Why don't you PvP?

Tan9oSuccka · March 2017

Dao_Jones wrote: »

bulbousb16_ESO wrote: »

People who play MMOs with the intent of never, under any circumstances, combating an enemy player have social anxiety issues.

Where did you study for your armchair psychologist doctorate? University of Phoenix?

Agreed. I was thinking his analysis and degree came directly from "The University of YoloSwag 420 Scopez Blaze Brah".

Turelus · March 2017

Betheny wrote: »

parkham wrote: »

A-holes are everywhere. It is only logical to conclude there would also be A-holes in a video game. The only thing that differentiates PVE A-holes from PVP A-holes is the degree of effect they can have on you, as a player.

If you cannot / will not handle this increased degree of effect on you, as a player - then simply do not go there. No need to even comment on it. Just go do your thing and those who are willing to absorb this increased degree of effect on them, as players, will continue to do so.

You've missed the point. It's not about the combat, it's about the talking.

People don't PVP in a vacuum, people generally PVP in groups and that's when you get exposed to all the group chat in TeamSpeak or whatever voicechat is being used and get to hear all that whining about skills and gear and bitching about others on and on loudly in your own damn lounge

This is why I always tried to keep that out of my raids, reminding people "not now, rant about it on the forums" or just talk over them and start giving new orders so everyone focuses on that.
Nothing kills enjoyment and moral like having to listen to one or more people complain about everything whilst you're trying to enjoy a PvP raid.

There was actually a time when War Council (PC EU EP Alliance) had one raid leader who constantly complained about everything, eventually no one would join his raids because of it.

Betheny · March 2017

parkham wrote: »

A-holes are everywhere. It is only logical to conclude there would also be A-holes in a video game. The only thing that differentiates PVE A-holes from PVP A-holes is the degree of effect they can have on you, as a player.

If you cannot / will not handle this increased degree of effect on you, as a player - then simply do not go there. No need to even comment on it. Just go do your thing and those who are willing to absorb this increased degree of effect on them, as players, will continue to do so.

You've missed the point. It's not about the combat, it's about the talking.

People don't PVP in a vacuum, people generally PVP in groups and that's when you get exposed to all the group chat in TeamSpeak or whatever voicechat is being used and get to hear all that whining about skills and gear and bitching about others on and on loudly in your own damn lounge

Only time I want to hear people talking over my game sounds is when they're asking for help or giving instructions or commands to get something done.

Luigi_Vampa · March 2017

AhPook_Is_Here wrote: »

Typhoios wrote: »

AhPook_Is_Here wrote: »

Typhoios wrote: »

vamp_emily wrote: »

Azurulia wrote: »

It's no secrect that pvp'ers make the best pve'ers.

The situational awareness, on the fly thinking, and quickly reacting, etc. all directly translates to pve content.

I guess you can say PvE players make the best PvP players.

I took my PvE guild to PvP to level their AW skills. In the beginning I wasn't sure if we should hide from the enemy or fight. I hid, and the group fought. The group destroyed all the PvP players.

PvE players work together and know how to listen. This is where most PvP players fail.

Sounds like your organized group beat up random pugs. Now, if you could take your PvE guild and beat a PvP guild in a GvG, I'd be impressed.

It would be the equivalent of me saying "I took my PvP guild to a trial, and we completed it faster than a random zone-formed pug group."

In both content, organization beats randomness. And if you think PvPers lack the ability to work together, you should watch some organized PvP guild videos. I've seen small man groups like Zerg Squad with 12 men just farm DC and EP pugs at bleakers. It is like a slaughterhouse sometimes.

I know you said most, not all, but PvP pugs are no different than PvE pugs. They have about the same attention span and general understanding of what they are doing.

But I think this thread is getting off track. It isn't supposed to be about which players are better.

When you say pugs are you talking about pick up groups or solo players that you think are beneath you?

I'm talking about unorginized pick up groups. No cooridination, no TS, no complimentary builds, no in depth knowledge of their own build. I suppose this also covers solo players that are zerg surfing. I don't think they are beneath me. If people want to casually play and have fun, I hold nothing against them.

