Stamblade (DD) trying to tank

malicia · March 2017

I normally play a DD stamblade, with fairly standard beginner setup: a mix of Hundings and NMG, DW dagger on front bar with a bow on the back bar. All my CP (about 310) are also setup for a run of the mill DD. All my attribute points are in stam, with zero in health or magica. I'm not a total noob, but I'm not a master gamer capable of weaving LAs and skills while dodging the great red circles either.

As advised on another thread, I've collected heavy armor and am now trying to tank my way through the daily pledges (pugging). It is actually a lot of fun, and makes queues negligible for myself, and shorter for those I group with. Thus far I've done the last two days' pledges on normal with zero wipes, IIRC, and vFG1 a couple of times with only one wipe. So I'm not doing exceptionally bad, but I'm pretty sure that I can support my group much better than I'm currently doing. I'm aiming my setup at survivability with lots of self-sustain; this approach has enabled me to fairly easily survive most dungeons thus far, irrespective of how good or bad the healer is (*1).

Any hints, tips, suggestions or such will be appreciated. If you're a real tank shaking your head at this interloper ... I understand. I'll leave the real tanking to you, and will not dare poke my shield into any trial or real tough content. TBH, I'm even afraid of poking this shield into nCoS. That lady at the end might just sit on it and shatter it into kindling!

In short, my "tanking requirements" are:
1. Must have good survivability.
2. Must have excellent resource management.
3. I don't mind swopping gear and skillsets between DDing and Tanking, but I don't want to have to change CP or attributes.

Current gear:
5 x Alessia's Bulwark
5 x Green Pact
2 x Merida's Blessed Armor

Everything is health-enchanted. Traits on the Alessia's are all infused. The Green Pact and Merida's are basically random traits.

Front bar:
Sword and Shield (Green pact)
- Pierce Armor
- Swallow Soul
- Blur
- Reaper's Mark
- Siphoning Strikes
->Consuming Darkness

Back bar:
Mace and Axe (Green pact. Daggers were badly expensive!)
- Surprise Attack
- Blood Craze
- Vigor (*2)
- Deadly Cloak
- Relentless Focus
-> War Horn

If needed I can post more exact numbers later, but in generally my stats are:
- Life > 30k
- Stam ~ 18k (never runs out, though, unless I mess up)
- Magic ~ 12k (also never runs out)

*1 - ironically, I got only one bad healer in the last couple of pugs. Most were totally capable of keeping this noob wannabe tank alive.

The one bad one was a high CP healer who figured that the low CPs around him is beneath his healing, and thus focused on DPS. The only group that wiped for the evening.

*2 - most runs I never use it, but a life saver on rare occasions. It is a crutch that saves me from low DPS, bad healing, and bad tanking (done by me, I'll admit).

Keep_Door · March 2017

Magicka sap tank

Jitterbug · March 2017

Cool project. Will follow this thread.

You don't roll with undaunted taunt?
And what do you do to control the large trash pulls?

malicia · March 2017

Jitterbug wrote: »

Cool project. Will follow this thread.

You don't roll with undaunted taunt?
And what do you do to control the large trash pulls?

I've unlocked it with the idea of using it, but I felt that I need my current slotted skills more than Inner Beast. Inner Beast also just targets a single enemy at a time, so I wasn't sure if it would actually work against large groups of mobs. As a taunt I prefer Pierce Armor, as it gives Major Breech. Most pug groups aren't big on synergies, so I don't see Inner Beast's synergy as much of a boon.

Generally I activate Deadly Cloak before I engage. Then I run in, Pierce Armor the two/three largest mobs, and then go to the Boss, Pierce armor, get behind it (thus turns its back to my group), and wait for them. Mostly that brings the largest mobs to me as well a few of the others. I struggled a bit with Volenfell's three Centurion bosses - getting them together for the DD's AOE DoTs was a bit of a challenge. Holding them there was much easier.

RavenSworn · March 2017

Hi @malicia!

