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Sharpened Vs Nirnhoned
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Izaki✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Bobby_V_Rockit wrote: »Fair enough, but actually random chance is accounted for in scientific research by keeping its likelihood equal across all samples. I think we know that naked, sharp vs. nirn, sharp is better, but I wanted to see if it stays true with the NMG bonus. I'll run more trials tomorrow, again, I'm just curious and wanted something interesting to do.
In this case you need to spam Rapid Strikes for 3milion health with each setup at least 50 times. You can't compare your test to scientific experiments
Also Asayre's calculations for Sharpened were done with 10k penetration in mind (concerntration + major breach + base). So unless NMG pushes you over 18k the results will be the same.@ Izaki #PCEU
#FrenchKiss #GoneFor2YearsAndMyGuildDoesn'tRaidAnymore
#MoreDPSthanYou
#Stamblade0 -
Bobby_V_Rockit✭✭✭✭✭
✭Hehehe, ah well. See how we go then. There's more to this though, there are lots of variables to account for, cp distribution, set style/type/trait, combat style, animation cancelling or not, etc. Not sure why everyone lost there minds, but fair enough. From the 3 dungeons I ran tonight it does look that nirnhoned does less damage than sharpened (no *** right?), but where's the fun in just accepting what a youtuber says as gospel without seeing for yourself? It is a game afterall0 -
sunshineflame✭✭✭Run what you want. These % differences in specific situations are great if you are in the top % of DPS, in which case your setup already speaks for itself. Eventually people are going to have to take their skill into account and stop making excuses based on their gear. Sharpend vs Nirn isn't an argument if you can't play the game, and if you have BiS gear it doesn't make you a good player.1
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bg22✭✭✭✭✭
✭SublimeSparo wrote: »So, it turns out sharpened is NOT ALWAYS better. I conducted the following test to see which DW combination performs best for overland mobs. Performed on normal mobs, and Bull Netch's outside of Mournhold.
Here are the results from best to worst:
1. Sharpened main-hand, Nirnhoned off-hand: 5231 per jab strike
2. Nirnhoned main-hand, Sharpened off-hand: 5100 per jab strike
3. Sharpened main-hand, Sharpened off-hand: 5023 per jab strike
4. Nirnhoned main-hand, Nirnhoned off-hand: 5013 per jab strike
At this point I'd just say use whatever you want. You seem bound and determined to find a testing method, regardless of how impractical it is, that you can use to justify not using Sharpened. Save yourself the trouble and just use whatever. It's not likely to stop you from being able to clear content.
Hitting things is impractical?
What testing method should I use? I've tried all the emotes and they don't seem to provide any feedback about my weapons...
How are you conducting your tests, to test them fairly you'd need to remove all other gear, jewellery, cp, food, skills on your bar, passives etc
Testing against a dummy would be more optimal than overland 'mobs' as different mobs may have different resists. (Ignoring the fact that you can literally punch overland mobs to death therefore rendering weapons useless let alone traits)
No, this is the point, I don't care what certain traits do while my character is naked, I care about performance with gear on. I'm testing to see if under certain circumstances i.e. Gear setups, player spec, etc. (real game world application), does one trait outperform another.
The numbers I provided were not averages, they were absolutes, and repeatable 100% of each engagement I had during testing.
I will test on a volunteer, and a robust target dummy later tonight if I get a chance to play.0 -
kylewwefan✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭So, it seems sharp is kind of the best. Big shocker. But it's not like nirnhoned is way far behind. Maybe a couple nirnhoned maces or real nice nirnhoned maul to club the few light armor wearing shield stackers left in Cyrodil.0 -
Izaki✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭SublimeSparo wrote: »So, it turns out sharpened is NOT ALWAYS better. I conducted the following test to see which DW combination performs best for overland mobs. Performed on normal mobs, and Bull Netch's outside of Mournhold.
Here are the results from best to worst:
1. Sharpened main-hand, Nirnhoned off-hand: 5231 per jab strike
2. Nirnhoned main-hand, Sharpened off-hand: 5100 per jab strike
3. Sharpened main-hand, Sharpened off-hand: 5023 per jab strike
4. Nirnhoned main-hand, Nirnhoned off-hand: 5013 per jab strike
At this point I'd just say use whatever you want. You seem bound and determined to find a testing method, regardless of how impractical it is, that you can use to justify not using Sharpened. Save yourself the trouble and just use whatever. It's not likely to stop you from being able to clear content.
Hitting things is impractical?
What testing method should I use? I've tried all the emotes and they don't seem to provide any feedback about my weapons...
