Dk root spam is getting old.

BohnT · March 2017

NeillMcAttack wrote: »

BohnT wrote: »

NeillMcAttack wrote: »

BohnT wrote: »

NeillMcAttack wrote: »

You know what the best counter to eye of the storm is?? Roots!!

You know what the best counter to hard hitting, maybe even tanky, stam builds are? Roots!!

And it's not like roots can't be countered! Forward momentum is an amazing counter to roots! It also keeps you on your front bar and in a position to apply pressure. Just because someone's build is week against roots doesn't mean that root immunity should be a thing. Oh wait!! It already is!

Here's another, how about using magnum shot to keep distance from those root spammers. It even has a snare. But people won't, because the crit rushing, wrecking blow spamming, amazing self healing build is already very strong, and changing it up requires too much in the way people have already learned to play. Well, people have learned to play against that, and if you don't want to change with them then don't come crying here about a problem that will only create greater issues in the long run.

You know these magDK builds don't run a gap closer right. Yet they are only really strong in close range (except for the ultimate). So why is using your own roots and snares not an option!?

No using forward momentum isn't an option as you need the burst heal on stamina builds, you don't have a shield/bol/dragonblood which heals you to 100% again when you need it. Magdk has an useable gap closer nowadays. Magnum shot is useless as the dk blocks the cc and knock back and you can't do anything while you are being knocked back. And it doesn't has a snare that's the other morp that grants you cc immunity so anyone who walks 3 m in 6 seconds can spam roots again.
Stamina has 1 root that needs 1.5 seconds to activate and another one that never roots as it doesn't work on snared targets ( everyone is snared in cyro)

Okay, so what are your options then!? Besides plead here for a massive change to combat mechanics of course!

What could you do, honestly! I'll wait!?

This is the best way to say "I see that I lost the debate but give me more arguments even though you already have one which I cannot redeem"
Simple fix: add a root immunity for 4 seconds and everything is fine, zergs lose strength and you have working counterplay that doesn't wrecks your build entirely by choosing bad morphs.

And this is the best way to say "I don't know how to tweak my build or playstyle to help counter roots". How can I lose a debate you choose not to engage in!?

If having one of the best burst heals, strongest heal over time, large damage, fastest move speed, large stam pool, and, if wearing 7 medium, a 3.5 second root and snare immunity that also grants major evasion, isn't enough. That you also want a constant 4 second root immunity when you roll dodge. Can you please explain how you would intend to balance that so that mag builds, with low stam pools, more limited access to root and snare immunity, contend! I'd like to know this so we can further the debate. Otherwise it's pointless continuing this thread.

Draining shot, I got the morphs mixed up. Knocks back the enemy, disorients them for 5 second and snares for 40% for 6 seconds. Magnum shot moves both of you creating greater distance at the cost of the snare.

You haven't played in medium armor right? You eat so much damage that you have to dodge roll 80% of the attacks or your are dead. The root immunity would help magicka builds even more as they don't have to waste so much stamina or magicka to remove roots every 1 second. Stamina is in the current patch not very good outside of 1vX in 1v1 we lose to magicka specs.
That is not a random saying it's fact that no stamina build has won any relevant duel tournaments.

Magicka has overall better survivability to make up for the loss in mobility if you give them that aswell stamina becomes obsolete.
Root spam is like full live beam or mages fury spamming you wait that the opponent gets killed by others as they have no viable counterplay against you.

kyle.wilson · March 2017

BohnT wrote: »

A root immunity is needed. No one can sustain leaving roots more than ~6 times on a stam build that isn't fully based around dodge rolling, shuffle doesn't reliably work and only works for medium armor builds ( I feel dirty helping heavy armor)
Shuffle costs ~ 3k stam with 100 points into warlord and 7/7 medium, you'll have about 33k stam. You won't encounter an enemy with full stamina though so let's assume we have 27k stam left.
Now we start the fight first thing that hits us: fossilize say goodbye to 7k stam because of break free and dodge roll, we cast vigor to heal ourselves, regen gives us vigor cost back. 2 second into the fight and we are at 20k max stam and our next dodge roll in the following 4 seconds will cost ~4k stam, we better use shuffle again so we can escape the talons for short period of time -3k stam. Let's pressure him we lose about 1k stam after regen gives us stam back. Now we are at 16k stamina after 5 seconds in fight. We need to dodge roll to get some heals with vigor as the damage is getting too much. Goodbye 2k stam and hello cost penalty some attacks and cast shuffle again, 4k stam gone in the next 3 seconds and we sit at 10k stam after 8 seconds of fight against a dk because we have to used so much stamina because of the missing root immunity.

I know this isn't the perfect scenario but in a real fight you will dodge roll too often or buff a skill twice because of lag so the resource drain is realistic.

TL:DR we need root immunity

There are many ways for immunity already
Like assault skill retreating maneuvers
Heavy armor skill immovable
Immovable pots.

BohnT · March 2017

kyle.wilson wrote: »

BohnT wrote: »

A root immunity is needed. No one can sustain leaving roots more than ~6 times on a stam build that isn't fully based around dodge rolling, shuffle doesn't reliably work and only works for medium armor builds ( I feel dirty helping heavy armor)
Shuffle costs ~ 3k stam with 100 points into warlord and 7/7 medium, you'll have about 33k stam. You won't encounter an enemy with full stamina though so let's assume we have 27k stam left.
Now we start the fight first thing that hits us: fossilize say goodbye to 7k stam because of break free and dodge roll, we cast vigor to heal ourselves, regen gives us vigor cost back. 2 second into the fight and we are at 20k max stam and our next dodge roll in the following 4 seconds will cost ~4k stam, we better use shuffle again so we can escape the talons for short period of time -3k stam. Let's pressure him we lose about 1k stam after regen gives us stam back. Now we are at 16k stamina after 5 seconds in fight. We need to dodge roll to get some heals with vigor as the damage is getting too much. Goodbye 2k stam and hello cost penalty some attacks and cast shuffle again, 4k stam gone in the next 3 seconds and we sit at 10k stam after 8 seconds of fight against a dk because we have to used so much stamina because of the missing root immunity.

I know this isn't the perfect scenario but in a real fight you will dodge roll too often or buff a skill twice because of lag so the resource drain is realistic.

TL:DR we need root immunity

There are many ways for immunity already
Like assault skill retreating maneuvers
Heavy armor skill immovable
Immovable pots.

None of these give root immunity except for maneuver that breaks when you use the next skill + it costs 5k stam that's practical for sure ( it is not)

Paneross · March 2017

Where is this misinformation coming from that immovable pots give you immunity to roots?

KingJ · March 2017

kyle.wilson wrote: »

BohnT wrote: »

A root immunity is needed. No one can sustain leaving roots more than ~6 times on a stam build that isn't fully based around dodge rolling, shuffle doesn't reliably work and only works for medium armor builds ( I feel dirty helping heavy armor)
Shuffle costs ~ 3k stam with 100 points into warlord and 7/7 medium, you'll have about 33k stam. You won't encounter an enemy with full stamina though so let's assume we have 27k stam left.
Now we start the fight first thing that hits us: fossilize say goodbye to 7k stam because of break free and dodge roll, we cast vigor to heal ourselves, regen gives us vigor cost back. 2 second into the fight and we are at 20k max stam and our next dodge roll in the following 4 seconds will cost ~4k stam, we better use shuffle again so we can escape the talons for short period of time -3k stam. Let's pressure him we lose about 1k stam after regen gives us stam back. Now we are at 16k stamina after 5 seconds in fight. We need to dodge roll to get some heals with vigor as the damage is getting too much. Goodbye 2k stam and hello cost penalty some attacks and cast shuffle again, 4k stam gone in the next 3 seconds and we sit at 10k stam after 8 seconds of fight against a dk because we have to used so much stamina because of the missing root immunity.

I know this isn't the perfect scenario but in a real fight you will dodge roll too often or buff a skill twice because of lag so the resource drain is realistic.

