Sharpened Vs Nirnhoned

Ep1kMalware

IzakiBrotherSs wrote: »

Ep1kMalware wrote: »

IzakiBrotherSs wrote: »

Your crit is extremely low. 80% is more or less the norm on non-khajiit stamina builds.

Clever alchemist is trash. Use hundings instead, even Twice-born star is better. Optimal is Two-Fanged snake.

Too much recovery and too much weapon damage, not enough crit (and probably max stamina). Why is your weapon damage that high?

Sharpened is a 12% increase in damage done, Nirnhoned is about 2.7% and Precise is 3.4%.

Sharp is 8% increase sir. It's 1% for every 650 penetration. 5280/650=8.12

@Ep1kMalware Yeah I thought he was talking about PvE at first so that's why I mentioned 12%. You're right, it is roughly 8% due to the fact that player resistances are different to mob resistances.

Oooh I got you. I didn't consider pvp. Although in some cases charged may be better for pvp. Such as running poison serpent+sheer venom with a charged dsa bow. With a sharp 2h vms maul, of course.

Dagoth_Rac

IzakiBrotherSs wrote: »

Ep1kMalware wrote: »

IzakiBrotherSs wrote: »

Your crit is extremely low. 80% is more or less the norm on non-khajiit stamina builds.

Clever alchemist is trash. Use hundings instead, even Twice-born star is better. Optimal is Two-Fanged snake.

Too much recovery and too much weapon damage, not enough crit (and probably max stamina). Why is your weapon damage that high?

Sharpened is a 12% increase in damage done, Nirnhoned is about 2.7% and Precise is 3.4%.

Sharp is 8% increase sir. It's 1% for every 650 penetration. 5280/650=8.12

@Ep1kMalware Yeah I thought he was talking about PvE at first so that's why I mentioned 12%. You're right, it is roughly 8% due to the fact that player resistances are different to mob resistances.

That is not how damage increase works for Sharpened. 5280 armor/spell resist gives ~10.5% mitigation to PvE mobs and ~8% mitigation to PvP players. But that is not the same thing as 8% or 10.5% more damage done.

For example, some PvE mob has 18000 armor. 18000 / 500 = 36. So this PvE mob mitigates 36% of damage done. You hit the mob with 10000 tooltip damage, it is reduced to 6400 damage. You now reduce their armor by 5280, going from 18000 to 12720. 12720 / 500 = 25.44% mitigation. You hit mob for 10000 tooltip damage, it gets reduced to 7456.

7456 / 6400 = 1.165. So you increased damage by 16.5% by reducing their mitigation by 5280.

But what if that mob had 9000 armor?

9000 / 500 = 18. So this PvE mob mitigates 18% of damage done. You hit the mob with 10000 tooltip damage, it is reduced to 8200 damage. You now reduce their armor by 5280, going from 9000 to 3720. 3720 / 500 = 7.44% mitigation. You hit mob for 10000 tooltip damage, it gets reduced to 9256 damage.

9256 / 8200 = 1.128. So you increased damage by 12.8% by reducing their mitigation by 5280. Not as much of an increase as when fighting the boss with 18000 mitigation.

The DPS increase of Sharpened is dependent on mitigation of enemy being hit. It is more effective against enemies with higher mitigation. In an extreme example, imagine an enemy with 99% mitigation. You hit them with 10000 tooltip damage and it is reduced to 100. Reducing their mitigation from 99% to 88% would mean that 10000 tooltip damage would go from 100 to 1200. A massive increase in DPS, percentage-wise.

So anyone throwing around numbers about Sharpened doing X% more damage is just wrong. It changes based on mitigation of enemy you are fighting. It is never a flat increase. It may be against Trial bosses that always have 18200 armor/spell resist. And maybe in PvP nowadays, where everyone is wearing heavy armor and at mitigation cap of 50%, it may look like a flat increase. But it is not. It depends on how much enemy is mitigating before sharpened takes effect.

Izaki

Ep1kMalware wrote: »

IzakiBrotherSs wrote: »

Ep1kMalware wrote: »

IzakiBrotherSs wrote: »

Your crit is extremely low. 80% is more or less the norm on non-khajiit stamina builds.

Clever alchemist is trash. Use hundings instead, even Twice-born star is better. Optimal is Two-Fanged snake.

