Can't even cancel Sub without agreeing to third parties.

Armitas · March 2017

yodased wrote: »

Hey bud,

I think you should call this number and explain to them your issue. I believe they can cancel your sub over the phone without you accepting the draconian privacy policies

(410) 568-3200

Or you could send a certified letter to

Customer Support
200 International Cir, Cockeysville, MD 21030

or email support.

All of these will let you get out without agreeing to their terms.

And everyone giving this man crap for not wanting to agree to something, grow up. He is a grown man who doesn't want his information shared and if he wants to cancel his account without sharing it, he damn well should be able to.

Hey yodased.

I can call the bank too, but that won't change the fact that this policy is interfering with the immediate and normal path to cancel your sub.

Kodrac · March 2017

yodased wrote: »

And everyone giving this man crap for not wanting to agree to something, grow up. He is a grown man who doesn't want his information shared and if he wants to cancel his account without sharing it, he damn well should be able to.

Or he could get with the times. It takes one email to opt out.

yodased · March 2017

Armitas wrote: »

yodased wrote: »

Hey bud,

I think you should call this number and explain to them your issue. I believe they can cancel your sub over the phone without you accepting the draconian privacy policies

(410) 568-3200

Or you could send a certified letter to

Customer Support
200 International Cir, Cockeysville, MD 21030

or email support.

All of these will let you get out without agreeing to their terms.

And everyone giving this man crap for not wanting to agree to something, grow up. He is a grown man who doesn't want his information shared and if he wants to cancel his account without sharing it, he damn well should be able to.

Hey yodased.

I can call the bank too, but that won't change the fact that this policy is interfering with the immediate and normal path to cancel your sub.

True, but is your agenda for them to change the policy or to get the account sub cancelled?

Pathemavan · March 2017

Kodrac wrote: »

yodased wrote: »

And everyone giving this man crap for not wanting to agree to something, grow up. He is a grown man who doesn't want his information shared and if he wants to cancel his account without sharing it, he damn well should be able to.

Or he could get with the times. It takes one email to opt out.

Perhaps - but you must admit that following "the normal process" in this case feels... a bit off

Thanks to how it's currently set up, it consists of "I'm very upset about this information sharing. I don't want to give them permission. So I'm going to cancel my account... which I can only do AFTER giving them that permission..."

Kodrac · March 2017

yodased wrote: »

Armitas wrote: »

yodased wrote: »

Hey bud,

I think you should call this number and explain to them your issue. I believe they can cancel your sub over the phone without you accepting the draconian privacy policies

(410) 568-3200

Or you could send a certified letter to

Customer Support
200 International Cir, Cockeysville, MD 21030

or email support.

All of these will let you get out without agreeing to their terms.

And everyone giving this man crap for not wanting to agree to something, grow up. He is a grown man who doesn't want his information shared and if he wants to cancel his account without sharing it, he damn well should be able to.

Hey yodased.

I can call the bank too, but that won't change the fact that this policy is interfering with the immediate and normal path to cancel your sub.

True, but is your agenda for them to change the policy or to get the account sub cancelled?

My agenda is to not freak out when the options are laid out in front of you.

PactMender · March 2017

Armitas wrote: »

Why would any genuine person defend this action?

youre right its unjustifiable. you should accept or decline you shouldnt have to jump through hurdles to cancel a sub.

then again business efforts made by zos have been awful, eso is a wreck and every update eso goes down..

Armitas · March 2017

yodased wrote: »

True, but is your agenda for them to change the policy or to get the account sub cancelled?

It's the situation they put you in. Neither being able to play the game or cancel your sub in a timely or normal manner.

notimetocare · March 2017

Armitas wrote: »

Turelus wrote: »

Well it's not as bad as all the drama llamas made out.
[Quoting Gina]Hey guys, just to clear things up here, we will never sell your information and there are no plans to add in-game advertising to ESO. The updated privacy policy gives us the ability to better provide you with more personalized updates and new information on the game.

No one asked for that. They are not doing it to better provide us with anything. They are doing it to better provide for themselves. If it was for us they would have given us an immediate option. How does them giving out my email address to unknown third parties serve me? It doesn't. That quote is corporate speak to convince people to swallow this bitter pill.