I main a nb tank, stamina based. Some thoughts on the build:

1) have you given thought to change reaper's mark for Absorb magic? The mark does the same debuffs as the Pierce Armor which for me would seem a better choice to use. Absorb magic has a slotted passive of more block and also helps with health for those pesky mages or even spell flinging bosses.

2) putting shadow abilities on both bars increases your stats and also, with the shadow passive, activating it will buff your resistance. I find putting refreshing path on the same bar as siphon soul really helps.

3) Using steel tornado on initial pulls also will give your tank a sort of aoe taunt that can help with groups. I also sometimes use deep slash on groups, changing the target every now and then to keep the minor maim up and also to pseudo cc the mobs.

4) gear wise, ebon armory is one of the better choices. I did think of using it with hide of the Werewolf for ult generation but it seems having a dps oriented set gives better output on tanking. You can also try for the bone pirate tatters for more stamina.

5) you don't need to be a hybrid but I do find using both resources for tanking is best-in-practice. Change inner beast with inner fire for that "if I don't have enough stamina to taunt with Pierce Armor, I can always inner fire" moments. I know I use inner fire with Pierce Armor with vBC2 last boss, inner fire the boss and Pierce Armor the Daedroth.

Hope this helps!

malicia · March 2017

^^Thanks for the advice! I'll certainly play around with those. Absorb magic seems pretty nifty, and I was actually thinking of adding some more AoE somehow, as I've found that many new DDs are so focussed on single target damage, that they miss the fact that there are multiple enemies in dungeons. I haven't seen a single PUG NB use Power Extraction or Shrouded Daggers yet today. But I don't want to be that tank who dies because he tried doing DPS.

So Whirling Blades (Steel Tornado) might just be an excellent compromise between helping more with AoE, and pulling more mobs to me.

I can probably swop the Green Pact for Ebon - it will cost me health regen and about 2k health, but the extra health for group members might be worth it.

What traits do you prefer, generally? And Enchants? The only set where I could really choose was Alessia's, and there I went with Reinforced with max Health enchants. I considered Prismatic, but thought them a bit costly to try as I wasn't sure whether I'll be able to survive to start with.

Savos_Saren · March 2017

Sorry if I missed it- but what is your character's race? There's tons of options for gear since you won't be running vet trials or vet CoS.

malicia · March 2017

jaburns wrote: »

Sorry if I missed it- but what is your character's race? There's tons of options for gear since you won't be running vet trials or vet CoS.

I'm a Bosmer. I usually love playing Rogue style - and Bosmer is quite good with that. Not ideal for tanking, but if I do trials, it is and will be as DD.

Stannum · March 2017

Hmm, you can try frost staf blocking with stam build. So you can apply ele drain (for magickasteal) siphoning attacks and spam SA (which will also buff your resists via passive and debuff enemy phis resist) while frost staff permablock, you will have magicka return for blocking, and no stam regen blocking as you block with staff. All that you will need is to have some sturdy items and may be jewellery enchantment for block. Taunt with undaunted skill (stamina morph).
Magika sap NB is still better but i think that experimental build can combine tanking option with good DPS. May be you can even go med armor base 5m+1h+1l or 5m+2h.
Have not tested that only give and idea.

malicia · March 2017

Stannum wrote: »

Hmm, you can try frost staf blocking with stam build....May be you can even go med armor base 5m+1h+1l or 5m+2h.

This looks quite interesting, but for now I'll stick to heavy armor. I doubt that I'm skilled enough to survive without lots of health and resistance. I'll consider adding light and medium to the mix only once I have much more confidence in my tanking.

I will look at the frost staff option. I guess that will go to the front bar? The greatest drawback for me will be that I'll have to hunt a few more skyshards. Unlocking the heavy armor passives and sword-and-shield skills has drained me of all my extra skillpoints. If I got that route I guess a few prismatic enchants on my armor would make sense. At the moment my magic pool is quite small - it basically empties with each rotation. Fortunately my recovery with Siphoning Strikes is enough to refill it with each rotation a well.

