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ZOS stop using inventory as a weapon
WalksonGraves
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So the only real benefit of subscription is storage space, crowns become meaninglessness since the new dlcs don't take them and I doubt most people want all the trash cosmetics available. All the crown consumables you pack in to crown crates are worthless, I hope no poor sap actually spent money on crown food equivalent of a cheap ingame craftable.
I'd say the money goes to servers but 3 years of lag and crashes from a company that made more money than the gdp of a small country indicate otherwise.
So ZOS tactics for retaining subs: be stingy with space, annoy your playerbase with micromanaging, constantly give them garbage event disposable items to fill their inventory, maps to find garbage, etc.
To top it all off, housing adds no storage and extra furniture ends up in the bank.
If you're going to suck people's wallets dry at least offer something better not just making the game purposely unpleasant for non subs.
Edited by WalksonGraves on April 6, 2017 3:08PM I'd say the money goes to servers but 3 years of lag and crashes from a company that made more money than the gdp of a small country indicate otherwise.
So ZOS tactics for retaining subs: be stingy with space, annoy your playerbase with micromanaging, constantly give them garbage event disposable items to fill their inventory, maps to find garbage, etc.
To top it all off, housing adds no storage and extra furniture ends up in the bank.
If you're going to suck people's wallets dry at least offer something better not just making the game purposely unpleasant for non subs.
17
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Turelus✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭It does seem they've found the perfect pain point to monetise.
I just hope they stop soon before we reach SWTOR levels of Free to Play*
*if you don't mind being so limited on everything you're basically only allowed to log in and look at your character.@Turelus - EU PC Megaserver
"Don't count on others for help. In the end each of us is in this alone. The survivors are those who know how to look out for themselves."8 -
idk✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭I have to agree with OP. Personally, I think Zos should have gone the way of reducing XP for non subs by 3/4s, blocking them from raiding and PvP and preventing them from wearing epic or legendary armor and reducing the number of the original character slots to 2 (does not include additional slots purchased for crowns.
That would go a long way to incentivize subscribing instead of giving subs more inventory space since that extra inventory space becomes a headache to manage during periods the player is not subscribed.
Further, Zos could sell via the crown store means to unlock trials or PvP for a week on one character and make extra revenue.7 -
Turelus✭✭✭✭✭
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Not sure if sarcasm or not, but in case this isn't. That's also the business model which won SWTOR worst MMO business model last year.Giles.floydub17_ESO wrote: »I have to agree with OP. Personally, I think Zos should have gone the way of reducing XP for non subs by 3/4s, blocking them from raiding and PvP and preventing them from wearing epic or legendary armor and reducing the number of the original character slots to 2 (does not include additional slots purchased for crowns.
That would go a long way to incentivize subscribing instead of giving subs more inventory space since that extra inventory space becomes a headache to manage during periods the player is not subscribed.
Further, Zos could sell via the crown store means to unlock trials or PvP for a week on one character and make extra revenue.
It's completely scummy to not be a sub there, it's not about benefits and bonus for sub but heavy penalties on non-sub.@Turelus - EU PC Megaserver
"Don't count on others for help. In the end each of us is in this alone. The survivors are those who know how to look out for themselves."8 -
The Uninvited✭✭✭✭✭
✭Remember when we HAD to subscribe just to play the game and DIDN'T have a crafting bag/double bank space? I do...Pandora's Promise (rip) | LND | Pactriotic | IKnowWhatUDidLastWinter's | The Uninvited |
Ride the paranoia | All life is pain | Only the grave is real9 -
TheStealthDude✭✭✭✭If you don't sub, here is what you do:
Pretend like they aren't making this change to give subscriptions extra bank slots and just go on playing like you would have anyway.
