Can someone pls explain me, why are Warlord and Magician CP stars being changed/nerfed?

altemriel · March 2017

The title says it, can someone pls explain me this non-sense change, ZOS is planning to do in June with Morrowind expansion?

It makes no sense....

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/328864/warlord-and-magician-cp-being-removed-in-morrowind/p1

This post is not a ZOS-shaming tread, I just want to hear the arguments for that

@ZOS_GinaBruno @ZOS_KaiSchober @ZOS_RichLambert @ZOS_MattFiror

Cadbury · March 2017

Something about a raised floor and a lowered ceiling. Basically architecture.

LordGavus · March 2017

I think the idea is to reduce high damage, high sustain builds. Tying to make it more of a choice between the 2.

Draqone · March 2017

Because most endgame high-DPS builds right now can ignore any regen which means all regen foods/enchants and sets are next to worthless.

The CPs allow DDs to dish out high, constant DPS without many/any regen options which is why high damage, no-regen sets like BSW are so popular, and Zenimax want to change that.

Turelus · March 2017

Rich said on ESO live they're not happy that resource management has basically been removed because of CP.

They want to try and get back to a point where management of resources is part of the games tactical play (it was one of the original game design points).

He said nothing is final yet, it's all in testing.

We also don't know if what other changes to gear or content will happen along side this, until we have the full picture it's hard to say if it's good or bad.

Also writing this in a bus bombing down a county road and bouncing about is horrible.

Enslaved · March 2017

They are removed so non elite players might not complete any trial, That way end game PvE stays away from all but elitists, making general population "WeStillHaveSomethingToAchieve". Elitists remain elitists, so they are happy, too. And Zos don't have to do anything, since "HurrDurrUHaventEvenCompletedvAAvDSAvHRvMOLvMASoWeDidntBotherMakingMoreEndgameContentHaveAConCrateInstead"

Also, "organised","skillful" zergs are also happy, since now it takes 2x more ppl to kill them than before, making lag even greater.

Albino_Dunmer · March 2017

I'm all for it assuming that they'll adjust things accordingly. DPS races are part of the issue imo. Nearly all builds are funneled into the same few green CP options. That of their respective resource reduction and resource recovery. Sustain sets are hardly used and for good reason. There is little reason to utilize them when you can sustain well enough on your own while dealing the maximum damage possible.

Now if they don't scale things accordingly, they'll damn near *** up their game in a single go.

Agalloch · March 2017

If this will happen .. elitist players will become more elitists.

The vet trials will be only for elitists.

The rest of the players base will stuck on the normal ones.

vMA also will become harder.

That's it .

Nerfing players is the worst decision ever made by a mmo developer . Too bad, because ESO is great game ...but ZOS don't play their own game..

English is not my native language.

Albino_Dunmer · March 2017

Nerfing players definitely isn't the worst decision ever made by an MMO developer, but I understand your frustration.

ifDoubtNerfIt · March 2017

altemriel wrote: »

The title says it, can someone pls explain me this non-sense change, ZOS is planning to do in June with Morrowind expansion?

It makes no sense....

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/328864/warlord-and-magician-cp-being-removed-in-morrowind/p1

They said in ESO live that they don't want the game to head the way it heads. The game is dependent on CP trees and they don't like it, you can completly ignore your regen and go with full dps (dmg glyphs on jewelry and weapons).
I mean, dps'es literally have ~720 stam/mag regen, like wtf? (some even lower)
They even said that this is the 'first' step on the "fix-eso" whiteboard.
I personally welcome this way they want ESO to go. And yes, I'm a magicka "elitist" dps who only has vMoL left in his vTrials path to complete. Finally the game is going the more intelligent way of play.

LordGavus wrote: »

I think the idea is to reduce high damage, high sustain builds. Tying to make it more of a choice between the 2.

Think you could go with both. For example BSW + Bloodthorn for example, for magicka.

Enslaved wrote: »

They are removed so non elite players might not complete any trial, That way end game PvE stays away from all but elitists, making general population "WeStillHaveSomethingToAchieve". Elitists remain elitists, so they are happy, too. And Zos don't have to do anything, since "HurrDurrUHaventEvenCompletedvAAvDSAvHRvMOLvMASoWeDidntBotherMakingMoreEndgameContentHaveAConCrateInstead"

Also, "organised","skillful" zergs are also happy, since now it takes 2x more ppl to kill them than before, making lag even greater.

*hands out my tinfoil hat to you*
You need it more than me.

MLGProPlayer · March 2017

Power creep.

The game is simply too easy right now. The high CP cap ensures that everyone is invincible, can deal astronomical damage, and doesn't have to worry about resources.