Here is what their statement should say.

"We will be collecting your data and giving that data out to strangers along with your private email to third parties that may get hacked which will result in the distribution of your information and email all across the internet."

This is funny because you believe any of your information online is safe...
Quick questionnaire:
Have you used it on a website? If yes, its already been stolen and sold.

Sigtric · March 2017

Honestly, if this is *that* big of a problem for you, you need to get off the internet and anything connected to it.

Violynne · March 2017

Armitas wrote: »

No one asked for that. They are not doing it to better provide us with anything. They are doing it to better provide for themselves. If it was for us they would have given us an immediate option. How does them giving out my email address to unknown third parties serve me? It doesn't. That quote is corporate speak to convince people to swallow this bitter pill.

If this is what you believe, you've been fed misinformation.

First, let's clear out the white elephant in the room: You're using Microsoft Windows, and this has been their policy since Windows XP. Go read their ToS if you don't believe me. If you're using an ISP, they're definitely selling your personal information (pay attention to the current issue of Pai working to remove the rules the FCC put in place under Wheeler to prevent this).

Second, no PERSONAL information is distributed. None. Nada. Zilch, which includes your email address.

What the ToS basically states is that they can take INFORMATION generated by your use and submit this to third parties. It's common practice today. So much so, you cannot escape if if you're using any software today.

I know people are upset about it because of the term "third party", but this is a general use term which excludes ZeniMax (and its affiliates) so that legal folks know who the targets are. "Third party" does not mean ads.

You're within your rights to cancel your subscription, but I see it being a stupid decision based of ignorant information you believe.

If you go, be sure to uninstall Windows and close your ISP account as well. You want to be thorough to protect your "privacy", which means stay off the internet.

Signed,
A person who has been working in the web software world for over 20 years and has seen enough of these ToS to understand they're not for us, but for the legal department.

SolarCat02 · March 2017

I sent an opt out email yesterday and received this reply today. I am posting it here in case it helps anyone come to a decision.

Greetings!

Thank you for your request. You currently do not have any subscriptions to any 3rd party subscriptions. This means that your information has not been shared with any 3rd parties nor will it be in the future. Should you have any questions or concerns please let us know.

Thank you for your continued interest and support!

Katahdin · March 2017

If you have a google account, someone already has your info. If you even use google, you've already agreed to this sort of thing your browsing habits are being tracked and used to advertise to you according to that history and to generate marketing data.

Like the poster above stated, if you have a problem with this sort of thing, get rid of all your computers, tablets, smart phones and only use the computer at the public library if available.

Then you can get rid of any insurance policies, bank accounts, credit cards, pretty much any account anywhere because they all collect info on you. Ever get the annual privacy statement from your bank or insurance company or read the terms of your a account? It's the exact same thing

Argruna · March 2017

I'm so sorely confused because all the private info you are not wanting them to have? You already gave it to them. Email addy to sign in, credit card info, etc. The horse has already left the barn, the farm and is halfway to New York right now dreaming big, yet you seem to think the potato sacks that the horse kicked into its stable are the actual horse.

God you remind me of the lady that went on and on about not wanting a member's card for the store because that's how they track you you know and then got super upset when the prompt on the register asked me to verify her signature with her name. How do you know my name, she screamed, I never gave it to you! It's like lady you used a credit card for a purchase over $50, it asks us to make sure the you are you. She still screamed about invasion of privacy and then left me there with her stuff and me waiting ten minutes for a manager to void the whole thing off.

Though I do find this whole thing hilarious because if this is tailored that they see that I've been buying crowns instead of subbing and offer me a coupon or something, I can just see people frothing at the mouths asking why they didn't get this deal or that deal and come to find out it's because they opted out.

Decided to pop back in here and post this.

Senate just voted on ending rules about internet privacy.

Senate lawmakers voted Thursday to repeal a historic set of rules aimed at protecting consumers' online data from their own Internet providers, in a move that could make it easier for broadband companies to sell and share their customers' usage information for advertising purposes.

The rules, which prohibit providers from abusing the data they gather on their customers as they browse the Web on cellphones and computers, were approved last year over objections from Republicans who argued the regulations went too far.