Stannum · March 2017

malicia wrote: »

Stannum wrote: »

Hmm, you can try frost staf blocking with stam build....May be you can even go med armor base 5m+1h+1l or 5m+2h.

This looks quite interesting, but for now I'll stick to heavy armor. I doubt that I'm skilled enough to survive without lots of health and resistance. I'll consider adding light and medium to the mix only once I have much more confidence in my tanking.

I will look at the frost staff option. I guess that will go to the front bar? The greatest drawback for me will be that I'll have to hunt a few more skyshards. Unlocking the heavy armor passives and sword-and-shield skills has drained me of all my extra skillpoints. If I got that route I guess a few prismatic enchants on my armor would make sense. At the moment my magic pool is quite small - it basically empties with each rotation. Fortunately my recovery with Siphoning Strikes is enough to refill it with each rotation a well.

Indeed permablocking will provide you enough dmg mitigation to go medium base, and medium will give you stam regen to atack all the time.

Brrrofski · March 2017

You probably want either heroic slash or shades for the minor main against bosses.

I did want to do a stam NB tank but honestly, I like my saptank too much to bother tanking on anything else.

RavenSworn · March 2017

jaburns wrote: »

Sorry if I missed it- but what is your character's race? There's tons of options for gear since you won't be running vet trials or vet CoS.

I don't think race would matter much if it's just 4mans.

RavenSworn · March 2017

malicia wrote: »

^^Thanks for the advice! I'll certainly play around with those. Absorb magic seems pretty nifty, and I was actually thinking of adding some more AoE somehow, as I've found that many new DDs are so focussed on single target damage, that they miss the fact that there are multiple enemies in dungeons. I haven't seen a single PUG NB use Power Extraction or Shrouded Daggers yet today. But I don't want to be that tank who dies because he tried doing DPS. So Whirling Blades (Steel Tornado) might just be an excellent compromise between helping more with AoE, and pulling more mobs to me.

I can probably swop the Green Pact for Ebon - it will cost me health regen and about 2k health, but the extra health for group members might be worth it.

What traits do you prefer, generally? And Enchants? The only set where I could really choose was Alessia's, and there I went with Reinforced with max Health enchants. I considered Prismatic, but thought them a bit costly to try as I wasn't sure whether I'll be able to survive to start with.

Honestly, health regeneration is not that good a stat for tanking imo. It's good but it's not that good as compared to resistance or reduced cost. Power extraction is not as good an aoe simply because of the animation delay that comes with it. I prefer infused traits with divines but reinforced in the small pieces would help as well.

malicia · March 2017

My mundus is the Thief, and it wouldn't make sense to swap Mundus every time I want to swap to tanking gear. I don't think that Thief is a good Mundus for a tank, which means that Divines will probably not be a good fit for me?

I get what you say on the health regen - it is nice to have, but the healer's doing much more than my regen could hope to. Even my self healing from e.g. Swallow Soul does more than my regen does.

BTW - my Power Extraction comment was aimed at DDs. It is a fairly good AoE for Stamblade DDs as it adds Major Brutality. I won't consider it for Tanking, though - it doesn't add anything that will make me survive for longer.

Stannum · March 2017

malicia wrote: »

My mundus is the Thief, and it wouldn't make sense to swap Mundus every time I want to swap to tanking gear. I don't think that Thief is a good Mundus for a tank, which means that Divines will probably not be a good fit for me?

I get what you say on the health regen - it is nice to have, but the healer's doing much more than my regen could hope to. Even my self healing from e.g. Swallow Soul does more than my regen does.

BTW - my Power Extraction comment was aimed at DDs. It is a fairly good AoE for Stamblade DDs as it adds Major Brutality. I won't consider it for Tanking, though - it doesn't add anything that will make me survive for longer.