It's funny because the whole ulterior argument of this thread is to convince new and inexperienced players to come to Cyrodiil to feed mid to low ranged players that can't, and will never compete with the best groups true-flame offers. The very players who define "PUGS" by your definition. Do you realize the derogatory and contempt laden nomenclature of ESO PVP called "PUG", is working counter to this threads intentions? Any idiot could see this, and you won't sway anyone to join with that point of view.

In almost every other game but this one, "PUG" just means pick up group and often times pick up groups can be very good depending on their player composition, All Stars Basketball is a pick up group. 5 guys from the top 10 rocket arena teams grouping up on a public server is a pick up group. That's what a PUG is; but in ESO culture it's something bad and skilless to be farmed.

I'm not trying to sway anyone to join PvP. Pugs in PvP for me are people who want to play casually, earn some AP, take some keeps and have fun. I'm not trying to put these people down. Yeah, they get farmed sometimes by elite groups in the same way that a PUG group trying vMOL will struggle if they haven't put in the work on their builds, aren't communicating and aren't determined. I'm really not trying to shame anyone here. Also, I get the feeling you think I'm some PvP elitist and I am not. I'm not an elite PvP player that farms millions of AP in elite groups. I PvP and have fun.

Turelus · March 2017

I think another issue (as seen by this thread) is when a player says "I don't like PvP because of this reason" they're told they're wrong and they should be in PvP because they don't know what they're talking about.

You have to remember everyone's opinions of PvP is subject to their own experiences with it.

Now granted someone who's read the forums and gained a negative view may wish to check it out, but if they really have no interest in doing so, then that's their choice.

I like that OP made this thread to shine light on why people don't join, but don't take their reasons for not doing so then tell them that they're wrong and should be in PvP instead.

Kaymorolis · March 2017

bg22 wrote: »

After a (irrational) outcry from the upcoming CP adjustments from much of the forum community, I keep seeing "most of us don't PvP... etc. etc."

Why?

PVP, going back through numerous games that I have played, simply isn't fun for me. Maybe I simply lack the skills needed to be at least competent, but i seem to spend more time dead than alive in PVP.

The only time I have ever enjoyed it was back when I did PVP with a guild in WoW. We were all on chat so it was easier to coordinate our efforts and be successful.

AhPook_Is_Here · March 2017

Typhoios wrote: »

AhPook_Is_Here wrote: »

Typhoios wrote: »

AhPook_Is_Here wrote: »

Typhoios wrote: »

vamp_emily wrote: »

Azurulia wrote: »

It's no secrect that pvp'ers make the best pve'ers.

The situational awareness, on the fly thinking, and quickly reacting, etc. all directly translates to pve content.

I guess you can say PvE players make the best PvP players.

I took my PvE guild to PvP to level their AW skills. In the beginning I wasn't sure if we should hide from the enemy or fight. I hid, and the group fought. The group destroyed all the PvP players.

PvE players work together and know how to listen. This is where most PvP players fail.

Sounds like your organized group beat up random pugs. Now, if you could take your PvE guild and beat a PvP guild in a GvG, I'd be impressed.

It would be the equivalent of me saying "I took my PvP guild to a trial, and we completed it faster than a random zone-formed pug group."

In both content, organization beats randomness. And if you think PvPers lack the ability to work together, you should watch some organized PvP guild videos. I've seen small man groups like Zerg Squad with 12 men just farm DC and EP pugs at bleakers. It is like a slaughterhouse sometimes.

I know you said most, not all, but PvP pugs are no different than PvE pugs. They have about the same attention span and general understanding of what they are doing.

But I think this thread is getting off track. It isn't supposed to be about which players are better.

When you say pugs are you talking about pick up groups or solo players that you think are beneath you?

I'm talking about unorginized pick up groups. No cooridination, no TS, no complimentary builds, no in depth knowledge of their own build. I suppose this also covers solo players that are zerg surfing. I don't think they are beneath me. If people want to casually play and have fun, I hold nothing against them.

It's funny because the whole ulterior argument of this thread is to convince new and inexperienced players to come to Cyrodiil to feed mid to low ranged players that can't, and will never compete with the best groups true-flame offers. The very players who define "PUGS" by your definition. Do you realize the derogatory and contempt laden nomenclature of ESO PVP called "PUG", is working counter to this threads intentions? Any idiot could see this, and you won't sway anyone to join with that point of view.