U.S. senators voted 50 to 48 to approve a joint resolution from Sen. Jeff Flake (R-Ariz.) that would prevent the Federal Communications Commission's privacy rules from going into effect. The resolution also would bar the FCC from ever enacting similar consumer protections. It now heads to the House.

So maybe you should just cancel your internet/phone/cable as well eh?

alexkdd99 · March 2017

Armitas wrote: »

Kodrac wrote: »

Jesus dude. Just cancel your sub and never come back to their website. They're not coming into your home through the game, they're not kicking your dog while you're at work. They're selling your surfing habits IF you use their website. That's it. Accept it and move on with your life. Or just opt out and not have a heart attack.

I hit agree and they distribute my email to unknown parties. That is my primary account email. That is an absurd request just to be able to cancel your sub. They are coming into my home. They are sending my information gathered outside their game, with no relevance to their game to outside sources.

Maybe you should be a little more concerned about what is being done with your information. All it takes is one of these unknown third parties getting hacked and now my email is distributed all over the internet.

If your truly that concerned over it then why not create another email for purposes such as this. That is what I do although not for the same reasons, I do it to keep spam and adds out of my personal email.

Considering how easy it is to create email accounts it really shouldn't matter that much.

Armitas · March 2017

Violynne wrote: »

Armitas wrote: »

No one asked for that. They are not doing it to better provide us with anything. They are doing it to better provide for themselves. If it was for us they would have given us an immediate option. How does them giving out my email address to unknown third parties serve me? It doesn't. That quote is corporate speak to convince people to swallow this bitter pill.

If this is what you believe, you've been fed misinformation.

First, let's clear out the white elephant in the room: You're using Microsoft Windows, and this has been their policy since Windows XP. Go read their ToS if you don't believe me. If you're using an ISP, they're definitely selling your personal information (pay attention to the current issue of Pai working to remove the rules the FCC put in place under Wheeler to prevent this).

Second, no PERSONAL information is distributed. None. Nada. Zilch, which includes your email address.

What the ToS basically states is that they can take INFORMATION generated by your use and submit this to third parties. It's common practice today. So much so, you cannot escape if if you're using any software today.

I know people are upset about it because of the term "third party", but this is a general use term which excludes ZeniMax (and its affiliates) so that legal folks know who the targets are. "Third party" does not mean ads.

You're within your rights to cancel your subscription, but I see it being a stupid decision based of ignorant information you believe.

If you go, be sure to uninstall Windows and close your ISP account as well. You want to be thorough to protect your "privacy", which means stay off the internet.

Signed,
A person who has been working in the web software world for over 20 years and has seen enough of these ToS to understand they're not for us, but for the legal department.

1. Two wrongs don't make it right.
2. The privacy policy specifically says your information is being tracked for these third parties. It also specifically says your email will be given to them.

Tandor · March 2017

Armitas wrote: »

Bouldercleave wrote: »

Armitas wrote: »

Bouldercleave wrote: »

Armitas wrote: »

Turelus wrote: »

Well it's not as bad as all the drama llamas made out.

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

Hey guys, just to clear things up here, we will never sell your information and there are no plans to add in-game advertising to ESO. The updated privacy policy gives us the ability to better provide you with more personalized updates and new information on the game.

No one asked for that. They are not doing it to better provide us with anything. They are doing it to better provide for themselves. If it was for us they would have given us an option.

You read where you can opt out, RIGHT?

There is no immediate option available. It's agree or decline before I can cancel my sub

Then agree, unsub and follow the protocol to opt out. Jesus It's like someone flicked your nuts or something. It's not that big of a deal.

I should not have to agree to have my privacy given over to third parties just to cancel my sub, that is an absurd expectation.

I imagine it's nothing to do with you unsubbing, rather that it was the first time you've logged into the account management page and therefore got presented with the amended privacy notice on logging in. Would you rather they didn't notify you of any changes to it?

Milvan · March 2017

This is a really cheesy complain. I mean, you are entitled to that, but it's kind cheesy. Also they clearly states that they won't share your e-mail if you ask them not to do it.

blabliblargh · March 2017

Overreacting in all its glory...

