black rose for pve tanking

Lynx7386 · March 2017

Is it worth using? I've spent quite a bit of time and money collecting the black rose set and jewelry, but I'm not sure I even really notice the difference in resource return from Constitution. Right now i'm using the set for my nightblade tank buy I was planning to use it on a hybrid warden tank in morrowind.

paulsimonps · March 2017

Lynx7386 wrote: »

Is it worth using? I've spent quite a bit of time and money collecting the black rose set and jewelry, but I'm not sure I even really notice the difference in resource return from Constitution. Right now i'm using the set for my nightblade tank buy I was planning to use it on a hybrid warden tank in morrowind.

If you have sustain issues then Black Rose will take care of that most likely, there is a reason after all why its so useful in PvP. I will say that you will most likely notice your Constitution if it was removed. Its really strong and one of the best sources of resource management in the game for Tanks. I for example have my block cost really low, at 88 and my constitution gives me 1302 or 162.75 every 0.5s which is the max rate which you can be attributed cost for blocking. I basically gain almost double the stamina and a lot of magicka while perma blocking in PvE and so if I put on Black Rose it would bump it up to 1757 or 219 every 0.5s. Giving me 131 stamina back every time I block, and since most single target bosses doesn't hit that fast I will gain even more. So yea, Black Rose works in PvE but you want to get to a point where you don't have to use it. You want to get sets that gives more group wide buffs or debuffs for enemies.

DRXHarbinger · March 2017

What traits did you get it in?

casparian · March 2017

Even though BR is meant for PVP, it's really not bad for tanking certain dungeons (mainly those with a lot of adds), especially if you're a non-DK tank and are looking for ways to get resources back. I wouldn't put it in on my list of top tanking sets, and I wouldn't take it into a trial, but it's definitely better than other purported tanking sets like Footman or Armor Master.

DRXHarbinger · March 2017

If it's sturdy it's pretty good tbh in a trial like AA and HRC. Parts where you need to self sustain. Pair it with leeching or defending warrior and sentinel set you'll be self sustaining. If it's divines or anything else it's pretty poor. It's one of those sets that excel against singular or few hard hitters. If you're dealing with tons of trash like sanctum (holding mantikora and lamia on serpent) then you probably won't see the benefit of the passive due to the amount of hits you're taking.

Lynx7386 · March 2017

DRXHarbinger wrote: »

What traits did you get it in?

Mostly infused and impenetrable.

Lately I've been running black rose with ebon armory on my nightblade, I've got right around 45k health buffed which is pretty nice but even with black rose my resource management is terrible. Unless I constantly have Siphoning attacks up and keep mashing light attack on everything my stamina just can't keep up.

I've been considering getting the green pact set since I haven't been able to find an ebon weapon or shield, which would let me run a monster set like engine guardian or rkugamz for extra resources. Though, I could mix green pact and ebon for an absurd 55-60k health...

paulsimonps · March 2017

Lynx7386 wrote: »

DRXHarbinger wrote: »

What traits did you get it in?

Mostly infused and impenetrable.

Lately I've been running black rose with ebon armory on my nightblade, I've got right around 45k health buffed which is pretty nice but even with black rose my resource management is terrible. Unless I constantly have Siphoning attacks up and keep mashing light attack on everything my stamina just can't keep up.

I've been considering getting the green pact set since I haven't been able to find an ebon weapon or shield, which would let me run a monster set like engine guardian or rkugamz for extra resources. Though, I could mix green pact and ebon for an absurd 55-60k health...

Why would you want that much HP thou?

Lynx7386 · March 2017

paulsimonps wrote: »

Lynx7386 wrote: »

DRXHarbinger wrote: »

What traits did you get it in?

Mostly infused and impenetrable.

Lately I've been running black rose with ebon armory on my nightblade, I've got right around 45k health buffed which is pretty nice but even with black rose my resource management is terrible. Unless I constantly have Siphoning attacks up and keep mashing light attack on everything my stamina just can't keep up.

I've been considering getting the green pact set since I haven't been able to find an ebon weapon or shield, which would let me run a monster set like engine guardian or rkugamz for extra resources. Though, I could mix green pact and ebon for an absurd 55-60k health...