Done. Simple. No more pain.7 -
WalksonGraves✭✭✭✭✭
✭Giles.floydub17_ESO wrote: »I have to agree with OP. Personally, I think Zos should have gone the way of reducing XP for non subs by 3/4s, blocking them from raiding and PvP and preventing them from wearing epic or legendary armor and reducing the number of the original character slots to 2 (does not include additional slots purchased for crowns.
That would go a long way to incentivize subscribing instead of giving subs more inventory space since that extra inventory space becomes a headache to manage during periods the player is not subscribed.
Further, Zos could sell via the crown store means to unlock trials or PvP for a week on one character and make extra revenue.
You just described neverwinter, (it suuuuuucks)1 -
idk✭✭✭✭✭
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Not sure if sarcasm or not, but in case this isn't. That's also the business model which won SWTOR worst MMO business model last year.Giles.floydub17_ESO wrote: »I have to agree with OP. Personally, I think Zos should have gone the way of reducing XP for non subs by 3/4s, blocking them from raiding and PvP and preventing them from wearing epic or legendary armor and reducing the number of the original character slots to 2 (does not include additional slots purchased for crowns.
That would go a long way to incentivize subscribing instead of giving subs more inventory space since that extra inventory space becomes a headache to manage during periods the player is not subscribed.
Further, Zos could sell via the crown store means to unlock trials or PvP for a week on one character and make extra revenue.
It's completely scummy to not be a sub there, it's not about benefits and bonus for sub but heavy penalties on non-sub.
And I was specifically looking at SWTOR when I made the post. Was basically provided the other options Zos has instead of providing the current ESO+ bonuses.
Basically, I was pointing out to OP how good he has it in this game.1 -
Kodrac✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Like I said in another thread somewhere around here: Freeloaders have had it pretty good for a long time. Now that's changing and the tears are starting to flow.5 -
ADarklore✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭WalksonGraves wrote: »So the only real benefit of subscription is storage space, crowns become meaninglessness since the new dlcs don't take them and I doubt most people want all the trash cosmetics available. All the crown consumables you pack in to crown crates are worthless, I hope no poor sap actually spent money on crown food equivalent of a cheap ingame craftable.
I'd say the money goes to servers but 3 years of lag and crashes from a company that made more money than the gdp of a small country indicate otherwise.
So ZOS tactics for retaining subs: be stingy with space, annoy your playerbase with micromanaging, constantly give them garbage event disposable items to fill their inventory, maps to find garbage, etc.
To top it all off, housing adds no storage and extra furniture ends up in the bank.
If you're going to suck people's wallets dry at least offer something better not just making the game purposely unpleasant for non subs.
The bolded point you are VERY wrong. ONLY the 'chapters' will require additional purchase, all other DLCs will be included in the Crown Store and included with ESO+.
Furthermore, ZOS wants to encourage more players to subscribe, so they're going to go after the most complained about features and add them as an ESO+ incentive. I don't have a problem with this. If you're a hoarder and you can't figure out how to manage your inventory as it is, then subscribe... otherwise, don't be a hoarder.CP: 2078 ** ESO+ 2025 Content Pass ** ~~ ***** Strictly a solo PvE quester *****
~~Started Playing: May 2015 | Stopped Playing: July 2025~~5 -
Transairion✭✭✭✭✭Like I said in another thread somewhere around here: Freeloaders have had it pretty good for a long time. Now that's changing and the tears are starting to flow.
B2P games don't have freeloaders, you can't freeload after paying for something.
All I'll say is ESO's method of not being an ass to non-subs is, or was an incredibly attractive part of the game that drew in a lot of people from other MMO's, myself included.
If they're planning on going the F2P game route, then just go F2P: don't make us pay money to be treated like 2nd class citizens. Elitist subs already do that enough because spending $1000 in the Crown Store is only supporting the game if a Subscriber does it. LOL.5 -
WalksonGraves✭✭✭✭✭
✭Like I said in another thread somewhere around here: Freeloaders have had it pretty good for a long time. Now that's changing and the tears are starting to flow.