Too much recovery and too much weapon damage, not enough crit (and probably max stamina). Why is your weapon damage that high?

Sharpened is a 12% increase in damage done, Nirnhoned is about 2.7% and Precise is 3.4%.

Sharp is 8% increase sir. It's 1% for every 650 penetration. 5280/650=8.12

@Ep1kMalware Yeah I thought he was talking about PvE at first so that's why I mentioned 12%. You're right, it is roughly 8% due to the fact that player resistances are different to mob resistances.

Oooh I got you. I didn't consider pvp. Although in some cases charged may be better for pvp. Such as running poison serpent+sheer venom with a charged dsa bow. With a sharp 2h vms maul, of course.

Yeah mob 1% = 550 and player 1% = 660 afaik. Yeah I mean I run charged on my resto staff in PvP with a Shock glyph so it definitely has its benefits. But that's all back bar staff, front bar is always sharpened !

bg22

So we've come to understand that sharpened weapons outperforme nirnhoned weapons, but... what if you're gaining penetration from other sources? I.e. Spriggans, serpent, and CP? I've come to understand (from a separate thread) that after a certain point, penetration is next to worthless. So, if I'm achieving 9-10k from other sources, how can Nirnhoned then not be preferred?

bg22

Dagoth_Rac wrote: »

IzakiBrotherSs wrote: »

Ep1kMalware wrote: »

IzakiBrotherSs wrote: »

Your crit is extremely low. 80% is more or less the norm on non-khajiit stamina builds.

Clever alchemist is trash. Use hundings instead, even Twice-born star is better. Optimal is Two-Fanged snake.

Too much recovery and too much weapon damage, not enough crit (and probably max stamina). Why is your weapon damage that high?

Sharpened is a 12% increase in damage done, Nirnhoned is about 2.7% and Precise is 3.4%.

Sharp is 8% increase sir. It's 1% for every 650 penetration. 5280/650=8.12

@Ep1kMalware Yeah I thought he was talking about PvE at first so that's why I mentioned 12%. You're right, it is roughly 8% due to the fact that player resistances are different to mob resistances.

That is not how damage increase works for Sharpened. 5280 armor/spell resist gives ~10.5% mitigation to PvE mobs and ~8% mitigation to PvP players. But that is not the same thing as 8% or 10.5% more damage done.

For example, some PvE mob has 18000 armor. 18000 / 500 = 36. So this PvE mob mitigates 36% of damage done. You hit the mob with 10000 tooltip damage, it is reduced to 6400 damage. You now reduce their armor by 5280, going from 18000 to 12720. 12720 / 500 = 25.44% mitigation. You hit mob for 10000 tooltip damage, it gets reduced to 7456.

7456 / 6400 = 1.165. So you increased damage by 16.5% by reducing their mitigation by 5280.

But what if that mob had 9000 armor?

9000 / 500 = 18. So this PvE mob mitigates 18% of damage done. You hit the mob with 10000 tooltip damage, it is reduced to 8200 damage. You now reduce their armor by 5280, going from 9000 to 3720. 3720 / 500 = 7.44% mitigation. You hit mob for 10000 tooltip damage, it gets reduced to 9256 damage.

9256 / 8200 = 1.128. So you increased damage by 12.8% by reducing their mitigation by 5280. Not as much of an increase as when fighting the boss with 18000 mitigation.

The DPS increase of Sharpened is dependent on mitigation of enemy being hit. It is more effective against enemies with higher mitigation. In an extreme example, imagine an enemy with 99% mitigation. You hit them with 10000 tooltip damage and it is reduced to 100. Reducing their mitigation from 99% to 88% would mean that 10000 tooltip damage would go from 100 to 1200. A massive increase in DPS, percentage-wise.

So anyone throwing around numbers about Sharpened doing X% more damage is just wrong. It changes based on mitigation of enemy you are fighting. It is never a flat increase. It may be against Trial bosses that always have 18200 armor/spell resist. And maybe in PvP nowadays, where everyone is wearing heavy armor and at mitigation cap of 50%, it may look like a flat increase. But it is not. It depends on how much enemy is mitigating before sharpened takes effect.

Good stuff.

Thank you.

