Am I the only one disappointed in how Warden is shaping up?

alanmatillab16_ESO · March 2017

PelinalWhitestrake wrote: »

Oh, no...

First Warden will be OP...
Then they nerf it after they've sold enough copies and got dat monay...
Forums explode...
Salted popcorn skyrockets in price...
Everything calms down...
And then the patient folks will make their first Warden after the storm has passed...

Pretty much this ^^^ all we are going to see at release are Wardens as they are the new shiney toy. The smart will leave it a little while for the initial rush and the inevitable "rebalancing" and then start to play once they are not flavour of the month.

Magdalina · March 2017

nimander99 wrote: »

I think, once we get a couple more classes added, they should make a Custom Class option where you can select 3 Class Trees from any class and Name your Class w/e you want. Then this would truly become a Scrolls game in every essence.

Oh god no. While I appreciate the sentiment, can you imagine streaking bol-ing globe of OP-ness using magma armor(I ran short on most op dk skill there, been a while since I played mine so please add a better one there if you can)?
What works well in terms of roleplaying really doesn't work well in terms of balance, especially in a game with an elemt of competitiveness to it

Draqone · March 2017

Indigochild3rdi wrote: »

Astrid_V wrote: »

Jeez, it's not even out yet and people are already worrying and complaining.

Exactly my thoughts. It's ridiculous how much I've seen people complaining about how the warden sucks or morrowwind is disappointing. Like damn let it come out first then you can hate lol

That's because people hear marketing slogans that actually tell you nothing ("An amazing PvP experience", "A totally new and exciting class", "The warden can do everything!") and imagine god knows what.

And then it turns out the class has to be actually somewhat balanced, the skills are not as exciting as the player imagined because of game engine limitations and that the PvP experience would be great if it wasn't for the other players doing everything to make you miserable.

So yeh, less hype, more facts.

Jitterbug · March 2017

Curragraigue wrote: »

Problem is they want every class to be able to tank, heal and DPS.

Actually, we want that.

Yolokin_Swagonborn · March 2017

I am not looking forward to the Warden being overtuned and over buffed for the first 4 months of the game just to sell boxes.

Broken mechanics for 4 months while everyone cheeses endgame content and PvP with it only to get severely nerfed later.

That is my prediction.

Urza1234 · March 2017

starkerealm wrote: »

Urza1234 wrote: »

Don't get me wrong, the Animal Companion and Green Balance trees look alright, but the Winter's Embrace tree just does not seem to fit... at all...

Does it not occur to anyone else that Warden should perhaps have been 2 classes, a full nature class and a full ice or ice/water class, rather than 2/3 of a nature class and 1/3 of a frost class?

Fire damage has a full class of its own (Dragonknight), Lightning has a full class of its own (Sorceror), so eventually it would have been nice to have gotten a full Frost based class, but with the inclusion of this weird nature/frost hybrid that after 3 bloody years that seems eminently unlikely.

So, lightning has it's own class, except 2/3s of it are about demon summoning and the dark arts, but it's a lightning class. Dragon Knights are 2/3s about being a freakin' rock, and pretending to be a dragon, but it's a fire class, right.

But, winter has no place in nature. Yeah, I... wait, what?

7/10 of Sorc base skills that do damage deal shock damage, even the summons deal shock damage, the others deal generic magic damage, and are still visually and thematically cohesive with the shock skills. They summon a Storm Atronach for Stendarr's sake.

9/14 of DK base skills that do damage deal fire damage, the others either do generic magic or phys damage and are still visually and thematically cohesive with the fire skills, especially because even most of the skills that dont do fire damage or deal no damage still have visual fire effects, and/or are at least volcanically themed. They do have some spells that are more earth related, but honestly earth magic has never been as well represented in TES as fire has, ESO carries on this tradition as evidenced by the fact that fire is a specific damage type while earth is not, and even in DK's "Earthen Heart" tree half the skills either do fire damage or fire visual effects . Maybe in the future they could release some kind of Yokudan earth mage class or something, I doubt it but I would certainly like to see it.