I paid for this game, used to sub, got the dlcs and I occasionally buy crowns. So go stick "freeloader" back where you pulled it out from.Edited by WalksonGraves on April 6, 2017 3:42PM7 -
Kodrac✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭WalksonGraves wrote: »Like I said in another thread somewhere around here: Freeloaders have had it pretty good for a long time. Now that's changing and the tears are starting to flow.
I paid for this game, used to sub, got the dlcs and I occasionally buy crowns. So go stick "freeloader" back where you pulled it out from.
That six bucks will surely keep the lights on.2 -
kylewwefan✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Shut up. Or I will shut you up. Here take my money. Need some more freaking space.2 -
Uriel_Nocturne✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Transairion wrote: »Like I said in another thread somewhere around here: Freeloaders have had it pretty good for a long time. Now that's changing and the tears are starting to flow.
B2P games don't have freeloaders, you can't freeload after paying for something.
All I'll say is ESO's method of not being an ass to non-subs is, or was an incredibly attractive part of the game that drew in a lot of people from other MMO's, myself included.
If they're planning on going the F2P game route, then just go F2P: don't make us pay money to be treated like 2nd class citizens. Elitist subs already do that enough because spending $1000 in the Crown Store is only supporting the game if a Subscriber does it. LOL.
OH NO!!! Fellow proletarians; run from the evil bourgeoisie subber's!!!! They're ruining all your "we deserve free stuff arguments!!!!WalksonGraves wrote: »Like I said in another thread somewhere around here: Freeloaders have had it pretty good for a long time. Now that's changing and the tears are starting to flow.
I paid for this game, used to sub, got the dlcs and I occasionally buy crowns. So go stick "freeloader" back where you pulled it out from.
lmao
Edited by Uriel_Nocturne on April 6, 2017 3:46PM
twitch.tv/vampire_nox
PAWS (Positively Against Wrip-off Stuff) - Say no to Crown Crates!3 -
WalksonGraves✭✭✭✭✭
✭WalksonGraves wrote: »Like I said in another thread somewhere around here: Freeloaders have had it pretty good for a long time. Now that's changing and the tears are starting to flow.
I paid for this game, used to sub, got the dlcs and I occasionally buy crowns. So go stick "freeloader" back where you pulled it out from.
That six bucks will surely keep the lights on.
Yeah zenimax us desperately trying to find change to keep the lights on. They didn't become billionaires at all.3 -
ADarklore✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭I don't see adding these type of additions to the game as being an [snip] to non-subs, I see it as incentivizing ESO+. A 'one-time' purchase (B2P) is not adding funds over time, a subscription is. And while many non-subs do make purchases from the Crown Store, I am willing to bet that a large portion of non-subs don't make a whole lot of purchases because, in all honesty, they're not as heavily invested in the game as subscribers are. Again, I didn't say ALL non-subs are like this, so don't make it sound like that's what I'm saying.
[Edit for censor bypass]Edited by ZOS_Bill on April 6, 2017 4:53PMCP: 2078 ** ESO+ 2025 Content Pass ** ~~ ***** Strictly a solo PvE quester *****
~~Started Playing: May 2015 | Stopped Playing: July 2025~~3 -
idk✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭WalksonGraves wrote: »Giles.floydub17_ESO wrote: »I have to agree with OP. Personally, I think Zos should have gone the way of reducing XP for non subs by 3/4s, blocking them from raiding and PvP and preventing them from wearing epic or legendary armor and reducing the number of the original character slots to 2 (does not include additional slots purchased for crowns.
That would go a long way to incentivize subscribing instead of giving subs more inventory space since that extra inventory space becomes a headache to manage during periods the player is not subscribed.
Further, Zos could sell via the crown store means to unlock trials or PvP for a week on one character and make extra revenue.
You just described neverwinter, (it suuuuuucks)
Actually, you are wrong again. While Neverwinter does suck, it does not have a subscription option. so what I said does not apply. That was SWTOR which has a somewhat similar business model.
