Cradle of Shadows.....

saremun · March 2017

Hi everyone!

So i have been queued THREE days to be able to play the dungeon "Cradle of Shadows" and got in one group only which disbanded right away because the other dd had only 16k health...How the hell can i get the set of Veldrath if people don't even want to queue to the dungeon?

Already asked my guild and they started crying and complaining about the dame dungeon, i mean is it suppose to be this hard that people don't even want to do it? is this the intended gameplay?

Iam just asking, iam playing in EU server btw...

DHale · March 2017

But wait I read on the forum people have infinite sustain and resources so the content should be easy. Oh right it's not a pug dungeon. Hope that helped.

Danksta · March 2017

Yes, it is intended to be one of the few difficult dungeons.

saremun · March 2017

Danksta wrote: »

Yes, it is intended to be one of the few difficult dungeons.

To be difficult is one thing but undoable is another, for pug groups this seems not even on the map, i mean 3 days in queue and not even a dame chance to do it is disgusting which is the least i can say right now...

casparian · March 2017

saremun wrote: »

Danksta wrote: »

Yes, it is intended to be one of the few difficult dungeons.

To be difficult is one thing but undoable is another, for pug groups this seems not even on the map, i mean 3 days in queue and not even a dame chance to do it is disgusting which is the least i can say right now...

It being a difficult dungeon is the reason it is near-undoable for PUG groups. A dungeon a PUG can manage is not one that's going to satisfy the significant portion of players who want challenging PVE content. It sounds like you might need to join a guild whose purpose is to run challenging PVE content.

byrness · March 2017

I'm having the same problem on PS4 au.
I'm cp200 and if I do get into the dungeon I get kick before even starting it.
Really getting over it I think there kicking me cause I'm cp200 I'm a dps and put out a lot of it. I'm got huntings rage all divine, ring and necklace all weapon damage.
I just want a chance to prove myself then if I'm doing *** kick me.
What flat form u on?

saremun · March 2017

casparian wrote: »

saremun wrote: »

Danksta wrote: »

Yes, it is intended to be one of the few difficult dungeons.

To be difficult is one thing but undoable is another, for pug groups this seems not even on the map, i mean 3 days in queue and not even a dame chance to do it is disgusting which is the least i can say right now...

It being a difficult dungeon is the reason it is near-undoable for PUG groups. A dungeon a PUG can manage is not one that's going to satisfy the significant portion of players who want challenging PVE content. It sounds like you might need to join a guild whose purpose is to run challenging PVE content.

Tryed to do that but they require cp of 600 and most of them take at least 300 and for a guy with 234 it just sounds a long shot..

While iam writing this reply there was a group asking for 500 cp LOL, this is the dame problem, either they ask for high cp or you don't even get in a dame qeue and get in dungeon...

This has to change, the fact that the pugs can't play it(which is majorty of players not the 1 % of elite hardcore) is a bad gameplay design...

Danksta · March 2017

saremun wrote: »

casparian wrote: »

saremun wrote: »

Danksta wrote: »

Yes, it is intended to be one of the few difficult dungeons.

To be difficult is one thing but undoable is another, for pug groups this seems not even on the map, i mean 3 days in queue and not even a dame chance to do it is disgusting which is the least i can say right now...

It being a difficult dungeon is the reason it is near-undoable for PUG groups. A dungeon a PUG can manage is not one that's going to satisfy the significant portion of players who want challenging PVE content. It sounds like you might need to join a guild whose purpose is to run challenging PVE content.

Tryed to do that but they require cp of 600 and most of them take at least 300 and for a guy with 234 it just sounds a long shot..

While iam writing this reply there was a group asking for 500 cp LOL, this is the dame problem, either they ask for high cp or you don't even get in a dame qeue and get in dungeon...

This has to change, the fact that the pugs can't play it(which is majorty of players not the 1 % of elite hardcore) is a bad gameplay design...

Not everyone is looking to snore their way through content.

saremun · March 2017

Danksta wrote: »

saremun wrote: »

casparian wrote: »

saremun wrote: »

Danksta wrote: »

Yes, it is intended to be one of the few difficult dungeons.

