keep existing subscribers. Therefore it is actually going to be a negative for the people it is intended to benefit.
The alternative? There are 1000's of suggested ways to improve eso plus. If they were implemented then we could get storage in houses instead.
Tldr- subscribers should object to this benefit because it will hurt them eventually, and if it comes in then it will be instead of more benefit to eso plus and more storage for everyone.
Sorry for ranting.#1 tip (Re)check your graphics settings periodically - especially resolution.2 -
idk✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭WalksonGraves wrote: »The Uninvited wrote: »Remember when we HAD to subscribe just to play the game and DIDN'T have a crafting bag/double bank space? I do...
Free to play games always attract the worst types of players.
Yeah, like people who play devil's advocate for bad desigWalksonGraves wrote: »WalksonGraves wrote: »WalksonGraves wrote: »Tommy_The_Gun wrote: »It is a problem because additional inventory (aside from what you can unlock with in game bank / inventory upgrade) is only available via subscription. There are people out there who don't have 24 h/ day to play ESO. If you have let's say only 8h play time per week - then like 90% of subscription "time" is wasted.
I am pretty sure that it is only a mater of time for ZOS to make bank / inventory upgrade available for crowns as a one time payment. So if you reach for example maks 240 bank slots - you still be able to buy additional slots for real money.
I'm sorry but $15/mo is nothing to most people, we tend to spend more than that on fast food... so even if you only spend 8/h per week, it is still more entertainment time than you've spent eating that single fast food meal.
If you bought the game at launch with a sub you've almost paid a grand by now.
And that's a bad thing to help the company continue being successful and providing you with days, weeks, months of entertainment? How much have people spent in three years for fast food, movies, partying?!? Those still pale in comparison to how much most people get from ESO.
You realize that the amount of money you give them goes into investor pockets and not the game itself?
Let me put it in perspective.
Videogame Industry is bigger than music and movies combined. Fallout 4 was one of the best selling games ever. You might as well throw your money at a mountain of gold.
Oh, so ESO is running with no funding whatsoever because everything we give the goes to investors and not into continuing to support the game. Wow, who knew that ESO could run without funding. Here I only thought investors received a portion of what was left over after overheard was paid; seems ESO has invented a new way of being self-sustaining.
Yep they never made a huge profit that could fund the game for centuries, subs are a way of squeezing the most out of you if they spent money on this game it wouldn't be a broken laggy mess.
It's nice to know you are so intimately aware of ZOS' financial situations and aren't just pulling things out of somewhere simply because you cannot make a factual point in defense of your opinion. It's always interesting when people post opinions they seem to personally accept as fact when, in fact, there is absolutely no facts to support their 'opinionated fact'... other than, this is what I've chosen to believe and so I'm going to state it as fact.
Zenimax total equity 2016: 2.5b
Yeah they need your pennies
For a business lesson I refer you to what I quoted below.WalksonGraves wrote: »The Uninvited wrote: »Remember when we HAD to subscribe just to play the game and DIDN'T have a crafting bag/double bank space? I do...
Free to play games always attract the worst types of players.
Yeah, like people who play devil's advocate for bad desigWalksonGraves wrote: »WalksonGraves wrote: »WalksonGraves wrote: »Tommy_The_Gun wrote: »It is a problem because additional inventory (aside from what you can unlock with in game bank / inventory upgrade) is only available via subscription. There are people out there who don't have 24 h/ day to play ESO. If you have let's say only 8h play time per week - then like 90% of subscription "time" is wasted.
I am pretty sure that it is only a mater of time for ZOS to make bank / inventory upgrade available for crowns as a one time payment. So if you reach for example maks 240 bank slots - you still be able to buy additional slots for real money.
I'm sorry but $15/mo is nothing to most people, we tend to spend more than that on fast food... so even if you only spend 8/h per week, it is still more entertainment time than you've spent eating that single fast food meal.
If you bought the game at launch with a sub you've almost paid a grand by now.
