Dragonknight magicka tank for PvE?

Cloudless · March 2017

Title says it all.

I've been seeing a lot of stamina builds for DKs as tank in PvE, but even after Homestead I couldn't really find anyone talking about mDKs for that role (quite a lot of sword 'n board PvP DKs, but that's hardly new, though).
So... is anyone running one? Is it a bad idea, all in all? And if it is, how horrible it would be to go stam DK and tank as a Dunmer?

[Edit, for the sake of completeness: right now I'm running a sap tank and having lots of fun with it generally speaking, but the lack of CC can be a pain sometimes - especially when you end up in a group that pretty much expects the tank to be equipped with talons & chains.

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Liofa · March 2017

It is a bad idea for end-game . Tanking right now is all about supporting group . I can sum it up like this :

- High HP tanks give big Igneous Shields to group .
- High Stamina tanks give bigger heals with Vigor .

That's the only difference . Magicka tanks are able to heal themselves better but that is completely irrevelant since there are 2 dedicated healers in trials . I did Magicka tanking as well . Spamming Burning Embers with correct CP , potions and buffs can make you heal yourself like crazy . But sadly , that is the only thing they are good at . Other than that , 4-man dungeons are just a joke anyways . Most of them doesn't even require a tank . I did tanking with lots of setups for long time and I can tell you this :

What you need to be aware of is the fake Stamina tank setups . The one and only benefit of having High Stamina pool IN TERMS OF GROUP SUPPORT is healing team better with vigors . You must keep Vigor on all allies all the time . Because that is how you made your build . That is how your High Stamina pool actually benefits the group . Otherwise , you are just a selfish tank that only cares about his personal sustain which is already very easy as a DK . If you are going with the Stamina tanking way , make sure you keep Vigor on your front bar . Because you will be using it every once 5 seconds or so while your self buffs can last for 20+ seconds and can be easily casted from back bar .

About High Health tanks . You need to make sure that your Igneous Shield is not dropping from your allies . As opposed to Stamina tanks , you have the ability to give your allies bigger ''fake-health'' which does prevent one-shots .

I am tanking as Dunmer and quite happy with it . Tanked everything in the game . If you just started your character and don't care about RP or whatever reason , create an Imperial . More Stats = easier and more effective tanking . As I said , I am Dunmer and I am doing fine . I am not going to change my race because it doesn't matter that much . If you want best stats , go with Imperial . If you don't have the Imperial Edition , Orc/Nord/Argonian are very good second choices .

Hope I could help .

Cloudless · March 2017

Thanks a lot for the thorough answer

I do plan to stick to Dunmer (you guessed it, RP reasons), and, judging by what you say, going the Health route actually sounds like an interesting way to go.
A bit sad that mDKs end up being so self-centered, but so are sap tanks and thats one of the reasons why I'm not 100% happy with them either. Guess there are decent health-based builds around, I'll take a look. Thanks again!

pizzaow · March 2017

Dunmer is actually a good race for tanking (even vet trials)... Most tanks are pretty much hybrids anyway, so it wouldn't hurt to invest a little more in magic than stamina if you enjoy that play style. You'd need to invest in enough stamina/block reduction so you could block a few consecutive attacks. At least half the skills on the current meta tank builds are magic based: hardened armor, igneous shields, chains, talons, inner fire... with more magic you could run reflective scales, deep breath and/or igneous weapons in your flex spots. You could even mess around with a sword+board/ice staff on different bars, for a perma-blocking tank (if you do, let us know how it goes).

Don't let bad groups dissuade you from running your sap tank if you really enjoy it. I haven't played an NB, so I'm not sure what crowd control options they have (selene's monster helm maybe?), but I'd bet that a sap tank can provide some sort of other group utility that dk's can't. I know Deltia has a couple NB tank builds which are his favorites to play.

paulsimonps · March 2017

For me I usually say this. If you want to tank with a DK you are a tank, you are not a Magicka tank or a stamina tank you just tank. Cause as it is now what is the most effective way to play a DK is to have High Max Stamina and high magicka recovery. The magicka recovery makes it so you can use your class abilities a lot, everything from Igneous shield to choking talons to Hardened armor. The max stamina in my opinion is to help you with your sustain. Max stamina increases the value of the stamina you get back from helping hand, undaunted command, spear shards and battle roar. The increase of something like vigor is a great thing too of course and since tanks don't really have anything to spend in on the blue tree I would recommend 100p into blessed. But if you want to tank with a DK don't think of yourself to much as Magicka or stamina tank since DK's a more of a hybrid.