Basically, the choice Zos made is between what you seem to have said sucks and what you are complaining about in your OP. Get over your complaints in your OP since the current model here is so much better and how Zos is managing subscription perks is a fabulous idea.
Personally, I think subscriptions should be required to begin with.Edited by idk on April 6, 2017 3:47PM1 -
WalksonGraves✭✭✭✭✭
✭Uriel_Nocturne wrote: »Transairion wrote: »Like I said in another thread somewhere around here: Freeloaders have had it pretty good for a long time. Now that's changing and the tears are starting to flow.
B2P games don't have freeloaders, you can't freeload after paying for something.
All I'll say is ESO's method of not being an ass to non-subs is, or was an incredibly attractive part of the game that drew in a lot of people from other MMO's, myself included.
If they're planning on going the F2P game route, then just go F2P: don't make us pay money to be treated like 2nd class citizens. Elitist subs already do that enough because spending $1000 in the Crown Store is only supporting the game if a Subscriber does it. LOL.
OH NO!!! Fellow proletarians; run from the evil bourgeoisie subber's!!!! They're ruining all your "we deserve free stuff arguments!!!!WalksonGraves wrote: »Like I said in another thread somewhere around here: Freeloaders have had it pretty good for a long time. Now that's changing and the tears are starting to flow.
I paid for this game, used to sub, got the dlcs and I occasionally buy crowns. So go stick "freeloader" back where you pulled it out from.
lmao
Grow up.
The argument was make eso+ a benefit for subbers instead of a screwjob to people who bought the game.4 -
Uriel_Nocturne✭✭✭✭✭
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Seroiusly?WalksonGraves wrote: »WalksonGraves wrote: »Like I said in another thread somewhere around here: Freeloaders have had it pretty good for a long time. Now that's changing and the tears are starting to flow.
I paid for this game, used to sub, got the dlcs and I occasionally buy crowns. So go stick "freeloader" back where you pulled it out from.
That six bucks will surely keep the lights on.
Yeah zenimax us desperately trying to find change to keep the lights on. They didn't become billionaires at all.
THAT us the rebuttal you're going to use!?
twitch.tv/vampire_nox
PAWS (Positively Against Wrip-off Stuff) - Say no to Crown Crates!2 -
WalksonGraves✭✭✭✭✭
✭Giles.floydub17_ESO wrote: »WalksonGraves wrote: »Giles.floydub17_ESO wrote: »I have to agree with OP. Personally, I think Zos should have gone the way of reducing XP for non subs by 3/4s, blocking them from raiding and PvP and preventing them from wearing epic or legendary armor and reducing the number of the original character slots to 2 (does not include additional slots purchased for crowns.
That would go a long way to incentivize subscribing instead of giving subs more inventory space since that extra inventory space becomes a headache to manage during periods the player is not subscribed.
Further, Zos could sell via the crown store means to unlock trials or PvP for a week on one character and make extra revenue.
You just described neverwinter, (it suuuuuucks)
Actually, you are wrong again. While Neverwinter does suck, it does not have a subscription option. so what I said does not apply. That was SWTOR which has a somewhat similar business model.
Basically, the choice Zos made is between what you seem to have said sucks and what you are complaining about in your OP. Get over your complaints in your OP since the current model here is so much better and how Zos is managing subscription perks is a fabulous idea.
Personally, I think subscriptions should be required to begin with.
I quit neverwinter because every five minutes you hit a paywall.2 -
idk✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭WalksonGraves wrote: »Uriel_Nocturne wrote: »Transairion wrote: »Like I said in another thread somewhere around here: Freeloaders have had it pretty good for a long time. Now that's changing and the tears are starting to flow.
B2P games don't have freeloaders, you can't freeload after paying for something.
All I'll say is ESO's method of not being an ass to non-subs is, or was an incredibly attractive part of the game that drew in a lot of people from other MMO's, myself included.
