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[SUGGESTION] Make 2H Items count as 2 peices

  • kathandira
    kathandira
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    I would very much like to have the option to have 2x5pc sets and 1 2pc set for my Healer.
    PS4-NA. Breton Templar Healer, Bosmer Stamplar, Breton Magplar, Orsimer StamDK, Dunmer MagDK, Khajiit StamNB, Dunmer MagNB, Argonian Warden Tank, Altmer Magsorc
  • CP5
    CP5
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    Hurika wrote: »
    Few questions about this though...
    • Would the mats to craft a 2h be increased to that of crafting 2 x 1h?
    • Would the amount of tempers be doubled at each stage to upgrade a 2h (ie 16 gold tempering alloy, etc)?
    • Would the drop rate of 2h weapons from vMA, dungeons, etc be cut in half? (have to farm for 2 weapons if DW, not for 2h

    I'm not saying it shouldn't but folks need to consider other things in the game.

    I think a better solution that would address this would not be to have 2h weapons count as 2 pieces but to add off hand items as others have suggested in the past. They would hold set piece slots but not enchantments and would need to be upgraded to enhance the power of the set they belong.
  • FluffyReachWitch
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    I would like to see this as well. Simply put, it's a difference between 11 slots and 12 slots.

    With two-handed weapons -- unless you want to sacrifice having two 5-piece sets, you have only one part of a monster set, or you have a master or maelstrom weapon (way less accessible than weapons for crafted and dropped sets) -- one of your pieces isn't contributing to any set at all.

    Two-handed weapons already have some features that put them on par with one-hand and shield or dual wield combos. Their traits are roughly twice as good, for example. That helps make up for them taking up two slots while being only one contribution to your build.

    And it's not just about raw weapon strength. We're talking about two-handed weapon users having to make harder decisions about sets in general. It's having to choose between using up slots for weaker buffs or getting, say, the no speed penalty when sneaking bonus from Night's Silence. Or the lower resurrection time from Kagrenac's Hope. A dual-wield player can easily run two 5-piece sets and then slap on a full monster helm set for all advantages and the monster helm procs.

    In short, allowing us two set pieces on staves, bows, and two-handed melee weapons would give us the same freedom as dual-wield and sword-board users.
  • Techkey1
    Techkey1
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    I would have to agree. I'm sure that there is a way to make it good and efficient without a problem or imbalance. Funny thing about the bow, I have always thought that the bow should have had two slots being the second slot could/should have been for different types of crafted arrows.
    CP 477 | Dark Elf | Dragon Knight DPS | Ebonheart Pact | Solo Player | No alts

    More of a solo player. Learning to be more guild social lol. LOVING THE MORROWIND EXPANSION!!!

    ESO PC NA

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    Death I will never see.
    Immortality awaits me.
  • Valen_Byte
    Valen_Byte
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    no
    ***Dixon Kay MagDK FORMER EMPEROR***Deca Dix MagDK FORMER EMPORER***Valonious MagPlar FORMER EMPEROR***
    GM of BYTE
    MAY YOUR DEATHS BE SWIFT, AND YOUR LOAD SCREENS LONG.
    And alien tears will fill for him, Pity’s long-broken urn, For his mourners will be outcast men, And outcasts always mourn
  • joshjda
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    Actually the better way for them to achieve this would be by making all the monster shoulders into a cape item only available in the monster sets low defense item like a belt. You could then use a normal shoulder that would be the right way to balance it.
    Edited by joshjda on February 7, 2017 9:56PM
  • Draconerus
    Draconerus
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    joshjda wrote: »
    Actually the better way for them to achieve this would be by making all the monster shoulders into a cape item only available in the monster sets low defense item like a belt. You could then use a normal shoulder that would be the right way to balance it.

    That would still give duel wield specs an advantage though.
    Draconerus
    Argonian - Templar Healer
    Da Funk - Officer
  • joshjda
    joshjda
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    A small one yes but not nearly as big of one as they currently have. Plus if you are running a mage staff you should be running atleast 5 pieces of light giving you bonus crit and pen. Short handing dual wielding players should not be your goal that is not balancing anything it's trying to give yourself an edge.
  • Draconerus
    Draconerus
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    Not asking to short hand anyone, just asking for equality between all weapon/armor setups.
    Draconerus
    Argonian - Templar Healer
    Da Funk - Officer
  • Seido_Tensei_
    Seido_Tensei_
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    STEVIL wrote: »
    Draconerus wrote: »
    @lappas Why no specifically?

    @STEVIL There is no way to do a 5/5/2 without using a duel wield or shield/sword combo. Hence this is why I am asking for the option for 2h weapons to count as a 2 slots as well.

    sigh...

    one example of many...
    body
    two piece monster
    4 pc clever alchemist
    1 pc viper or any drop set

    jewels
    3 pc viper or any drop set

    weapons
    attack bar - greatsword of viper
    buff/util/other bar - greatsword of clever alche

    When on attack bar have 2pc monster, 5 pc viper and 4pc alche ready.