IcyDeadPeople

bg22 wrote: »

So we've come to understand that sharpened weapons outperforme nirnhoned weapons, but... what if you're gaining penetration from other sources? I.e. Spriggans, serpent, and CP? I've come to understand (from a separate thread) that after a certain point, penetration is next to worthless. So, if I'm achieving 9-10k from other sources, how can Nirnhoned then not be preferred?

Simply depends on the target. If you are hitting a player with 10k armor and you already have 10k penetration, then extra 5k won't help at all. Or if you are hitting a player with shields up.

bg22

IcyDeadPeople wrote: »

bg22 wrote: »

So we've come to understand that sharpened weapons outperforme nirnhoned weapons, but... what if you're gaining penetration from other sources? I.e. Spriggans, serpent, and CP? I've come to understand (from a separate thread) that after a certain point, penetration is next to worthless. So, if I'm achieving 9-10k from other sources, how can Nirnhoned then not be preferred?

Simply depends on the target. If you are hitting a player with 10k armor and you already have 10k penetration, then extra 5k won't help at all. Or if you are hitting a player with shields up.

Exactly...

Glurin

bg22 wrote: »

So we've come to understand that sharpened weapons outperforme nirnhoned weapons, but... what if you're gaining penetration from other sources? I.e. Spriggans, serpent, and CP? I've come to understand (from a separate thread) that after a certain point, penetration is next to worthless. So, if I'm achieving 9-10k from other sources, how can Nirnhoned then not be preferred?

Because the meta sheep have decreed "Sharpened or go home noob!"

That's pretty much how it always works, even if the difference was hovering at less than one percent.

You're not wrong though. Really just depends on what you're hitting. But it's a little impractical to carry around a bag full of the same weapon with different traits so you can customize your load out for each and every encounter. Not to mention I highly doubt the other person is going to whisper you their resist totals before you attack so you can switch weapons.

Ep1kMalware

bg22 wrote: »

So we've come to understand that sharpened weapons outperforme nirnhoned weapons, but... what if you're gaining penetration from other sources? I.e. Spriggans, serpent, and CP? I've come to understand (from a separate thread) that after a certain point, penetration is next to worthless. So, if I'm achieving 9-10k from other sources, how can Nirnhoned then not be preferred?

Because next best thing is crit% and critical dmg modifiers.

Marktoneth3

IzakiBrotherSs wrote: »

Your crit is extremely low. 80% is more or less the norm on non-khajiit stamina builds.

Clever alchemist is trash. Use hundings instead, even Twice-born star is better. Optimal is Two-Fanged snake.

Too much recovery and too much weapon damage, not enough crit (and probably max stamina). Why is your weapon damage that high?

Sharpened is a 12% increase in damage done, Nirnhoned is about 2.7% and Precise is 3.4%.

wow just wow

bg22

Glurin wrote: »

bg22 wrote: »

So we've come to understand that sharpened weapons outperforme nirnhoned weapons, but... what if you're gaining penetration from other sources? I.e. Spriggans, serpent, and CP? I've come to understand (from a separate thread) that after a certain point, penetration is next to worthless. So, if I'm achieving 9-10k from other sources, how can Nirnhoned then not be preferred?

Because the meta sheep have decreed "Sharpened or go home noob!"

That's pretty much how it always works, even if the difference was hovering at less than one percent.

You're not wrong though. Really just depends on what you're hitting. But it's a little impractical to carry around a bag full of the same weapon with different traits so you can customize your load out for each and every encounter. Not to mention I highly doubt the other person is going to whisper you their resist totals before you attack so you can switch weapons.

Lol Yea I get that, but by the time I'm done testing every approach I'll probably be able to... switched to a sharpend 2H last night in my drunken wizdom to compare the difference. That was a huge waste of 100k...

Ep1kMalware wrote: »

bg22 wrote: »

So we've come to understand that sharpened weapons outperforme nirnhoned weapons, but... what if you're gaining penetration from other sources? I.e. Spriggans, serpent, and CP? I've come to understand (from a separate thread) that after a certain point, penetration is next to worthless. So, if I'm achieving 9-10k from other sources, how can Nirnhoned then not be preferred?

Because next best thing is crit% and critical dmg modifiers.