In almost every other game but this one, "PUG" just means pick up group and often times pick up groups can be very good depending on their player composition, All Stars Basketball is a pick up group. 5 guys from the top 10 rocket arena teams grouping up on a public server is a pick up group. That's what a PUG is; but in ESO culture it's something bad and skilless to be farmed.

I'm not trying to sway anyone to join PvP. Pugs in PvP for me are people who want to play casually, earn some AP, take some keeps and have fun. I'm not trying to put these people down. Yeah, they get farmed sometimes by elite groups in the same way that a PUG group trying vMOL will struggle if they haven't put in the work on their builds, aren't communicating and aren't determined. I'm really not trying to shame anyone here. Also, I get the feeling you think I'm some PvP elitist and I am not. I'm not an elite PvP player that farms millions of AP in elite groups. I PvP and have fun.

Nope, not saying that at all. My point is people really don't see their own culture they just live in it transparently. Like I said earlier, when I had time for this game I liked PVP, but ESO culture drives people away from it, and if people want new players to participate, you have to change that.

Dao_Jones · March 2017

Turelus wrote: »

@Dao_Jones let me show you my post again with the bits I think you didn't take on board when reading highlighted.

@Turelus

No, I read your post. I understood that it was your opinion based on your experiences, and I countered with my opinion, based on my experiences. We're on the same page here.

I think the takeaway is that there's a lot of "personal experience" that colors one's perspective on ESO PvP. People should be sure to form their own opinions, rather than take as gospel anything any of us say here.

Tan9oSuccka wrote: »

Dao_Jones wrote: »

bulbousb16_ESO wrote: »

People who play MMOs with the intent of never, under any circumstances, combating an enemy player have social anxiety issues.

Where did you study for your armchair psychologist doctorate? University of Phoenix?

Agreed. I was thinking his analysis and degree came directly from "The University of YoloSwag 420 Scopez Blaze Brah".

I hear they have a great professional hacky sack team.

Ghanima_Atreides · March 2017

I've done some PvP, enough to get Prox Det and Vigor (on separate characters of course). It's just not my cup of tea. I play solo or with my boyfriend (I don't like grouping with strangers) and enjoy ESO for the story and when I want to test myself against something, I want to do it on my terms and at my own pace. Maybe that makes it less of an achievement than getting many kills against real players, but I don't play this game to show off my mad skillz. I play it to have fun and relax at the end of a long day.

That's it, really.

apostate9 · March 2017

Betheny wrote: »

PVPers are just too angry all the time, always complaining about some skills that wreck the game or some player they think is a ***. Ain't nobody got time for that.

I find it is actually the reverse. PVPers are just into the game, and fired up about their night last night, their guild, their faction, etc.

It seems like it is the Single-Player-Game-Online crowd that are actually hostile. For an example...read this thread. Or basically anything you've ever posted.

IcyDeadPeople · March 2017

During the Psijic beta I never had any plan to PVP, just wandered around the PVE zones exploring for months, approaching the game pretty much like Skyrim. Didn't even use wayshrines for the longest time because I don't use fast travel in Skyrim.

Then one day they asked everyone to go to Cyrodiil to participate in filming a big battle video. I was blown away because it felt like this massive sandbox environment where anything can happen.

They told us all to make our way to this battle at Chalman keep. Looked at the map and it seemed far - I believe I spawned somewhere near Brindle, walked up a nearby mountain and suddenly there was a stampede of 30 enemy players on horses running right at me. (I thought they must have been super rich guys to afford a horse.) An epic chase ensued and they followed me all over that mountain for a while. Finally killed me, but it was so cool, felt like an exciting adventure, more fun than the PVE areas.

I made it to Chalman and it was like an insane war zone with all kinds of explosions and magic spells flying everywhere. That whole day I stayed in Cyrodiil and had so much fun all over the map. Even in the little delves and towns you could find enemy players doing quests, ganking or people who came to gank the gankers etc.

Later I went to check out Bruma, which was one of my favorite towns in Oblivion. What's funny is I didn't even understand that you could crouch to hide from enemy players. I kept getting killed inside one of the buildings by what I thought was a pack of invisible vampires.

What I liked most was that you sort of make up your own quests, and it feels a lot more like the single player TES games compared to the PVE zones. At this time, everybody still thought there was some way you could get to the Imperial City, and a friend and I kept trying to swim across at different spots. That was our quest!