Warden actually does not have a single skill that deals nature damage. This is not unprecedented or a problem however; as the Templar, which is clearly Aedrically themed, does only generic magic damage, and the Nightblade deals magic damage rather than the already extant Oblivion damage or something similar (probably because as far as I know oblivion damage is specifically %hp damage that bypasses block, used for game mechanics). There are certainly nature based casters in the game, Spriggans for example, thus two of the Warden's trees quite arguably nature themed, which in case you had not noticed in ESO and similar games means plants and animals, druids/rangers, and big green particle effects. Ice kills plants, Frost atronachs do not attack you with vines, these things are not thematically cohesive in ESO or contemporary games in general besides maybe D&D, you are just being intentionally obtuse with semantic nonsense.

Even if the thematic disparity between the warden's trees wasnt so huge, the main problem with Winter's Embrace is that the abilities for that tree are so pigeon hole'd. They have 2 skills that are basically only tank utility, and 2 skills that only scale on HP, and their one magika based skill teleports the enemy straight to the caster, which in case you havent noticed is not generally a good plan for a non-melee/tank. Anyone who wanted an expansion of frost magic in ESO who doesnt just want to frost-staff tank is basically screwed.

If they wanted warden to have a tanking tree then fine, give it barkskin, entangling roots, etc. People have been making up neat nature spells for video games and other fiction for like 30+ years, it wouldn't have been challenging to make a nature-based tank tree.

Meanwhile there are tons of cool ice/water based spells already in the game that NPCs use, throw those all together and you'd have a whole frost-based class right there

Instead we will probably never have a nature-based tank, and we will probably never have full frost-based class either, because if they ever decide to make a new class 3 years from now or whenever, they'll think "well nature and frost are already represented" so they'll do something else. That's the crux of the problem.

KochDerDamonen · March 2017

Dark magic is lightning, stones are fire?...

Seems to me the most concise classes are the ones you haven't mentioned, nightblades being shadowy and templars being light

Urza1234 · March 2017

KochDerDamonen wrote: »

Dark magic is lightning, stones are fire?...

Seems to me the most concise classes are the ones you haven't mentioned, nightblades being shadowy and templars being light

...no dark magic isnt lightning, but its also not a traditional TES elemental type that is hugely underrepresented in ESO. The point is that Sorc has a crap ton of lightning spells so lightning is fairly well represented and has been since release.

The most commonly represented Atronachs in TES are Fire, Frost, and Storm. The types of elemental damage consistently represented in TES games Destruction spells have been Fire, Frost, and Lightning.

The reason I specifically bring up Sorc and DK is because they provide their respective parts of the Destro magic trinity plenty of representation, whereas frost has gotten the short end of the stick for 3 years, and the introduction of Warden means it Frost magic will probably be relegated to the niche of staff-tanking for the remainder of the lifespan of ESO. I just dont see why they would do that when they could have made Warden's 3rd skill line a perfectly lovely nature tank.

Meanwhile nature-based spells and magic have never been particularly accessible to players in TES games, but it has always existed in the lore and world, take a look at Y'ffre and the green pact, the origins of the bosmer. Has anyone ever seen a spriggan or a spinner cast a frost bolt at them? Has anyone at any point in a TES game seen an NPC cast any kind of plant/animal based magic as well as frost magic? A magicka based warden could be expected to literally cast bees at a target and then cold spells at the target, do frozen bees really sound effective to anyone? Im sorry but this just does not make sense.

TheNuminous1 · March 2017

Everyone is so upset over the fact that frost is for tanking and not damage. But if they had turned my nature healing into nature tank I would be freaking pissed. >:(

SaRuZ · March 2017

They killed off any hope of a DPS Frost build with homestead. In comparison to Inferno & Lightning staff, Tri-focus is a game changer. Warden's Frost build will be skilled for off-tanking. If you want an awesome Ice Mage that can compete with inferno DPS, go into your room, lay down, put your face into your pillow and yell as loud as you possibly can because ZoS said **** you, "Tank with ice stave lulz lulz, play as you want Lulz."

But hey, **** all of us that farmed winterborn divines & iceheart with gold mothers sorrow ice staves, hold up, lemme stack shields & tank this vet boss, coz ZoSLogic.

KochDerDamonen · March 2017

I feel like I'm the only person that was very excited to hear ZOS was going to give up the facade and make frost a full on tanking damage type.

I thought it was interesting, and fun...

Khenarthi · March 2017

No expectations, no disappointment. ..

TX12001rwb17_ESO · March 2017

Warden should not have an Ice skill tree for DPS but instead a poison skill tree for DPS, this would fit the nature theme better.