And that's a bad thing to help the company continue being successful and providing you with days, weeks, months of entertainment? How much have people spent in three years for fast food, movies, partying?!? Those still pale in comparison to how much most people get from ESO.
You realize that the amount of money you give them goes into investor pockets and not the game itself?
Let me put it in perspective.
Videogame Industry is bigger than music and movies combined. Fallout 4 was one of the best selling games ever. You might as well throw your money at a mountain of gold.
Oh, so ESO is running with no funding whatsoever because everything we give the goes to investors and not into continuing to support the game. Wow, who knew that ESO could run without funding. Here I only thought investors received a portion of what was left over after overheard was paid; seems ESO has invented a new way of being self-sustaining.
Yep they never made a huge profit that could fund the game for centuries, subs are a way of squeezing the most out of you if they spent money on this game it wouldn't be a broken laggy mess.
It's nice to know you are so intimately aware of ZOS' financial situations and aren't just pulling things out of somewhere simply because you cannot make a factual point in defense of your opinion. It's always interesting when people post opinions they seem to personally accept as fact when, in fact, there is absolutely no facts to support their 'opinionated fact'... other than, this is what I've chosen to believe and so I'm going to state it as fact.
Zenimax total equity 2016: 2.5b
Yeah they need your pennies
Oh, I'm sorry... but Zenimax is the PARENT company, Zenimax Online Studios is ZOS. What profits one has does not mean that it is shared with the other.
I did not feel the need to restate the same insightful comment.Edited by idk on April 6, 2017 4:28PM1 -
Bouldercleave✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭WalksonGraves wrote: »Tommy_The_Gun wrote: »It is a problem because additional inventory (aside from what you can unlock with in game bank / inventory upgrade) is only available via subscription. There are people out there who don't have 24 h/ day to play ESO. If you have let's say only 8h play time per week - then like 90% of subscription "time" is wasted.
I am pretty sure that it is only a mater of time for ZOS to make bank / inventory upgrade available for crowns as a one time payment. So if you reach for example maks 240 bank slots - you still be able to buy additional slots for real money.
I'm sorry but $15/mo is nothing to most people, we tend to spend more than that on fast food... so even if you only spend 8/h per week, it is still more entertainment time than you've spent eating that single fast food meal.
If you bought the game at launch with a sub you've almost paid a grand by now.
No you have not.
Say 60 bucks for the game and 15 per month for 3 years is about $600.00 NOT $1,000.00
$600.00 for 3 years of casual to hardcore entertainment? Not a bad return on the investment.
6 -
Tryxus✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Inventory as a weapon?
Anyways
There had been a large outcry by subs when ZOS announced that Chapter access wasn't going to be included in ESO+, causing it to lose some value.
It seems that ZOS is trying to make the sub just as valuable as before the loss of a DLC by adding a nice and often requested feature to it. And thankfully not one that should be locked behind a sub (lookin' at ya, Gear Restyle).
I don't sub tho, and I wouldn't call myself a freeloader either (having a reputation of possessing the most extensive wardrobe in some of my guilds), but I think this is a good addition"Stand strong, stay true and shelter all."
Tryxus - Guardian of the Green - Warden - PC/EU0 -
ADarklore✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭OK guys and gals, let's chill because this thread will get closed if there are personal attacks.
Let's clear some things up.
1) zos could increase bank space for everyone, they arent doing that because... well I'll discuss later.
2) no-one knows who is a freeloader. Being a sub for 6 months may of cost less than someone who goes mad in the crownstore, we don't know what anyone spends and the game is sold as buy to play so let's agree everyone gas a right to play.
3) you don't have defend zos's right to make money. If you believe companies exist to benefit themselves that is fine, but extend that free market thinking to yourself and don't use contadictory phrases like 'supporting the company' because you should focus on getting the best deal for yourself. Equally, if you care about zos and want to support them financially then the subscription is the perfect way, and they are giving you something for it.
Now, onto the problem.