TL:DR we need root immunity

There are many ways for immunity already
Like assault skill retreating maneuvers
Heavy armor skill immovable
Immovable pots.

Retreating maneuvers breaks when you heal yourself and cost 5k stam a magic build can't use that and pretty expensive even for stam.

Heavy armor skill is expensive as hell and only last for 3-5 seconds I believe. It also doesn't give root immunity same with immovable pots.

Paneross · March 2017

Root spamming is the new Radiant spam from the back lines.

paulsimonps · March 2017

Paneross wrote: »

Root spamming is the new Radiant spam from the back lines.

There is nothing new about using roots to spam and hold down an enemy and its been used consistently like this since the start of the game.

KingJ · March 2017

Paneross wrote: »

Root spamming is the new Radiant spam from the back lines.

Nahh endless fury is the new radiant.

Paneross · March 2017

KingJ wrote: »

Paneross wrote: »

Root spamming is the new Radiant spam from the back lines.

Nahh endless fury is the new radiant.

Both

NeillMcAttack · March 2017

BohnT wrote: »

NeillMcAttack wrote: »

BohnT wrote: »

NeillMcAttack wrote: »

BohnT wrote: »

NeillMcAttack wrote: »

You know what the best counter to eye of the storm is?? Roots!!

You know what the best counter to hard hitting, maybe even tanky, stam builds are? Roots!!

And it's not like roots can't be countered! Forward momentum is an amazing counter to roots! It also keeps you on your front bar and in a position to apply pressure. Just because someone's build is week against roots doesn't mean that root immunity should be a thing. Oh wait!! It already is!

Here's another, how about using magnum shot to keep distance from those root spammers. It even has a snare. But people won't, because the crit rushing, wrecking blow spamming, amazing self healing build is already very strong, and changing it up requires too much in the way people have already learned to play. Well, people have learned to play against that, and if you don't want to change with them then don't come crying here about a problem that will only create greater issues in the long run.

You know these magDK builds don't run a gap closer right. Yet they are only really strong in close range (except for the ultimate). So why is using your own roots and snares not an option!?

No using forward momentum isn't an option as you need the burst heal on stamina builds, you don't have a shield/bol/dragonblood which heals you to 100% again when you need it. Magdk has an useable gap closer nowadays. Magnum shot is useless as the dk blocks the cc and knock back and you can't do anything while you are being knocked back. And it doesn't has a snare that's the other morp that grants you cc immunity so anyone who walks 3 m in 6 seconds can spam roots again.
Stamina has 1 root that needs 1.5 seconds to activate and another one that never roots as it doesn't work on snared targets ( everyone is snared in cyro)

Okay, so what are your options then!? Besides plead here for a massive change to combat mechanics of course!

What could you do, honestly! I'll wait!?

This is the best way to say "I see that I lost the debate but give me more arguments even though you already have one which I cannot redeem"
Simple fix: add a root immunity for 4 seconds and everything is fine, zergs lose strength and you have working counterplay that doesn't wrecks your build entirely by choosing bad morphs.

And this is the best way to say "I don't know how to tweak my build or playstyle to help counter roots". How can I lose a debate you choose not to engage in!?

If having one of the best burst heals, strongest heal over time, large damage, fastest move speed, large stam pool, and, if wearing 7 medium, a 3.5 second root and snare immunity that also grants major evasion, isn't enough. That you also want a constant 4 second root immunity when you roll dodge. Can you please explain how you would intend to balance that so that mag builds, with low stam pools, more limited access to root and snare immunity, contend! I'd like to know this so we can further the debate. Otherwise it's pointless continuing this thread.

Draining shot, I got the morphs mixed up. Knocks back the enemy, disorients them for 5 second and snares for 40% for 6 seconds. Magnum shot moves both of you creating greater distance at the cost of the snare.

You haven't played in medium armor right? You eat so much damage that you have to dodge roll 80% of the attacks or your are dead. The root immunity would help magicka builds even more as they don't have to waste so much stamina or magicka to remove roots every 1 second. Stamina is in the current patch not very good outside of 1vX in 1v1 we lose to magicka specs.
That is not a random saying it's fact that no stamina build has won any relevant duel tournaments.

Magicka has overall better survivability to make up for the loss in mobility if you give them that aswell stamina becomes obsolete.
Root spam is like full live beam or mages fury spamming you wait that the opponent gets killed by others as they have no viable counterplay against you.

If one roll dodge and a shuffle isn't enough to break LOS, then you are likely out of position or have over extended. If we are talking group play or 1v1 the discussion changes significantly. Open world PvP is never going to favour being outnumbered unless the skills of the players are significantly different and better co-ordinated.
Anyway, are you saying that you don't run 5 or more medium or no? In which case, where is the trade off for you? Is it that having to roll dodge out of LOS is unbalanced as mag can just stand and cast shields?? Is the problem your having really 'no root immunity' or constantly being outnumbered?

I've played stam in Cyro many times. In 5 medium if I'm playing my stam blade or stam sorc and stams greatest strength is it's ability to LOS and pick and choose engagements easier. In duels that is much different as LOS is much harder if even allowed at all. So I'll ask again. Do feel it would be possible to lock down a stam build if root immunity was a thing? And do you think it would be balanced to have such an insane amount of mobility? Should gap closers be essential on all builds!? Because what you are suggesting is that you want an even greater ability to engage and dis-engage as you please without counter play.

Nser · March 2017

BohnT wrote: »

A root immunity is needed. No one can sustain leaving roots more than ~6 times on a stam build that isn't fully based around dodge rolling, shuffle doesn't reliably work and only works for medium armor builds ( I feel dirty helping heavy armor)
Shuffle costs ~ 3k stam with 100 points into warlord and 7/7 medium, you'll have about 33k stam. You won't encounter an enemy with full stamina though so let's assume we have 27k stam left.
Now we start the fight first thing that hits us: fossilize say goodbye to 7k stam because of break free and dodge roll, we cast vigor to heal ourselves, regen gives us vigor cost back. 2 second into the fight and we are at 20k max stam and our next dodge roll in the following 4 seconds will cost ~4k stam, we better use shuffle again so we can escape the talons for short period of time -3k stam. Let's pressure him we lose about 1k stam after regen gives us stam back. Now we are at 16k stamina after 5 seconds in fight. We need to dodge roll to get some heals with vigor as the damage is getting too much. Goodbye 2k stam and hello cost penalty some attacks and cast shuffle again, 4k stam gone in the next 3 seconds and we sit at 10k stam after 8 seconds of fight against a dk because we have to used so much stamina because of the missing root immunity.

I know this isn't the perfect scenario but in a real fight you will dodge roll too often or buff a skill twice because of lag so the resource drain is realistic.

TL:DR we need root immunity

what u gonna do next patch then worden class have more roots then mdk gl then in next patch

BohnT · March 2017

Nser wrote: »

BohnT wrote: »

A root immunity is needed. No one can sustain leaving roots more than ~6 times on a stam build that isn't fully based around dodge rolling, shuffle doesn't reliably work and only works for medium armor builds ( I feel dirty helping heavy armor)
Shuffle costs ~ 3k stam with 100 points into warlord and 7/7 medium, you'll have about 33k stam. You won't encounter an enemy with full stamina though so let's assume we have 27k stam left.
Now we start the fight first thing that hits us: fossilize say goodbye to 7k stam because of break free and dodge roll, we cast vigor to heal ourselves, regen gives us vigor cost back. 2 second into the fight and we are at 20k max stam and our next dodge roll in the following 4 seconds will cost ~4k stam, we better use shuffle again so we can escape the talons for short period of time -3k stam. Let's pressure him we lose about 1k stam after regen gives us stam back. Now we are at 16k stamina after 5 seconds in fight. We need to dodge roll to get some heals with vigor as the damage is getting too much. Goodbye 2k stam and hello cost penalty some attacks and cast shuffle again, 4k stam gone in the next 3 seconds and we sit at 10k stam after 8 seconds of fight against a dk because we have to used so much stamina because of the missing root immunity.