How are you conducting your tests, to test them fairly you'd need to remove all other gear, jewellery, cp, food, skills on your bar, passives etc
Testing against a dummy would be more optimal than overland 'mobs' as different mobs may have different resists. (Ignoring the fact that you can literally punch overland mobs to death therefore rendering weapons useless let alone traits)
No, this is the point, I don't care what certain traits do while my character is naked, I care about performance with gear on. I'm testing to see if under certain circumstances i.e. Gear setups, player spec, etc. (real game world application), does one trait outperform another.
The numbers I provided were not averages, they were absolutes, and repeatable 100% of each engagement I had during testing.
I will test on a volunteer, and a robust target dummy later tonight if I get a chance to play.
Okay I've got no idea how you managed to get higher numbers with a Nirnhoned weapon on the offhand compared to a Nirnhoned mainhand. It just doesn't happen. So that's one finnicky thing about your numbers. The offhand weapon only contributes 6% of its weapon damage to your total weapon damage, which means that you're barely gaining anything from your nirnhoned weapon. If you're so set on proving everyone wrong, at least get that part right.
Then, how many points do you have into CP penetration. keep in mind that with Spriggan's and your CP you're most likely overpenetrating the mob. Overland mobs only have 9k resistance.@ Izaki #PCEU
#FrenchKiss #GoneFor2YearsAndMyGuildDoesn'tRaidAnymore
#MoreDPSthanYou
#Stamblade0 -
bg22✭✭✭✭✭
✭IzakiBrotherSs wrote: »SublimeSparo wrote: »So, it turns out sharpened is NOT ALWAYS better. I conducted the following test to see which DW combination performs best for overland mobs. Performed on normal mobs, and Bull Netch's outside of Mournhold.
Here are the results from best to worst:
1. Sharpened main-hand, Nirnhoned off-hand: 5231 per jab strike
2. Nirnhoned main-hand, Sharpened off-hand: 5100 per jab strike
3. Sharpened main-hand, Sharpened off-hand: 5023 per jab strike
4. Nirnhoned main-hand, Nirnhoned off-hand: 5013 per jab strike
At this point I'd just say use whatever you want. You seem bound and determined to find a testing method, regardless of how impractical it is, that you can use to justify not using Sharpened. Save yourself the trouble and just use whatever. It's not likely to stop you from being able to clear content.
Hitting things is impractical?
What testing method should I use? I've tried all the emotes and they don't seem to provide any feedback about my weapons...
How are you conducting your tests, to test them fairly you'd need to remove all other gear, jewellery, cp, food, skills on your bar, passives etc
Testing against a dummy would be more optimal than overland 'mobs' as different mobs may have different resists. (Ignoring the fact that you can literally punch overland mobs to death therefore rendering weapons useless let alone traits)
No, this is the point, I don't care what certain traits do while my character is naked, I care about performance with gear on. I'm testing to see if under certain circumstances i.e. Gear setups, player spec, etc. (real game world application), does one trait outperform another.
The numbers I provided were not averages, they were absolutes, and repeatable 100% of each engagement I had during testing.
I will test on a volunteer, and a robust target dummy later tonight if I get a chance to play.
Okay I've got no idea how you managed to get higher numbers with a Nirnhoned weapon on the offhand compared to a Nirnhoned mainhand. It just doesn't happen. So that's one finnicky thing about your numbers. The offhand weapon only contributes 6% of its weapon damage to your total weapon damage, which means that you're barely gaining anything from your nirnhoned weapon. If you're so set on proving everyone wrong, at least get that part right.
Then, how many points do you have into CP penetration. keep in mind that with Spriggan's and your CP you're most likely overpenetrating the mob. Overland mobs only have 9k resistance.
Again, my numbers are exact, and 100% repeatable, they're not averages. To be honest, I thought better results would've been achieved if Nirnhoned was the main-hand as well. But... it wasn't. Those were actual results, so it doesn't matter what you or I think they should be... it's what they were.
And you're making my point, which is if penetration is achieved via other means, i.e. Gear and CP, then are there better options? This is applicable testing, not a comparison of just the weapons and a naked character... if you tested just a bullet and a golf club, the golf club would be more deadly... but when the bullets loaded into a gun, everything changes bc math then favors the bullet.
I will also be testing precise eventually, once I have enough to gold 2 more daggers...
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MaselClass RepresentativeIzakiBrotherSs wrote: »SublimeSparo wrote: »So, it turns out sharpened is NOT ALWAYS better. I conducted the following test to see which DW combination performs best for overland mobs. Performed on normal mobs, and Bull Netch's outside of Mournhold.