To be difficult is one thing but undoable is another, for pug groups this seems not even on the map, i mean 3 days in queue and not even a dame chance to do it is disgusting which is the least i can say right now...

It being a difficult dungeon is the reason it is near-undoable for PUG groups. A dungeon a PUG can manage is not one that's going to satisfy the significant portion of players who want challenging PVE content. It sounds like you might need to join a guild whose purpose is to run challenging PVE content.

Tryed to do that but they require cp of 600 and most of them take at least 300 and for a guy with 234 it just sounds a long shot..

While iam writing this reply there was a group asking for 500 cp LOL, this is the dame problem, either they ask for high cp or you don't even get in a dame qeue and get in dungeon...

This has to change, the fact that the pugs can't play it(which is majorty of players not the 1 % of elite hardcore) is a bad gameplay design...

Not everyone is looking to snore their way through content.

And not everyone wants to rot in a queue only to play a freaking dungeon...

Magdalina · March 2017

It's a...challenging dungeon. It's not so much about BiS sets and 50k dps as it is about teamwork and good situational awareness, especially on last boss. Which is something insanely difficult to get in pugs. To give you the idea, I pug dungeons a lot. I'll even pug vet WGT and ICP because it can be fun to show new people the ropes and whatnot. I would NOT pug Cradle of Shadows. It would not be fun, like, at all.
It's very heavy on mechanics so I'd advise ANYONE against pugging it tbh, let alone on their first run. You'd have to be relying on people not just familiar/good enough with mechanics themselves, but willing to explain them to you and wipe patiently as you learn, and that's even less likely.

I'd say you need to find a guild. You mentioned your guild doesn't like it, try getting into a slightly more "serious" PvE guild then. A lot of people farm these dungeons now because of the new motifs dropping there. Granted not all of them would take an inexperienced person along but plenty of people would if you were willing to follow the lead and listen to the instructions. It's either that or try to make friends with people who (could) run it, like if you run into a great group in groupfinder(yes it does happen, albeit not often lol), try to friend them and then see if they'd perhaps be willing to give it a try with you. I'm afraid that's your only options, I'd strong advise against trying vet CoS with a pug even if you do find one willing to run it.

ForsakenSin · March 2017

i done this dungeon many times with the pug , at one time 2 people left cos they died like 4 times at one of the boss the room boss guy that tank needs to run around and kill adds while he is invincible anyway they were cp 570 so it was me DPS 600 and another guy healer cp 400 .. i posted in chat guild and i got two one was cp 230 and another cp 300 and i thought... ok lets see how we do... we finished it without problem

and yes still no medium devines damm it but what i am trying to say its not about cp points its about people and skills .. you can be cp 600 with VO divins but if you keep on standing in red and dying you are useless

its good when you got a team that can communicate and talk ... for the last boss it helps if you are magica to intercept the stamina balls and if you are stamina to intercept magica balls

and yhea it dose take a very very long time to find a group finder if you dps for CoS this is why i have a healer its faster to get in dungeons. And i do wish many people would play CoS and not quit or give up because the content is hard i mean really come on! games should be challenging and not a cake walk

byrness · March 2017

I still haven't even been able to try the dungeon with pugs.
I have been watching walk throughs on YouTube to try and get a understanding of the mechanics.
I'll probably drop a pvp guild and add another pve.

saremun · March 2017

Magdalina wrote: »

It's a...challenging dungeon. It's not so much about BiS sets and 50k dps as it is about teamwork and good situational awareness, especially on last boss. Which is something insanely difficult to get in pugs. To give you the idea, I pug dungeons a lot. I'll even pug vet WGT and ICP because it can be fun to show new people the ropes and whatnot. I would NOT pug Cradle of Shadows. It would not be fun, like, at all.
It's very heavy on mechanics so I'd advise ANYONE against pugging it tbh, let alone on their first run. You'd have to be relying on people not just familiar/good enough with mechanics themselves, but willing to explain them to you and wipe patiently as you learn, and that's even less likely.