I know this isn't the perfect scenario but in a real fight you will dodge roll too often or buff a skill twice because of lag so the resource drain is realistic.

TL:DR we need root immunity

what u gonna do next patch then worden class have more roots then mdk gl then in next patch

That's why root immunity is needed. Roots are not contributing towards healthy game balance.
Roots weren't a problem when we had no magdks or no dodge roll cost penalty.
Remember all the threads about bombard before it was nerfed.
I'll still play my nb and will curse every time I'm getting zerged at a resource by 20ppl spamming lotus fan, roots and destro ult. Just because it's/ will be in the game doesn't mean it is fine

THEDKEXPERIENCE · March 2017

Sanctum74 wrote: »

Shouldn't have to use up a skill spot just to counter another skill which clearly needs to have a cooldown, increased cost for repeated use, or preferably a root immunity.

This comment is EVERYTHING that is wrong with how people approach PVP. Surviving in PVP is not about equipping your bar with every cool thing you have. It's about equipping your bar so that you can survive every potential assault you can think of.

"Play how you want" is not a promise that what you want to do will keep you alive. If what you want to do is stay alive, then pick up skills that will keep you that way. Here is a quick list of everything my character can do to stay alive.

- block
- roll
- line of sight
- mist form
- retreating manuevers
- breath of life
- Templar magic recovery and extra armor circle
- heavy armor
- potions

While none of these are perfect for every occasion, they cover 99.999% of actions that happen in Cyrodiil. Do you think I want to have this many defensive abilities? Nope. It's way more fun just DPSing my face off. But, that said, playing with a bunch of defensive abilities is way better than either playing horse riding simulator 2K17 or crying on the forums.

You have been given the proper tools to be prepared for everything. If you are actively choosing not to use them, that's on you.

BohnT · March 2017

NeillMcAttack wrote: »

BohnT wrote: »

NeillMcAttack wrote: »

BohnT wrote: »

NeillMcAttack wrote: »

BohnT wrote: »

NeillMcAttack wrote: »

You know what the best counter to eye of the storm is?? Roots!!

You know what the best counter to hard hitting, maybe even tanky, stam builds are? Roots!!

And it's not like roots can't be countered! Forward momentum is an amazing counter to roots! It also keeps you on your front bar and in a position to apply pressure. Just because someone's build is week against roots doesn't mean that root immunity should be a thing. Oh wait!! It already is!

Here's another, how about using magnum shot to keep distance from those root spammers. It even has a snare. But people won't, because the crit rushing, wrecking blow spamming, amazing self healing build is already very strong, and changing it up requires too much in the way people have already learned to play. Well, people have learned to play against that, and if you don't want to change with them then don't come crying here about a problem that will only create greater issues in the long run.

You know these magDK builds don't run a gap closer right. Yet they are only really strong in close range (except for the ultimate). So why is using your own roots and snares not an option!?

No using forward momentum isn't an option as you need the burst heal on stamina builds, you don't have a shield/bol/dragonblood which heals you to 100% again when you need it. Magdk has an useable gap closer nowadays. Magnum shot is useless as the dk blocks the cc and knock back and you can't do anything while you are being knocked back. And it doesn't has a snare that's the other morp that grants you cc immunity so anyone who walks 3 m in 6 seconds can spam roots again.
Stamina has 1 root that needs 1.5 seconds to activate and another one that never roots as it doesn't work on snared targets ( everyone is snared in cyro)

Okay, so what are your options then!? Besides plead here for a massive change to combat mechanics of course!

What could you do, honestly! I'll wait!?

This is the best way to say "I see that I lost the debate but give me more arguments even though you already have one which I cannot redeem"
Simple fix: add a root immunity for 4 seconds and everything is fine, zergs lose strength and you have working counterplay that doesn't wrecks your build entirely by choosing bad morphs.

And this is the best way to say "I don't know how to tweak my build or playstyle to help counter roots". How can I lose a debate you choose not to engage in!?

If having one of the best burst heals, strongest heal over time, large damage, fastest move speed, large stam pool, and, if wearing 7 medium, a 3.5 second root and snare immunity that also grants major evasion, isn't enough. That you also want a constant 4 second root immunity when you roll dodge. Can you please explain how you would intend to balance that so that mag builds, with low stam pools, more limited access to root and snare immunity, contend! I'd like to know this so we can further the debate. Otherwise it's pointless continuing this thread.

Draining shot, I got the morphs mixed up. Knocks back the enemy, disorients them for 5 second and snares for 40% for 6 seconds. Magnum shot moves both of you creating greater distance at the cost of the snare.

You haven't played in medium armor right? You eat so much damage that you have to dodge roll 80% of the attacks or your are dead. The root immunity would help magicka builds even more as they don't have to waste so much stamina or magicka to remove roots every 1 second. Stamina is in the current patch not very good outside of 1vX in 1v1 we lose to magicka specs.
That is not a random saying it's fact that no stamina build has won any relevant duel tournaments.

Magicka has overall better survivability to make up for the loss in mobility if you give them that aswell stamina becomes obsolete.
Root spam is like full live beam or mages fury spamming you wait that the opponent gets killed by others as they have no viable counterplay against you.

If one roll dodge and a shuffle isn't enough to break LOS, then you are likely out of position or have over extended. If we are talking group play or 1v1 the discussion changes significantly. Open world PvP is never going to favour being outnumbered unless the skills of the players are significantly different and better co-ordinated.
Anyway, are you saying that you don't run 5 or more medium or no? In which case, where is the trade off for you? Is it that having to roll dodge out of LOS is unbalanced as mag can just stand and cast shields?? Is the problem your having really 'no root immunity' or constantly being outnumbered?

I've played stam in Cyro many times. In 5 medium if I'm playing my stam blade or stam sorc and stams greatest strength is it's ability to LOS and pick and choose engagements easier. In duels that is much different as LOS is much harder if even allowed at all. So I'll ask again. Do feel it would be possible to lock down a stam build if root immunity was a thing? And do you think it would be balanced to have such an insane amount of mobility? Should gap closers be essential on all builds!? Because what you are suggesting is that you want an even greater ability to engage and dis-engage as you please without counter play.

I'm not talking about my special build I consider every build in my arguments from heavy armor templar to medium armor stam sorc and all suffer hard from being constantly rooted without reliable immunity for a short period of time
You seem to play magdk and want to see everything that makes them bad removed.
They've been pretty bad but some ppl still kicked ass with them after the dark days so don't come up with " they would be trash because of root immunity"

The_Smilemeister · March 2017

First of all, forget Dragonknights for a minute. We're talking about an effect here. I think slamming on Dragonknights for an effect that comes with an ability of theirs is not only missing the point, but is also uneccessary especially since talons is not the only thing that can root.

Now on to the root cause (no pun intended) of the problem. For every problem there needs to be a solution. There are also problems to every solution, however it's a continuous cycle of ideas and strategies that allow for issues to be overcome and for new issues to come about.

Stuns can be solved by immunities granted from breaking free and by abilities from the medium and heavy armour skill lines. Cloak can be solved by another Nightblade using piercing marks in order to reveal the hiding Player. Damaged health can be solved by using a heal. You get the picture.

Let's have a look at root. How do you overcome roots? Well... you can't.

The problem with roots is that there's no counter. Whether it's immunity gained from dodge rolling or a passive gained when casting an ability, there's no solution to rooting. Rooting is a major resource drain which is a serious detriment to Stamina builds and even Magicka builds occasionally and because there's no way to actually counter it means that it can be unfairly exploited.

Someone mentioned that people complaining should go for ranged combat instead. #1 - That's not solving the problem, that's avoiding it. #2 - What about builds which require melee combat in order to properly function (there are many Magicka builds that rely on dual wield or one handed/shield to be viable)?
#3 - Even if using ranged as a means of avoiding root, what if you get ambushed or someone unexpectedly gets too close and then they constantly root you?