Zos has deliberately created a game with inconvenient inventory problems. I like the tittle of this thread, it hits the nail on the head.
There are three kinds of subscription.
1) don't sub
2) sometimes sub
3) long term subscriber.
Doubling the bank space has no effect on people in group 1 or group 2. It is only a benefit to people in group 3. I believe long term subscribers do deserve awesome benefits. But is this a benefit?
Initially a long term subscriber will have double inventory, which everyone else is very jealous of.
But what if the long term subscriber wants to unsubscribe (perhaps because no new dlc will be added for 6-9 months... just like now when lots of subscribers are rethinking), well loosing your extra items is a disincentive against unsubscribing (sorry for the double negative).
Meanwhile people who don't sub long term don't have this newly created problem (they have the same problem we have had for ages).
I believe this change isn't intended to attract new subscribers. It is to keep existing subscribers. Therefore it is actually going to be a negative for the people it is intended to benefit.
The alternative? There are 1000's of suggested ways to improve eso plus. If they were implemented then we could get storage in houses instead.
Tldr- subscribers should object to this benefit because it will hurt them eventually, and if it comes in then it will be instead of more benefit to eso plus and more storage for everyone.
Sorry for ranting.
Just a note on the bolded portion, you NEVER lose your items if you discontinue subscribing, what will happen is you won't be able to put anything into your bank until your bank inventory drops back down below non-sub levels just like how Crafting Bag works.CP: 2105 ** ESO+ ** ~~ ***** Strictly a solo PvE quester *****
~~Started Playing: May 2015 | Stopped Playing: July 2025 | Returned: March 2026~~2 -
WalksonGraves✭✭✭✭✭
✭Giles.floydub17_ESO wrote: »WalksonGraves wrote: »The Uninvited wrote: »Remember when we HAD to subscribe just to play the game and DIDN'T have a crafting bag/double bank space? I do...
Free to play games always attract the worst types of players.
Yeah, like people who play devil's advocate for bad desigWalksonGraves wrote: »WalksonGraves wrote: »WalksonGraves wrote: »Tommy_The_Gun wrote: »It is a problem because additional inventory (aside from what you can unlock with in game bank / inventory upgrade) is only available via subscription. There are people out there who don't have 24 h/ day to play ESO. If you have let's say only 8h play time per week - then like 90% of subscription "time" is wasted.
I am pretty sure that it is only a mater of time for ZOS to make bank / inventory upgrade available for crowns as a one time payment. So if you reach for example maks 240 bank slots - you still be able to buy additional slots for real money.
I'm sorry but $15/mo is nothing to most people, we tend to spend more than that on fast food... so even if you only spend 8/h per week, it is still more entertainment time than you've spent eating that single fast food meal.
If you bought the game at launch with a sub you've almost paid a grand by now.
And that's a bad thing to help the company continue being successful and providing you with days, weeks, months of entertainment? How much have people spent in three years for fast food, movies, partying?!? Those still pale in comparison to how much most people get from ESO.
You realize that the amount of money you give them goes into investor pockets and not the game itself?
Let me put it in perspective.
Videogame Industry is bigger than music and movies combined. Fallout 4 was one of the best selling games ever. You might as well throw your money at a mountain of gold.
Oh, so ESO is running with no funding whatsoever because everything we give the goes to investors and not into continuing to support the game. Wow, who knew that ESO could run without funding. Here I only thought investors received a portion of what was left over after overheard was paid; seems ESO has invented a new way of being self-sustaining.
Yep they never made a huge profit that could fund the game for centuries, subs are a way of squeezing the most out of you if they spent money on this game it wouldn't be a broken laggy mess.
It's nice to know you are so intimately aware of ZOS' financial situations and aren't just pulling things out of somewhere simply because you cannot make a factual point in defense of your opinion. It's always interesting when people post opinions they seem to personally accept as fact when, in fact, there is absolutely no facts to support their 'opinionated fact'... other than, this is what I've chosen to believe and so I'm going to state it as fact.