Again, I get that... but with everyone in PvP running impen, does crit modifier make a huge difference over base damage, and would the benefits outweigh the heals? Not to mention bleeds which are of course unblockable?

bg22

Marktoneth3 wrote: »

IzakiBrotherSs wrote: »

Your crit is extremely low. 80% is more or less the norm on non-khajiit stamina builds.

Clever alchemist is trash. Use hundings instead, even Twice-born star is better. Optimal is Two-Fanged snake.

Too much recovery and too much weapon damage, not enough crit (and probably max stamina). Why is your weapon damage that high?

Sharpened is a 12% increase in damage done, Nirnhoned is about 2.7% and Precise is 3.4%.

wow just wow

I'm just glad I'm not the only one who thought that...

GreenhaloX

Nirnhorned is deceiving. It will show more overall weapon damage number in face value, but when I tested on a target versus a sharpened trait, I get more damage numbers popping up on screen with the sharpened. It is just one of those conundrum of ESO that doesn't make sense to me. Why not get more damages/dps with increase weapon damage trait? I guess it all depends on the resistance of the targets. For my stamDK, crit or not, I tested where my weapon damage was about 4.3 (with ninhorned) versus sharpened about 3.7 (with higher stamina) and I'm pulling about 3-4k more numbers with the 3.7. However, with sharpened trait, I pull more numbers with adding Flameless Dawnbreaker and slotting a couple Fighter Skills (these add another 11% extra weapon damages.) So, this is where the non-nirnhorned weapon damage increase counts. Why even have nirnhorned, then, much like training and prosperous traits.. ha ha

Ch4mpTW wrote: »

IronCrystal wrote: »

If this is for PvP, then does your DPS matter? PvP is all about burst damage anyways.

To an extent. Sustain is by far more important (in my opinion). Especially with all types of resource poisons being implemented nowadays, and other shenanigans involving CC. You can have all the burst in the world, but once your resources run dry — it's a wrap. Sure you can pop a potion to try and make things better, but potions alone can only get you so far. And when you're CC'd and have low resources, 9x out of 10 it means defeat. And PvP is pretty much a game of who runs out of options first.

Dueling in PvE (or one on one in normal PvP land) is probably more about who runs out of resources first. Regular PvP is not about who had more burst or dps, it is flat out about who had the bigger zerg on their side. Ha ha

Buffler

No need for all the elaboration

PVE = SHARPENED
PVP = SHARPENED

You think nirnhoned is better, crack on and have fun, dont let the facts spoil it for you.

Rex-Umbra

Nirn is crap

bg22

Buffler wrote: »

No need for all the elaboration

PVE = SHARPENED
PVP = SHARPENED

You think nirnhoned is better, crack on and have fun, dont let the facts spoil it for you.

Just looking into it. If you don't want answers then don't read the thread? I enjoy knowing the "why". Most ppl don't. Most ppl are also average.

Buffler

bg22 wrote: »

Buffler wrote: »

No need for all the elaboration

PVE = SHARPENED
PVP = SHARPENED

You think nirnhoned is better, crack on and have fun, dont let the facts spoil it for you.

Just looking into it. If you don't want answers then don't read the thread? I enjoy knowing the "why". Most ppl don't. Most ppl are also average.

you didnt ask why, you said you always thought sharpened was better until now. After your testing.

Reality is sharpened is better but if you believe your test show otherwise then use NIRN. its yougr game, play how you want.

bg22

Buffler wrote: »

bg22 wrote: »

Buffler wrote: »

No need for all the elaboration

PVE = SHARPENED
PVP = SHARPENED

You think nirnhoned is better, crack on and have fun, dont let the facts spoil it for you.

Just looking into it. If you don't want answers then don't read the thread? I enjoy knowing the "why". Most ppl don't. Most ppl are also average.

you didnt ask why.

bg22 wrote: »

Is the crit making that big of a difference, or is the sustained weapon damage making the difference?

Ep1kMalware

bg22 wrote: »

Glurin wrote: »

bg22 wrote: »

So we've come to understand that sharpened weapons outperforme nirnhoned weapons, but... what if you're gaining penetration from other sources? I.e. Spriggans, serpent, and CP? I've come to understand (from a separate thread) that after a certain point, penetration is next to worthless. So, if I'm achieving 9-10k from other sources, how can Nirnhoned then not be preferred?

Because the meta sheep have decreed "Sharpened or go home noob!"