If they're planning on going the F2P game route, then just go F2P: don't make us pay money to be treated like 2nd class citizens. Elitist subs already do that enough because spending $1000 in the Crown Store is only supporting the game if a Subscriber does it. LOL.
OH NO!!! Fellow proletarians; run from the evil bourgeoisie subber's!!!! They're ruining all your "we deserve free stuff arguments!!!!WalksonGraves wrote: »Like I said in another thread somewhere around here: Freeloaders have had it pretty good for a long time. Now that's changing and the tears are starting to flow.
I paid for this game, used to sub, got the dlcs and I occasionally buy crowns. So go stick "freeloader" back where you pulled it out from.
lmao
Grow up.
The argument was make eso+ a benefit for subbers instead of a screwjob to people who bought the game.
It is a benefit for subbers and is most certainly not a screwjob for those who do not sub. BTW, everyone bought the game.3 -
Argawarga✭✭✭✭It does seem they've found the perfect pain point to monetise.
I just hope they stop soon before we reach SWTOR levels of Free to Play*
*if you don't mind being so limited on everything you're basically only allowed to log in and look at your character.
It's interesting that the the language the two games use to describe subs is very different.
In SWTOR they freely admit that you're being penalized for not subbing. In ESO they describe the absence of penalties as a bonus. Much better marketing strategy IMO. Feels a bit less like brow beating, even if the concept is still the same.
Anyway the only thing that made me drop my sub is the appalling performance in Cyrodiil, and ZOS's apparent inability or disinclination to do anything about it. Most of my alts are just bank space.Edited by Argawarga on April 6, 2017 3:51PM2 -
Tommy_The_Gun✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭It is a problem because additional inventory (aside from what you can unlock with in game bank / inventory upgrade) is only available via subscription. There are people out there who don't have 24 h/ day to play ESO. If you have let's say only 8h play time per week - then like 90% of subscription "time" is wasted.
I am pretty sure that it is only a mater of time for ZOS to make bank / inventory upgrade available for crowns as a one time payment. So if you reach for example maks 240 bank slots - you still be able to buy additional slots for real money.1 -
ADarklore✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Tommy_The_Gun wrote: »It is a problem because additional inventory (aside from what you can unlock with in game bank / inventory upgrade) is only available via subscription. There are people out there who don't have 24 h/ day to play ESO. If you have let's say only 8h play time per week - then like 90% of subscription "time" is wasted.
I am pretty sure that it is only a mater of time for ZOS to make bank / inventory upgrade available for crowns as a one time payment. So if you reach for example maks 240 bank slots - you still be able to buy additional slots for real money.
I'm sorry but $15/mo is nothing to most people, we tend to spend more than that on fast food... so even if you only spend 8/h per week, it is still more entertainment time than you've spent eating that single fast food meal.Edited by ADarklore on April 6, 2017 3:56PMCP: 2078 ** ESO+ 2025 Content Pass ** ~~ ***** Strictly a solo PvE quester *****
~~Started Playing: May 2015 | Stopped Playing: July 2025~~1 -
paulsimonps✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭There are only so many things that ZOS can do to give Subscribers a benefit without giving them an advantage over others. Bank space and Crafting bags are a quality of life reward, it does not make subscribers OP in anyway. Maybe in the Trading market but really if you know how to trade then you know how to manage items.
Subscribers get:- Monthly crowns(or for however long your sub period is)
- 10% extra EXP (Quality of life when as soon as you reach CP cap its useless outside of alts)
- 10% extra Inspiration (good for leveling alts crafting but loses benefit fast)
- 10% lower research time (great for new people or for alts but the game is 3years old any crafter worth a damn is done with it already, again quality of life, not game changer)
- 10% extra gold from mobs and quests. (This is really low and the extra gold is hardly noticeable with all the new gold sinks we got money is being funneled away from the players faster now and this does not contribute to any sort of inflation anymore)
- Free access to DLC's while subbed (There will still be 3 DLC's a year, yes it does not include Chapters/expansions but we will still see plenty of DLC's)
- Crafting bag (quality of life, can be managed well without one if you know what you are doing. We used to before we had them and non subs can still right now.)
