@Prive
Yup simply pathetic how ZOS handles that.

But you know why actually fix a problem if you instead silence the ones bringing it to attantion?
Standard ZOS. Find an easy workaround that barely works instead of actually fixing the problem.

IcyDeadPeople wrote: »

Are they just at dolmens? Haven't encountered any bots at all during the past couple years since launch. I assume this is because the only dolmens I visit are in Cyrodiil.

PC they are all over in trains farming. There are various forums threads about this with screenshots.

Console they're more limited to rubberband use due to the format (from my knowledge).

@Lieblingsjunge

Lieblingsjunge wrote: »

People that bought from bots have been banned, some, anyway.

Whoa, what? Explain a bit more detail please? I ask because my first knee jerk reaction is: If I buy something from guild and it's by a bot, I could get banned?

parkham wrote: »

@Lieblingsjunge

Lieblingsjunge wrote: »

People that bought from bots have been banned, some, anyway.

Whoa, what? Explain a bit more detail please? I ask because my first knee jerk reaction is: If I buy something from guild and it's by a bot, I could get banned?

No. The difference is: Some people have deals with various bot-nets, so they buy tons and tonsof cheap stuff over a longer period of time.

Violynne wrote: »

Kodrac wrote: »

"If it doesn't effect me personally I don't care." Great attitude to have. You do realize you are part of a community don't you?

I do realize it, but what you don't seem to understand is the community hasn't made a strong case how botting affects it as a whole.

The biggest complaint I see is about the "devaluation" of a gold from a game that hands out gold coins like candy. I've also seen people complain against this very "community" when its members attack them for selling items "below cost", thus "ruining" the "market".

Have you seen the prices of guild stores? RIDICULOUSLY STUPID PRICE GOUGING, and this coming from a "community" complaining about botting.

The second-most complaint are "farmers", whether it be for exp or mats to sell at low levels. Again, how does this affect the community other than many complaining they can no longer sell iron ores for 1000 gold each?

If you want my personal opinion on the matter, I'm glad botters are forcing price drops. Someone had to do it, because the community sure won't do it.

As for the "security" of the game, this isn't even an issue of "botting" to begin with, as this takes the issue well outside of the game. No company can ever protect their system 100%, but for those who are generally concerned about breaches, remove your personal info from the site if you're not satisfied security is sufficient. ZoS only knows me as "Violynne", and it's going to stay this way (thanks to breaches of too many sites to name).

Security is YOUR responsibility first. Give ONLY what you want and NEVER give more than you need. Not just this site, but every site.

As much as this is going to hurt to read, I see more damage being done by the "community" than I do botters. Zergs, exploiters, and price gouging just to name a few.

Botters are the problem? Meh.

@Violynne

I understand where you are coming from. As for you, these players do not infect your gameplay.

Now, let's place it in another point of view; Trading.
I'll try to keep this short, but can't promise.

These bots, are people with multiple accounts, farming hundred thousands of raw materials everyday. It's massive, they can sell it fast for a low price. (FYI, im on PC/EU, current prices for wax = 4.7K and alloys = 6-6.3K ea in the major guild stores)
Yes, I agree, cheap prices for mats are great. more people can effort them which is not a bad thing per se.

But there's also a community in this game that likes to trade. And it DOES effect their gameplay. Cuz how's going to buy from a trader, when these bots are selling everything under priced?

Again, i see your argumentation. And yes, you have a point. But just because it does not effect your gameplay, doesn't mean it doesn't effect others.

Prive wrote: »

Lieblingsjunge wrote: »

parkham wrote: »

@Lieblingsjunge

Lieblingsjunge wrote: »

People that bought from bots have been banned, some, anyway.

Whoa, what? Explain a bit more detail please? I ask because my first knee jerk reaction is: If I buy something from guild and it's by a bot, I could get banned?

No. The difference is: Some people have deals with various bot-nets, so they buy tons and tonsof cheap stuff over a longer period of time.

@Lieblingsjunge

You are right.
But it also doesn't matter. Cuz wether this bot is selling to 1 person, or to 25 persons a day.. these items will still hit the market at those low prices.

Your solution is a band-aid. not a fix.

I never said anything else, either. Banning the buyers with bot-net deals won't solve the issue, no. But it's in line with Zenimax' re-active attitude towards botting, instead of a pro-active one. Well, it's the same for a lot of games. It's easier to deal with an issue when it becomes a problem, than dealing with it when it's just a possibility to become a problem. Re-active attitudes stronk. (If I would do this while teaching, I would've been rekt, multiple times.)

