Enemy-of-Coldharbour wrote: »

Why must PVE continue to suffer because of PVP?

MrBrandon wrote: »

Enemy-of-Coldharbour wrote: »

Why must PVE continue to suffer because of PVP?

I couldn't agree more. ZOS nerfs everything, because of PVP. They need to be separate.

No, no, no, stop this. No PvP player in their right mind asked for these CP changes. These changes are far worse for PvP than they are for PvE, especially the new CP star that cuts regen when you light attack an enemy.

Blanket nerfs like this hurt the classes with already poor sustain far more than they hurt the classes with extremely high sustain. Redguard Stamina Sorcerers are already one of the absolute strongest setups in PvP, because they can go full damage, and still have infinite sustain through the combination of Constitution, Adrenaline Rush, and Dark Deal. Meanwhile, mDKs struggle tremendously with sustain, and must build high recovery and/or cost reduction to be able to sustain themselves.

The CP star changes will hurt mDKs substantially more than StamSorces, and push people even more towards the light attack meta with the new star, which is a percent-based reduced recovery to target on light attack. Since Stamina Sorcerers basically don't use recovery at all to get their preposterous sustain, they probably wouldn't even notice the change. And if they did, they'd just slap on a couple of cost reduction glyphs and call it a day.

PvPers wanted fewer infinite sustain Stamina Sorcerers, but the CP changes would only give us more of them. So quit blaming PvPers for this change, because we did not ask for it.

ADarklore wrote: »

As I've noted in other threads on this subject, months ago Wrobel said that players should be using Cost Reduction enchants for sustain, instead, players are running all damage enchants and simply using armor/CP for reduction... this change will force those players to run CR enchants as he intended to happen months ago.

The game is way too easy right now. There needs to be a reduction to DPS across the board, and this might achieve that.

Cp doesn't have that much of an impact in game and with the proposed nerfs will render even more equipment sets useless, I mean sturdy trait should only be applied to pvp sets, and seriously training and prosperous should be craftable traits only, have never known any mmo to have some stupidly long and annoying farming just to get one item. And for my final point lol elder scrolls games have always been about being able to play any skill, choose any role, so this breaks so badly from tradition with forcing classes on us, won't miss this at all if they carry on nerfing without having the common sense to actually you know balance the clases which they seem to be incompetently managing, rant over, moving onto far better games

FloppyTouch wrote: »

I could have swore that someone at ZoS stated that the nerf to crit on sets was due to over preforming dps in pve. This was stated in another thread can be bothered to look it up right now at work. Please stop blaming pvp for nerfs to pve. Same for Stam regen while blocking this was to make tanking in pve feel more challenging. Pls get over urselfs PvE players

^ This.

No PvPer in their right mind asked for the CP changes, especially the introduction of Siphoner. Siphoner is going to shove players even further towards playing zero recovery heavy armor Redguards who spam Dark Deal, which is the opposite of what PvP needs.

And for a final thought by removing reduction costs because that's not how zos want us to play it goes against everything that elder scrolls stood for, which was freedom of choice to develop youre character how you saw for not how a developer expected you to so epic fail on the developers part will also result in the majority of sets becoming absolutely useless so no need to farm just get a better game to play which is sad as I put in a year of my life into this game which I still love and btw after Jesus beam got nerfed spell costs for templar abilities went up rendering the templar class as pretty useless as dps which us my favoured role, can't squeeze more than 40k dps whilst my dk and my sorc can do way more damage. Cost reduction had to stay if not in cp then in racial passives looking forward to a break from this broken game finally lol good luck one and all with eso you will need it

Tasear wrote: »

Instead of nerfing ...How about harder content? After all 360o CP... Can't always nerf. Say one day 100 man raid.

Because adding more people makes content "hard". All that does is increase the amount of HP you need to give to mobs and increase the incredible headache of organising events.

What they need to give us is more vCoS/vRoMs where you are actually punished for stupid mistakes.