Not even sure exactly what the appeal is, but nearly 4 years later I'm still hooked on the PVP in this game.

Bouldercleave · March 2017

For me, than answer is really pretty simple.

Why don't I PvP? Just not my thing anymore.

I'm older (48) so my reaction times are slower, I prefer to play in first person for immersion, and I have ZERO tolerance for immaturity. NONE of these three things lend to PvP well.

The ONE time that I ventured into Cyrodil I busted ass solo in a troll cave for about 30 minutes (had like 12 CP at the time) only to get ganked by a group of people camping the skyshard - 4 teabags later, I've never been back.

apostate9 · March 2017

Dantaria wrote: »

ADarklore wrote: »

Because I don't like playing against other players, I've never been a 'competitive' person and don't need to feel better than someone else. I do not like 'fast-paced' combat, I don't like whining and complaining, I don't like tea-baggers and their arrogance, I don't like unpredictability. I also don't like games/content that induces any type of stress.

I only solo PvE and I like the pacing, I like the structure, I like knowing pretty much what to expect from every scenario. I like knowing that even should I die, the enemy won't taunt and act like an a**... and if I beat them, they won't linger on with a grudge or try to report me for 'cheating' simply because they lost.

So yes, I prefer a game that's EASY, that isn't stressful, and that's pretty predictable and routine. Some may find that boring, but it's what I enjoy... I am very much a creature of habit and am loathe to do anything spontaneous.

Seconding this with the power of thousand suns.

PvP tends to bring out worst in people. In PvE there are only "we". In PvP there are "we" and "them". And when there are "we" and "them", things go south very quickly.

I had to go to Cyro to farm my Vigor and Caltrops. The experience has been... harrowing. I would be happy to never go there again. Because "OLOLOLOL HAVE YOU SEEN THESE SMURFS LMAO". In PvP we're suddenly not people playing and enjoying the same game. We're enemies. And I have no desire to be someone's enemy.

Yes, things also go south in PvE. There are "Heal, you lazy ***", "Your DPS s**k", etc, but the nature of the content is that you are a team. You have to calm down and make it. Together.

I'll stick with "Come on, guys, we can do this" rather then "Olololol, let's screw this s**kers".

Really? It seems like the ESO Forums bring out the worst in people.

In Cyrodiil, I am surrounded by friends, guildies and allies having a good time, fighting "enemies" that don't really hate us. Cuz you know...it's a game. Conversely 90% of the pug dungeon groups I have ever been in turned into a dumpster fire. Maybe we aren't playing the same game?

bg22 · March 2017

Kaymorolis wrote: »

bg22 wrote: »

After a (irrational) outcry from the upcoming CP adjustments from much of the forum community, I keep seeing "most of us don't PvP... etc. etc."

Why?

PVP, going back through numerous games that I have played, simply isn't fun for me. Maybe I simply lack the skills needed to be at least competent, but i seem to spend more time dead than alive in PVP.

The only time I have ever enjoyed it was back when I did PVP with a guild in WoW. We were all on chat so it was easier to coordinate our efforts and be successful.

Understandable.

I won't even PvP with a group of ppl unless they're using voice chat (included in the game in console).

If you ever decide to give it ago, find a group/guild that actually work together. It'll change everything.

ProfesseurFreder · March 2017

I strongly believe that players should not be able to profit from beating up other players. It encourages bullies -- and I'm like Captain America: I hate bullies. There's no place for that kind of crap in a community-style game. And when I see how rude some players are in PvE, and how badly some of them act even when they can't really do anything to you other than steal a rune that you may have fought for, I can only imagine how badly behaved some of these PUNKS must be in a PvP situation.

uzbachchi · March 2017

Don't like competitive play, prefer cooperative. That's why. Everyone's different. What a boring place the world would be if everyone was the same.

bg22 · March 2017

Ghanima_Atreides wrote: »

I've done some PvP, enough to get Prox Det and Vigor (on separate characters of course). It's just not my cup of tea. I play solo or with my boyfriend (I don't like grouping with strangers) and enjoy ESO for the story and when I want to test myself against something, I want to do it on my terms and at my own pace. Maybe that makes it less of an achievement than getting many kills against real players, but I don't play this game to show off my mad skillz. I play it to have fun and relax at the end of a long day.

That's it, really.