Here are the results from best to worst:
1. Sharpened main-hand, Nirnhoned off-hand: 5231 per jab strike
2. Nirnhoned main-hand, Sharpened off-hand: 5100 per jab strike
3. Sharpened main-hand, Sharpened off-hand: 5023 per jab strike
4. Nirnhoned main-hand, Nirnhoned off-hand: 5013 per jab strike
At this point I'd just say use whatever you want. You seem bound and determined to find a testing method, regardless of how impractical it is, that you can use to justify not using Sharpened. Save yourself the trouble and just use whatever. It's not likely to stop you from being able to clear content.
Hitting things is impractical?
What testing method should I use? I've tried all the emotes and they don't seem to provide any feedback about my weapons...
How are you conducting your tests, to test them fairly you'd need to remove all other gear, jewellery, cp, food, skills on your bar, passives etc
Testing against a dummy would be more optimal than overland 'mobs' as different mobs may have different resists. (Ignoring the fact that you can literally punch overland mobs to death therefore rendering weapons useless let alone traits)
No, this is the point, I don't care what certain traits do while my character is naked, I care about performance with gear on. I'm testing to see if under certain circumstances i.e. Gear setups, player spec, etc. (real game world application), does one trait outperform another.
The numbers I provided were not averages, they were absolutes, and repeatable 100% of each engagement I had during testing.
I will test on a volunteer, and a robust target dummy later tonight if I get a chance to play.
Okay I've got no idea how you managed to get higher numbers with a Nirnhoned weapon on the offhand compared to a Nirnhoned mainhand. It just doesn't happen. So that's one finnicky thing about your numbers. The offhand weapon only contributes 6% of its weapon damage to your total weapon damage, which means that you're barely gaining anything from your nirnhoned weapon. If you're so set on proving everyone wrong, at least get that part right.
Then, how many points do you have into CP penetration. keep in mind that with Spriggan's and your CP you're most likely overpenetrating the mob. Overland mobs only have 9k resistance.
Again, my numbers are exact, and 100% repeatable, they're not averages. To be honest, I thought better results would've been achieved if Nirnhoned was the main-hand as well. But... it wasn't. Those were actual results, so it doesn't matter what you or I think they should be... it's what they were.
And you're making my point, which is if penetration is achieved via other means, i.e. Gear and CP, then are there better options? This is applicable testing, not a comparison of just the weapons and a naked character... if you tested just a bullet and a golf club, the golf club would be more deadly... but when the bullets loaded into a gun, everything changes bc math then favors the bullet.
I will also be testing precise eventually, once I have enough to gold 2 more daggers...
If you test precise, try 5 Twice-Born Star, 5 Twice-Fanged Serpent and precise Dual Wield Daggers on a stamblade or stamplar khajiit. With thief and shadow mundus. 100% crit damage multiplier without horn and ~85-90% crit with 3600 weapon damage and 35k stamina. With the 100% crit damage coefficient, you'll get 7% damage increase which isn't too far away from sharpened.PC EU
All Trial Trifecta Titles Done!
Youtube:
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UChVEG6ckuAgGs5OyA6VeisA0 -
kadar✭✭✭✭✭
✭I just can't deal with what is in this thread... I'll just leave this here. Also just a tip for the people doing *tests* it's more efficient if you guys actually post screencaps and such and not just numbers. Chances are most of the time the numbers are not correct.TL;DR – For PvE DPS: Sharpened > Precise > Nirnhoned
Precise can be better for organised groups running most armour debuffs in the game
When evaluating between these three item traits it is imperative to recall the average damage formula
where
The skill coefficient, a, depends on the skill in question and an excellent list of skill coefficients can be found at http://esoitem.uesp.net/viewSkills.php. b is around 10.5 for most abilities. Attacker Bonus refers to certain Champion Points like Elemental Expert, Mighty or Thaumathurge and includes certain skills and passives such as Major or Minor Berserk. For simplicity, we can just set this to one and ignore it for the large part.
Armour debuffs include Major/Minor Breach, 5 piece bonus of Roar of Alkosh and the Crushing Enchantment. An example of percentage penetration is Penetrating Magic (Destruction Staff). Flat Penetration includes the base penetration of 100, Concentration and Spell Erosion/Piercing.
In order to compare the three traits, we can convert both the additional flat penetration offered by Sharpened and the extra critical chance into Spell/Weapon Damage. Finally we can convert the Spell/Weapon damage equivalence to an increase in an arbitrary ability tooltip.