That's pretty much how it always works, even if the difference was hovering at less than one percent.

You're not wrong though. Really just depends on what you're hitting. But it's a little impractical to carry around a bag full of the same weapon with different traits so you can customize your load out for each and every encounter. Not to mention I highly doubt the other person is going to whisper you their resist totals before you attack so you can switch weapons.

Lol Yea I get that, but by the time I'm done testing every approach I'll probably be able to... switched to a sharpend 2H last night in my drunken wizdom to compare the difference. That was a huge waste of 100k...

Ep1kMalware wrote: »

bg22 wrote: »

So we've come to understand that sharpened weapons outperforme nirnhoned weapons, but... what if you're gaining penetration from other sources? I.e. Spriggans, serpent, and CP? I've come to understand (from a separate thread) that after a certain point, penetration is next to worthless. So, if I'm achieving 9-10k from other sources, how can Nirnhoned then not be preferred?

Because next best thing is crit% and critical dmg modifiers.

Again, I get that... but with everyone in PvP running impen, does crit modifier make a huge difference over base damage, and would the benefits outweigh the heals? Not to mention bleeds which are of course unblockable?

Really depends. Wd can help with self heals. im not a pvp expert but id balance between penetration, crit% and crit dmg. And trolly proc sets. Charged or even defensive may be better in many pvp situations.

Honestly what I'd do personally for myself: Vma 2h maul sharpened with charged dsa bow and some proc sets that inflict status effects.

Joy_Division

I don't think this is rocket science.

Wrobel and the combat team did likely intend nirnhoned to sometimes be the better choice, most likely the default PvP trait as when these were rebalanced, the forum was up in arms about damage shields and barrier "breaking" PvP (today is is "unlimited sustain" and heavy armor).

But this is Wrobel and ZoS. After three years if you haven't quite figured out their balance changes are usually responding to the "meta" of three months ago and they don't have the best track record of making multiple viable alternatives, then you aren't paying attention.

The day these traits came out on the PTS, our math guru @Asayre demonstrated that unless a target was totally debuffed in a trial raid setting, sharpened was best and it wasn't close. As for PvP, most opponents you face won't have any of these standard raid debuffs on them, which makes sharpened really good. In a perfect world I would probably like a Nirn weapon in a duel Vs. a magicka sorc, but against the vast majority of times you hit an ability button in PvP, sharpened is going to be the best trait by a good amount.

Floki_Vilgerdarson

IzakiBrotherSs wrote: »

Your crit is extremely low. 80% is more or less the norm on non-khajiit stamina builds.

Clever alchemist is trash. Use hundings instead, even Twice-born star is better. Optimal is Two-Fanged snake.

Too much recovery and too much weapon damage, not enough crit (and probably max stamina). Why is your weapon damage that high?

Sharpened is a 12% increase in damage done, Nirnhoned is about 2.7% and Precise is 3.4%.

80% Crit is not "the norm". Unless you are a Khajiit, Nighthlade where you can reach 100% crit if you really wanted.

60% Crit is a good end game PVE norm.

Ch4mpTW

Floki_Vilgerdarson wrote: »

IzakiBrotherSs wrote: »

Your crit is extremely low. 80% is more or less the norm on non-khajiit stamina builds.

Clever alchemist is trash. Use hundings instead, even Twice-born star is better. Optimal is Two-Fanged snake.

Too much recovery and too much weapon damage, not enough crit (and probably max stamina). Why is your weapon damage that high?

Sharpened is a 12% increase in damage done, Nirnhoned is about 2.7% and Precise is 3.4%.

80% Crit is not "the norm". Unless you are a Khajiit, Nighthlade where you can reach 100% crit if you really wanted.

60% Crit is a good end game PVE norm.

Lel. Meanwhile the crit for my characters are usually between 48% to 61%. My PetSorc at 1 point had 30-something crit chance, but I still handled veteran content just fine without it. Both dungeons and trials alike.

Izaki

Floki_Vilgerdarson wrote: »

IzakiBrotherSs wrote: »

Your crit is extremely low. 80% is more or less the norm on non-khajiit stamina builds.

Clever alchemist is trash. Use hundings instead, even Twice-born star is better. Optimal is Two-Fanged snake.

Too much recovery and too much weapon damage, not enough crit (and probably max stamina). Why is your weapon damage that high?