Takes-No-Prisoner · March 2017

Kodrac wrote: »

Armitas wrote: »

No I cannot fix it myself. I cannot cancel my sub how many times do I have to say that? Do you have any idea how long the OPT out process is?

Yes you can. It only takes a couple minutes to send an email or click a link. Jesus you act like it's applying for a passport in the 50s. It doesn't take months. This is the digital age, man. And being the digital age, you gave away your privacy the day you stepped foot on the internet.

Gonna have to agree with Kodrac on this. My drivers license was up for renewal in my state. Went to their website, verified some information about myself and with in 2 weeks I had my new drivers license.

Armitas · March 2017

Can any one justify why this agreement should proceed the ability to cancel a sub? No one? Didn't think so. You can try and defend it out of some sychophantic duty to defend, but you have 0 capability in justifying it.

alexkdd99 · March 2017

Armitas wrote: »

Violynne wrote: »

Armitas wrote: »

No one asked for that. They are not doing it to better provide us with anything. They are doing it to better provide for themselves. If it was for us they would have given us an immediate option. How does them giving out my email address to unknown third parties serve me? It doesn't. That quote is corporate speak to convince people to swallow this bitter pill.

If this is what you believe, you've been fed misinformation.

First, let's clear out the white elephant in the room: You're using Microsoft Windows, and this has been their policy since Windows XP. Go read their ToS if you don't believe me. If you're using an ISP, they're definitely selling your personal information (pay attention to the current issue of Pai working to remove the rules the FCC put in place under Wheeler to prevent this).

Second, no PERSONAL information is distributed. None. Nada. Zilch, which includes your email address.

What the ToS basically states is that they can take INFORMATION generated by your use and submit this to third parties. It's common practice today. So much so, you cannot escape if if you're using any software today.

I know people are upset about it because of the term "third party", but this is a general use term which excludes ZeniMax (and its affiliates) so that legal folks know who the targets are. "Third party" does not mean ads.

You're within your rights to cancel your subscription, but I see it being a stupid decision based of ignorant information you believe.

If you go, be sure to uninstall Windows and close your ISP account as well. You want to be thorough to protect your "privacy", which means stay off the internet.

Signed,
A person who has been working in the web software world for over 20 years and has seen enough of these ToS to understand they're not for us, but for the legal department.

1. Two wrongs don't make it right.
2. The privacy policy specifically says your information is being tracked for these third parties. It also specifically says your email will be given to them.

Except if someone is that distraught over a very simple tos they obviously have not read any of them they have signed previously. If they did read them before then why did they sign them if they are so against it.

You can't be this upset over it only now but not over the countless others you had likely signed if you are doing anything on the internet. These are everywhere and with most any account you create online. You give far more when you buy and use a phone, tablet, game console, or pc.

Nebthet78 · March 2017

EMAIL: ads@zenimax.com
Opt-out

Also here is Webcroma's OPT OUT page to read.
I don't like the fact they want to install cookies on your computer to keep you FROM seeing the ads. I never accept third party cookies and clean mine out regularly.
http://www.weborama.com/e-privacy/our-commitment/

Lastly, part of the OP's complaints is that he CAN'T even ACCESS his account until he Accepts this Privacy violation (even if there is an opt out to go through afterwards). So he can't go in and change his email or anything else until he has basically said it's okay for ZOS to give his "personal information" to a Third Party.

And if you read the agreement, it does state that ZOS will share your Personal Information.

"How ZeniMax Shares Information

ZeniMax may share information about you , including personal information, with entities and vendors that use it to provide support for the internal operations of our websites, online stores (including payment processors), products (such as our games) and services (e.g., message board operations, and technical support processing), as well as related offline product support services. Our contracts with these service providers do not permit use of your information for their own marketing purposes.

ZeniMax may also share information about you , including personal information with our subsidiary or affiliate companies for purposes of internal marketing, analytics, research and demographic studies, which help us improve and tailor the products and services we provide you, and, if you have consented, to notify you about other products and services offered by ZeniMax and its affiliates. Our subsidiary or affiliate companies are subject to this privacy policy when they use your personal information."