Prive wrote: »

I understand where you are coming from. As for you, these players do not infect your gameplay.

Now, let's place it in another point of view; Trading.
I'll try to keep this short, but can't promise.

These bots, are people with multiple accounts, farming hundred thousands of raw materials everyday. It's massive, they can sell it fast for a low price. (FYI, im on PC/EU, current prices for wax = 4.7K and alloys = 6-6.3K ea in the major guild stores)
Yes, I agree, cheap prices for mats are great. more people can effort them which is not a bad thing per se.

But there's also a community in this game that likes to trade. And it DOES effect their gameplay. Cuz how's going to buy from a trader, when these bots are selling everything under priced?

Again, i see your argumentation. And yes, you have a point. But just because it does not effect your gameplay, doesn't mean it doesn't effect others.

Do you see the problem with your own argument? You're basically stating that bots are "ruining" the gold "market". I'm sorry, but this isn't a valid defense.

To put this another way: what's to stop the majority of the community from dropping their prices because they feel the greed is getting out of hand? Nothing, and that's where I sit, because I'm not looking at this from a "bot" perspective, but from the "player" perspective.

Now, I have to add a caveat here: I'm not greedy. Never have been in my entire life. Recently, I sold 3 Dwemer purple motifs in my guild for 10k each (final price to me was 9300, after fees). I'm fine with that. I didn't sell it to earn gold as much as I did to give every player, of every level equal chance to obtain these rare motifs.

In addition, when I complete a collection of every blue motif, I head to Khennarth's Roost and meet new players, and give away the books for the price of an iron ore, or bottle of water, or anything else of little value to the new player. I even take white armor or weapons, after I help them understand why they don't need them.

A few weeks ago, I had 3 or 4 copies of the Barbaric motifs. Gave them away. Sure, I could have easily have sold them, but I'd rather they go to someone who'd appreciate them and teach them what they're for (and how to find more).

Rue the day anyone ever sends me a nastygram for doing what I believe is right for the community.

I absolutely refuse to be part of the greed machine. I'm sure there was a small risk someone bought those Dwemer motifs at a "steal" and then immediately resold them. But I don't care about that. Let them. If they can find someone willing to forgo their hard-earned gold for a motif at an inflated price, what business is of mine to challenge this.

If I were in it for the gold playing this game, then it wouldn't be fun for me to play. I enjoy meeting and teaching new players to the game, and I have zero problem giving away things people would crap a brick if they saw me doing. The next time I get a soul shriven motif, someone in the game is going to be very, very excited because it'll be free to them.

So does this help you understand my position, especially in regard to the community?

Botters mean nothing to me. For those few who remember me helping them out on Khennarthi's Roost, I'm quite sure they're better players for it, before they find out how cruel the community can be.

I'd rather see more players like me than those upset botters are destroying their "trading" value.

Oh, and one more thing: trading isn't the same as selling, to me. When you trade, it's because you want an item someone else has while I have an item they want. No gold in trades, on my part.

Turelus wrote: »

ifDoubtNerfIt wrote: »

Quigster wrote: »

I have a very low tolerance for this type of activity. First occurrence, 90 day account suspension. Second occurrence within one year of reinstatement, account perma-ban. Any other account found botting or gold selling at same IP address, perma-ban by IP address. The people who play by the rules, regardless of whether or not they sub, should never be affected by cheaters / griefers.

IP bans are worthless in EU, because 99% of ISPs in the EU have dynamic IP addresses which means, every 24h you get a new IP address. Better ban on the evidence of the MAC address for example.

I wish I could say if they kept up the bans fast enough then they'd at least keep buying the game, but from what other companies have said in security talks the people doing it normally just use stolen credit card information any way (sometimes from their own customers).

The people doing real botting (not rubberband levelling) are normally in it to make money as a business, they don't have a damn about anything else including their customers.

I do wonder if the rubberband levelling is a paid for service or it's just players thinking they can do it for easy levelling.

As I said before: I would love to see that ZoS starts to legally prosecute the botters.

Violynne wrote: »

Prive wrote: »

I understand where you are coming from. As for you, these players do not infect your gameplay.

Now, let's place it in another point of view; Trading.
I'll try to keep this short, but can't promise.