Sharpened is a 12% increase in damage done, Nirnhoned is about 2.7% and Precise is 3.4%.

80% Crit is not "the norm". Unless you are a Khajiit, Nighthlade where you can reach 100% crit if you really wanted.

60% Crit is a good end game PVE norm.

Hmmm, its actually harder to get to 60% on PvE stamina build than getting to 80%... I mean between the Thief, the CP passive, Medium armor passive, Major Savagery, Minor Savagery, 2 Daggers and the set boni, Its pretty hard to not reach 80%. Stamina builds rely on crit much more than magicka builds. And the builds that would net you top DPS have a pretty high chance of having a high crit chance. 54% crit is pretty low for a PvE build anyway.

Marktoneth3 wrote: »

IzakiBrotherSs wrote: »

Your crit is extremely low. 80% is more or less the norm on non-khajiit stamina builds.

Clever alchemist is trash. Use hundings instead, even Twice-born star is better. Optimal is Two-Fanged snake.

Too much recovery and too much weapon damage, not enough crit (and probably max stamina). Why is your weapon damage that high?

Sharpened is a 12% increase in damage done, Nirnhoned is about 2.7% and Precise is 3.4%.

wow just wow

Hmmm yeah I know it does seem weird that you don't need any recovery in PvE right? Don't worry with the CP changes coming kinda soon, it will change. I mean man, I suggested Twice-born Star and Two-Fanged Snake, do you really think I'm suggesting those for a PvP setup? Like really?

kadar

Joy_Division wrote: »

I don't think this is rocket science.

Wrobel and the combat team did likely intend nirnhoned to sometimes be the better choice, most likely the default PvP trait as when these were rebalanced, the forum was up in arms about damage shields and barrier "breaking" PvP (today is is "unlimited sustain" and heavy armor).

But this is Wrobel and ZoS. After three years if you haven't quite figured out their balance changes are usually responding to the "meta" of three months ago and they don't have the best track record of making multiple viable alternatives, then you aren't paying attention.

The day these traits came out on the PTS, our math guru @Asayre demonstrated that unless a target was totally debuffed in a trial raid setting, sharpened was best and it wasn't close. As for PvP, most opponents you face won't have any of these standard raid debuffs on them, which makes sharpened really good. In a perfect world I would probably like a Nirn weapon in a duel Vs. a magicka sorc, but against the vast majority of times you hit an ability button in PvP, sharpened is going to be the best trait by a good amount.

Off of what Jules said, I think of it like this.

Say you've got 10k penetration without Sharp weapons. You could run Nirn and do more damage against targets with ~10k resist. However, who in Cyrodiil runs around with 10k resist: fledgling noobs and mSorcs. The ability to kill noobs faster is no great gain-- you would have killed them fast regardless. Even a squishy NB has ~16k resist almost constantly from passives. You'd be running into ~6k resist that you could have otherwise penetrated with Sharp. And that's not even considering the fact that a huge portion of Cyrodiil is running 24k + resists. Against these targets (who are already tanky) you're hitting 14k of resist just to gain a tiny bit of weapon damage. It's simply not worth it from a damage standpoint.

PS: I chose a Maul (20% penetration) over a 2H Sword (damage) because I found that at the 15-16k resistance mark, the Maul out damages the sword.

bg22

Does resistance count towards bleeds? I know bleeds are unblockable, but not sure about resistance.

Last night in my drunken wizdom I decided to "play the way you want to play" and golded a 2H sharpened axe. The results were my Biting Jabs hitting like a wet paper bag full of baby ***, compared to my nirnhoned daggers, however if the bleeds ignore resist it may be worth it.

bg22

IzakiBrotherSs wrote: »

Floki_Vilgerdarson wrote: »

IzakiBrotherSs wrote: »

Your crit is extremely low. 80% is more or less the norm on non-khajiit stamina builds.

Clever alchemist is trash. Use hundings instead, even Twice-born star is better. Optimal is Two-Fanged snake.

Too much recovery and too much weapon damage, not enough crit (and probably max stamina). Why is your weapon damage that high?

Sharpened is a 12% increase in damage done, Nirnhoned is about 2.7% and Precise is 3.4%.