Why would you want that much HP thou?

Normally I wouldnt, but some of the warden's abilities scale on Max health, might end up being useful

paulsimonps · March 2017

Lynx7386 wrote: »

paulsimonps wrote: »

Lynx7386 wrote: »

DRXHarbinger wrote: »

What traits did you get it in?

Mostly infused and impenetrable.

Lately I've been running black rose with ebon armory on my nightblade, I've got right around 45k health buffed which is pretty nice but even with black rose my resource management is terrible. Unless I constantly have Siphoning attacks up and keep mashing light attack on everything my stamina just can't keep up.

I've been considering getting the green pact set since I haven't been able to find an ebon weapon or shield, which would let me run a monster set like engine guardian or rkugamz for extra resources. Though, I could mix green pact and ebon for an absurd 55-60k health...

Why would you want that much HP thou?

Normally I wouldnt, but some of the warden's abilities scale on Max health, might end up being useful

The only 2 that scales of Max Health is Arctic Wind and Impaling Shards. In PvE you won't find much use for that much HP even through the slight increase in damage. The one that gives the most damage was the Arctic Wind and you don't really want to be spamming that one. Its a good heal and good damage but you should be spending your time taunting or CC'ing the Trash. On bosses its even less useful cause its mostly about the AoE damage with those 2 abilities. I can see the use of a crap ton of HP in PvP but not in PvE. I actually did it myself in PvP while testing the Battlegrounds and 70k HP was actually really nice. But I should have put more points into Elemental Expert.

Oreyn_Bearclaw · March 2017

Lynx7386 wrote: »

DRXHarbinger wrote: »

What traits did you get it in?

Mostly infused and impenetrable.

Lately I've been running black rose with ebon armory on my nightblade, I've got right around 45k health buffed which is pretty nice but even with black rose my resource management is terrible. Unless I constantly have Siphoning attacks up and keep mashing light attack on everything my stamina just can't keep up.

I've been considering getting the green pact set since I haven't been able to find an ebon weapon or shield, which would let me run a monster set like engine guardian or rkugamz for extra resources. Though, I could mix green pact and ebon for an absurd 55-60k health...

The two things in bold are very much related.

Lynx7386 · March 2017

Oreyn_Bearclaw wrote: »

Lynx7386 wrote: »

DRXHarbinger wrote: »

What traits did you get it in?

Mostly infused and impenetrable.

Lately I've been running black rose with ebon armory on my nightblade, I've got right around 45k health buffed which is pretty nice but even with black rose my resource management is terrible. Unless I constantly have Siphoning attacks up and keep mashing light attack on everything my stamina just can't keep up.

I've been considering getting the green pact set since I haven't been able to find an ebon weapon or shield, which would let me run a monster set like engine guardian or rkugamz for extra resources. Though, I could mix green pact and ebon for an absurd 55-60k health...

The two things in bold are very much related.

Do you have a solution to offer or just sarcastic criticism?

Liofa · March 2017

Lynx7386 wrote: »

Oreyn_Bearclaw wrote: »

Lynx7386 wrote: »

DRXHarbinger wrote: »

What traits did you get it in?

Mostly infused and impenetrable.

Lately I've been running black rose with ebon armory on my nightblade, I've got right around 45k health buffed which is pretty nice but even with black rose my resource management is terrible. Unless I constantly have Siphoning attacks up and keep mashing light attack on everything my stamina just can't keep up.

I've been considering getting the green pact set since I haven't been able to find an ebon weapon or shield, which would let me run a monster set like engine guardian or rkugamz for extra resources. Though, I could mix green pact and ebon for an absurd 55-60k health...

The two things in bold are very much related.

Do you have a solution to offer or just sarcastic criticism?

Learn fight and keep Siphoning Attacks up . Light weave your skills . Only place you have to perma block is vAA axes . Get yourself a set of Sturdy items there . Done . As someone who played all classes as tank , I can easily say , if played correctly , Nightblade has better sustain than DK . Both in Magicka and Stamina . In short , learn your class first .

Lynx7386 · March 2017

I don't have issues when I'm able to keep siphoning up and keep light attacks going, it's when those lapse because I'm having to use other abilities too much that stamina tanks.