OP the best I can offer you to do is to email ZOS customer service and have them change your email address first to one you create for spam alone, to keep it out of your primary email and to make sure you have programs on your browser to prevent third party companies from detecting what sites you go to or to block from ever seeing those ads.

Armitas · March 2017

alexkdd99 wrote: »

Armitas wrote: »

Violynne wrote: »

Armitas wrote: »

No one asked for that. They are not doing it to better provide us with anything. They are doing it to better provide for themselves. If it was for us they would have given us an immediate option. How does them giving out my email address to unknown third parties serve me? It doesn't. That quote is corporate speak to convince people to swallow this bitter pill.

If this is what you believe, you've been fed misinformation.

First, let's clear out the white elephant in the room: You're using Microsoft Windows, and this has been their policy since Windows XP. Go read their ToS if you don't believe me. If you're using an ISP, they're definitely selling your personal information (pay attention to the current issue of Pai working to remove the rules the FCC put in place under Wheeler to prevent this).

Second, no PERSONAL information is distributed. None. Nada. Zilch, which includes your email address.

What the ToS basically states is that they can take INFORMATION generated by your use and submit this to third parties. It's common practice today. So much so, you cannot escape if if you're using any software today.

I know people are upset about it because of the term "third party", but this is a general use term which excludes ZeniMax (and its affiliates) so that legal folks know who the targets are. "Third party" does not mean ads.

You're within your rights to cancel your subscription, but I see it being a stupid decision based of ignorant information you believe.

If you go, be sure to uninstall Windows and close your ISP account as well. You want to be thorough to protect your "privacy", which means stay off the internet.

Signed,
A person who has been working in the web software world for over 20 years and has seen enough of these ToS to understand they're not for us, but for the legal department.

1. Two wrongs don't make it right.
2. The privacy policy specifically says your information is being tracked for these third parties. It also specifically says your email will be given to them.

Except if someone is that distraught over a very simple tos they obviously have not read any of them they have signed previously. If they did read them before then why did they sign them if they are so against it.

You can't be this upset over it only now but not over the countless others you had likely signed if you are doing anything on the internet. These are everywhere and with most any account you create online. You give far more when you buy and use a phone, tablet, game console, or pc.

I have never had to sign such an agreement to end a scheduled payment. There is no legitimate reason why a video game needs to distribute my email address to strangers. Even less why they should require it to cancel a payment promptly.

Sigtric · March 2017

Jesus dude. Click the I DECLINE button and stop payment through your credit card company

Then call me up because I have a nice rock you might be interested in, for living under.

Armitas · March 2017

Nebthet78 wrote: »

EMAIL: ads@zenimax.com
Opt-out

Thanks. I appreciate both yours and yodased legitimate attempt at helping me. I have already opted out but still awaiting sucess, this thread is more about the situation.

Violynne · March 2017

Armitas wrote: »

1. Two wrongs don't make it right.

Not sure where you're seeing the "wrong" in all this.

2. The privacy policy specifically says your information is being tracked for these third parties. It also specifically says your email will be given to them.

Then you received a bogus policy change, because the one I read did not state they were going to give away my email address.

Here's the link to the Terms of Service

Do a "find" on email. Specifically pull out any part of that ToS which states they will give away your email. Everything states the typical "must be valid" and "ZoS will contact you via".

NOTHING in the ToS states otherwise.

But if you allow me a moment to get a little long winded, let me explain how I know these things, so you can put your mind at ease.

As a web developer, I've seen some shady practices in my career. Most legitimate businesses go out of their way to not only protect your data externally, but have measures to protect your data internally, so some nutjob obsessed with Emma Watson can't go through the database looking for her personal information.

When a company like ZoS works with third parties, you can bet they have a team of lawyers who make sure none of the third parties will sell the data either, or they'd be sued faster than Mojang over the use of the word "Scrolls" in a game title.

These are standard.

Now, where things get screwed comes from companies like your ISP, who do sell your personal information, as well as websites you visit, how long you're on, and if you were foolish enough to give your actual birthday when you signed up, that too.

THIS is where most of the privacy violations occur. AT&T will sell you out faster than you can say "Opt out", because if you read their ToS, it explicitly states any information you provide using their services, including account setup, is theirs to distribute. Everything belongs to them, including your "private" information.