They should of left the Ice skill line for a Necromancer class.

Urza1234 · March 2017

TX12001rwb17_ESO wrote: »

Warden should not have an Ice skill tree for DPS but instead a poison skill tree for DPS, this would fit the nature theme better.

They should of left the Ice skill line for a Necromancer class.

That would be awesome

cpuScientist · March 2017

Winters embrace feels like it was just patched in. The other 2 skill lines fit so well with each other. It's a shame. Just very uninspired and boring.

JinMori · March 2017

I am extremely disappointed by the warden skills right now. Frost dps is not viable sadly.

wolfdoggie_ESO · March 2017

I'd of loved a full water/ice themed class instead since it's my favorite but it often gets shafted in many games because developers lack imagination for what's actually the most diverse element and fail to fully bring out it's destructive side. Instead it always gets shoehorned into defense/heal type roles while fire is everyones' sugarbaby. Wardens will have to be careful not to kill their plants with ice and avoid using it too much I guess.

City of Heroes long ago is the only MMO I can think of to make a full offensive water elemental class, which ironically I recall them adding it along side a separate Nature power class back then... or you could count Ice Man in Marvel Heroes as a full ice class that annihilates everything

Skyrim did have some pretty awesome frost magic attacks (but they derped it up with the whole "everything has resistance to frost thing.") I loved the Ice Storm frozen orbs a lot, I'm surprised they didn't add something like that. Instead there's Arctic Wind which doesn't sound very exciting as it only seems to be a simple self heal when they have Green Balance for healing.

It's too late now outside of a miracle if they actually decided to make two classes instead of one. I do look forward to probably making Warden my new main class for the sake of me still loving all three tree themes, but I enjoy stamina builds more so I'll be sad if there's no ice attacks I can use for it. That's if magicka DPS even get strong ice attacks though. It always bothered me that my ice staff was useless for damage~ even more-so now that using it turns you into a tank nomatter what.

Alcast · March 2017

mr_wazzabi wrote: »

It looks good for stamina dps, but most people wanted a true icemage, which this is not.

No ice ground dot, no ice single target dot, no ice damage spammable = disappointment.

There is an ice aoe dot.
Impaling shards

JinMori · March 2017

Alcast wrote: »

mr_wazzabi wrote: »

It looks good for stamina dps, but most people wanted a true icemage, which this is not.

No ice ground dot, no ice single target dot, no ice damage spammable = disappointment.

There is an ice aoe dot.
Impaling shards

Yes but it scales from health, so it will never be on par with blockade or liquid lightning.

Sausage · March 2017

I think its OK, wish they would've added more Weapons too.

Phatmattfu · March 2017

Once they see how many units they sell with a new class maybe we will get some others added.

Necromancer for all you crying ice dps people. (Lots of summoning already though)

Bard for songs. (Red Diamondddd dps buff!)

Monk for unarmed. (It is necessary to have unarmed in Elder Scrolls game)

cjthibs · March 2017

nimander99 wrote: »

I think, once we get a couple more classes added, they should make a Custom Class option where you can select 3 Class Trees from any class and Name your Class w/e you want. Then this would truly become a Scrolls game in every essence.

This is what I had hoped the Champion system would be.

The ability to choose skills outside of your class (slightly weaker versions, of course).

High_Marshal · March 2017

I would have preferred a Nature's Wrath line instead of ice.

I am still waiting for a hand to hand melee weapon line since the Khajiit practice one.

Kodrac · March 2017

The frost tree is for tanks, that's why it's based of HP and have low damage numbers on magicka DPS characters. It's not meant to be about damage.

Valykc · March 2017

I think warden looks sick. I agree the frost skill line seems forced into it but I'm still excited to make a support based character for PvP

O_LYKOS · March 2017

Im not disappointed as such.

I see it as another character to level up. Make a half decent build then go back to my Templar and Sorcerer

NBrookus · March 2017

TX12001rwb17_ESO wrote: »

Warden should not have an Ice skill tree for DPS but instead a poison skill tree for DPS, this would fit the nature theme better.

They should of left the Ice skill line for a Necromancer class.

They gave poison to stamina DKs tho, and poison scales with physical damage. So any poison nature skills would have to be on the stamwarden side.