He was saying that the reason my resources suffer is because I'm running at 45k health.

Liofa · March 2017

Lynx7386 wrote: »

I don't have issues when I'm able to keep siphoning up and keep light attacks going, it's when those lapse because I'm having to use other abilities too much that stamina tanks.

He was saying that the reason my resources suffer is because I'm running at 45k health.

Having more Max Resources doesn't change the resource return from Siphoning Attacks . Your Health can be 100k and your Stamina can be 10k . That skill will still give you the same number .

About your resource management issue . You are using unnecessary skills too much . There is no other explanation . What I did while I was NB tanking was this . Keep Siphoning Attacks up all the time . Keep Pierce Armor and Heroic Slash up all the time . Keep Mirage up all the time . Rest of my time is spent with light attack weaving Swallow Soul/Funnel Health . As you know , dealing damage with direct attack skills (like Funnel Health) has a 10% chance to give you more than 2k stamina and magicka . Every light weave will restore almost 1k already . Your Funnel Health will be almost free . Light attacks themselves should be enough to keep your buffs and debuffs up . Btw , I was tanking with Tava's Favor , Ebon and Blood Spawn . Around 35k Health with horn , around 20k magicka and stamina . It was very , very easy to sustain .

paulsimonps · March 2017

Lynx7386 wrote: »

I don't have issues when I'm able to keep siphoning up and keep light attacks going, it's when those lapse because I'm having to use other abilities too much that stamina tanks.

He was saying that the reason my resources suffer is because I'm running at 45k health.

Wasting sets to buff HP will lower sustain. Also even if you don't use sets. While yes your resource return from constitution and siphoning isn't effected by it, the Undaunted command and shards are, as well if you start with a higher base resource you give yourself a lot more room to work with and it takes longer until you are at zero. So higher max stats does matter for resource management in that regard.

Oreyn_Bearclaw · March 2017

Lynx7386 wrote: »

Oreyn_Bearclaw wrote: »

Lynx7386 wrote: »

DRXHarbinger wrote: »

What traits did you get it in?

Mostly infused and impenetrable.

Lately I've been running black rose with ebon armory on my nightblade, I've got right around 45k health buffed which is pretty nice but even with black rose my resource management is terrible. Unless I constantly have Siphoning attacks up and keep mashing light attack on everything my stamina just can't keep up.

I've been considering getting the green pact set since I haven't been able to find an ebon weapon or shield, which would let me run a monster set like engine guardian or rkugamz for extra resources. Though, I could mix green pact and ebon for an absurd 55-60k health...

The two things in bold are very much related.

Do you have a solution to offer or just sarcastic criticism?

I dont claim to be an expert on NB tanking. I will generally defer to paul, as he is an excellent tank theorycrafter. The point I was trying to make is that your health is way too high. There are definitely unorthodox tank builds that allow for very high health, but I wouldnt recommend them to most people. This game is all about trade offs. If you have 15k more health than the average tank, you probably have about 12-13k less of other resources than the average tank. Every Health boost could be boosting something else, that's my point. A lot of people try to stack health when they build for tanking. It makes sense at first glance, but in practice it's generally not good. I cringe in group finder every time I see a tank north of 40k health.

Lynx7386 · March 2017

So would it be better to use one set for health, like plague doctor, and then put my attributes into magicka and stamina, or would it be better to keep attributes in health and use another set?

Oreyn_Bearclaw · March 2017

Lynx7386 wrote: »

So would it be better to use one set for health, like plague doctor, and then put my attributes into magicka and stamina, or would it be better to keep attributes in health and use another set?

I dont think there is "right way" to get your stats. What I do, and what I think is pretty common practice, select the two sets you plan to use, largely based on the 5 piece bonuses (look for group utility, not stat increases). Common tank sets, Dragon (ult cost reduction), Tavas (ult regen), Alkosh (enemey debuff), Ebon (health buff or group), etc (not an exhaustive list by any stretch), then do the following. Use Tri glyph enchants on everything as they give the most total stats. Eat purple food, set your bars and passives. Then respec your attributes and add health a few at a time until you hit 30k. Then divide among stam and magic as you see fit. I think if you bring your health down, you will find that a lot of your resource problems are taken care of.