I'd say you need to find a guild. You mentioned your guild doesn't like it, try getting into a slightly more "serious" PvE guild then. A lot of people farm these dungeons now because of the new motifs dropping there. Granted not all of them would take an inexperienced person along but plenty of people would if you were willing to follow the lead and listen to the instructions. It's either that or try to make friends with people who (could) run it, like if you run into a great group in groupfinder(yes it does happen, albeit not often lol), try to friend them and then see if they'd perhaps be willing to give it a try with you. I'm afraid that's your only options, I'd strong advise against trying vet CoS with a pug even if you do find one willing to run it.

Yeah it seems that is the only option to be honest, i just left my guild and applied to another waiting for their answer, but thanks for great information and input

Drummerx04 · March 2017

Three days? I hope that's an artistic exaggeration.

I've run vCoS HM a lot since homestead, and most of those runs were done with the same 6 or so people. If you really want to improve your worth as a player and lower your wait times, then you should make a tank or healer build for your character as well. My first time through vCoS (didn't even look up the mechanics) was as a magsorc tank, so don't let your class get you down.

Otherwise, as suggested above, join regular vet pledge groups. When you are with one that kicks the crap out of your pledges, suggest that they come try Cradle. Make friends, expand your sphere of influence, and before you know it you'll have a circle of dependable players to call upon.

Magdalina · March 2017

saremun wrote: »

Magdalina wrote: »

It's a...challenging dungeon. It's not so much about BiS sets and 50k dps as it is about teamwork and good situational awareness, especially on last boss. Which is something insanely difficult to get in pugs. To give you the idea, I pug dungeons a lot. I'll even pug vet WGT and ICP because it can be fun to show new people the ropes and whatnot. I would NOT pug Cradle of Shadows. It would not be fun, like, at all.
It's very heavy on mechanics so I'd advise ANYONE against pugging it tbh, let alone on their first run. You'd have to be relying on people not just familiar/good enough with mechanics themselves, but willing to explain them to you and wipe patiently as you learn, and that's even less likely.

I'd say you need to find a guild. You mentioned your guild doesn't like it, try getting into a slightly more "serious" PvE guild then. A lot of people farm these dungeons now because of the new motifs dropping there. Granted not all of them would take an inexperienced person along but plenty of people would if you were willing to follow the lead and listen to the instructions. It's either that or try to make friends with people who (could) run it, like if you run into a great group in groupfinder(yes it does happen, albeit not often lol), try to friend them and then see if they'd perhaps be willing to give it a try with you. I'm afraid that's your only options, I'd strong advise against trying vet CoS with a pug even if you do find one willing to run it.

Yeah it seems that is the only option to be honest, i just left my guild and applied to another waiting for their answer, but thanks for great information and input

Good luck!:) Hope it works for you. I'm on PC NA so can't help you there unfortunately.
Feel free to ask here if you have any mechanics questions or anything lateron, vet CoS can be pretty overwhelming on first try.

saremun · March 2017

Drummerx04 wrote: »

Three days? I hope that's an artistic exaggeration.

I've run vCoS HM a lot since homestead, and most of those runs were done with the same 6 or so people. If you really want to improve your worth as a player and lower your wait times, then you should make a tank or healer build for your character as well. My first time through vCoS (didn't even look up the mechanics) was as a magsorc tank, so don't let your class get you down.

Otherwise, as suggested above, join regular vet pledge groups. When you are with one that kicks the crap out of your pledges, suggest that they come try Cradle. Make friends, expand your sphere of influence, and before you know it you'll have a circle of dependable players to call upon.

Three days sounds a lot right? what do you think i came here for?

So if people play tanks and healers who would be dps then?

But yeah it seems the only solution is to join a PVE dedicated guild...

jroc699_burr · March 2017

im on ps4 NA i can tank it or dps if you need sir

Upright_man · March 2017

I got this as a random dungeon twice just last night and absolutely smashed it out both times because i know the mechanics and can explain them to pugs.

I was on a lvl 35 character.

1st boss: draw into the light, dps like crazy and switch to other light when the current one goes out.

2nd boss: draw boss into the light. make sure you interrupt every time after he teleports and have one dps turn on braziers as soon as they go out. If tank has charge this shouldnt be an issue.

3rd: Dont stand in his aoe, fairly straightforward tank and spank.