I’ll use a generic magicka build as an example, I’ll assume a Magicka pool of 40k and Spell Damage of 3k which is reasonably typical for endgame builds. Only legendary trait values are considered.
Nirnhoned
It increases the tooltip value of a weapon by 11% which in turn increases Spell/Weapon damage by 11% before any buffs. For a staff, this corresponds to a base increase in spell damage of 146 Spell Damage and for dual wielding swords it corresponds to 175 Spell Damage. Typically this base spell damage is buffed by 25% by Major and Minor Sorcery. So you would expect 183 Spell Damage for a staff and 219 Spell Damage for dual wielding swords. Thus if we’re dual wielding swords, Nirnhoned leads to an increase ability tooltip of roughly 3.2%.
Precise
The 7% increased weapon and spell critical can be converted to an equivalent spell damage with the following equation
A reasonably common spell critical for endgame builds is around 60% and a critical modifier between 0.6-0.7 is typical for most magicka builds. This assumes around 30 points in Elfborn which is a fairly common recommendation from my Champion Point optimisation spreadsheet (https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1Zp9v1Vp4Z7X6zfDfcxTwyAnejv-tEC5LujbXYBiVMDk/edit?usp=sharing) thus the spell damage equivalence for Precise is about
This translates to an increase in average ability tooltip by 3.5%. Note that we can reach this answer quicker by noting that
Sharpened
In a similar fashion to the previous section, the increased physical and spell penetration of Sharpened can be converted to an equivalent spell damage or more directly into an increase in ability tooltip
where Mitigation has been separated into a Sharpened component and everything else. The key concern here is that the Resistance of a target cannot go below zero. Let us consider a typical 4 person dungeon, bosses have around 18k resistance and trash have anywhere from 10 to 18k resistance (http://tamrielfoundry.com/topic/2-1-boss-resistance/). The main source of armour debuff is Major Breach (5280) and Flat Penetration for Magicka Characters is at least 4984 (100 base + 4884 Concentration). Flat Penetration is typically higher by around 1-2k depending on the number of points assigned into Spell Erosion. This means the average boss will have about 6.5k resistance and 100% of the Sharpened bonus is used meaning that it increase ability tooltip by
Unfortunately, Sharpened is useless on any mob with less than about 12k resistance as its resistance is already reduced to zero from other sources. So at first glance, the optimal trait seems to be Sharpened for bosses and Precise for trash, similar to the meta on Live.
But there may be another way around this, given that we are reaching unmitigated damage it is reasonable to remove all points from Spell Erosion and apply it all into Elfborn instead. Then a more interesting question would be how much resistance does Sharpened need to remove for it to be equivalent to Precise. Precise provides 3.5% increase in ability tooltip, this value can be achieved if Sharpened removes at least 1750 resistance. My optimal champion point spreadsheet tends to suggest around 30 points in Elfborn which corresponds to this value. Thus it is possible to simply use Sharpened for most trash and all bosses and put 66 points in Elfborn (67 points in Elfborn works the same as 66 points so spent the last point in something else like Staff Expert. In this way Sharpened is acting at worst equivalent to Precise but you get additional points in Elfborn thus increasing your average damage or it significantly outperforms Precise on bosses.
Although I've only discussed magicka builds primarily, this conclusion of using Sharpened in most situations holds true for stamina builds as well. Stamina builds do not have a Flat Penetration skill but this is compensated by several armour debuff methods.
I posted the link to this thread like 4 pages ago...doubt a single person read it. :'(0 -
dday3six✭✭✭✭✭
✭So, it turns out sharpened is NOT ALWAYS better. I conducted the following test to see which DW combination performs best for overland mobs. Performed on normal mobs, and Bull Netch's outside of Mournhold.
Here are the results from best to worst:
1. Sharpened main-hand, Nirnhoned off-hand: 5231 per jab strike
2. Nirnhoned main-hand, Sharpened off-hand: 5100 per jab strike
3. Sharpened main-hand, Sharpened off-hand: 5023 per jab strike
4. Nirnhoned main-hand, Nirnhoned off-hand: 5013 per jab strike
At this point I'd just say use whatever you want. You seem bound and determined to find a testing method, regardless of how impractical it is, that you can use to justify not using Sharpened. Save yourself the trouble and just use whatever. It's not likely to stop you from being able to clear content.
Hitting things is impractical?
What testing method should I use? I've tried all the emotes and they don't seem to provide any feedback about my weapons...