These bots, are people with multiple accounts, farming hundred thousands of raw materials everyday. It's massive, they can sell it fast for a low price. (FYI, im on PC/EU, current prices for wax = 4.7K and alloys = 6-6.3K ea in the major guild stores)
Yes, I agree, cheap prices for mats are great. more people can effort them which is not a bad thing per se.

But there's also a community in this game that likes to trade. And it DOES effect their gameplay. Cuz how's going to buy from a trader, when these bots are selling everything under priced?

Again, i see your argumentation. And yes, you have a point. But just because it does not effect your gameplay, doesn't mean it doesn't effect others.

Do you see the problem with your own argument? You're basically stating that bots are "ruining" the gold "market". I'm sorry, but this isn't a valid defense.

To put this another way: what's to stop the majority of the community from dropping their prices because they feel the greed is getting out of hand? Nothing, and that's where I sit, because I'm not looking at this from a "bot" perspective, but from the "player" perspective.

Now, I have to add a caveat here: I'm not greedy. Never have been in my entire life. Recently, I sold 3 Dwemer purple motifs in my guild for 10k each (final price to me was 9300, after fees). I'm fine with that. I didn't sell it to earn gold as much as I did to give every player, of every level equal chance to obtain these rare motifs.

In addition, when I complete a collection of every blue motif, I head to Khennarth's Roost and meet new players, and give away the books for the price of an iron ore, or bottle of water, or anything else of little value to the new player. I even take white armor or weapons, after I help them understand why they don't need them.

A few weeks ago, I had 3 or 4 copies of the Barbaric motifs. Gave them away. Sure, I could have easily have sold them, but I'd rather they go to someone who'd appreciate them and teach them what they're for (and how to find more).

Rue the day anyone ever sends me a nastygram for doing what I believe is right for the community.

I absolutely refuse to be part of the greed machine. I'm sure there was a small risk someone bought those Dwemer motifs at a "steal" and then immediately resold them. But I don't care about that. Let them. If they can find someone willing to forgo their hard-earned gold for a motif at an inflated price, what business is of mine to challenge this.

If I were in it for the gold playing this game, then it wouldn't be fun for me to play. I enjoy meeting and teaching new players to the game, and I have zero problem giving away things people would crap a brick if they saw me doing. The next time I get a soul shriven motif, someone in the game is going to be very, very excited because it'll be free to them.

So does this help you understand my position, especially in regard to the community?

Botters mean nothing to me. For those few who remember me helping them out on Khennarthi's Roost, I'm quite sure they're better players for it, before they find out how cruel the community can be.

I'd rather see more players like me than those upset botters are destroying their "trading" value.

Oh, and one more thing: trading isn't the same as selling, to me. When you trade, it's because you want an item someone else has while I have an item they want. No gold in trades, on my part.

see bolted in quote. so far "your" way of being in a community.
That speech totally didn't read as a solo-minded guy. You obviously think about how other people are playing this game.

And for a real reply;
As you can read, I've even admitted to see where you are coming from. But your way of playing this game, is not the way for everybody to play this game. Might not be fun for you, but it's the truth.

We need to destroy their hub, or somehow jam the resurrection ships.

Bots should be banned.

Would love to see an event like GW1.
In that game, a giant end game boss, Dhuum would pop out of the ground and use his scythe on the character, killing it and the account would get disconnected (banned). Everyone knew when it happened.

Could do the same in this game with Molag Bal or another one of the Daedric gods.

I remember a game where it was possible to grief bots, as it was open PVP everywhere outside of towns. Of course killing the bots outright made you red or chaotic, and if another player killed you, you could drop items and even equipment. Another way you could drop items and equipment was if you were killed by PVE mobs. So what we would do, we would find bots, easy to find as they had jibberish names and were obviously on some kind of script or macro. If they were fighting Festering Bats as an example that auto aggro on you, I'd pull about 100 of these things and circle around the bot, next time the bot would hit the target, all the mobs I pulled would social aggro on the bot and would be overwhelmed. After the bot died, mobs would reset and I'd take anything dropped by the bot. Bot would later come back to the same exact spot, and begin the script again. Over time you could literally pick them of all their equipment and everything in their inventory they were trying to farm by training them. But then later they patched the game, so you could no longer, "Train" people as it was called. Nor did the developers ever do anything to fix the botting, which was so bad, every place was infested with them.

You will never and should never see changes. If they are explaining how they block bots it will be easier for people to come up with ways around those fixes.

ZoS just rarely bans bots, they only ban the accounts that actually sell gold.
There are bots running around with more CP than most people in this game will ever achieve.