Zenimax total equity 2016: 2.5b
Yeah they need your pennies
For a business lesson I refer you to what I quoted below.WalksonGraves wrote: »The Uninvited wrote: »Remember when we HAD to subscribe just to play the game and DIDN'T have a crafting bag/double bank space? I do...
Free to play games always attract the worst types of players.
Yeah, like people who play devil's advocate for bad desigWalksonGraves wrote: »WalksonGraves wrote: »WalksonGraves wrote: »Tommy_The_Gun wrote: »It is a problem because additional inventory (aside from what you can unlock with in game bank / inventory upgrade) is only available via subscription. There are people out there who don't have 24 h/ day to play ESO. If you have let's say only 8h play time per week - then like 90% of subscription "time" is wasted.
I am pretty sure that it is only a mater of time for ZOS to make bank / inventory upgrade available for crowns as a one time payment. So if you reach for example maks 240 bank slots - you still be able to buy additional slots for real money.
I'm sorry but $15/mo is nothing to most people, we tend to spend more than that on fast food... so even if you only spend 8/h per week, it is still more entertainment time than you've spent eating that single fast food meal.
If you bought the game at launch with a sub you've almost paid a grand by now.
And that's a bad thing to help the company continue being successful and providing you with days, weeks, months of entertainment? How much have people spent in three years for fast food, movies, partying?!? Those still pale in comparison to how much most people get from ESO.
You realize that the amount of money you give them goes into investor pockets and not the game itself?
Let me put it in perspective.
Videogame Industry is bigger than music and movies combined. Fallout 4 was one of the best selling games ever. You might as well throw your money at a mountain of gold.
Oh, so ESO is running with no funding whatsoever because everything we give the goes to investors and not into continuing to support the game. Wow, who knew that ESO could run without funding. Here I only thought investors received a portion of what was left over after overheard was paid; seems ESO has invented a new way of being self-sustaining.
Yep they never made a huge profit that could fund the game for centuries, subs are a way of squeezing the most out of you if they spent money on this game it wouldn't be a broken laggy mess.
It's nice to know you are so intimately aware of ZOS' financial situations and aren't just pulling things out of somewhere simply because you cannot make a factual point in defense of your opinion. It's always interesting when people post opinions they seem to personally accept as fact when, in fact, there is absolutely no facts to support their 'opinionated fact'... other than, this is what I've chosen to believe and so I'm going to state it as fact.
Zenimax total equity 2016: 2.5b
Yeah they need your pennies
Oh, I'm sorry... but Zenimax is the PARENT company, Zenimax Online Studios is ZOS. What profits one has does not mean that it is shared with the other.
I did not feel the need to restate the same insightful comment.
Yeah I'm sure that the parent company founded by the creators of the elderscrolls have no connection financially. I mean since I don't handle their finances I can't say 100% but im pretty sure parent companies inject capital into subsidiaries on occasion.0 -
Asardes✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭Well, I've probably spent slightly more than 100 EUR in game in about 1.5 years so I don't feel guilty at all. I never subbed and I never will since I manage without craft bag and even without temporary extra bank space. It only incentivizes me to be more efficient in managing inventory: not keeping trash, selling surplus on guilds etc. I continue to adapt and become more efficient at this. I will buy permanent storage upgrade if it becomes available but never rent it.Beta tester since February 2014, played ESO-TU October 2015 - August 2022, currently on an extended break
vMA (The Flawless Conqueror) | vVH (Spirit Slayer & of the Undying Song) | vDSA | vAA HM | vHRC HM | vSO HM | vMoL | vAS+1 | Emperor