My gf is the same way. However, once I introduced her to the guild and did some group PvP she changed her outlook, and even said "that was much more fun than I thought it was going to be."

I'm not huge on grouping w strangers either, which is why I'm interactive within my guilds and have made some good friends (that I've never really met).

RebornV3x · March 2017

Because I disconnect every hour since double Ap ended

apostate9 · March 2017

Vercingetorix wrote: »

I have no interest in any PvP content in any game. The primary problem with PvP is that it doesn't bring anything constructive to the table. With PvE and Co-Op content you work together with others towards a collective goal - everyone is rewarded and everyone learns to work together. No one complains that someone's build is "OP" or "unfair" because the group's goal is to finish the content and everyone is going to get a reward. Co-Op (PvE) is CONSTRUCTIVE. You BUILD people up in PvE.

However, with PvP nothing is gained by others participating in the content, only one person at most gets anything at all - chiefly a shallow ego boost and for what? Do you have such low self-worth that the only way you can justify yourself to the world is to beat on others? PvP at its core in ANY game is DESTRUCTIVE, content that devolves into animals tearing each other apart over a f*** percentage.
Now, the problem is specifically with Cyrodiil and the terrible attempt to put PvE content in PvP. That's the big issue for most players. We mostly want to quest in peace, complete achievements and hunt skyshards in peace. Some of us even go out of our way to AVOID combat, sneaking halfway across the map just so we can be left alone. No one enjoys that. The best solution is to put a "Pre-War" Cyrodiil with only PvE allowed (not even duels) and then keep the "Alliance War" Cyrodiil with PvP. Next, the changes to abilities in PvP should be governed by the Battle Spirit buff and PvE content should be isolated from these changes.

People who are against separating PvP and PvE are the immature children that need to hurt others to have self-worth. By providing the option to engage in PvP and separating its "balance" changes, no one is harmed by ether side of the table. Isolation is the solution to Cyrodiil.

Another Single-Player-Onliner with anecdotal evidence that PVPers are "mean"...who then writes a mean 5000 word screed about it.

Funny. And dripping with irony.

bg22 · March 2017

IcyDeadPeople wrote: »

During the Psijic beta I never had any plan to PVP, just wandered around the PVE zones exploring for months, approaching the game pretty much like Skyrim. Didn't even use wayshrines for the longest time because I don't use fast travel in Skyrim.

Then one day they asked everyone to go to Cyrodiil to participate in filming a big battle video. I was blown away because it felt like some kind of massive sandbox environment where anything can happen.

They told us all to make our way to this battle at Chalman keep. Looked at the map and it seemed far - I believe I spawned somewhere near Brindle, walked up a nearby mountain and suddenly there was a stampede of 30 enemy players on horses running right at me. (I thought they must have been super rich guys to afford a horse.) They chased me all over the mountain for a little while and finally killed me, but it was so cool, a lot more fun than the PVE areas.

I made it to Chalman and it was like an insane war zone with all kinds of explosions and magic spells flying everywhere. That whole day I stayed in Cyrodiil and had so much fun all over the map. Even in the little delves and towns you could find enemy players doing quests, ganking or people who came to gank the gankers etc.

What I liked most was that you sort of make up your own quests, and it feels a lot more like the single player TES games compared to the PVE zones. At this time, everybody still thought there was some way you could get to the Imperial City, and a friend and I kept trying to swim across at different spots. That was our quest!

Not even sure exactly what the appeal is, but nearly 4 years later I'm still hooked on the PVP in this game.

Awesome!

That's exactly how I see it, and still remember my first time in Cyrodiil...

At PC launch, after a few days of leveling, a RL friend and I ventured into Cyrodiil. The feeling was awesome! We were so unsure of what to expect, and where ppl might be hiding that we stealthed (yes the entire time) and fought our way from EP to DC's main gates. It took hours to stealth there, and it was awesome.

Never in a video game had I experienced a feeling of adventure like that.

Ghanima_Atreides · March 2017

bg22 wrote: »

My gf is the same way. However, once I introduced her to the guild and did some group PvP she changed her outlook, and even said "that was much more fun than I thought it was going to be."

I'm not huge on grouping w strangers either, which is why I'm interactive within my guilds and have made some good friends (that I've never really met).

That's great.