Traits for tanking should not be divines, you should use sturdy or infused(for large parts)+sturdy. As for mundus depends on build for mag sap tank i used atro to get about 2100 magicka regen to spam strifle with siphoning attacks and get stamina for blocking for inverted stamblade you may use serpent. Resource managment is very imporatnt for tank cause you should allways be ready to CC-break and block.

WalksonGraves · March 2017

siphoning strikes + heavy attack generates enough stam for 2-3 blocks and a light can attack be done during a boss charge up attack and be able to block before it lands.
Sap is a bad skill, the healing and damage is low and its expensive. I have had invigorating drain heal for over 10k/s. Once you free yourself of relying on sap you can tank on par with dks.

Savos_Saren · March 2017

Honestly- it sounds like you want to be able to swap roles between DD and Tank with just a swap of armor. I can work with that... but it won't be the optimal setup. Here it goes:

If you want to keep Thief as your mundus and still reap benefits as a tank- then i suggest getting the jewelry, sword, and shield of the Briarheart set. This set is a DD set- however, it offers high damage and heals off critical strikes. The way you'll procc it is by using Refreshing Path- an ability that you'll need as a tank, anyway (since it gives you major buffs and heals over time).

Next, combine it with "Seventh Legion Brute". This is a full heavy armor set that proccs a heal and extra damage when you're hit. Wearing the five heavy pieces of this will offer you extra healing recieved from the amor passives as well as extra crit (to proc Briarheart) in the set pieces.

Finally, perhaps use the Sentinel of Rukgamz monster set. This will actually supplement your siphoning strikes.

This setup will give you plenty of self heals, survivabilty from heavy armor passives, and fulfill that nagging need to do some DPS while tanking. It actually has some of the highest weapon damage proccs in the game!!!

If you're going to be a punching bag- why not punch back?!??

Hope this helps!

Autolycus · March 2017

I made some comments on another thread regarding stam NB tanking. Here is the link, if interested.

I also have an extensive guide on sap tanking. I updated it today for Homestead. The main thing you want to note if you reference this guide is that it is geared for a predominant magicka focus. This really doesn't change most of what you do as a stamblade tank, but in places where is says, for example, to glyph for magicka if you've already got enough health, you would instead glyph for stamina. Between this guide and the comment I linked above, you should have everything you need.

malicia · March 2017

jaburns wrote: »

Honestly- it sounds like you want to be able to swap roles between DD and Tank with just a swap of armor. I can work with that... but it won't be the optimal setup. Here it goes:

If you want to keep Thief as your mundus and still reap benefits as a tank- then i suggest getting the jewelry, sword, and shield of the Briarheart set. This set is a DD set- however, it offers high damage and heals off critical strikes. The way you'll procc it is by using Refreshing Path- an ability that you'll need as a tank, anyway (since it gives you major buffs and heals over time).

Next, combine it with "Seventh Legion Brute". This is a full heavy armor set that proccs a heal and extra damage when you're hit. Wearing the five heavy pieces of this will offer you extra healing recieved from the amor passives as well as extra crit (to proc Briarheart) in the set pieces.

Finally, perhaps use the Sentinel of Rukgamz monster set. This will actually supplement your siphoning strikes....

Yep, I mostly play DD, but have found that even a sub-optimal tank (me in my current setup) can be of great worth both in pledges and in open world with World Bosses. I'm not sure why, but real tanks seems to be in short supply. I know how frustrating it is to wait in the queue and the last thing missing is a tank - this way I score and the group gets their tank. Onus is on me, though, to make sure that I don't queue for dungeons where I can't keep the Boss from targeting my group.

Briarheart - I've actually already put Refreshing Path on my front bar, based on @RavenSworn 's advice. So Briarheart seems to be a real good fit.

Seventh Legion Brute will cost me a bit in max health and resistance. I'll try it and see how I do with it in something easy like nFG.