Overland mobs have less resistance than dungeon/trial mobs or bosses as well as less than the average player.
0 -
whiteshadow711jppreub18_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭So, it turns out sharpened is NOT ALWAYS better. I conducted the following test to see which DW combination performs best for overland mobs. Performed on normal mobs, and Bull Netch's outside of Mournhold.
Here are the results from best to worst:
1. Sharpened main-hand, Nirnhoned off-hand: 5231 per jab strike
2. Nirnhoned main-hand, Sharpened off-hand: 5100 per jab strike
3. Sharpened main-hand, Sharpened off-hand: 5023 per jab strike
4. Nirnhoned main-hand, Nirnhoned off-hand: 5013 per jab strike
At this point I'd just say use whatever you want. You seem bound and determined to find a testing method, regardless of how impractical it is, that you can use to justify not using Sharpened. Save yourself the trouble and just use whatever. It's not likely to stop you from being able to clear content.
Hitting things is impractical?
What testing method should I use? I've tried all the emotes and they don't seem to provide any feedback about my weapons...
Overland mobs have less resistance than dungeon/trial mobs or bosses as well as less than the average player.
I have a quick question... what about the npc guard mobs in Cyrodiil (Keep guards, resource guards)...
what are their resistance #'s?? just curious.....
Edited by whiteshadow711jppreub18_ESO on March 31, 2017 5:06PMSigned, Kotaro Atani.PS5 NAVR16/ CP 160 Khajiit Nightblade of the Aldmeri Dominion, Guildmaster and Assassin of the Queen's Hand guild on NA PC. PvP Officer in the WOLF guild on NA PS5, and of course Master Thief. Currently 3600 CP out of 3600 CP on NA PS5. Currently 810 CP on NA PC (used for PTS testing purposes only). On PS5 I am also a Master Crafter, all traits done and learned, Jewelry crafting done. all Motifs learned on PS5 except for maybe two-three Motifs. All Companions are Max level as are their Skills.Warrior, Lover, Thief.... Nightblade. Aldmeri Dominion For Life! For the Queen!! Go Dominion or go home ! "I have no hatred for the races of Man, but they are young. Like all children, they are driven by emotion. They lack the wisdom that comes with age. I would sooner place an Altmer infant on the Ruby Throne than surrender Tamriel to their capricious whims. The Altmer, the Bosmer and the Khajiit share the common traits of intelligence, patience and reason. We do not seek riches or plunder. Domination is not our goal, nor is the acclamation of power for its own sake. Today we make our stand. Today we take back the Ruby Throne, which is ours by ancient right and the blessings of the Divines. Stand with us." ―Your Queen Commands, Ayrenn Arana Aldmeri.(All 18 characters are AD only! This one is a AD Loyalist)Member of ESO Since January 29, 2014, started early Access 3/30/14 on PC, currently subbed on NA PS5 and on NA PC. Note- I only use PC for PTS testing purposes, the PS5 is my dedicated Game Platform.Note- for those that don't know how to say Kotaro Atani it's "Ko tar row Ah ta ni" (Ko with a Oh sound, tar which sounds like the sticky black tar stuff, row like rowing a boat, Ah with a AHHHH sound, Ta with a Tahhh sound, Neeee which sounds like knee)"The blowing sands of time wipe clean the footprints of the past...""Moonsugar may be the key to paradise, but it is through a false door...""A perfect society is always elsewhere..."- Unknown book of Khajiiti proverbs.1 -
Izaki✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭IzakiBrotherSs wrote: »SublimeSparo wrote: »So, it turns out sharpened is NOT ALWAYS better. I conducted the following test to see which DW combination performs best for overland mobs. Performed on normal mobs, and Bull Netch's outside of Mournhold.
Here are the results from best to worst:
1. Sharpened main-hand, Nirnhoned off-hand: 5231 per jab strike
2. Nirnhoned main-hand, Sharpened off-hand: 5100 per jab strike
3. Sharpened main-hand, Sharpened off-hand: 5023 per jab strike
4. Nirnhoned main-hand, Nirnhoned off-hand: 5013 per jab strike
At this point I'd just say use whatever you want. You seem bound and determined to find a testing method, regardless of how impractical it is, that you can use to justify not using Sharpened. Save yourself the trouble and just use whatever. It's not likely to stop you from being able to clear content.
Hitting things is impractical?
What testing method should I use? I've tried all the emotes and they don't seem to provide any feedback about my weapons...