But I just prefer solo/duo play (in PvE as well), being an introvert and all.

apostate9 · March 2017

Browiseth wrote: »

it makes me want to die

literally, i can't think of a time i've been more stressed out than the last time i pvp'd

plus the balance is some of the worst i've ever seen in any game, and it just amazes me that people can put up with that

also when you say "most people who have been introduced to pvp end up liking it" or whatever statistic you just made up, you're not including the more than likely larger number of people that checked it out and brushed it aside for being the awful mess that it is

Huh. It didn't make you want to die when we did it together every week for like a year.

amasuriel · March 2017

Because I don't like riding simulators

Seriously though, I just find it boring. Periodically I go back to level skills on new chars, and I find it boring every time. Lots of riding around. Keep sieges and resource flipping is fun the first 2-3 times but quickly because very boring. The combat is usually short and 1 sided, since zergs are about numbers, and small group tends to be about ambushes. Either way it seems less about strategic combat and more about sudden overwhelming force.

I'll be curious to try the battlegrounds, since (presumably) there will be less riding and balanced teams (in terms of numbers at least)

Betheny · March 2017

apostate9 wrote: »

Vercingetorix wrote: »

I have no interest in any PvP content in any game. The primary problem with PvP is that it doesn't bring anything constructive to the table. With PvE and Co-Op content you work together with others towards a collective goal - everyone is rewarded and everyone learns to work together. No one complains that someone's build is "OP" or "unfair" because the group's goal is to finish the content and everyone is going to get a reward. Co-Op (PvE) is CONSTRUCTIVE. You BUILD people up in PvE.

However, with PvP nothing is gained by others participating in the content, only one person at most gets anything at all - chiefly a shallow ego boost and for what? Do you have such low self-worth that the only way you can justify yourself to the world is to beat on others? PvP at its core in ANY game is DESTRUCTIVE, content that devolves into animals tearing each other apart over a f*** percentage.
Now, the problem is specifically with Cyrodiil and the terrible attempt to put PvE content in PvP. That's the big issue for most players. We mostly want to quest in peace, complete achievements and hunt skyshards in peace. Some of us even go out of our way to AVOID combat, sneaking halfway across the map just so we can be left alone. No one enjoys that. The best solution is to put a "Pre-War" Cyrodiil with only PvE allowed (not even duels) and then keep the "Alliance War" Cyrodiil with PvP. Next, the changes to abilities in PvP should be governed by the Battle Spirit buff and PvE content should be isolated from these changes.

People who are against separating PvP and PvE are the immature children that need to hurt others to have self-worth. By providing the option to engage in PvP and separating its "balance" changes, no one is harmed by ether side of the table. Isolation is the solution to Cyrodiil.

Another Single-Player-Onliner with anecdotal evidence that PVPers are "mean"

I don't mind a touch of meanness, it's the whining and bitching that gets to me, PVPers are depressing (they seem to be angry and depressed about everything) more than they are mean.

Tasear · March 2017

I don't like to kill people.

THEDKEXPERIENCE · March 2017

ProfesseurFreder wrote: »

I strongly believe that players should not be able to profit from beating up other players. It encourages bullies -- and I'm like Captain America: I hate bullies. There's no place for that kind of crap in a community-style game. And when I see how rude some players are in PvE, and how badly some of them act even when they can't really do anything to you other than steal a rune that you may have fought for, I can only imagine how badly behaved some of these PUNKS must be in a PvP situation.

I mostly enjoy bullying bullies. No seriously. It's about my favorite thing in the world and has been since I was about 10 years old. Under most circumstances I'm about the most fun to be around person imaginable, but I live for the times when I get to put know it all jerks in their place.

Also ... Captain America is a bit of a bully bullier as well if you think about it.

vamp_emily · March 2017

apostate9 wrote: »

Really? It seems like the ESO Forums bring out the worst in people.

In Cyrodiil, I am surrounded by friends, guildies and allies having a good time, fighting "enemies" that don't really hate us. Cuz you know...it's a game. Conversely 90% of the pug dungeon groups I have ever been in turned into a dumpster fire. Maybe we aren't playing the same game?

I play PvP because I enjoy it. The problem with me I get all excited at times and over react and people take it the wrong way.

I can honestly say.. PvP is very toxic. I think it has made me a mean person sometimes. This is just a sample of what I have to deal with at times.