Dark_Lord_Kuro · March 2017

Urza1234 wrote: »

Don't get me wrong, the Animal Companion and Green Balance trees look alright, but the Winter's Embrace tree just does not seem to fit... at all...

Does it not occur to anyone else that Warden should perhaps have been 2 classes, a full nature class and a full ice or ice/water class, rather than 2/3 of a nature class and 1/3 of a frost class?

Fire damage has a full class of its own (Dragonknight), Lightning has a full class of its own (Sorceror), so eventually it would have been nice to have gotten a full Frost based class, but with the inclusion of this weird nature/frost hybrid that after 3 bloody years that seems eminently unlikely.

Most of the Winter's Embrace skills dont arent even particularly inspired, or have any reason that they should be frost themed. It gets:
-Ice Fortress: One generic source of Major Resolve/Ward, I guess every class has to have source of this, but excepting Nightblade which doesnt waste an ability slot for this buff, the other classes sources of Major Res are at least INTERESTING and do something besides simply granting the buff, and besides there are already 2 non-class sources of this buff.
-Crystalized Shield: One generic spell shield, nice for PVP I guess but WHY if we are never likely to receive a full frost class is one of the skills in the single frost tree we get wasted on a skill that does nothing frost related?
-Arctic Wind: One %hp heal, which really has no reason to be frost themed in the first place, and frankly would fit an ice based class fantasy better as a shield, and would probably be more useful as a shield. Why couldnt this have just been a morph for a Green Balance skill. And is it just me or is this skill even shittier than Dragon Blood for DK?

Impaling Shards is alright, except that it only scales off Max HP, which means you're only going to see it in a very limited variety of builds
Sleet Storm (ULT) has to be compared to Consuming Darkness for NB, both cost 200 ult and grant Major Protection, the difference being that Consuming Darkness heals and CCs and lasts longer, whereas Sleet Storm does an extremely meager amount of damage (seriously, based on the screenshots I've seen of a magicka based Warden Sleet Storm either has some of the worst damage scaling of any ult, or it scales off of HP like the rest of Winters Embrace skills). One of the morphs for this seriously does nothing but adds 8% max magicka while slotted, that would be great if Frozen Gate wasnt likely the only **** Winter's Embrace skill that scales off Magicka, and why would you even slot this when if you were doing a Magicka build you could slot a bear that does 3.5k dps PASSIVELY on top of a 40k damage execute for 75 ult (based on current screenshots).

Frozen Gate: Solid looking ability, looks great, they should take it off of Warden and put it on a full fledged frost class.

Honestly, Animal Companion and Green Balance look good enough that people who have been fighting spriggans and wanting their own Nature themed spells for 3 years will be happy, though the lack of a 3rd Nature tree will still be a deep loss compared to what could have been. Winters Embrace though basically spells doom for Frost themed spells in this game, since they will likely never make another attempt at frost magic. Yep, just a couple of spells that ONLY scale with HP, and a few extremely uninspired buffs (and Frozen Gate, the one redeemingly creative ability).

references:
https://imgur.com/gallery/9h8in
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/321834/warden-class-skills-what-we-know-so-far-updated/p1

Actualy
Dk
1/3 fire mage
1/3 dragon biotranformation
1/3 rock/earth mage
(Could count as volcanic class)

Sorcerer
1/3 dark mage
1/3 daedric mage
1/3 storm mage
(Actualy storm doesnt fit the darkness theme of the other 2 but fit sorserer)

Nightblade
1/3 assasin
1/3 ilusionist
1/3 blood mage
(Certaily assasin class)

Templar
1/3 hard light/ yellow lantern lance fighter
1/3 sun mage
1/3 light mage
(Basicly a many-kind-of-light-class)

Warden
1/3 ice mage
1/3 nature mage
1/3 zookeeper
(A life themed class plant animal +the solid form of the element of life ice)

usmcjdking · March 2017

Warden will fulfill the role of buff/debuff. The primary issue being is that this role is flat out not required and unnecessary in PVE. Content will be have to be redesigned and there will need to be role de-homogenization to support buff/debuff and other raiding roles. Yes, that means nerfs.

Jamini · March 2017

Dark_Lord_Kuro wrote: »

Nightblade
3/3 Assasin like
(Certaily assasin class)

1/3 Assassin (Assassination)
1/3 Illusionist (Shadow)
1/3 Bloodmage (Siphoning)

Do you even saptank bro?