I agree with most people in saying that some form of immunity should be applied to roots, even if it's a short immunity. At least then you have a solution.

Asking to nerf Dragonknights or saying L2P to people is not solving the problem at all. Focus on what the actual problem is and suggest how it can be solved.

Paneross · March 2017

OpponentSmile66 wrote: »

First of all, forget Dragonknights for a minute. We're talking about an effect here. I think slamming on Dragonknights for an effect that comes with an ability of theirs is not only missing the point, but is also uneccessary especially since talons is not the only thing that can root.

Now on to the root cause (no pun intended) of the problem. For every problem there needs to be a solution. There are also problems to every solution, however it's a continuous cycle of ideas and strategies that allow for issues to be overcome and for new issues to come about.

Stuns can be solved by immunities granted from breaking free and by abilities from the medium and heavy armour skill lines. Cloak can be solved by another Nightblade using piercing marks in order to reveal the hiding Player. Damaged health can be solved by using a heal. You get the picture.

Let's have a look at root. How do you overcome roots? Well... you can't.

The problem with roots is that there's no counter. Whether it's immunity gained from dodge rolling or a passive gained when casting an ability, there's no solution to rooting. Rooting is a major resource drain which is a serious detriment to Stamina builds and even Magicka builds occasionally and because there's no way to actually counter it means that it can be unfairly exploited.

Someone mentioned that people complaining should go for ranged combat instead. #1 - That's not solving the problem, that's avoiding it. #2 - What about builds which require melee combat in order to properly function (there are many Magicka builds that rely on dual wield or one handed/shield to be viable)?
#3 - Even if using ranged as a means of avoiding root, what if you get ambushed or someone unexpectedly gets too close and then they constantly root you?

I agree with most people in saying that some form of immunity should be applied to roots, even if it's a short immunity. At least then you have a solution.

Asking to nerf Dragonknights or saying L2P to people is not solving the problem at all. Focus on what the actual problem is and suggest how it can be solved.

@ZOS_GinaBruno @ZOS_JessicaFolsom @ZOS_Wolfram

NeillMcAttack · March 2017

BohnT wrote: »

NeillMcAttack wrote: »

BohnT wrote: »

NeillMcAttack wrote: »

BohnT wrote: »

NeillMcAttack wrote: »

BohnT wrote: »

NeillMcAttack wrote: »

You know what the best counter to eye of the storm is?? Roots!!

You know what the best counter to hard hitting, maybe even tanky, stam builds are? Roots!!

And it's not like roots can't be countered! Forward momentum is an amazing counter to roots! It also keeps you on your front bar and in a position to apply pressure. Just because someone's build is week against roots doesn't mean that root immunity should be a thing. Oh wait!! It already is!

Here's another, how about using magnum shot to keep distance from those root spammers. It even has a snare. But people won't, because the crit rushing, wrecking blow spamming, amazing self healing build is already very strong, and changing it up requires too much in the way people have already learned to play. Well, people have learned to play against that, and if you don't want to change with them then don't come crying here about a problem that will only create greater issues in the long run.

You know these magDK builds don't run a gap closer right. Yet they are only really strong in close range (except for the ultimate). So why is using your own roots and snares not an option!?

No using forward momentum isn't an option as you need the burst heal on stamina builds, you don't have a shield/bol/dragonblood which heals you to 100% again when you need it. Magdk has an useable gap closer nowadays. Magnum shot is useless as the dk blocks the cc and knock back and you can't do anything while you are being knocked back. And it doesn't has a snare that's the other morp that grants you cc immunity so anyone who walks 3 m in 6 seconds can spam roots again.
Stamina has 1 root that needs 1.5 seconds to activate and another one that never roots as it doesn't work on snared targets ( everyone is snared in cyro)

Okay, so what are your options then!? Besides plead here for a massive change to combat mechanics of course!

What could you do, honestly! I'll wait!?

This is the best way to say "I see that I lost the debate but give me more arguments even though you already have one which I cannot redeem"
Simple fix: add a root immunity for 4 seconds and everything is fine, zergs lose strength and you have working counterplay that doesn't wrecks your build entirely by choosing bad morphs.

And this is the best way to say "I don't know how to tweak my build or playstyle to help counter roots". How can I lose a debate you choose not to engage in!?

If having one of the best burst heals, strongest heal over time, large damage, fastest move speed, large stam pool, and, if wearing 7 medium, a 3.5 second root and snare immunity that also grants major evasion, isn't enough. That you also want a constant 4 second root immunity when you roll dodge. Can you please explain how you would intend to balance that so that mag builds, with low stam pools, more limited access to root and snare immunity, contend! I'd like to know this so we can further the debate. Otherwise it's pointless continuing this thread.

Draining shot, I got the morphs mixed up. Knocks back the enemy, disorients them for 5 second and snares for 40% for 6 seconds. Magnum shot moves both of you creating greater distance at the cost of the snare.

You haven't played in medium armor right? You eat so much damage that you have to dodge roll 80% of the attacks or your are dead. The root immunity would help magicka builds even more as they don't have to waste so much stamina or magicka to remove roots every 1 second. Stamina is in the current patch not very good outside of 1vX in 1v1 we lose to magicka specs.
That is not a random saying it's fact that no stamina build has won any relevant duel tournaments.

Magicka has overall better survivability to make up for the loss in mobility if you give them that aswell stamina becomes obsolete.
Root spam is like full live beam or mages fury spamming you wait that the opponent gets killed by others as they have no viable counterplay against you.

If one roll dodge and a shuffle isn't enough to break LOS, then you are likely out of position or have over extended. If we are talking group play or 1v1 the discussion changes significantly. Open world PvP is never going to favour being outnumbered unless the skills of the players are significantly different and better co-ordinated.
Anyway, are you saying that you don't run 5 or more medium or no? In which case, where is the trade off for you? Is it that having to roll dodge out of LOS is unbalanced as mag can just stand and cast shields?? Is the problem your having really 'no root immunity' or constantly being outnumbered?

I've played stam in Cyro many times. In 5 medium if I'm playing my stam blade or stam sorc and stams greatest strength is it's ability to LOS and pick and choose engagements easier. In duels that is much different as LOS is much harder if even allowed at all. So I'll ask again. Do feel it would be possible to lock down a stam build if root immunity was a thing? And do you think it would be balanced to have such an insane amount of mobility? Should gap closers be essential on all builds!? Because what you are suggesting is that you want an even greater ability to engage and dis-engage as you please without counter play.

I'm not talking about my special build I consider every build in my arguments from heavy armor templar to medium armor stam sorc and all suffer hard from being constantly rooted without reliable immunity for a short period of time
You seem to play magdk and want to see everything that makes them bad removed.
They've been pretty bad but some ppl still kicked ass with them after the dark days so don't come up with " they would be trash because of root immunity"

I haven't played my mag DK since before Christmas. What I'm running in open world right now is my main, a MagBlade. Probably the weakest sub class to play against a MagDk. And it's a stand and trade build, I don't even run cloak anymore. But I make it work, it wasn't easy but I figured out what can work for me. So if your only argument is to attempt to discredit me claiming bias then I believe you have nothing to argue for. If you cant tell me that the ability to engage and dis-engage as you please with zero counter play is balanced with root immunity, then the debate is over.

And if you think mag temps suffer more from roots than stam builds, who are by design more mobile, and should remain as such, then I don't know if you actually have the full picture.

BohnT · March 2017

NeillMcAttack wrote: »

BohnT wrote: »

NeillMcAttack wrote: »

BohnT wrote: »

NeillMcAttack wrote: »

BohnT wrote: »

NeillMcAttack wrote: »

BohnT wrote: »

NeillMcAttack wrote: »

You know what the best counter to eye of the storm is?? Roots!!

You know what the best counter to hard hitting, maybe even tanky, stam builds are? Roots!!