That message was not from my enemy, it was someone from my own alliance. The message made me think for a few minutes. Am I really that bad? What did I do to deserve that? I was sad for a few minutes, but I just put them on ignore and went back to smashing faces.

apostate9 · March 2017

THEDKEXPERIENCE wrote: »

Violynne wrote: »

bg22 wrote: »

I used to suck at PvP when I first started. I stuck it out, died enough times to figure out how to not suck, and now I love it.

It usually boils down to people not having enough defensive stuff slotted (self heals, defensive buffs, offensive debuffs). Give up some damage for survivability and watch your survival rate double instantly.

Just some tips if you decide to give it another go!

Thanks for the tips! One of my tasks is to understand gear/weapon/armor attributes and go from there.

Dao_Jones wrote: »

Note: I play on PC NA, so I'm only speaking from that perspective. I have no idea how PvP on consoles works differently. (If it does.)

Turelus wrote: »

I have been a PvP player since I started MMO games and ESO has so far been the most hostile community for it. Now sure this is my own personal experiences, but it's easy for me to see why players are put of PvP.

Really? ESO?

ESO has been the most hostile community for PvP that you have ever seen?

I'm sorry, but I just... I just absolutely can not reconcile that with my experience playing PvP in ESO.

There are five things right off the bat that make ESO's PvP about ten thousand times better than PvP in almost every other MMO I've played in the last ~12 years:

1. Anyone can resurrect you with a soul gem. That is an enormous thing; it means that anyone can help out a downed player. As a result, I've never been in a battle where someone failed to rez me once there was a break in the fighting. (In fact, I've been in many sieges where people risked their own lives to duck in and rez a player in the middle of a fight.) That alone sparks a sense of camaraderie among people on the same side.

2. Anyone can be a healer. Choosing to heal instead of DPS means you're not focused on individual success, but team success, and that's a huge paradigm shift from other games where a zerg of players was basically just 15-20+ individuals who didn't give a *** about anyone other than themselves. (Yeah, it still rewards good CP, but that doesn't change the value.)

3. Zerging is a good thing. People who think that "good" PvP is solo ganking or small team marauding need to disabuse themselves of that notion. In ESO, one of the most useful (and rewarding) things you can do is ball up with a lot of other people, and join the fight against the enemy faction. The goal of ESO PvP is to own land, and anything you're doing that doesn't work toward that end is essentially useless to your side. That solo Stamblade out ganking randoms? He's in it for himself. That level 10 newb who grabbed a catapult and joined 12 other people to flip Fort Ash to deny an enemy faction their Emperor? That dude is a hero.

4. You can be useful at any level. You don't need to wait to level 50 to contribute in PvP. You can walk in at level 10, and immediately contribute to success by healing, manning siege, rezzing players, or even just getting out there and tossing some heat at the enemy. A lower-level player isn't dragging his or her side down, and can actually do pretty well once they know what they're doing.

5. You don't hear the other side's chatter, and you don't see their names. That is huge. HUGE. Because that means you don't hear their smack talk. You don't hear their insults. Hell - you don't even know who just killed you. (Or you killed.) People who haven't PvP'd in ESO probably imagine their horrible experiences in other MMOs, and damn it by association. But man - your enemy in ESO is just a faceless nobody under a faction-colored shield. They're NPCs with slightly smarter AI pathing.

So, look. Is ESO's PvP the best thing ever? No, definitely not. It's not even the best PvP/RvR I've seen in an MMO. But man - it is absolutely nowhere near "the most hostile community for PvP" that I've ever seen.

Slow clap.

Also, consoles are the exact same way. ESO PVP is hug fest in comparison to almost every other online game. Try playing a FIFA drop in game or two. Within an hour your headset will be filled with racist slurs and 1970's *** music.

Additional slow-clap.

JKorr · March 2017

THEDKEXPERIENCE wrote: »

JKorr wrote: »

I'm not competitive. I have autodecline turned on for duels. I don't care if someone else can kill my character. About the only reason I go to Cyrodiil is to craft set gear for guildmates.