- Double Bank space (Now a game breaker in anyway and for many that want, again QUALITY OF LIFE, benefits this is a great reward for subbing.)
- Ability to dye costumes and hats. (Cool but not a killer for non subs.)
I don't see a lot of other things they could give us to be honest without making it too OP compared to non subs, I think its really well as it stands. And sure I love me some more benefits for a sub, have subbed since day one and with no intention of ever dropping it, but I don't want to see it hard others that don't.
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WalksonGraves✭✭✭✭✭
✭Tommy_The_Gun wrote: »It is a problem because additional inventory (aside from what you can unlock with in game bank / inventory upgrade) is only available via subscription. There are people out there who don't have 24 h/ day to play ESO. If you have let's say only 8h play time per week - then like 90% of subscription "time" is wasted.
I am pretty sure that it is only a mater of time for ZOS to make bank / inventory upgrade available for crowns as a one time payment. So if you reach for example maks 240 bank slots - you still be able to buy additional slots for real money.
I'm sorry but $15/mo is nothing to most people, we tend to spend more than that on fast food... so even if you only spend 8/h per week, it is still more entertainment time than you've spent eating that single fast food meal.
If you bought the game at launch with a sub you've almost paid a grand by now.0 -
ADarklore✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭WalksonGraves wrote: »Tommy_The_Gun wrote: »It is a problem because additional inventory (aside from what you can unlock with in game bank / inventory upgrade) is only available via subscription. There are people out there who don't have 24 h/ day to play ESO. If you have let's say only 8h play time per week - then like 90% of subscription "time" is wasted.
I am pretty sure that it is only a mater of time for ZOS to make bank / inventory upgrade available for crowns as a one time payment. So if you reach for example maks 240 bank slots - you still be able to buy additional slots for real money.
I'm sorry but $15/mo is nothing to most people, we tend to spend more than that on fast food... so even if you only spend 8/h per week, it is still more entertainment time than you've spent eating that single fast food meal.
If you bought the game at launch with a sub you've almost paid a grand by now.
And that's a bad thing to help the company continue being successful and providing you with days, weeks, months of entertainment? How much have people spent in three years for fast food, movies, partying?!? Those still pale in comparison to how much most people get from ESO.CP: 2078 ** ESO+ 2025 Content Pass ** ~~ ***** Strictly a solo PvE quester *****
~~Started Playing: May 2015 | Stopped Playing: July 2025~~3 -
idk✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭WalksonGraves wrote: »Tommy_The_Gun wrote: »It is a problem because additional inventory (aside from what you can unlock with in game bank / inventory upgrade) is only available via subscription. There are people out there who don't have 24 h/ day to play ESO. If you have let's say only 8h play time per week - then like 90% of subscription "time" is wasted.
I am pretty sure that it is only a mater of time for ZOS to make bank / inventory upgrade available for crowns as a one time payment. So if you reach for example maks 240 bank slots - you still be able to buy additional slots for real money.
I'm sorry but $15/mo is nothing to most people, we tend to spend more than that on fast food... so even if you only spend 8/h per week, it is still more entertainment time than you've spent eating that single fast food meal.
If you bought the game at launch with a sub you've almost paid a grand by now.
And you seem to think 100$ game + dlc + crown purchases is 6$.[/quote]
I see the Gold Edition, which is the base game plus the first 4 DLCs for less than $23 USD. Not $100. Further, DLCs and the expansion is not relevant to your OP.
Besides the point that your OP is very inaccurate since DLCs can still be purchased with crowns and that is not changing. The expansion is all that cannot be purchased with crowns.
Thank you and have a good day.2
This discussion has been closed.