80% Crit is not "the norm". Unless you are a Khajiit, Nighthlade where you can reach 100% crit if you really wanted.

60% Crit is a good end game PVE norm.

Hmmm, its actually harder to get to 60% on PvE stamina build than getting to 80%... I mean between the Thief, the CP passive, Medium armor passive, Major Savagery, Minor Savagery, 2 Daggers and the set boni, Its pretty hard to not reach 80%. Stamina builds rely on crit much more than magicka builds. And the builds that would net you top DPS have a pretty high chance of having a high crit chance. 54% crit is pretty low for a PvE build anyway.

Marktoneth3 wrote: »

IzakiBrotherSs wrote: »

Your crit is extremely low. 80% is more or less the norm on non-khajiit stamina builds.

Clever alchemist is trash. Use hundings instead, even Twice-born star is better. Optimal is Two-Fanged snake.

Too much recovery and too much weapon damage, not enough crit (and probably max stamina). Why is your weapon damage that high?

Sharpened is a 12% increase in damage done, Nirnhoned is about 2.7% and Precise is 3.4%.

wow just wow

Hmmm yeah I know it does seem weird that you don't need any recovery in PvE right? Don't worry with the CP changes coming kinda soon, it will change. I mean man, I suggested Twice-born Star and Two-Fanged Snake, do you really think I'm suggesting those for a PvP setup? Like really?

I'm not a nightblade, bro. My stats are self-buffed only.

xblackroxe

bg22 wrote: »

Glurin wrote: »

bg22 wrote: »

So we've come to understand that sharpened weapons outperforme nirnhoned weapons, but... what if you're gaining penetration from other sources? I.e. Spriggans, serpent, and CP? I've come to understand (from a separate thread) that after a certain point, penetration is next to worthless. So, if I'm achieving 9-10k from other sources, how can Nirnhoned then not be preferred?

Because the meta sheep have decreed "Sharpened or go home noob!"

That's pretty much how it always works, even if the difference was hovering at less than one percent.

You're not wrong though. Really just depends on what you're hitting. But it's a little impractical to carry around a bag full of the same weapon with different traits so you can customize your load out for each and every encounter. Not to mention I highly doubt the other person is going to whisper you their resist totals before you attack so you can switch weapons.

Lol Yea I get that, but by the time I'm done testing every approach I'll probably be able to... switched to a sharpend 2H last night in my drunken wizdom to compare the difference. That was a huge waste of 100k...

Ep1kMalware wrote: »

bg22 wrote: »

So we've come to understand that sharpened weapons outperforme nirnhoned weapons, but... what if you're gaining penetration from other sources? I.e. Spriggans, serpent, and CP? I've come to understand (from a separate thread) that after a certain point, penetration is next to worthless. So, if I'm achieving 9-10k from other sources, how can Nirnhoned then not be preferred?

Because next best thing is crit% and critical dmg modifiers.

Again, I get that... but with everyone in PvP running impen, does crit modifier make a huge difference over base damage, and would the benefits outweigh the heals? Not to mention bleeds which are of course unblockable?

Well actually even with impen crits still make a huge difference. Its just that without impen they´d hit for even higher and thats why impen is so good.

Unless you are killing some *** monkey you still need crits to actually burst 25-30k health targets fast enough for them to not heal back up again.

And as for sharpened it just doesnt make sense to not run it. On the targets you dont need it it doesn´t really matter cuz they are squishy af already. And for everything that you dont penetrate 100% sharpened just is the best choice.

LorDrek

Trial bosess have only 18 200 resist? When i have 14k penetration + pierce armor is 19k penetration than is alkos on tank useless.

xblackroxe

LorDrek wrote: »

Trial bosess have only 18 200 resist? When i have 14k penetration + pierce armor is 19k penetration than is alkos on tank useless.

Thats why nobody has 14k penetration.

Sharpened + light armor + major breach = 15k
and the rest is for alkosh and potl

kadar

bg22 wrote: »

Does resistance count towards bleeds? I know bleeds are unblockable, but not sure about resistance.

Last night in my drunken wizdom I decided to "play the way you want to play" and golded a 2H sharpened axe. The results were my Biting Jabs hitting like a wet paper bag full of baby ***, compared to my nirnhoned daggers, however if the bleeds ignore resist it may be worth it.

Bleeds are mitigated by resist.