I honestly don't see the point in pvp. Congratulations. You have a build set up for pvp, you're geared up for pvp, and you killed my character that isn't set up for pvp, isn't min/maxed for anything, and wears crafted gear. Not to mention I don't bother to fight back. I don't care if you can kill me or not. I just want to be able to go make armor for someone. I'm interested in playing the game, not competing with other players, who, from the ones I've encountered on the occasions I've gone to Cyrodiil, are just a hair off from rabid psychopaths. I've had people try to tell me that the player who killed me over and over again in IC the last time I went there, just outside the crafting station door was looking for a good fight. Personally, I rather doubt that. The player waited until I survived a fight with the daedra before attacking, you know, when you're low on health/magic/stamina because you've been fighting? Second hint; I put my weapons away and didn't fight back. Even if the player missed the clues the first three times he killed me, he should have figured it out by the 4th time. I wasn't going to fight, period. I guess he finally got bored with blocking the crafting station because the 5th time he didn't bother to attack me. I made the gear, left the station and got killed so I could get out of there.

That might be fun for some types of players, but me? No. Not really. I wholeheartedly agree with Nestor. I would cheerfully support a pvp only server for the people who want to pvp all the time. Especially if that meant a pve only instance of Cyrodiil that I could go and pve/explore/actually have fun in without the pvpers to ruin the fun.

So much wow here.

- Duels and PVP in Cyrodiil are extraordinarily different. A good dueler is like a UFC fighter. A good Cyrodiil PVPer is more like a soldier. Put a UFC fighter in a cage with an unarmed soldier and the UFC guy would destroy the soldier. But put 100 armed soldiers against 100 armed UFC fighters on a battlefield and the soldiers might wipe them out 100 to nothing. It's apples and oranges.
- If someone is in front of me you're getting attacked. Level 23 or CP 600. I don't care. Your just in my way.
- Not fighting back is the worst thing you can do. You're a free sack of Alliance Points. It's not a PVPers fault for wanting to PVP in PVP.
- Camping a blacksmith is low. I agree there. Still ... put up a fight. At least try.
- I've found that people who describe PVPers as rabid psychopaths generally need to look in the mirror.
- You gave one example where one person acted like a jerk, while you "fought back" in the least effective way possible. In my view, people of your kind are way more of the problem with PVP then one jerk ganker.

I guess its a pvp mindset thing; what is so hard to understand about "I do not want to fight."?

Yes, I'm a free sack of alliance points. Yes, you can kill me. I might be in "in front of you" or "in your way" however it isn't because I'm trying to be. I DO NOT WANT TO FIGHT, PERIOD. If the devs put duplicates of the 3 IC crafting stations out in "the world" I would never bother to step foot in Cyrodiil. I'm not complaining about getting killed. I know I'm going to get killed multiple times probably every single time I go to the IC to craft gear for someone.

If you are a npc enemy, then yes, I do take a lot of pleasure in slaughtering you the most efficient way possible. I admit to snickering when I use my werewolf to shred npc enemies to little bits of hamburger. Since this is all on the pve side of things, very few other players are affected in any way by this. Not sure that qualifies as "borderline rabid psychopath" though, since I'm not disrupting other player's games or causing them any issues at all.

See the above caps; I DO NOT WANT TO FIGHT, PERIOD. Sorry if that spoils your "gotta kill them all" feeling. I didn't fight back the least effective way, I didn't fight back at all. If I spoiled the ganker's day by not fighting back maybe its even; he spoiled my "don't fight run in craft gear run out" attempt.

"My kind" of player who has no interest in pvp and doesn't want to pvp and *won't* pvp for whatever reasons we might have is why I would be happy to advocate for a separate open world pvp server for all the pvpers who think pve players who want to do pve/craft/explore in the pvp area cause problems and spoil thier game. I think it was Nestor who said make a pve only instance for doing some pve exploring, set it before the war, or in a "Meridia's Special Snowflake Zone" that you can do after Cadwell's Gold so no dastardly espionage/spying/evil plots can cause any issues in the pvp war.

Know what though? Every time that "separate instance" thing is brought up, pvpers rage. No matter how many times its pointed out that "my kind" of player who doesn't want to pvp, and won't pvp, but does want the books, pve quests, and skyshards are contributing to the player cap and blocking out pvpers who do want to fight the war. Of course, it could be the pvpers who really don't want a "fair fight" and just want to gank pve players who complain so much. :shrug:

Betheny · March 2017

*almost forgot - and the drama. There's so much drama in PVP (part of the anger and depression thing they do I guess).