Thanks for the advice!

kylewwefan · March 2017

For your S/B bar, I would put pierce armor, siphon attack, sap essence, swallow soul, absorb magic. Get atronach mundus. Wrothgar health magic recovery food. Jewelry enchants 1 maybe 2 shield play. 1 or 2 magic recovery.

Leeching plate armor from ICP and something that gives armor bonus like footman, thunderbug , resilient yokeda....armor master. Malubeth the scourger monster helm from wayrest sewers. Very easy to get.

You get a good bit of healing from all those siphon skills on one bar. CP blue tree much more into magic and healing. Cp green Magic cost reduction and magic recovery. Cp red Split elemental hardy thick skin.

Shoot for 30K health, 20k or more Stam. Magic is kind of irrelevant just get the recovery.

Siphon attacks and funnel health can sustain perma block quite well.

This is basically what they call a magic sap tank.

TheStealthDude · March 2017

kylewwefan wrote: »

For your S/B bar, I would put pierce armor, siphon attack, sap essence, swallow soul, absorb magic. Get atronach mundus. Wrothgar health magic recovery food. Jewelry enchants 1 maybe 2 shield play. 1 or 2 magic recovery.

Leeching plate armor from ICP and something that gives armor bonus like footman, thunderbug , resilient yokeda....armor master. Malubeth the scourger monster helm from wayrest sewers. Very easy to get.

You get a good bit of healing from all those siphon skills on one bar. CP blue tree much more into magic and healing. Cp green Magic cost reduction and magic recovery. Cp red Split elemental hardy thick skin.

Shoot for 30K health, 20k or more Stam. Magic is kind of irrelevant just get the recovery.

Siphon attacks and funnel health can sustain perma block quite well.

This is basically what they call a magic sap tank.

There is a bit of a difference between a stamblade tank and a sap tank. I don't think you can really be a sap tank with ~10k Magicka. You should be closer to 30k, otherwise sap essence (the defining feature of a "Sap Tank") is pretty useless.

kylewwefan · March 2017

Maybe I was doing it wrong

KingYogi415 · March 2017

You should run bloodthirst on your dw bar.

It's your main spamable and it heals you.

malicia · March 2017

KingYogi415 wrote: »

You should run bloodthirst on your dw bar.

It's your main spamable and it heals you.

That's certainly an option. I still need to change the morph to Bloodthirst (I want to switch to Bloodthirst in any case to see if it makes vMA a bit easier for me). I'm currently alternating between Blood Craze and Surprise Attack as spamables on my DW bar. Bloodthirst will basically allow me to open a slot. I'm just not sure which will heal more - Blood Craza or Bloodthirst.

kylewwefan · March 2017

TheStealthDude wrote: »

kylewwefan wrote: »

For your S/B bar, I would put pierce armor, siphon attack, sap essence, swallow soul, absorb magic. Get atronach mundus. Wrothgar health magic recovery food. Jewelry enchants 1 maybe 2 shield play. 1 or 2 magic recovery.

Leeching plate armor from ICP and something that gives armor bonus like footman, thunderbug , resilient yokeda....armor master. Malubeth the scourger monster helm from wayrest sewers. Very easy to get.

You get a good bit of healing from all those siphon skills on one bar. CP blue tree much more into magic and healing. Cp green Magic cost reduction and magic recovery. Cp red Split elemental hardy thick skin.

Shoot for 30K health, 20k or more Stam. Magic is kind of irrelevant just get the recovery.

Siphon attacks and funnel health can sustain perma block quite well.

This is basically what they call a magic sap tank.

There is a bit of a difference between a stamblade tank and a sap tank. I don't think you can really be a sap tank with ~10k Magicka. You should be closer to 30k, otherwise sap essence (the defining feature of a "Sap Tank") is pretty useless.

I used my setup last night like I had listed. 29k health, 24k Stam, 14k magic.....2200 magic recovery. Sap/ funnel health works fine. The heals from it are very strong. I couldn't see going with less Stam to gain more magic. You still need it to block and the recovery works well.