A successful 'balanced' mmo is either PvP with pve elements or pve with PvP elements not an equal amount of both and the 'balancing Isn't. It is ok for players like me who do trials hm but will alienate players who like soloing stuff and casual players as to elitist idiots if it focuses solely on that style of gameplay then the fan base will drop drastically deservedly. If it ain't broke don't fix it oh but I forget zeni break stuff after each patch lol disable cp whilst in cyro enable when you leave cyro leave the cp alone problem solved perhaps they should actually employ people who know how to 'actually balance' an mmo not break but further

Pretty sure ZOS made a statement about lowering the ceiling for high end DPS, this is most likely one of the changes they are looking at to make that happen. That means this is a PVE nerf because of PVE. Nothing to do with PVP.

Regen is pretty meh in PVP as is. Its all about burst before poisons drain you or running in a zerg ball casting your 1 ability and light/heavy attacking until you can Ulti.

Again, this is strictly a PVE nerf because of PVE, not PVP.

Well if our pve dps threshold gets lowered just for the sake of it vet trials hard mode will take way too long this is just more zos laziness as farming for sets takes way too long as it is due to unnecessarily crappy traits pve and PvP have to be kept separate as pve is underwhelming as it is now

Enemy-of-Coldharbour wrote: »

Why must PVE continue to suffer because of PVP?

PvE sustain is just as broken

DHale wrote: »

Sigh, more nerfs. Because all the nerfs have made the game better. Double sigh.

Because a game where resource management is supposed to be a big thing that has powercreeped through things like CP to the point where resource management is a joke is a good well designed working game...

ADarklore wrote: »

As I've noted in other threads on this subject, months ago Wrobel said that players should be using Cost Reduction enchants for sustain, instead, players are running all damage enchants and simply using armor/CP for reduction... this change will force those players to run CR enchants as he intended to happen months ago.

And why is forcing players to use one or the other a good thing? I thought the game was sold as "play as you want." Stamina builds have a particular difficulty with sustain because stamina is used for more than just spells and weapon damage. From the very beginning of the game, people have asked for roll dodge and break free to be separated from the stamina pool...either that or have them also reduce magicka pool. But that player request was never honored by ZOS.

Strider_Roshin wrote: »

MrBrandon wrote: »

Enemy-of-Coldharbour wrote: »

Why must PVE continue to suffer because of PVP?

I couldn't agree more. ZOS nerfs everything, because of PVP. They need to be separate.

How long are PvEers going to blame PvPers for non-PvP changes?

Forever I guess we pvpers are evil and tell Wrobel to make the game harder for PVers so they have to try now.

Wolfenbelle wrote: »

ADarklore wrote: »

As I've noted in other threads on this subject, months ago Wrobel said that players should be using Cost Reduction enchants for sustain, instead, players are running all damage enchants and simply using armor/CP for reduction... this change will force those players to run CR enchants as he intended to happen months ago.

And why is forcing players to use one or the other a good thing? I thought the game was sold as "play as you want." Stamina builds have a particular difficulty with sustain because stamina is used for more than just spells and weapon damage. From the very beginning of the game, people have asked for roll dodge and break free to be separated from the stamina pool...either that or have them also reduce magicka pool. But that player request was never honored by ZOS.

Just because the game was sold as 'play as you want' doesn't mean playing as you want will be as effective as playing other ways. This is why hybrids suck, you can play a hybrid, but you will struggle with content that singular builds breeze through. But it is an option and creates a choice for players... just as the CR removal from CP will create.

Someone asked a few comments back that if ZOS wanted players to run CR glyphs why not remove damage glyphs, but this again goes back to making a meaningful choice... with the upcoming CR changes in CP, you will now have to make a choice between high damage or sustain. Right now there is very little reason to run CR glyphs because CP gives us such a boost to reduction... it is also why players can run mixed armor instead of relying on the cost reduction from running seven pieces.

This also coincides with the introduction of "Magickasteal" to several abilities... adding additional means of sustain for Magicka players.

One issue with magplar is that it has to be in melee range to pull maximum DPS. Which isn't the case for sorcs.