How are you conducting your tests, to test them fairly you'd need to remove all other gear, jewellery, cp, food, skills on your bar, passives etc
Testing against a dummy would be more optimal than overland 'mobs' as different mobs may have different resists. (Ignoring the fact that you can literally punch overland mobs to death therefore rendering weapons useless let alone traits)
No, this is the point, I don't care what certain traits do while my character is naked, I care about performance with gear on. I'm testing to see if under certain circumstances i.e. Gear setups, player spec, etc. (real game world application), does one trait outperform another.
The numbers I provided were not averages, they were absolutes, and repeatable 100% of each engagement I had during testing.
I will test on a volunteer, and a robust target dummy later tonight if I get a chance to play.
Okay I've got no idea how you managed to get higher numbers with a Nirnhoned weapon on the offhand compared to a Nirnhoned mainhand. It just doesn't happen. So that's one finnicky thing about your numbers. The offhand weapon only contributes 6% of its weapon damage to your total weapon damage, which means that you're barely gaining anything from your nirnhoned weapon. If you're so set on proving everyone wrong, at least get that part right.
Then, how many points do you have into CP penetration. keep in mind that with Spriggan's and your CP you're most likely overpenetrating the mob. Overland mobs only have 9k resistance.
Again, my numbers are exact, and 100% repeatable, they're not averages. To be honest, I thought better results would've been achieved if Nirnhoned was the main-hand as well. But... it wasn't. Those were actual results, so it doesn't matter what you or I think they should be... it's what they were.
And you're making my point, which is if penetration is achieved via other means, i.e. Gear and CP, then are there better options? This is applicable testing, not a comparison of just the weapons and a naked character... if you tested just a bullet and a golf club, the golf club would be more deadly... but when the bullets loaded into a gun, everything changes bc math then favors the bullet.
I will also be testing precise eventually, once I have enough to gold 2 more daggers...
Full light armor gives you about 10k resistances. This is more than a normal overland mob.
As a stamina templar, you have base 100, Spriggan 4k and Minor Fracture 1320. That's it. 5420 penetration. Its nothing. You won't even be hitting full power against a light armor build with a shield down. Add in sharpened and you get 10.5k.
Getting penetration from CP is a pretty bad idea as that CP star scales pretty terribly compared to others, thus its better to get your penetration from your gear and then max out the damage through CP. I toss about 20 points into penetration for PvP just cause why not.
@ Izaki #PCEU
#FrenchKiss #GoneFor2YearsAndMyGuildDoesn'tRaidAnymore
#MoreDPSthanYou
#Stamblade0 -
bg22✭✭✭✭✭
✭IzakiBrotherSs wrote: »IzakiBrotherSs wrote: »SublimeSparo wrote: »So, it turns out sharpened is NOT ALWAYS better. I conducted the following test to see which DW combination performs best for overland mobs. Performed on normal mobs, and Bull Netch's outside of Mournhold.
Here are the results from best to worst:
1. Sharpened main-hand, Nirnhoned off-hand: 5231 per jab strike
2. Nirnhoned main-hand, Sharpened off-hand: 5100 per jab strike
3. Sharpened main-hand, Sharpened off-hand: 5023 per jab strike
4. Nirnhoned main-hand, Nirnhoned off-hand: 5013 per jab strike
At this point I'd just say use whatever you want. You seem bound and determined to find a testing method, regardless of how impractical it is, that you can use to justify not using Sharpened. Save yourself the trouble and just use whatever. It's not likely to stop you from being able to clear content.
Hitting things is impractical?
What testing method should I use? I've tried all the emotes and they don't seem to provide any feedback about my weapons...
How are you conducting your tests, to test them fairly you'd need to remove all other gear, jewellery, cp, food, skills on your bar, passives etc
Testing against a dummy would be more optimal than overland 'mobs' as different mobs may have different resists. (Ignoring the fact that you can literally punch overland mobs to death therefore rendering weapons useless let alone traits)
No, this is the point, I don't care what certain traits do while my character is naked, I care about performance with gear on. I'm testing to see if under certain circumstances i.e. Gear setups, player spec, etc. (real game world application), does one trait outperform another.
The numbers I provided were not averages, they were absolutes, and repeatable 100% of each engagement I had during testing.
I will test on a volunteer, and a robust target dummy later tonight if I get a chance to play.
Okay I've got no idea how you managed to get higher numbers with a Nirnhoned weapon on the offhand compared to a Nirnhoned mainhand. It just doesn't happen. So that's one finnicky thing about your numbers. The offhand weapon only contributes 6% of its weapon damage to your total weapon damage, which means that you're barely gaining anything from your nirnhoned weapon. If you're so set on proving everyone wrong, at least get that part right.