PC-EU CP 3000+
41,000+ Achievement Points before High IsleMember of:
Pact Veteran Trade: Exemplary
Traders of the Covenant: God of Sales
Tamriels Emporium: God of Sales
Valinor Overflow: Trader
The Traveling Merchant: Silver
Characters:
Asardes | 50 Nord Dragonknight | EP AR 50 | Master Crafter: all traits & recipes, all styles released before High Isle
Alxaril Nelcarion | 50 High Elf Sorcerer | AD AR 20 |
Dro'Bear Three-paws | 50 Khajiit Nightblade | AD AR 20 |
Veronique Nicole | 50 Breton Templar | DC AR 20 |
Sabina Flavia Cosades | 50 Imperial Warden | EP AR 20 |
Ervesa Neloren | 50 Dark Elf Dragonknight | EP AR 20 |
Fendar Khodwin | 50 Redguard Sorcerer | DC AR 20 |
Surilanwe of Lillandril | 50 High Elf Nightblade | AD AR 20 |
Joleen the Swift | 50 Redguard Templar | DC AR 20 |
Draynor Telvanni | 50 Dark Elf Warden | EP AR 20 |
Claudius Tharn | 50 Necromancer | DC AR 20 |
Nazura-la the Bonedancer | 50 Necromancer | AD AR 20 |
Tharkul gro-Shug | 50 Orc Dragonknight | DC AR 4 |
Ushruka gra-Lhurgash | 50 Orc Sorcerer | AD AR 4 |
Cienwen ferch Llywelyn | 50 Breton Nightblade | DC AR 4 |
Plays-with-Sunray | 50 Argonian Templar | EP AR 4 |
Milariel | 50 Wood Elf Warden | AD AR 4 |
Scheei-Jul | 50 Necromancer | EP AR 4 |
PC-NA CP 1800+
30,000+ Achievement Points before High IsleMember of:
Savage Blade: Majestic Machette
Characters:
Asardes the Exile | 50 Nord Dragonknight | EP AR 30 |0 -
Jim_Pipp✭✭✭✭✭
✭OK guys and gals, let's chill because this thread will get closed if there are personal attacks.
Let's clear some things up.
1) zos could increase bank space for everyone, they arent doing that because... well I'll discuss later.
2) no-one knows who is a freeloader. Being a sub for 6 months may of cost less than someone who goes mad in the crownstore, we don't know what anyone spends and the game is sold as buy to play so let's agree everyone gas a right to play.
3) you don't have defend zos's right to make money. If you believe companies exist to benefit themselves that is fine, but extend that free market thinking to yourself and don't use contadictory phrases like 'supporting the company' because you should focus on getting the best deal for yourself. Equally, if you care about zos and want to support them financially then the subscription is the perfect way, and they are giving you something for it.
Now, onto the problem.
Zos has deliberately created a game with inconvenient inventory problems. I like the tittle of this thread, it hits the nail on the head.
There are three kinds of subscription.
1) don't sub
2) sometimes sub
3) long term subscriber.
Doubling the bank space has no effect on people in group 1 or group 2. It is only a benefit to people in group 3. I believe long term subscribers do deserve awesome benefits. But is this a benefit?
Initially a long term subscriber will have double inventory, which everyone else is very jealous of.
But what if the long term subscriber wants to unsubscribe (perhaps because no new dlc will be added for 6-9 months... just like now when lots of subscribers are rethinking), well loosing your extra items is a disincentive against unsubscribing (sorry for the double negative).
Meanwhile people who don't sub long term don't have this newly created problem (they have the same problem we have had for ages).
I believe this change isn't intended to attract new subscribers. It is to keep existing subscribers. Therefore it is actually going to be a negative for the people it is intended to benefit.
The alternative? There are 1000's of suggested ways to improve eso plus. If they were implemented then we could get storage in houses instead.
Tldr- subscribers should object to this benefit because it will hurt them eventually, and if it comes in then it will be instead of more benefit to eso plus and more storage for everyone.
Sorry for ranting.
Just a note on the bolded portion, you NEVER lose your items if you discontinue subscribing, what will happen is you won't be able to put anything into your bank until your bank inventory drops back down below non-sub levels just like how Crafting Bag works.