And it's not like roots can't be countered! Forward momentum is an amazing counter to roots! It also keeps you on your front bar and in a position to apply pressure. Just because someone's build is week against roots doesn't mean that root immunity should be a thing. Oh wait!! It already is!

Here's another, how about using magnum shot to keep distance from those root spammers. It even has a snare. But people won't, because the crit rushing, wrecking blow spamming, amazing self healing build is already very strong, and changing it up requires too much in the way people have already learned to play. Well, people have learned to play against that, and if you don't want to change with them then don't come crying here about a problem that will only create greater issues in the long run.

You know these magDK builds don't run a gap closer right. Yet they are only really strong in close range (except for the ultimate). So why is using your own roots and snares not an option!?

No using forward momentum isn't an option as you need the burst heal on stamina builds, you don't have a shield/bol/dragonblood which heals you to 100% again when you need it. Magdk has an useable gap closer nowadays. Magnum shot is useless as the dk blocks the cc and knock back and you can't do anything while you are being knocked back. And it doesn't has a snare that's the other morp that grants you cc immunity so anyone who walks 3 m in 6 seconds can spam roots again.
Stamina has 1 root that needs 1.5 seconds to activate and another one that never roots as it doesn't work on snared targets ( everyone is snared in cyro)

Okay, so what are your options then!? Besides plead here for a massive change to combat mechanics of course!

What could you do, honestly! I'll wait!?

This is the best way to say "I see that I lost the debate but give me more arguments even though you already have one which I cannot redeem"
Simple fix: add a root immunity for 4 seconds and everything is fine, zergs lose strength and you have working counterplay that doesn't wrecks your build entirely by choosing bad morphs.

And this is the best way to say "I don't know how to tweak my build or playstyle to help counter roots". How can I lose a debate you choose not to engage in!?

If having one of the best burst heals, strongest heal over time, large damage, fastest move speed, large stam pool, and, if wearing 7 medium, a 3.5 second root and snare immunity that also grants major evasion, isn't enough. That you also want a constant 4 second root immunity when you roll dodge. Can you please explain how you would intend to balance that so that mag builds, with low stam pools, more limited access to root and snare immunity, contend! I'd like to know this so we can further the debate. Otherwise it's pointless continuing this thread.

Draining shot, I got the morphs mixed up. Knocks back the enemy, disorients them for 5 second and snares for 40% for 6 seconds. Magnum shot moves both of you creating greater distance at the cost of the snare.

You haven't played in medium armor right? You eat so much damage that you have to dodge roll 80% of the attacks or your are dead. The root immunity would help magicka builds even more as they don't have to waste so much stamina or magicka to remove roots every 1 second. Stamina is in the current patch not very good outside of 1vX in 1v1 we lose to magicka specs.
That is not a random saying it's fact that no stamina build has won any relevant duel tournaments.

Magicka has overall better survivability to make up for the loss in mobility if you give them that aswell stamina becomes obsolete.
Root spam is like full live beam or mages fury spamming you wait that the opponent gets killed by others as they have no viable counterplay against you.

If one roll dodge and a shuffle isn't enough to break LOS, then you are likely out of position or have over extended. If we are talking group play or 1v1 the discussion changes significantly. Open world PvP is never going to favour being outnumbered unless the skills of the players are significantly different and better co-ordinated.
Anyway, are you saying that you don't run 5 or more medium or no? In which case, where is the trade off for you? Is it that having to roll dodge out of LOS is unbalanced as mag can just stand and cast shields?? Is the problem your having really 'no root immunity' or constantly being outnumbered?

I've played stam in Cyro many times. In 5 medium if I'm playing my stam blade or stam sorc and stams greatest strength is it's ability to LOS and pick and choose engagements easier. In duels that is much different as LOS is much harder if even allowed at all. So I'll ask again. Do feel it would be possible to lock down a stam build if root immunity was a thing? And do you think it would be balanced to have such an insane amount of mobility? Should gap closers be essential on all builds!? Because what you are suggesting is that you want an even greater ability to engage and dis-engage as you please without counter play.

I'm not talking about my special build I consider every build in my arguments from heavy armor templar to medium armor stam sorc and all suffer hard from being constantly rooted without reliable immunity for a short period of time
You seem to play magdk and want to see everything that makes them bad removed.
They've been pretty bad but some ppl still kicked ass with them after the dark days so don't come up with " they would be trash because of root immunity"

I haven't played my mag DK since before Christmas. What I'm running in open world right now is my main, a MagBlade. Probably the weakest sub class to play against a MagDk. And it's a stand and trade build, I don't even run cloak anymore. But I make it work, it wasn't easy but I figured out what can work for me. So if your only argument is to attempt to discredit me claiming bias then I believe you have nothing to argue for. If you cant tell me that the ability to engage and dis-engage as you please with zero counter play is balanced with root immunity, then the debate is over.

And if you think mag temps suffer more from roots than stam builds, who are by design more mobile, and should remain as such, then I don't know if you actually have the full picture.

I said everyone suffers from roots as they make zerging even more easy. The magtemplar will probably survive 3 second longer against the zerg but in the end he still dies.
Yes a root immunity would make disengaging a zerg easier as the root spammer can't hold you for a long time on one place so you can try to run away or LoS them.
Easy example: A train moves at 30m/s towards a baby on the rails which is 600m away. The baby itself doesn't move.
600m/30m/s= 20s ( Baby is dead)
Now the baby is a grown up which knows that the train is coming but he's in a tunnel and can't avoid the train if he waits. However the end of the tunnel is only 120m away will the adult survive if he runs with a speed of 6m/s?
720m/30m/s= 24 sec
120m/6m/s= 20 second ==> man will survive
This is the same thing in cyro if I can't move the zerg will kill me, if I can move I have a chance of surviving and this is why we need root immunity

THEDKEXPERIENCE · March 2017

OpponentSmile66 wrote: »

First of all, forget Dragonknights for a minute. We're talking about an effect here. I think slamming on Dragonknights for an effect that comes with an ability of theirs is not only missing the point, but is also uneccessary especially since talons is not the only thing that can root.

Now on to the root cause (no pun intended) of the problem. For every problem there needs to be a solution. There are also problems to every solution, however it's a continuous cycle of ideas and strategies that allow for issues to be overcome and for new issues to come about.

Stuns can be solved by immunities granted from breaking free and by abilities from the medium and heavy armour skill lines. Cloak can be solved by another Nightblade using piercing marks in order to reveal the hiding Player. Damaged health can be solved by using a heal. You get the picture.

Let's have a look at root. How do you overcome roots? Well... you can't.

The problem with roots is that there's no counter. Whether it's immunity gained from dodge rolling or a passive gained when casting an ability, there's no solution to rooting. Rooting is a major resource drain which is a serious detriment to Stamina builds and even Magicka builds occasionally and because there's no way to actually counter it means that it can be unfairly exploited.

Someone mentioned that people complaining should go for ranged combat instead. #1 - That's not solving the problem, that's avoiding it. #2 - What about builds which require melee combat in order to properly function (there are many Magicka builds that rely on dual wield or one handed/shield to be viable)?
#3 - Even if using ranged as a means of avoiding root, what if you get ambushed or someone unexpectedly gets too close and then they constantly root you?

I agree with most people in saying that some form of immunity should be applied to roots, even if it's a short immunity. At least then you have a solution.

Asking to nerf Dragonknights or saying L2P to people is not solving the problem at all. Focus on what the actual problem is and suggest how it can be solved.

Mist Form is the counter. You might not want to be a vampire but don't pretend there is not an option. You can Mist Form right out of any root instantly.

Mist Form is the paper to a root's rock. Stop pretending this does not exist.

Paneross · March 2017

#MakeDKfairAgain

Paneross · March 2017

THEDKEXPERIENCE wrote: »

OpponentSmile66 wrote: »

First of all, forget Dragonknights for a minute. We're talking about an effect here. I think slamming on Dragonknights for an effect that comes with an ability of theirs is not only missing the point, but is also uneccessary especially since talons is not the only thing that can root.