Then, how many points do you have into CP penetration. keep in mind that with Spriggan's and your CP you're most likely overpenetrating the mob. Overland mobs only have 9k resistance.
Again, my numbers are exact, and 100% repeatable, they're not averages. To be honest, I thought better results would've been achieved if Nirnhoned was the main-hand as well. But... it wasn't. Those were actual results, so it doesn't matter what you or I think they should be... it's what they were.
And you're making my point, which is if penetration is achieved via other means, i.e. Gear and CP, then are there better options? This is applicable testing, not a comparison of just the weapons and a naked character... if you tested just a bullet and a golf club, the golf club would be more deadly... but when the bullets loaded into a gun, everything changes bc math then favors the bullet.
I will also be testing precise eventually, once I have enough to gold 2 more daggers...
Full light armor gives you about 10k resistances. This is more than a normal overland mob.
As a stamina templar, you have base 100, Spriggan 4k and Minor Fracture 1320. That's it. 5420 penetration. Its nothing. You won't even be hitting full power against a light armor build with a shield down. Add in sharpened and you get 10.5k.
Getting penetration from CP is a pretty bad idea as that CP star scales pretty terribly compared to others, thus its better to get your penetration from your gear and then max out the damage through CP. I toss about 20 points into penetration for PvP just cause why not.
Getting there. Going to test each out on people today if I get a chance to play today.
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darthsithis✭✭✭I got 30k with a charged maelstrom backbar. Rotation rotation rotation.
34k with nirn.
Sharpened front bar obvs tho. Sharpened is kinda undoubtedly best for now. I believe sharp > precise > nirn, with sharp being like 10% better, and like 2% diff between nirn and preciseMessage me if you want to do trials/dungeons, or need a trading guild! Flawless conqueror magsorc with a bad sense of armor fashion.0 -
Floki_Vilgerdarson✭✭✭✭The_Outsider wrote: »Does resistance count towards bleeds? I know bleeds are unblockable, but not sure about resistance.
Last night in my drunken wizdom I decided to "play the way you want to play" and golded a 2H sharpened axe. The results were my Biting Jabs hitting like a wet paper bag full of baby ***, compared to my nirnhoned daggers, however if the bleeds ignore resist it may be worth it.
Bleeds are mitigated by resist.
Bleeds do "true damage" under the Twin Blade and Blunt passive. That means it does exactly the amount of physical damage listed under the axe section to the best of my knowledge resistance does not apply to this passive. I will do more research and testing to confirm.
Floki1 -
darthsithis✭✭✭sunshineflame wrote: »Run what you want. These % differences in specific situations are great if you are in the top % of DPS, in which case your setup already speaks for itself. Eventually people are going to have to take their skill into account and stop making excuses based on their gear. Sharpend vs Nirn isn't an argument if you can't play the game, and if you have BiS gear it doesn't make you a good player.
Yup! Flawless on purple gear 2 pieces prosperous and purple staves- one decisive one charged.
I have nirnhoned mael and purple bis gear for trials, but I don't die cuz I roll away from the world shaper and shield throw- therefore more dps then the three ppl with gold everything sharpened right traits who die every single time the twins make you run to the correct side of the room lolMessage me if you want to do trials/dungeons, or need a trading guild! Flawless conqueror magsorc with a bad sense of armor fashion.0 -
Izaki✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭darthsithis wrote: »I got 30k with a charged maelstrom backbar. Rotation rotation rotation.
34k with nirn.
Sharpened front bar obvs tho. Sharpened is kinda undoubtedly best for now. I believe sharp > precise > nirn, with sharp being like 10% better, and like 2% diff between nirn and precise
How'd you get that much of a difference between charged and nirn?
I'm hitting consistently the 38-39k no matter if my back bar staff is powered or nirnhoned (yeah the only 2 traits I got)... @ Izaki #PCEU
#FrenchKiss #GoneFor2YearsAndMyGuildDoesn'tRaidAnymore
#MoreDPSthanYou
#Stamblade0 -
Izaki✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Floki_Vilgerdarson wrote: »The_Outsider wrote: »Does resistance count towards bleeds? I know bleeds are unblockable, but not sure about resistance.
Last night in my drunken wizdom I decided to "play the way you want to play" and golded a 2H sharpened axe. The results were my Biting Jabs hitting like a wet paper bag full of baby ***, compared to my nirnhoned daggers, however if the bleeds ignore resist it may be worth it.
Bleeds are mitigated by resist.