4th: Tank cannot afford to die here. Dont stand in the AOE, Watch for whirlwind skill if your melee dps. Boss uses Ambush type skill and leaves fire aoe on each member (one after the other) then summons two Ads to chain one team mate down while the boss heavy attacks. Shield bash both ads and everyone move out of the way of the heavy attack. When he glows orange/lava looking then adds spawn around the room, kill them and walk over the orbs they drop to remove his shield. final phase will have red nukes flying around the room. stand far from the statue and continue as per above situations arise.

5th Boss: 3 different colour orbs, Red damages hp, green takes your stam, blue your mana. Ads will spawn, Flesh Atro's are a priority as they drop the light you need for the next part which is a maze. stay together as a group around the person holding the torch and walk through the maze back to the boss (can use map to see fastest path from your position in Normal mode)
Every so often boss locks one person down and steals their ultimate, nothing too big to worry about until she tells you not to move a muscle and a green circle appears beneath your feet. 2 things happen, damage if you dont stay still for a certain period of time then after that a spike comes from underneath you and destroys you.

GG CoS.

Drummerx04 · March 2017

saremun wrote: »

Three days sounds a lot right? what do you think i came here for?

So if people play tanks and healers who would be dps then?

But yeah it seems the only solution is to join a PVE dedicated guild...

Okay, the solution is pretty complicated, so bear through this lengthy explanation.

If groups usually need a tank/healer, then you go as a tank/healer. If they need a dps, you go as a dps. Queue for every role you can actually do... and the queue will not take long, and no one will get upset that a *** dps queued as a tank again. If everyone queues for two roles that they can actually do well, then queues will be shorter and we can finally stop complaining about the group finder.

Upright_man · March 2017

Drummerx04 wrote: »

saremun wrote: »

Three days sounds a lot right? what do you think i came here for?

So if people play tanks and healers who would be dps then?

But yeah it seems the only solution is to join a PVE dedicated guild...

Okay, the solution is pretty complicated, so bear through this lengthy explanation.

If groups usually need a tank/healer, then you go as a tank/healer. If they need a dps, you go as a dps. Queue for every role you can actually do... and the queue will not take long, and no one will get upset that a *** dps queued as a tank again. If everyone queues for two roles that they can actually do well, then queues will be shorter and we can finally stop complaining about the group finder.

Nevermind the length of the queue, the group finder in general is just in such a bad place right now. Forms groups but doesnt tp you to dungeon, or tp's you in then removes you from dungeon and makes you re-queue.. all kinds of craziness. had people ask why they got kicked when there was no vote to kick and the person was seemingly just removed from the group for no reason.. Added ready check, further broke the system lol. "Fixed"

Trihugger · March 2017

Just as a general disclaimer here, you can't fault people for wanting high CP for this hell-hole. Imagine what you will, the 350-400 CP they have you guys in your mid 200's is a BIG deal, both in damage AND general toughness.

IMO it is perfectly fair to say "Not tall enough to ride this ride" with the Hist DLC dungeons. They really are that dirty.

Magdalina · March 2017

Trihugger wrote: »

Just as a general disclaimer here, you can't fault people for wanting high CP for this hell-hole. Imagine what you will, the 350-400 CP they have you guys in your mid 200's is a BIG deal, both in damage AND general toughness.

IMO it is perfectly fair to say "Not tall enough to ride this ride" with the Hist DLC dungeons. They really are that dirty.

I can't think of a single mechanic in Cradle that's a dps race, let alone one so high you'd need 600 cp to do it. I mean obviously faster stuff dies, easier it is, but the damage increase several hundred cp are gonna give you is not gonna save you. You will still get banished to catacombs and have to find your way out. You will still have to avoid/purge/deal with spores. You will still get oneshot by aoes if you don't block/shield/dodge. You will still need to bash Veli if someone dies so they can be ressed.

What you do need from people to complete is is good situational awareness, teamwork, fast reaction and everyone doing their roles. Good heals, good tanking, good dps("good" not meaning 40-50k). Low cp often does mean lack of experience and people not being used to doing all/any of the above which would be bad but the cp alone wouldn't solve it. The thing with "600 cp only" is that these are often people who have kind of "finished their game" so spend most of their time running challenging content, hence being used to it. "200 cp" often means it's someone still in the middle of their questing(nothing wrong with that of course, it just isn't something that teaches you teamwork and all that good stuff) and isn't used to having to be alert ti oneshot and whatnot 100% of the fight while still doing your role. But it's far often not so, I've seen some cp 200 Dro m"athra Destroyer and some absolutely clueless cp 600. You could say vet Cradle requires more experienced/alert players, but not excslusively players with highest cp.