Now on to the root cause (no pun intended) of the problem. For every problem there needs to be a solution. There are also problems to every solution, however it's a continuous cycle of ideas and strategies that allow for issues to be overcome and for new issues to come about.

Stuns can be solved by immunities granted from breaking free and by abilities from the medium and heavy armour skill lines. Cloak can be solved by another Nightblade using piercing marks in order to reveal the hiding Player. Damaged health can be solved by using a heal. You get the picture.

Let's have a look at root. How do you overcome roots? Well... you can't.

The problem with roots is that there's no counter. Whether it's immunity gained from dodge rolling or a passive gained when casting an ability, there's no solution to rooting. Rooting is a major resource drain which is a serious detriment to Stamina builds and even Magicka builds occasionally and because there's no way to actually counter it means that it can be unfairly exploited.

Someone mentioned that people complaining should go for ranged combat instead. #1 - That's not solving the problem, that's avoiding it. #2 - What about builds which require melee combat in order to properly function (there are many Magicka builds that rely on dual wield or one handed/shield to be viable)?
#3 - Even if using ranged as a means of avoiding root, what if you get ambushed or someone unexpectedly gets too close and then they constantly root you?

I agree with most people in saying that some form of immunity should be applied to roots, even if it's a short immunity. At least then you have a solution.

Asking to nerf Dragonknights or saying L2P to people is not solving the problem at all. Focus on what the actual problem is and suggest how it can be solved.

Mist Form is the counter. You might not want to be a vampire but don't pretend there is not an option. You can Mist Form right out of any root instantly.

Mist Form is the paper to a root's rock. Stop pretending this does not exist.

Why should you be FORCED to be a vampire just to counter one spammable skill with no cool down or immunity. That sounds fair.

NeillMcAttack · March 2017

BohnT wrote: »

NeillMcAttack wrote: »

BohnT wrote: »

NeillMcAttack wrote: »

BohnT wrote: »

NeillMcAttack wrote: »

BohnT wrote: »

NeillMcAttack wrote: »

BohnT wrote: »

NeillMcAttack wrote: »

You know what the best counter to eye of the storm is?? Roots!!

You know what the best counter to hard hitting, maybe even tanky, stam builds are? Roots!!

And it's not like roots can't be countered! Forward momentum is an amazing counter to roots! It also keeps you on your front bar and in a position to apply pressure. Just because someone's build is week against roots doesn't mean that root immunity should be a thing. Oh wait!! It already is!

Here's another, how about using magnum shot to keep distance from those root spammers. It even has a snare. But people won't, because the crit rushing, wrecking blow spamming, amazing self healing build is already very strong, and changing it up requires too much in the way people have already learned to play. Well, people have learned to play against that, and if you don't want to change with them then don't come crying here about a problem that will only create greater issues in the long run.

You know these magDK builds don't run a gap closer right. Yet they are only really strong in close range (except for the ultimate). So why is using your own roots and snares not an option!?

No using forward momentum isn't an option as you need the burst heal on stamina builds, you don't have a shield/bol/dragonblood which heals you to 100% again when you need it. Magdk has an useable gap closer nowadays. Magnum shot is useless as the dk blocks the cc and knock back and you can't do anything while you are being knocked back. And it doesn't has a snare that's the other morp that grants you cc immunity so anyone who walks 3 m in 6 seconds can spam roots again.
Stamina has 1 root that needs 1.5 seconds to activate and another one that never roots as it doesn't work on snared targets ( everyone is snared in cyro)

Okay, so what are your options then!? Besides plead here for a massive change to combat mechanics of course!

What could you do, honestly! I'll wait!?

This is the best way to say "I see that I lost the debate but give me more arguments even though you already have one which I cannot redeem"
Simple fix: add a root immunity for 4 seconds and everything is fine, zergs lose strength and you have working counterplay that doesn't wrecks your build entirely by choosing bad morphs.

And this is the best way to say "I don't know how to tweak my build or playstyle to help counter roots". How can I lose a debate you choose not to engage in!?

If having one of the best burst heals, strongest heal over time, large damage, fastest move speed, large stam pool, and, if wearing 7 medium, a 3.5 second root and snare immunity that also grants major evasion, isn't enough. That you also want a constant 4 second root immunity when you roll dodge. Can you please explain how you would intend to balance that so that mag builds, with low stam pools, more limited access to root and snare immunity, contend! I'd like to know this so we can further the debate. Otherwise it's pointless continuing this thread.

Draining shot, I got the morphs mixed up. Knocks back the enemy, disorients them for 5 second and snares for 40% for 6 seconds. Magnum shot moves both of you creating greater distance at the cost of the snare.

You haven't played in medium armor right? You eat so much damage that you have to dodge roll 80% of the attacks or your are dead. The root immunity would help magicka builds even more as they don't have to waste so much stamina or magicka to remove roots every 1 second. Stamina is in the current patch not very good outside of 1vX in 1v1 we lose to magicka specs.
That is not a random saying it's fact that no stamina build has won any relevant duel tournaments.

Magicka has overall better survivability to make up for the loss in mobility if you give them that aswell stamina becomes obsolete.
Root spam is like full live beam or mages fury spamming you wait that the opponent gets killed by others as they have no viable counterplay against you.

If one roll dodge and a shuffle isn't enough to break LOS, then you are likely out of position or have over extended. If we are talking group play or 1v1 the discussion changes significantly. Open world PvP is never going to favour being outnumbered unless the skills of the players are significantly different and better co-ordinated.
Anyway, are you saying that you don't run 5 or more medium or no? In which case, where is the trade off for you? Is it that having to roll dodge out of LOS is unbalanced as mag can just stand and cast shields?? Is the problem your having really 'no root immunity' or constantly being outnumbered?

I've played stam in Cyro many times. In 5 medium if I'm playing my stam blade or stam sorc and stams greatest strength is it's ability to LOS and pick and choose engagements easier. In duels that is much different as LOS is much harder if even allowed at all. So I'll ask again. Do feel it would be possible to lock down a stam build if root immunity was a thing? And do you think it would be balanced to have such an insane amount of mobility? Should gap closers be essential on all builds!? Because what you are suggesting is that you want an even greater ability to engage and dis-engage as you please without counter play.

I'm not talking about my special build I consider every build in my arguments from heavy armor templar to medium armor stam sorc and all suffer hard from being constantly rooted without reliable immunity for a short period of time
You seem to play magdk and want to see everything that makes them bad removed.
They've been pretty bad but some ppl still kicked ass with them after the dark days so don't come up with " they would be trash because of root immunity"

I haven't played my mag DK since before Christmas. What I'm running in open world right now is my main, a MagBlade. Probably the weakest sub class to play against a MagDk. And it's a stand and trade build, I don't even run cloak anymore. But I make it work, it wasn't easy but I figured out what can work for me. So if your only argument is to attempt to discredit me claiming bias then I believe you have nothing to argue for. If you cant tell me that the ability to engage and dis-engage as you please with zero counter play is balanced with root immunity, then the debate is over.

And if you think mag temps suffer more from roots than stam builds, who are by design more mobile, and should remain as such, then I don't know if you actually have the full picture.

I said everyone suffers from roots as they make zerging even more easy. The magtemplar will probably survive 3 second longer against the zerg but in the end he still dies.
Yes a root immunity would make disengaging a zerg easier as the root spammer can't hold you for a long time on one place so you can try to run away or LoS them.
Easy example: A train moves at 30m/s towards a baby on the rails which is 600m away. The baby itself doesn't move.
600m/30m/s= 20s ( Baby is dead)
Now the baby is a grown up which knows that the train is coming but he's in a tunnel and can't avoid the train if he waits. However the end of the tunnel is only 120m away will the adult survive if he runs with a speed of 6m/s?
720m/30m/s= 24 sec
120m/6m/s= 20 second ==> man will survive
This is the same thing in cyro if I can't move the zerg will kill me, if I can move I have a chance of surviving and this is why we need root immunity

So you want to run into and away from zergs with total immunity, and babies don't mix well with speeding trains! Gotcha.