Though since some attributes will be put into stamina whenever you swap for DPS on something like Planar Inhibitor or Engine Guardian or overworld solo play it will most likely be as a stamina user but to be honest if you got the gold for it you can always just keep swapping on demand. Really there isn't a lot of places that has you needing to swap, really you don't need to at all it just makes certain fights go fast, but that's just dungeons, you spec for trials after all not dungeons.

Thing is that max magicka gives very little for a DK tank, your damage output doesn't mean ANYTHING so things like spell/weapon damage and max stats are of little conseren unless it can either help your group in form of a type of support like buff/debuff or heals or if it helps your sustain. DK's have tons of options for sustain but even so you have to remember that sustain is key for tanking. Drop block on a boss like the mantikora or warrior and your screwed, but you also don't want to be low on magicka cause then you can't use your class abilities to help you and your group out. So think magicka regen and max stamina for DK's. Hybrids if you want, neither stamina nor magicka tanks.

Side note. I also play a Dunmer DK Tank.

Oreyn_Bearclaw · March 2017

@paulsimonps is 100% correct.

TLDR: DK tanks are hybrids with high max Stam and high magic recovery. You manage your stamina by spamming igneous shields. Magic regen=stamina sustain on DK tanks.

Personofsecrets · March 2017

@Liofa

What makes you choose a shield build compared to a vigor build?

Liofa · March 2017

Personofsecrets wrote: »

@Liofa

What makes you choose a shield build compared to a vigor build?

@Personofsecrets

TL;DR at buttom .

This is a question that is very hard to answer actually . This is gonna be a wall of text surely . Anyways , I played with both . Thing I noticed is people die from one-shots most of the time . Rakkhat Lunar Smash + Orbs from middle for example . When things like this hit at the same time , there is only one thing that can save people . Shields . Vigor build can reduce the amount of pressure on healers , that is very true . But I also think , in a end-game raiding group where you have 2 decent healers , healing is not a problem . Shields , aka fake health , is one of the main reasons why Magicka DPS is very strong . Warrior Starfall , what does a Stamina player do ? Block and hope to get heals . What does Magicka do ? Spam 15k shields and survive without healing . A Magicka player can cure himself during shield phase in first boss vmol . Shields are that strong . During Starfall , Magicka DDs in my group who are melee have 25-30k shield constantly ; and 10k any other time .

Also , I wouldn't call mine a shield build . It basically does everything at the same time . I tank Warrior HM without Guard so off-tank can guard someone else or slot another skills , Rakkhat without Absorb Magic another skill slot , have a Lightning Staff on back bar for Blockade Off-Balance effect (I keep it 90-100% even on Rakkhat HM) , using Invigorating Drain (my ultigen is actually higher than Tava's Favor tanks) for Ultigen . Everything I just said will cause lots of trouble for any build that doesn't run High Health ; in terms of both survivability and sustain . Well , to be honest , it will cause sustain problems for any build that doesn't use Equilibrium . I do all these things while keeping the standart Ebon/Alkosh setup .

I was main tanking vmol with 24k Health , 33k Stamina (without horn) and 18k resistances . I got lots of ''you have too low health'' comments . I switched to classic 30k setup for very hard-hitting Sanctum bosses like Manti and Serpent . I start tanking with 42k Health (because Warrior after 1T patch required me to change build) and this time I get ''you have too much health'' comments . My point is , whatever Health you have , it doesn't matter in the end . It is all about how much support you give to group . When I watch my old videos with my old builds , I get angry at myself because I am absolutely nothing compared to my current self . To be honest , I am kinda sad because people slot useless skills on their back bar (chains in Rakkhat fight ^^) and call it support . I use Crushing Shock on my back bar during Warrior fight for interrupting flame-shapers , as main tank , without guard on me . This is very real , I am not joking . Click here , see for yourself (we are just training there , don't judge the vitality bonus ^^) . All these things I said , I couldn't do without High Health because I needed much more personal tankiness . To be honest , I am not sure if I am tankier or not . I just have 10k more HP , that's all . My resists are lower (Infused weapon) , I have a damn staff on my back bar which is charged . I stopped using lots of self-defense to open skill slots for support . I don't know what else to say . It started with ''let me protect my mates with igneous shield'' and came to this

This sure has turned out to be a wall of text .

TL;DR : I figured it allows me to give more support .