The game desperately needs a re-design of the CP system if they plan to continue increasing the cap. There is no cost/benefit to assigning CP points. You can have everything without giving anything up.

ifDoubtNerfIt · March 2017

MLGProPlayer wrote: »

Power creep.

The game is simply too easy right now. The high CP cap ensures that everyone is invincible, can deal astronomical damage, and doesn't have to worry about resources.

The game desperately needs a re-design of the CP system if they plan to continue increasing the cap. There is no cost/benefit to assigning CP points. You can have everything without giving anything up.

Not to mention those "LFM 3xDD's; I'm tank for vRoM HM SR NDR GodRun" or "LFM <insert role here> for flower farming cp3265189473240+ required"

xSkullfox · March 2017

ifDoubtNerfIt wrote: »

MLGProPlayer wrote: »

Power creep.

The game is simply too easy right now. The high CP cap ensures that everyone is invincible, can deal astronomical damage, and doesn't have to worry about resources.

The game desperately needs a re-design of the CP system if they plan to continue increasing the cap. There is no cost/benefit to assigning CP points. You can have everything without giving anything up.

Not to mention those "LFM 3xDD's; I'm tank for vRoM HM SR NDR GodRun" or "LFM <insert role here> for flower farming cp3265189473240+ required"

ZOS always says play like you want so ?

I sure understand what you mean, but wasting my time searching 30min (or using the DF) more is faaaaaaaat tooooo loooooonnngggg.

Why using the hard way when you can do it easy with 3dds

Doing vDungeons HM only more with 3dds cause of the search time and the possibility of dying.

Publius_Scipio · March 2017

Nothing has been confirmed first of all. Don't forget that. The change is a sneak peek at possible major overhaul of skills and passives in order to bring more balance for all players across the board. With everything coming to fruition either with Morrowind launch or shortly thereafter.

Edit: Battlegrounds which is coming packaged with Morrowind is a big deal. And I am sure ZOS wants the best possible balance to go along with it.

Tempah · March 2017

I always run out of magicka if I don't have regen food. or support. so maybe instead of taking the cp regen away. look at other sets and skills that give magicka or increase regen to players. and maybe decrease this by a little bit.

Publius_Scipio · March 2017

Tempah wrote: »

I always run out of magicka if I don't have regen food. or support. so maybe instead of taking the cp regen away. look at other sets and skills that give magicka or increase regen to players. and maybe decrease this by a little bit.

ZOS will/is intentionally looking to knock regen down a bit for everyone I'd bet. In PvE of course it's simply nuke everything as fast as possible who cares. But in PvP, especially CP enabled PvP, regen is out of control and you have these superman builds running around. That's been frustrating for many.

Turelus · March 2017

For everyone complaining about how only elites will be able to complete content.

Once again (and I will use big easy letters).

WE HAVE SEEN ONLY ONE PART OF THIS CHANGE

We don't know what else will change in Morrowind and in future, if content becomes too challenging within the new balances then I am sure ZOS will take a pass at changing/balancing that as well.

If you're worried about "the elites" taking over then you should be happy about these changes, because it pushes the game back towards a place where more people can reach the peak damage/gear needed and further from BSW or GTFO.

Duiwel · March 2017

Because they like breaking things.

No one ever told em: "If it ain't broke don't fix it"

Asmael · March 2017

It's Zos' secret plan to buff nightblades in PvE by making everyone else run out of juice

ADarklore · March 2017

Tempah wrote: »

I always run out of magicka if I don't have regen food. or support. so maybe instead of taking the cp regen away. look at other sets and skills that give magicka or increase regen to players. and maybe decrease this by a little bit.

Are you running Cost Reduction in all three pieces of Jewelry or are you stacking damage glyphs? They are wanting to move people away from stacking damage glyphs and putting them into cost reduction for sustain... making them choose between high damage or better sustain.

Turelus · March 2017

Duiwel wrote: »

Because they like breaking things.

No one ever told em: "If it ain't broke don't fix it"

It is broken though, it's broken one of their games main design goals "manage resources" the problem is many in the community consider the broken game to be correct and the fix to be broken.

mr_wazzabi · March 2017

MLGProPlayer wrote: »

Power creep.

The game is simply too easy right now. The high CP cap ensures that everyone is invincible, can deal astronomical damage, and doesn't have to worry about resources.

The game desperately needs a re-design of the CP system if they plan to continue increasing the cap. There is no cost/benefit to assigning CP points. You can have everything without giving anything up.

If that's true, why does my stamblade still run out of stamina in vma with over 1300 stam recovery and 90 cp in warlord?