NeillMcAttack · March 2017

Paneross wrote: »

THEDKEXPERIENCE wrote: »

OpponentSmile66 wrote: »

First of all, forget Dragonknights for a minute. We're talking about an effect here. I think slamming on Dragonknights for an effect that comes with an ability of theirs is not only missing the point, but is also uneccessary especially since talons is not the only thing that can root.

Now on to the root cause (no pun intended) of the problem. For every problem there needs to be a solution. There are also problems to every solution, however it's a continuous cycle of ideas and strategies that allow for issues to be overcome and for new issues to come about.

Stuns can be solved by immunities granted from breaking free and by abilities from the medium and heavy armour skill lines. Cloak can be solved by another Nightblade using piercing marks in order to reveal the hiding Player. Damaged health can be solved by using a heal. You get the picture.

Let's have a look at root. How do you overcome roots? Well... you can't.

The problem with roots is that there's no counter. Whether it's immunity gained from dodge rolling or a passive gained when casting an ability, there's no solution to rooting. Rooting is a major resource drain which is a serious detriment to Stamina builds and even Magicka builds occasionally and because there's no way to actually counter it means that it can be unfairly exploited.

Someone mentioned that people complaining should go for ranged combat instead. #1 - That's not solving the problem, that's avoiding it. #2 - What about builds which require melee combat in order to properly function (there are many Magicka builds that rely on dual wield or one handed/shield to be viable)?
#3 - Even if using ranged as a means of avoiding root, what if you get ambushed or someone unexpectedly gets too close and then they constantly root you?

I agree with most people in saying that some form of immunity should be applied to roots, even if it's a short immunity. At least then you have a solution.

Asking to nerf Dragonknights or saying L2P to people is not solving the problem at all. Focus on what the actual problem is and suggest how it can be solved.

Mist Form is the counter. You might not want to be a vampire but don't pretend there is not an option. You can Mist Form right out of any root instantly.

Mist Form is the paper to a root's rock. Stop pretending this does not exist.

Why should you be FORCED to be a vampire just to counter one spammable skill with no cool down or immunity. That sounds fair.

Use purge, then stun, then move out of range! Sorted.

Paneross · March 2017

NeillMcAttack wrote: »

Paneross wrote: »

THEDKEXPERIENCE wrote: »

OpponentSmile66 wrote: »

First of all, forget Dragonknights for a minute. We're talking about an effect here. I think slamming on Dragonknights for an effect that comes with an ability of theirs is not only missing the point, but is also uneccessary especially since talons is not the only thing that can root.

Now on to the root cause (no pun intended) of the problem. For every problem there needs to be a solution. There are also problems to every solution, however it's a continuous cycle of ideas and strategies that allow for issues to be overcome and for new issues to come about.

Stuns can be solved by immunities granted from breaking free and by abilities from the medium and heavy armour skill lines. Cloak can be solved by another Nightblade using piercing marks in order to reveal the hiding Player. Damaged health can be solved by using a heal. You get the picture.

Let's have a look at root. How do you overcome roots? Well... you can't.

The problem with roots is that there's no counter. Whether it's immunity gained from dodge rolling or a passive gained when casting an ability, there's no solution to rooting. Rooting is a major resource drain which is a serious detriment to Stamina builds and even Magicka builds occasionally and because there's no way to actually counter it means that it can be unfairly exploited.

Someone mentioned that people complaining should go for ranged combat instead. #1 - That's not solving the problem, that's avoiding it. #2 - What about builds which require melee combat in order to properly function (there are many Magicka builds that rely on dual wield or one handed/shield to be viable)?
#3 - Even if using ranged as a means of avoiding root, what if you get ambushed or someone unexpectedly gets too close and then they constantly root you?

I agree with most people in saying that some form of immunity should be applied to roots, even if it's a short immunity. At least then you have a solution.

Asking to nerf Dragonknights or saying L2P to people is not solving the problem at all. Focus on what the actual problem is and suggest how it can be solved.

Mist Form is the counter. You might not want to be a vampire but don't pretend there is not an option. You can Mist Form right out of any root instantly.

Mist Form is the paper to a root's rock. Stop pretending this does not exist.

Why should you be FORCED to be a vampire just to counter one spammable skill with no cool down or immunity. That sounds fair.

Use purge, then stun, then move out of range! Sorted.

Doesn't prevent spamming.

THEDKEXPERIENCE · March 2017

Paneross wrote: »

THEDKEXPERIENCE wrote: »

OpponentSmile66 wrote: »

First of all, forget Dragonknights for a minute. We're talking about an effect here. I think slamming on Dragonknights for an effect that comes with an ability of theirs is not only missing the point, but is also uneccessary especially since talons is not the only thing that can root.

Now on to the root cause (no pun intended) of the problem. For every problem there needs to be a solution. There are also problems to every solution, however it's a continuous cycle of ideas and strategies that allow for issues to be overcome and for new issues to come about.

Stuns can be solved by immunities granted from breaking free and by abilities from the medium and heavy armour skill lines. Cloak can be solved by another Nightblade using piercing marks in order to reveal the hiding Player. Damaged health can be solved by using a heal. You get the picture.

Let's have a look at root. How do you overcome roots? Well... you can't.

The problem with roots is that there's no counter. Whether it's immunity gained from dodge rolling or a passive gained when casting an ability, there's no solution to rooting. Rooting is a major resource drain which is a serious detriment to Stamina builds and even Magicka builds occasionally and because there's no way to actually counter it means that it can be unfairly exploited.

Someone mentioned that people complaining should go for ranged combat instead. #1 - That's not solving the problem, that's avoiding it. #2 - What about builds which require melee combat in order to properly function (there are many Magicka builds that rely on dual wield or one handed/shield to be viable)?
#3 - Even if using ranged as a means of avoiding root, what if you get ambushed or someone unexpectedly gets too close and then they constantly root you?

I agree with most people in saying that some form of immunity should be applied to roots, even if it's a short immunity. At least then you have a solution.

Asking to nerf Dragonknights or saying L2P to people is not solving the problem at all. Focus on what the actual problem is and suggest how it can be solved.

Mist Form is the counter. You might not want to be a vampire but don't pretend there is not an option. You can Mist Form right out of any root instantly.

Mist Form is the paper to a root's rock. Stop pretending this does not exist.

Why should you be FORCED to be a vampire just to counter one spammable skill with no cool down or immunity. That sounds fair.

Why? Because you are one of the people complaining about it. If you don't want to be a vamp, no big deal. You don't have to be. But if you have such a problem with roots that it leads to a 4 page forum post then you should consider changing how you play.

Why am I forced to wear heavy armor, and equip 7 different defensive abilities? Because I want to survive. If you want to survive then do the same. If not, then you truly don't want to survive bad enough.

Paneross · March 2017

THEDKEXPERIENCE wrote: »

Paneross wrote: »

THEDKEXPERIENCE wrote: »

OpponentSmile66 wrote: »

First of all, forget Dragonknights for a minute. We're talking about an effect here. I think slamming on Dragonknights for an effect that comes with an ability of theirs is not only missing the point, but is also uneccessary especially since talons is not the only thing that can root.

Now on to the root cause (no pun intended) of the problem. For every problem there needs to be a solution. There are also problems to every solution, however it's a continuous cycle of ideas and strategies that allow for issues to be overcome and for new issues to come about.

Stuns can be solved by immunities granted from breaking free and by abilities from the medium and heavy armour skill lines. Cloak can be solved by another Nightblade using piercing marks in order to reveal the hiding Player. Damaged health can be solved by using a heal. You get the picture.

Let's have a look at root. How do you overcome roots? Well... you can't.