Go read it. Then get sick to your stomach.

This is how ad networks flourish. Google, Apple, and Microsoft don't sell your personal information, but they will sell general information, such as what demographic your account belongs to, or how long you've been using their services. Banal stuff, but enough ad marketers can use it to be more directed to you personally (can't wait for facial recognition to screw us over).

I am NOT belittling your concern here. You have every right to be concerned, and I'm glad you're proactively seeking to correct what you believe is wrong.

But your statement shows you're misguided on what you think you've read to what is actually happening.

There are plenty of things you can do to protect your privacy, and allow me to demonstrate:
"Hi, my name is Violynne."

Right? Wrong! Yet everything I do online which isn't tied to my SSN uses this account. I even have a dependent debit card I fill with my primary account which has the name "Violynne Bannister" on it.

So, yes, I'm fully aware of your privacy issues, but you should also take into consideration you have to play their game, by breaking their rules.

ZoS will never know my actual identity. They don't need it over a game. My age, gender, email, and even CC to pay for ESO+ is all fictitious. Only a legal court order will break open the true owner. Even Microsoft doesn't know my real name as I use their Outlook service to generate the email I use on websites where I don't believe companies have a right to know who I am.

Maybe take a look at this option, and restructure a few things before criticizing a company who is doing more to protect your personal information than AT&T, Time Warner, Comcast, Verizon, or any other ISP will.

Because I can promise you any loss of privacy will start with them first. This, you can take as a fact.

Armitas · March 2017

Sigtric wrote: »

Jesus dude. Click the I DECLINE button and stop payment through your credit card company

Then call me up because I have a nice rock you might be interested in, for living under.

I have no interest in participating in the common types of social media. That doesn't make my concerns any less valid. Can you give me any reason why this game should be giving away my email address to strangers? Any reason why I should have to allow that to cancel my sub promptly?

Armitas · March 2017

Violynne wrote: »

Armitas wrote: »

1. Two wrongs don't make it right.

Not sure where you're seeing the "wrong" in all this.

2. The privacy policy specifically says your information is being tracked for these third parties. It also specifically says your email will be given to them.

Then you received a bogus policy change, because the one I read did not state they were going to give away my email address.

Here's the link to the Terms of Service

Do a "find" on email. Specifically pull out any part of that ToS which states they will give away your email. Everything states the typical "must be valid" and "ZoS will contact you via".

NOTHING in the ToS states otherwise.

1. Giving my email out before I can promptly play or cancel my sub is wrong.
2. Good Lord man read the freaking OP before responding with your sychophantic duty to defend ZOS's actions. It's right there in the first post.

alexkdd99 · March 2017

Armitas wrote: »

Can any one justify why this agreement should proceed the ability to cancel a sub? No one? Didn't think so. You can try and defend it out of some sychophantic duty to defend, but you have 0 capability in justifying it.

Ummmm how about they are notifying you of a change in their ToS before you proceed with using THEIR service? Seems pretty reasonable to me. How about you ask the question and see if people come up with an answer before assuming people don't have an answer.

Not sure how you say no one has an answer in the same statement you asked the question.

MLGProPlayer · March 2017

Pathemavan wrote: »

Armitas wrote: »

Why would any genuine person defend this action?

Because most people, (thought admittedly not all,) have at least one of the following already:

Google account
Facebook account
Twitter account
Snapchat account

as well as several others that just don't spring immediately to mind.

As such, we are somewhat desensitized to the prospect of our personal information being sold or shared with other companies. Not to go all kinds of 1984 here, but we've entered an era where we are not the consumer of a product or service - more frequently, WE are the product being offered.

The world has moved on....

But how many of those services do we pay for?

When I buy a game, I expect my purchase of that game, or purchase of microtransactions, to be enough to support the game. I don't ezpect that game to need to sell my data as well to make more money.

If this were a F2P game, data sharing would be expected. But it isn't a F2P game, it's a very expensive B2P game with an option to subscribe.

All I can rhink is that Zenimax plans to go F2P with this game. But even then, subs or those who already bought the game should automatically be opted out. It's pretty unprecedented for a paid service to share your information with advertisers.