Point taken. I won't change it because it would leave your comment out of context. What I mean is that you won't be able to use your bank until you can remove however many items you need to to get under the normal limit.
Good luck doing that bank sort out without using your bank to move things around. For most players it will mean getting rid of items they had wanted to save. I think that is the disincentive that will keep them subbing even if they would rather not.#1 tip (Re)check your graphics settings periodically - especially resolution.0 -
MasterSpatula✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭I subscribe to pay for content. I would really prefer if my subscription paid for content. Making the bad parts of the experience less painful for me than for non-subs doesn't seem like a good idea.
I would be fine if the doubled everyone's available bank space and then gave full access to that space to subs. But giving us more space than non-subs means I'm paying for exactly the kind of things I think the sub should do.
And yes, this is exactly the kind of crap that made me wash my hands of SWTOR."A probable impossibility is preferable to an improbable possibility." - Aristotle2 -
idk✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭It is past time to let this thread die. OPs thread is about the feeling of entitlement.
He does not care about what any of us have to say. He does not care about how the real world works. He merely cares about what he feels. He merely spouts half truths and sometimes completely false comments in an attempt to buttress his baseless claim.
We are just feeding his attempt to sow discord.3 -
FlyLionel✭✭✭✭TheStealthDude wrote: »If you don't sub, here is what you do:
Pretend like they aren't making this change to give subscriptions extra bank slots and just go on playing like you would have anyway.
Done. Simple. No more pain.
So you are perfectly fine with not getting Morrowind included in the sub, so instead all you get is more bank space to compensate for all the Morrowind item/sets which you are going to buy/farm anyways? 'Caught in the loop' is what I call subs who are going to buy Morrowind and continue to sub. Homestead and 1T came out, Morrowind next and this is all dodging by saying free or pay seperate updates(yes not dlc). Yes they gave you your little cute bonuses for more furniture slots, and craft bags awesome. I am not a subscriber currently but have subbed in the past and I feel bad for you people, somewhat. I know every subscriber is enjoying the old content even up to this day, but still three times? I wonder how zos made money to implement those 'free updates' so everyone could enjoy. Crown crates or base game sales? Cannot wait for Morrowind though, going to be a blast.The Flyers1 -
WalksonGraves✭✭✭✭✭
✭Giles.floydub17_ESO wrote: »It is past time to let this thread die. OPs thread is about the feeling of entitlement.
He does not care about what any of us have to say. He does not care about how the real world works. He merely cares about what he feels. He merely spouts half truths and sometimes completely false comments in an attempt to buttress his baseless claim.
We are just feeding his attempt to sow discord.
All I did ways say zos should use the carrot instead of the stick to drive subs. You guys just love to argue EVERYTHING. "I pay sub so f you" isn't a great argument. I'm sorry you're upset that you think you spent more money than other people.Edited by WalksonGraves on April 6, 2017 4:45PM4 -
Elsonso✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭WalksonGraves wrote: »If you bought the game at launch with a sub you've almost paid a grand by now.
May 9, 2014, was the first full subscription day for this game, it being the 35th day following launch. This month, we will have the 1080th consecutive subscription day since then. That means that, on April 22, anyone who has subscribed to ESO since launch will have paid for 36 consecutive ESO/ESO Plus subscription months.
$540 Subscription for 1080 days @ $15 per 30 days
$60 Base game
Adds up to $600, which my accountant says is not "almost a grand".
XBox EU/NA:@ElsonsoJannus
PC NA/EU: @Elsonso
PSN NA/EU: @ElsonsoJannus
Total in-game hours: 11321
X/Twitter: ElsonsoJannus3 -
ADarklore✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭OK guys and gals, let's chill because this thread will get closed if there are personal attacks.
Let's clear some things up.
1) zos could increase bank space for everyone, they arent doing that because... well I'll discuss later.
2) no-one knows who is a freeloader. Being a sub for 6 months may of cost less than someone who goes mad in the crownstore, we don't know what anyone spends and the game is sold as buy to play so let's agree everyone gas a right to play.