The problem with roots is that there's no counter. Whether it's immunity gained from dodge rolling or a passive gained when casting an ability, there's no solution to rooting. Rooting is a major resource drain which is a serious detriment to Stamina builds and even Magicka builds occasionally and because there's no way to actually counter it means that it can be unfairly exploited.

Someone mentioned that people complaining should go for ranged combat instead. #1 - That's not solving the problem, that's avoiding it. #2 - What about builds which require melee combat in order to properly function (there are many Magicka builds that rely on dual wield or one handed/shield to be viable)?
#3 - Even if using ranged as a means of avoiding root, what if you get ambushed or someone unexpectedly gets too close and then they constantly root you?

I agree with most people in saying that some form of immunity should be applied to roots, even if it's a short immunity. At least then you have a solution.

Asking to nerf Dragonknights or saying L2P to people is not solving the problem at all. Focus on what the actual problem is and suggest how it can be solved.

Mist Form is the counter. You might not want to be a vampire but don't pretend there is not an option. You can Mist Form right out of any root instantly.

Mist Form is the paper to a root's rock. Stop pretending this does not exist.

Why should you be FORCED to be a vampire just to counter one spammable skill with no cool down or immunity. That sounds fair.

Why? Because you are one of the people complaining about it. If you don't want to be a vamp, no big deal. You don't have to be. But if you have such a problem with roots that it leads to a 4 page forum post then you should consider changing how you play.

Why am I forced to wear heavy armor, and equip 7 different defensive abilities? Because I want to survive. If you want to survive then do the same. If not, then you truly don't want to survive bad enough.

You just spam rooted this post.

THEDKEXPERIENCE · March 2017

Paneross wrote: »

THEDKEXPERIENCE wrote: »

Paneross wrote: »

THEDKEXPERIENCE wrote: »

OpponentSmile66 wrote: »

First of all, forget Dragonknights for a minute. We're talking about an effect here. I think slamming on Dragonknights for an effect that comes with an ability of theirs is not only missing the point, but is also uneccessary especially since talons is not the only thing that can root.

Now on to the root cause (no pun intended) of the problem. For every problem there needs to be a solution. There are also problems to every solution, however it's a continuous cycle of ideas and strategies that allow for issues to be overcome and for new issues to come about.

Stuns can be solved by immunities granted from breaking free and by abilities from the medium and heavy armour skill lines. Cloak can be solved by another Nightblade using piercing marks in order to reveal the hiding Player. Damaged health can be solved by using a heal. You get the picture.

Let's have a look at root. How do you overcome roots? Well... you can't.

The problem with roots is that there's no counter. Whether it's immunity gained from dodge rolling or a passive gained when casting an ability, there's no solution to rooting. Rooting is a major resource drain which is a serious detriment to Stamina builds and even Magicka builds occasionally and because there's no way to actually counter it means that it can be unfairly exploited.

Someone mentioned that people complaining should go for ranged combat instead. #1 - That's not solving the problem, that's avoiding it. #2 - What about builds which require melee combat in order to properly function (there are many Magicka builds that rely on dual wield or one handed/shield to be viable)?
#3 - Even if using ranged as a means of avoiding root, what if you get ambushed or someone unexpectedly gets too close and then they constantly root you?

I agree with most people in saying that some form of immunity should be applied to roots, even if it's a short immunity. At least then you have a solution.

Asking to nerf Dragonknights or saying L2P to people is not solving the problem at all. Focus on what the actual problem is and suggest how it can be solved.

Mist Form is the counter. You might not want to be a vampire but don't pretend there is not an option. You can Mist Form right out of any root instantly.

Mist Form is the paper to a root's rock. Stop pretending this does not exist.

Why should you be FORCED to be a vampire just to counter one spammable skill with no cool down or immunity. That sounds fair.

Why? Because you are one of the people complaining about it. If you don't want to be a vamp, no big deal. You don't have to be. But if you have such a problem with roots that it leads to a 4 page forum post then you should consider changing how you play.

Why am I forced to wear heavy armor, and equip 7 different defensive abilities? Because I want to survive. If you want to survive then do the same. If not, then you truly don't want to survive bad enough.

You just spam rooted this post.

Oddly, I've never used a CC in Cyrodiil. Templar problems.

Look, I know it's not ideal. It would be way better to have a reliable root break in one of the weapon skill lines, but that is not the case. What is the case, however, is that there is a VERY reliable counter to roots available to anyone. If you choose not to use it, then that's on you.

The moment I started using Mist Form my PVP game stepped up immensely. It's arguably the best skill in the game for PVP survival.

Cously · March 2017

Jesus beam is got old. Streak got old. Fear got old. DK was a class built for close combat. We have no escapes. We have no executes. We have to stand and fight. More than that, we have to fight on melee range. This class got nerfed to the extreme because you cry babies can't hide behind the battlements and get chained, or because you cry babies insist in meteoring everyone and their mothers without notice it might be a DK with wings. And if you are up against a zerg anyways then you are done no matter what skills are being used.

EldritchPenguin · March 2017

Paneross wrote: »

THEDKEXPERIENCE wrote: »

OpponentSmile66 wrote: »

First of all, forget Dragonknights for a minute. We're talking about an effect here. I think slamming on Dragonknights for an effect that comes with an ability of theirs is not only missing the point, but is also uneccessary especially since talons is not the only thing that can root.

Now on to the root cause (no pun intended) of the problem. For every problem there needs to be a solution. There are also problems to every solution, however it's a continuous cycle of ideas and strategies that allow for issues to be overcome and for new issues to come about.

Stuns can be solved by immunities granted from breaking free and by abilities from the medium and heavy armour skill lines. Cloak can be solved by another Nightblade using piercing marks in order to reveal the hiding Player. Damaged health can be solved by using a heal. You get the picture.

Let's have a look at root. How do you overcome roots? Well... you can't.

The problem with roots is that there's no counter. Whether it's immunity gained from dodge rolling or a passive gained when casting an ability, there's no solution to rooting. Rooting is a major resource drain which is a serious detriment to Stamina builds and even Magicka builds occasionally and because there's no way to actually counter it means that it can be unfairly exploited.

Someone mentioned that people complaining should go for ranged combat instead. #1 - That's not solving the problem, that's avoiding it. #2 - What about builds which require melee combat in order to properly function (there are many Magicka builds that rely on dual wield or one handed/shield to be viable)?
#3 - Even if using ranged as a means of avoiding root, what if you get ambushed or someone unexpectedly gets too close and then they constantly root you?

I agree with most people in saying that some form of immunity should be applied to roots, even if it's a short immunity. At least then you have a solution.

Asking to nerf Dragonknights or saying L2P to people is not solving the problem at all. Focus on what the actual problem is and suggest how it can be solved.

Mist Form is the counter. You might not want to be a vampire but don't pretend there is not an option. You can Mist Form right out of any root instantly.

Mist Form is the paper to a root's rock. Stop pretending this does not exist.

Why should you be FORCED to be a vampire just to counter one spammable skill with no cool down or immunity. That sounds fair.

You say that like countering Talons is the one and only use for Mist Form. Mist Form is one of the strongest defensive abilities in the game. Running a vampire just for Mist Form is probably a net gain, unless you're a Stamina class, but Stamina classes have Shuffle and roll dodging, which is just as good of a counter for Talons (if not better).

Yes, the ability is spammable and has no cooldown or immunity. But that doesn't mean it's impossible to counter. It's quite the opposite, in fact. If there is an ability that gives you a lot of trouble, and a counter exists for it, and you choose not to use it, then that's on you. It's not the ability's fault.

Sanctum74 · March 2017

So i guess us solo magic users have a few choices:

Join a zerg where skill doesnt matter
Use mist form which AGAIN we cant fight back while using, gonna get rooted at end anyway, and requires being vamp.
Or just get guud and L2P!

Wow I always learn so much from these forums and thank you @THEDKEXPERIENCE for letting me know I'm everything that's wrong with pvp for wanting the ability to fight back. Lol guess I'm just supposed to mist away and run.