The game is too easy for the top 1% maybe, but not everyone else.

DurzoBlint13 · March 2017

LordGavus wrote: »

I think the idea is to reduce high damage, high sustain builds. Tying to make it more of a choice between the 2.

I think this is it too. People complained that they want a harder difficulty for end-game content, and this is ZOS's way of evening things out. Balanced builds will become more common as people become more focused on sustain instead of stacking everything into damage. Personally I think this is a good change in terms of balance. I would rather see other things buffed instead of nerfs but this will work to achieve the same goal.....just in a lazy way IMO. Anymore ZOS seems to me to be like an absentee landlord that just wants their rent without having to do anything that would stress them too much, and ignores your calls when something is broke.
The CP/cost nerf seems like it simply is the easiest thing they could think of that would reduce some of the insane damages numbers people are pulling now and force people to stop and think about what is more important to them- pure damage or a mix of damage and sustain.

ifDoubtNerfIt · March 2017

mr_wazzabi wrote: »

MLGProPlayer wrote: »

Power creep.

The game is simply too easy right now. The high CP cap ensures that everyone is invincible, can deal astronomical damage, and doesn't have to worry about resources.

The game desperately needs a re-design of the CP system if they plan to continue increasing the cap. There is no cost/benefit to assigning CP points. You can have everything without giving anything up.

If that's true, why does my stamblade still run out of stamina in vma with over 1300 stam recovery and 90 cp in warlord?

The game is too easy for the top 1% maybe, but not everyone else.

Get higher uptime on Siphoning Attacks.

Rev Rielle · March 2017

Something does need to be done, it's extremely imbalanaced at the moment.

Myerscod · March 2017

Because people made Templar troll builds that can't die and ZOS has blamed resource management on that. Because pvp > pve

Ep1kMalware · March 2017

Albino_Dunmer wrote: »

I'm all for it assuming that they'll adjust things accordingly. DPS races are part of the issue imo. Nearly all builds are funneled into the same few green CP options. That of their respective resource reduction and resource recovery. Sustain sets are hardly used and for good reason. There is little reason to utilize them when you can sustain well enough on your own while dealing the maximum damage possible.

Now if they don't scale things accordingly, they'll damn near *** up their game in a single go.

Sustain sets aren't used because they take a great idea, like essence thief, and floss their ass with it after eating badly cooked thai food.

Turelus · March 2017

Myerscod wrote: »

Because people made Templar troll builds that can't die and ZOS has blamed resource management on that. Because pvp > pve

But PvE is just as bad, how many people use cost reduction glyphs or regen in their set choice vs max stat/dmg/crit.

If they ever want more variety in builds they need to have a choice vs consequence and requirement for more mixed builds than "damage on everything, CP can handle my sustain"

I doubt this will be the only change if they're heading in that direction and should content become too hard they can balance it around requiring less damage. It's better to bring the tier back and balance then keep trying to balance around the power creep and requiring more and more specific pure damage builds.

Voxicity · March 2017

I'm actually really looking forward to these changes. I'm no elitist, but I have completed vMoL and the rest and pull pretty high dps but it's honestly boring running the exact same *** as everyone else. It is not the way the game was intended to be played, so I think it's gonna be fun figuring out how much recovery is needed personally to ensure high sustained dps.

mr_wazzabi · March 2017

ifDoubtNerfIt wrote: »

mr_wazzabi wrote: »

MLGProPlayer wrote: »

Power creep.

The game is simply too easy right now. The high CP cap ensures that everyone is invincible, can deal astronomical damage, and doesn't have to worry about resources.

The game desperately needs a re-design of the CP system if they plan to continue increasing the cap. There is no cost/benefit to assigning CP points. You can have everything without giving anything up.

If that's true, why does my stamblade still run out of stamina in vma with over 1300 stam recovery and 90 cp in warlord?

The game is too easy for the top 1% maybe, but not everyone else.

Get higher uptime on Siphoning Attacks.

Console. No buff timers. Vma needs 100% concentration on the mobs you're fighting and mechanics

technohic · March 2017

Bipolar around here. One minute it will be complaints of infinite shield stacking DPS and unkillable tanks. Next minute, overblown complaints when they start addressing it.

CP making you not have to focus on sustain makes stacking magicka, stam, damage or health a lot easier. It's why you don't see un killable tanks, huge shields in non CP campaigns as much. You get on occasionally but they eventually run out of resources and that's fine. Being a tank or a glass cannon is ok so long as it's not infinite. That's probably why they're not just singling out an ability at a time cause then you affect people who use it more within scope rather than build around it.