3) you don't have defend zos's right to make money. If you believe companies exist to benefit themselves that is fine, but extend that free market thinking to yourself and don't use contadictory phrases like 'supporting the company' because you should focus on getting the best deal for yourself. Equally, if you care about zos and want to support them financially then the subscription is the perfect way, and they are giving you something for it.
Now, onto the problem.
Zos has deliberately created a game with inconvenient inventory problems. I like the tittle of this thread, it hits the nail on the head.
There are three kinds of subscription.
1) don't sub
2) sometimes sub
3) long term subscriber.
Doubling the bank space has no effect on people in group 1 or group 2. It is only a benefit to people in group 3. I believe long term subscribers do deserve awesome benefits. But is this a benefit?
Initially a long term subscriber will have double inventory, which everyone else is very jealous of.
But what if the long term subscriber wants to unsubscribe (perhaps because no new dlc will be added for 6-9 months... just like now when lots of subscribers are rethinking), well loosing your extra items is a disincentive against unsubscribing (sorry for the double negative).
Meanwhile people who don't sub long term don't have this newly created problem (they have the same problem we have had for ages).
I believe this change isn't intended to attract new subscribers. It is to keep existing subscribers. Therefore it is actually going to be a negative for the people it is intended to benefit.
The alternative? There are 1000's of suggested ways to improve eso plus. If they were implemented then we could get storage in houses instead.
Tldr- subscribers should object to this benefit because it will hurt them eventually, and if it comes in then it will be instead of more benefit to eso plus and more storage for everyone.
Sorry for ranting.
Just a note on the bolded portion, you NEVER lose your items if you discontinue subscribing, what will happen is you won't be able to put anything into your bank until your bank inventory drops back down below non-sub levels just like how Crafting Bag works.
Point taken. I won't change it because it would leave your comment out of context. What I mean is that you won't be able to use your bank until you can remove however many items you need to to get under the normal limit.
Good luck doing that bank sort out without using your bank to move things around. For most players it will mean getting rid of items they had wanted to save. I think that is the disincentive that will keep them subbing even if they would rather not.
Ok, I didn't realize that was how you meant, but I agree, I think that is part of their agenda... they don't want people unsubbing, so I am sure they carefully chose adding bank space as a means of forcing people to remain subbed or else suffering a major inventory dilemma after unsubbing.CP: 2105 ** ESO+ ** ~~ ***** Strictly a solo PvE quester *****
~~Started Playing: May 2015 | Stopped Playing: July 2025 | Returned: March 2026~~0 -
WalksonGraves✭✭✭✭✭
✭lordrichter wrote: »WalksonGraves wrote: »If you bought the game at launch with a sub you've almost paid a grand by now.
May 9, 2014, was the first full subscription day for this game, it being the 35th day following launch. This month, we will have the 1080th consecutive subscription day since then. That means that, on April 22, anyone who has subscribed to ESO since launch will have paid for 36 consecutive ESO/ESO Plus subscription months.
$540 Subscription for 1080 days @ $15 per 30 days
$60 Base game
Adds up to $600, which my accountant says is not "almost a grand".
I'm Canadian, the base game was 100$. We get screwed on conversion. Probably should have specified CAD vs USD.
You probably would have bought dlcs or crowns at some point.Edited by WalksonGraves on April 6, 2017 4:50PM0 -
Gordon906✭✭✭I don't see adding these type of additions to the game as being an 'a$$' to non-subs, I see it as incentivizing ESO+. A 'one-time' purchase (B2P) is not adding funds over time, a subscription is. And while many non-subs do make purchases from the Crown Store, I am willing to bet that a large portion of non-subs don't make a whole lot of purchases because, in all honesty, they're not as heavily invested in the game as subscribers are. Again, I didn't say ALL non-subs are like this, so don't make it sound like that's what I'm saying.
Hah, think again (probably spent more than 200$ on crowns in a span of a month) :P0
This discussion has been closed.