    When on back/buff bar - have 2 p monster, 4 p viper and 5pc clever

    Being a "clever" sort, when your potions come up, you swap to buff bar (as part of your sequence) and do buffs and drink potion which uses the clever 5pc.

    Swap back to main bar - and have fun... viper at 5pc, monsters at 2pc all 4pc of clever doing their thing and the 5pc bonus from clever still running for 15s.

    The key to this and quite a few other builds is - that clever 5pc bonus only comes up for trigger every 45s or so and runs on its own even when you swap bars for a good time (15s) which means you are getting the full benefit of it even using a 2h build.

    During that 45s of time between potioins that sets 5pc bonus is either running or useless regardless of which bar you are on so you are getting all the bonuses of the 5-5-2 sets PLUS the 2H weapon skill line.

    Have cake, eat it.

    This means 2H/bow/staff users should be looking at different set choices than DW if they want to optimize the "both 5pc bonuses going at once" thing.

    this is "basic set choice 101" or maybe "201"... once you graduate into maelstrom or master weapon sets ("301?") - it become irrelevant.

    having 2h weapons count set counts the same in spite of the obvious reasons not to and edges cooked into their make-up would just kick that whole "This means 2H/bow/staff users should be looking at different set choices than DW" toi the curb in the interest of more sameness.

    I say again...

    The journey to more diversity does not begin by asking the GPS to "find more sameness."
    (I think now this quote was from Lincoln or Twain - but could be wrong.)

    @STEVIL I get what your saying but this is flat out wrong.

    While one can potentially use a 5pc proc on their buff bar and switch back to a main bar, the issue is generally the low proc rate / limited up time of the back bar. You are correct in your example that such a person running clever alchemist back bar would have the same effectiveness as someone running 5/5/2 dual wield , the issue is that this build type only works with clever alchemist because the up time is not dependent on proc chance %

    No other back bar armor combination would provide the same utility as a dual wielding counterpart except clever alchemist.

    Briarheart? Low proc chance, duration and limited up time make the swap back to bow bar very tedious.
    Ravager / Veiled heritance? Only last 5 seconds, if you get cc'd after proc pretty much wastes it requiring you to stay on a buff bar longer than intended, making it not flexible enough for PVP

    None of the available combinations you can use with 2H /Bow even approach (Hundings / Automoton) or (Haulking Drugar / Spriggan) in terms of raw weapon damage / stats and up-time (100%).

    There are a ton of 5/5/2 armor combinations that would allow unique and effective 2h / bow builds, so I disagree that allowing 2H to count as a 2pc set bonus would lead to less build diversity. If anything... the change just opens up the available sets 2H builds can use, even if most people default to most proven combinations.

    I do agree with @Hurika that the change has other implications past set bonuses. Seems to me the only way this could be fair is if mats and upgrade materials was the same as using dual wield. Though to be fair.....you only need 1 gold weapon of the dual wield pair, as the off hand gold only ads a little bit of extra damage. Still warrants consideration though.


  • STEVIL
    STEVIL
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    No other back bar armor combination would provide the same utility as a dual wielding counterpart except clever alchemist.
    Really?

    When you fall below 33% Magicka, increase your Magicka Recovery by 1032 for 20 seconds. This effect can occur once every 1 minute....


    its called Lich and the quick swap in swap out with whatever buffs you wanted if any (not needed) when your magical hits less than 33% for over 10k magica gain over the next 20s with a 1min minimum. IIRC it is quite popular in some hvy drain builds... I believe it was popular with Molag Kena.

    But hey thats just another magica to back up the multi-functional Clever Alchemist. What about stamina?

    Lets try Witchman...
    When you use an Ultimate ability, you heal for 30 Health and you restore 30 Stamina per point of the Ultimate's cost.


    in this kind of stamina based build you slot an ulti you plan to use on the back bar and its up to you whether or not you want that to mean a big ulti for mega restores or a small ulti for quick turn-around.

    But when you need a burst restore/heal to stamina and health, cut to the back bar and drop the ulti and blammo... When i used it, i tended to slot a large ulti up-front and a smaller quick ulti in back - but again the need depends on the circumstance.

    All three of these have the one interesting thing in common oh wise one... guess what it is.... come on... no guesses... they work with no proc chance at all just they happen when you swap and so once their conditions are fulfilled.

    What was it you said before heading into discussing briarhart set which dont really get used all that much by DW?

    "this build type only works with clever alchemist because the up time is not dependent on proc chance %"

    So, hey at least part of your sentence was right...

    BTW i find Velied to be a great set, but not for swap-builds. Its made like so many other sets, to be going all the time to get the benefit out of it. You might as well be talking necropotence or Hundings if you see Veiled as a candidate for swap sets. Veiled is a great two-weapons/shield kind of set. it serves you really well IMX on that structure.

    The fact that it doesn't serve as well on swaps means... those planning to run swap sets dont use Veiled. They run another set...

    see see see? because they dont work the same in weapon sets mathing, you dont run the same set on two different weapon types.