GilGalad · March 2017

It is called Cradle of Cancer in our guild.
Even though we could do it without problems it is just not fun. The mechanics are sooo RNG dependent, especially when doing the hardmode, that even the best groups can just wipe. It feels like they took every annoying mechanic they came up with since launch and combine it into one dungeon...

kylewwefan · March 2017

Cradle and Mazzatun are tough dungeons....especially for a pug. The group finder will likely set you up for failure. It's alright for normal, which you should run quite a few times to really hammer out the mechanics and know what to do. These dungeons are very heavy into following mechanics.

It's like a mini trial. You really need a fully fledged tank, healer, strong DPS and good communication. Even then, things can still fall short.

Drummerx04 · March 2017

GilGalad wrote: »

It is called Cradle of Cancer in our guild.
Even though we could do it without problems it is just not fun. The mechanics are sooo RNG dependent, especially when doing the hardmode, that even the best groups can just wipe. It feels like they took every annoying mechanic they came up with since launch and combine it into one dungeon...

Pretty much every mechanic in that dungeon can be almost entirely mitigated with a reasonable strategy. About the only thing that catches me off guard any more is the statue aoe blast because I have a hard time seeing it with the atro light.

s7732425ub17_ESO · March 2017

It's way more pugable than VROM. VCOS has lots of mechanics that test individual player skill versus group coordination, so it's much easier to do without voice chat.

Magdalina · March 2017

Drummerx04 wrote: »

GilGalad wrote: »

It is called Cradle of Cancer in our guild.
Even though we could do it without problems it is just not fun. The mechanics are sooo RNG dependent, especially when doing the hardmode, that even the best groups can just wipe. It feels like they took every annoying mechanic they came up with since launch and combine it into one dungeon...

Pretty much every mechanic in that dungeon can be almost entirely mitigated with a reasonable strategy. About the only thing that catches me off guard any more is the statue aoe blast because I have a hard time seeing it with the atro light.

If you're a magicka build, do use Annulment. When I'm healing it I have pretty much 100% uptime of Annulment. I SPAM it if I have to, I've barely been dying there since I started doing it. I simply don't have the stamina to dodge that sh...thing and I'm not gonna leave my people without heals because of some silly statue deciding to blow me a kiss

If I block and Annulment, the orb of spite barely budges my health. If I just Annulment it does maybe half of my health damage but is still not a one-shot unless it procs twice.

Also in my run just yesterday someone came up with very sensible idea of fighting Veli by the wall opposite to the statue so the totem spite has to travel longer distance to get there and you have more time to react and I've actually found it a bit easier indeed

Hope that helps. Generally I've found that even though a lot of things are rng dependent, they can well be mitigated by proper strategy. For example when you end up in the catacombs, if it's the last door that's open it sucks, however there's no reason that you should die to it. Ideally you should take the slightly "longer" route through the back corridor and go all doors in order from right to left or from left to right(like if doors are 1234, go 1234, not 21234) so you don't have to backtrack and face hoarvor. I haven't died once carrying the light since I figured that one out.

Myyth · March 2017

Cradle of shadows is on my "instant quit dungeon list"

If I queue up for a random and I see the cradle of shadows loading screen, I instantly quit group as soon as I zone in. Same as Ruins of Mazzatun. The mechanics are awful. It really isn't worth the hassle.

keebler119 · March 2017

Amusingly, I've been trying to PUG this achievement for 6+ months. I've completed vCoS but haven't even sniffed hm, speed, or no death.

It's forced me to become more active in my guilds to try to recruit competent players. No luck yet but I know lots in my PvE guilds have done it... I just need to convince them to carry me through. PC/NA Dps cp 500+

yodased · March 2017

If you need this or any dungeon achievement and you are PC/NA, hit me up. This is what my guild is built for, to get you through the tough times and get those purty skins

Can also hit up @shunravi or @heroofnone both original members that have 1,000's of runs under their belt.