Bleeds do "true damage" under the Twin Blade and Blunt passive. That means it does exactly the amount of physical damage listed under the axe section to the best of my knowledge resistance does not apply to this passive. I will do more research and testing to confirm.
Floki
Yeah that's right, bleeds ignore all mitigation.@ Izaki #PCEU
#FrenchKiss #GoneFor2YearsAndMyGuildDoesn'tRaidAnymore
#MoreDPSthanYou
#Stamblade0 -
bg22✭✭✭✭✭
✭So, after testing and spending ab 1 mil gold on temps lol, my conclusion is Sharp main/ Nirn off is best for overland/delves, and sharp/sharp is best for absolutely everything that matters i.e. PvP/end game PvE.
I would like to add my concern that this thread has confirmed.
1. There is literally 1 option.
2. When anyone dares to test/question the meta ppl lose their minds and that is toxic. You all forget that game changes and ppl attempting to go against the grain is not a bad thing... if it weren't for those types of questions/tests, we'd never figure out the true metas. I'd been abscent from the game for almost 2 years, and always like to test/figure out a better way for real game-world application. The negative feedback and criticism in this thread that I received just for the sake of TRYING to find a better way was ridiculous. Bunch of liberal sheep round here.
On a positive note, thank all of you who actively participated and contributed to this thread! I wish you the best and hope to see you one way or another on the battlefield someday.
I play XB/NA if anyone would like to join me some time. Tag is Tirik 22
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dday3six✭✭✭✭✭
✭So, after testing and spending ab 1 mil gold on temps lol, my conclusion is Sharp main/ Nirn off is best for overland/delves, and sharp/sharp is best for absolutely everything that matters i.e. PvP/end game PvE.
I would like to add my concern that this thread has confirmed.
1. There is literally 1 option.
2. When anyone dares to test/question the meta ppl lose their minds and that is toxic. You all forget that game changes and ppl attempting to go against the grain is not a bad thing... if it weren't for those types of questions/tests, we'd never figure out the true metas. I'd been abscent from the game for almost 2 years, and always like to test/figure out a better way for real game-world application. The negative feedback and criticism in this thread that I received just for the sake of TRYING to find a better way was ridiculous. Bunch of liberal sheep round here.
On a positive note, thank all of you who actively participated and contributed to this thread! I wish you the best and hope to see you one way or another on the battlefield someday.
I play XB/NA if anyone would like to join me some time. Tag is Tirik 22
That's one version of events.
Seemed to me more that you were showed the testing and mathematics to back Sharpened being the best option, while it was explained that nothing in the game has changed to alter the findings and you ignored it.
But hey people are sheep for pointing that out. Oh, and toxic too, cause more buzzwords means more internet points.0 -
Arthg✭✭✭✭✭
✭So, after testing and spending ab 1 mil gold on temps lol, my conclusion is Sharp main/ Nirn off is best for overland/delves, and sharp/sharp is best for absolutely everything that matters i.e. PvP/end game PvE.
I would like to add my concern that this thread has confirmed.
1. There is literally 1 option.
2. When anyone dares to test/question the meta ppl lose their minds and that is toxic. You all forget that game changes and ppl attempting to go against the grain is not a bad thing... if it weren't for those types of questions/tests, we'd never figure out the true metas. I'd been abscent from the game for almost 2 years, and always like to test/figure out a better way for real game-world application. The negative feedback and criticism in this thread that I received just for the sake of TRYING to find a better way was ridiculous. Bunch of liberal sheep round here.
On a positive note, thank all of you who actively participated and contributed to this thread! I wish you the best and hope to see you one way or another on the battlefield someday.
I play XB/NA if anyone would like to join me some time. Tag is Tirik 22
That's one version of events.
Seemed to me more that you were showed the testing and mathematics to back Sharpened being the best option, while it was explained that nothing in the game has changed to alter the findings and you ignored it.
But hey people are sheep for pointing that out. Oh, and toxic too, cause more buzzwords means more internet points.
Come on, mate, questioning the dogma every now and then is healthy.
I for one appreciated the OP's sincerity and will to think for himself (the methods, well, less so
).
Anyway.
I like charged.PC/EU. NoCP PvP. sDK Orc IRL. Flawless tamperor. Pro scrub.0 -
Bobby_V_Rockit✭✭✭✭✭
✭No stress, it seems a bit like the precise/sharpened argument in trials. When enemies are debuffed to have zero resistance then precise is better than sharpened. I was hoping to find a set combination where nirnhoned might do the same (at least on one weapon). Ah well!0