    Which brings us to the tired (so very tired) "open up so many builds" crap... which really just boils down to "come on, just let us run the dw sets that get those high dps.

    letting everybody run the same builds doesn't lead to oh so many many more sets being run... it leads to many many more folks running the same fewer sets now that all the non-dw non snb no linger have to look for other build options and structures.

    if you want to generate "more different builds being played" you need to think about not asking for ZoS to help you "find diversity thru sameness" but to instead open up crafting to crated 4pc sets and 3pc sets so that there are more building blocks that also happen to work well, but differently, for non-two-weapons/shield builds.

    "The journey to diversity does not begin by asking google to find nearby sameness."
    Now i am sure that was Churchill who said that.

    And really, lets be honest, those DW high DPS builds... they often if not always use maelstrom weapons and... once you hit VMSA or even DSA... this weapons count set con is up.


    Proudly skooma free while talks-when-drunk is in mandatory public housing.
    YFMV Your Fun May Vary.

    First Law of Nerf-o-Dynamics
    "The good way I used to get good kills *with good skill* was good but the way others kill me now is bad."

  • Draconerus
    Draconerus
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    They said they were looking into this in a Morrowind discussion. Would love to know more.
    Draconerus
    Argonian - Templar Healer
    Da Funk - Officer
  • cpuScientist
    cpuScientist
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    This would be great for sure. But it would be a big buff to magic classes. No buff to stam, except slightly lowering the gap between two handers and dual wield. But dual wield would still be better so in real effective buff.

    If they did this they had better buff stam some more aswell.
  • Nerouyn
    Nerouyn
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    It's a crazy and stupid imbalance as it is. Just one of many in this game unfortunately.
  • kessik221
    kessik221
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    This would be great for sure. But it would be a big buff to magic classes. No buff to stam, except slightly lowering the gap between two handers and dual wield. But dual wield would still be better so in real effective buff.

    If they did this they had better buff stam some more aswell.

    I dont think it would affect magicka all that much other than to give 3/5 classes an option other than dw/destro. Dk is the only class that i can currently think of that would want destro/destro due to their affinity with fire.
  • olsborg
    olsborg
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    Agreed if its melee only, cause those destrostaff passives are pretty f strong.

    PC EU
    PvP only
  • Strider_Roshin
    Strider_Roshin
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    Is there a way to mute @STEVIL? It's annoying having to scroll through a wall of text whenever I want to read something constructive.
  • STEVIL
    STEVIL
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    Is there a way to mute @STEVIL? It's annoying having to scroll through a wall of text whenever I want to read something constructive.

    You have an ignore list you can use, so yep.

    Have you really been joined in these forums for almost two years without knowing that you have an ignore list or was this just a way to sidewise gripe about me?

    Proudly skooma free while talks-when-drunk is in mandatory public housing.
    YFMV Your Fun May Vary.

    First Law of Nerf-o-Dynamics
    "The good way I used to get good kills *with good skill* was good but the way others kill me now is bad."

  • Berenhir
    Berenhir
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    STEVIL wrote: »
    Is there a way to mute @STEVIL? It's annoying having to scroll through a wall of text whenever I want to read something constructive.

    You have an ignore list you can use, so yep.

    Have you really been joined in these forums for almost two years without knowing that you have an ignore list or was this just a way to sidewise gripe about me?

    I suppose it's both.
    PC EU - Ebonheart Pact - Gray Host - Death Recap -#zergfarming -
  • Strider_Roshin
    Strider_Roshin
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    STEVIL wrote: »
    Is there a way to mute @STEVIL? It's annoying having to scroll through a wall of text whenever I want to read something constructive.

    You have an ignore list you can use, so yep.

    Have you really been joined in these forums for almost two years without knowing that you have an ignore list or was this just a way to sidewise gripe about me?

    Actually I didn't know there was an ignore list. No one has really inspired me to use it lol. I don't have an issue with you disagreeing with me; several do. What I can't stand is your consistent wall of fluff as a response to everyone's statement/question. Don't take it personal though, I have very little patience for people that ramble in real life as well.
  • STEVIL
    STEVIL
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    STEVIL wrote: »
    Is there a way to mute @STEVIL? It's annoying having to scroll through a wall of text whenever I want to read something constructive.

    You have an ignore list you can use, so yep.

    Have you really been joined in these forums for almost two years without knowing that you have an ignore list or was this just a way to sidewise gripe about me?

    Actually I didn't know there was an ignore list. No one has really inspired me to use it lol. I don't have an issue with you disagreeing with me; several do. What I can't stand is your consistent wall of fluff as a response to everyone's statement/question. Don't take it personal though, I have very little patience for people that ramble in real life as well.

    your intolerance is not my problem.
    Proudly skooma free while talks-when-drunk is in mandatory public housing.
    YFMV Your Fun May Vary.

    First Law of Nerf-o-Dynamics
    "The good way I used to get good kills *with good skill* was good but the way others kill me now is bad."

  • Draconerus
    Draconerus
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    Let's stay on topic all :)
    Draconerus
    Argonian - Templar Healer
    Da Funk - Officer
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